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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
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America would be a better place
#13973642 - 02/16/11 01:05 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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if everyone took and passed a cultural anthropolgy class. I mean, even just learning to use Cultural relativism while looking at other cultures would solve SOOO MANY of our friggin problems.
people are always so ethnocentric, including myself for a long while.
Im a youngin so ya'll probably took this class a while ago
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: realfuzzhead]
#13973660 - 02/16/11 01:09 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
realfuzzhead said: if everyone took and passed a cultural anthropolgy class. I mean, even just learning to use Cultural relativism while looking at other cultures would solve SOOO MANY of our friggin problems.
people are always so ethnocentric, including myself for a long while.
Im a youngin so ya'll probably took this class a while ago
I totally agree, I think it's retarded how some people can't look outside the box and examine themselves and their culture from an unbiased perspective; people who are "culture sheep" are fags IMO. 
Cultural anthropology reveals how crazy, stupid, & weird humans are IMO.  
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Choix Sinaloa
Mario Kart Racer


Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 992
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Poid]
#13973723 - 02/16/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Pm
-------------------- thingy magigy
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JesusGoneRogue


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: realfuzzhead]
#13973740 - 02/16/11 01:33 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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very good post fuzzhead. i like to draw cubes and write "think outside the cube" nex to them. when we remove ourselves from bias, we can analyze are problems with a more keen eye.
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noticeofeviction
Roller


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 2,391
Loc: 818
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: realfuzzhead]
#13973755 - 02/16/11 01:37 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
realfuzzhead said: if everyone took and passed a cultural anthropolgy class. I mean, even just learning to use Cultural relativism while looking at other cultures would solve SOOO MANY of our friggin problems.
people are always so ethnocentric, including myself for a long while.
Im a youngin so ya'll probably took this class a while ago
On the topic of cultural relativism, some basic sociology classes would go a long way too.
Shit, we just need to smarten up in general! C'mon fellas.
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ifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO
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if everyone understood how fucking magnets worked.
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: ifoundwaldo]
#13973767 - 02/16/11 01:39 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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or why the rent is so damn high!
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Royksopp
I Want Cocaine



Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 178
Loc: California!
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: realfuzzhead]
#13973830 - 02/16/11 01:57 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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because its california!
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~big dicks in your ass is bad for your health~
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Royksopp]
#13973842 - 02/16/11 01:59 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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socal and sanfran at least. Chico's cheap, humboldts pretty cheap, anywhere inbetween those two is VERY cheap. (besides popular mountain resort towns etc.)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: realfuzzhead] 2
#13973857 - 02/16/11 02:02 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
realfuzzhead said: if everyone took and passed a cultural anthropolgy class. I mean, even just learning to use Cultural relativism while looking at other cultures would solve SOOO MANY of our friggin problems.
people are always so ethnocentric, including myself for a long while.
Im a youngin so ya'll probably took this class a while ago
Cultural relativism can be as dangerous as ethnocentrism if carried too far. How can a cultural relativist address things like female genital mutilation, or honor killings? They just have to throw their hands up and be like "Well, it's their culture." I say this as someone who majored in both sociology and anthropology.
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Silversoul]
#13973881 - 02/16/11 02:08 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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I do understand that, im currently taking the class and is was pointed out that some enthocentrism is critical for the fabric of society to stay in touch, otherwise you get.. hmm. Amobi? fuck im not near my book right now. but basically people loose touch with thier culture and depression sets in, sort of how the indian suicide and alcoholism rates have skyrocketed since white man came in?
shoulda broken that up a little bit, but im trying to type and get high at the same time  
edit: didnt read your whole post, cool cool taking those majors, whats your profession if you do not mind me asking ?
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Silversoul]
#13973941 - 02/16/11 02:19 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
realfuzzhead said: if everyone took and passed a cultural anthropolgy class. I mean, even just learning to use Cultural relativism while looking at other cultures would solve SOOO MANY of our friggin problems.
people are always so ethnocentric, including myself for a long while.
Im a youngin so ya'll probably took this class a while ago
Cultural relativism can be as dangerous as ethnocentrism if carried too far. How can a cultural relativist address things like female genital mutilation, or honor killings? They just have to throw their hands up and be like "Well, it's their culture." I say this as someone who majored in both sociology and anthropology.
It's not about being a "Cultural relativist" Its about understanding that all cultures develop their own 'morals' or lack of 'morals'...
Its a philosophy that is much deeper than sociology...
The American thinks cows are nothing more than a food source and a simple creature...While the Hindu sees it as a symbol of what is pure among nature and even what is divine...
Cultural relativism is not "carried too far" It's either understood,or misunderstood by bias people that cannot see past their own cultural paradigm...
Relativism is one of the most important ideas that we can understand our reality with...Its not about going to a college class, Its about being fucking honest with yourself and understanding humanity and even life on earth as whole...
Edited by TeamAmerica (02/16/11 02:20 PM)
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: ifoundwaldo]
#13973955 - 02/16/11 02:24 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
ifoundwaldo said: if everyone understood how fucking magnets worked.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: TeamAmerica] 1
#13973993 - 02/16/11 02:32 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
TeamAmerica said: It's not about being a "Cultural relativist" Its about understanding that all cultures develop their own 'morals' or lack of 'morals'...
Of course, but taking a culture's morals as a whole blinds one to the moral distinctions that exist within a society. If, for example, we were to accept female genital mutilation due to the fact that it's part of people's culture, we would then have to ignore the people within those cultures who are calling for an end to the practice. Adopting a stance of pure cultural relativism also leaves out the dignity of the individual. If a culture believes in human sacrifice, what are we to say to the people they mean to sacrifice? It also ignores the fact that cultures evolve. We can go back to a time in our own culture when disease was blamed on witches, and innocent women were burned at the stake as a result. And yet we evolved out of that mindset. Relativism left to its own devices leads to a flattening of the moral sphere, such that no ethical distinctions can be made at all. Relativism needs to incorporate a developmental perspective that values both the individual and the collective, or else it paralyzes us in the face of moral dilemmas.
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Silversoul]
#13974111 - 02/16/11 03:02 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
TeamAmerica said: It's not about being a "Cultural relativist" Its about understanding that all cultures develop their own 'morals' or lack of 'morals'...
Of course, but taking a culture's morals as a whole blinds one to the moral distinctions that exist within a society. If, for example, we were to accept female genital mutilation due to the fact that it's part of people's culture, we would then have to ignore the people within those cultures who are calling for an end to the practice. Adopting a stance of pure cultural relativism also leaves out the dignity of the individual. If a culture believes in human sacrifice, what are we to say to the people they mean to sacrifice? It also ignores the fact that cultures evolve. We can go back to a time in our own culture when disease was blamed on witches, and innocent women were burned at the stake as a result. And yet we evolved out of that mindset. If you can call it that Relativism left to its own devices leads to a flattening of the moral sphere, such that no ethical distinctions can be made at all. Relativism needs to incorporate a developmental perspective that values both the individual and the collective, or else it paralyzes us in the face of moral dilemmas.
Again relativism isn't a religion it's simply accurately viewing other cultures...
You can't just bring up apparent negatives in a culture like Human sacrifice and female genital mutilation without understanding its place in that "Moral" structure of their culture...Cultural relativism means to understand even the most negative aspects without tabooing them as you seem to be...
There are so many other issues that cultural relativism addresses...You cant just say...'American culture is superior because some isolated tribe in Africa likes to alter their flesh...
And as far as human sacrifice goes...
You are the Spaniard Roman in the jungles of South America while you stumble across the Aztec/post Mayan civilization, Ofcourse you come from the land of white man/romans that thinks he is the light of the world and "Moraly" superior, you even have your own religion that you can arrogantly believe you are a 'sword for God' per say...You think that you are in some way more pure, but indeed you are the opposite, your filthiness and disease destroy entire native populations...
You see the natives and their blood rituals...Yet because of your CULTURAL POINT OF VIEW/MORAL SUPERIORITY COMPLEX you slaughter the entire race and end their civilization and destroy its codexes...This in itself is far worse than a human sacrifice...Indeed the people that claim Moral Superiority are usually the barbarians and the most dangerous and least intelligent...
And thus we come across the philosophies of Cultural Relativism and perhaps even the 'Noble Savage'
Edited by TeamAmerica (02/16/11 03:07 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: TeamAmerica] 1
#13974150 - 02/16/11 03:13 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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TeamAmerica said: Again relativism isnt a religion its simply accurately viewing other cultures...
No it is not. There is a difference between viewing a culture and its practices and equivocal about all its practices.
Quote:
You can't just bring up apparent negatives in a culture like Human sacrifice and female genital mutilation without understanding its place in that "Moral" structure of their culture...Cultural relativism means to understand even the most negative aspects without tabooing them as you seem to be...
Of course you need to understand the cultural background behind these practices. But you can't stop there and just give it a pass. That's what cultural relativism does. Understanding the cultural background can actually help in reforming aspects of a culture that are harmful to other people.
Quote:
There are so many other issues that cultural relativism addresses...You cant just say...'American culture is superior because some isolated tribe in Africa likes to alter their flesh...
There are many things wrong with American culture, and I don't have to be a foreigner to notice that. Just as many people from other cultures are able to identify problems in their own culture.
Quote:
And as far as human sacrifice goes...
You are the Spaniard Roman in the jungles of South America while you stumble across the Aztec/post Mayan civilization, Ofcourse you come from the land of white man/romans that thinks he is the light of the world and "Moraly" superior, you even have your own religion that you can arrogantly believe you are a 'sword for God' per say...You think that you are in some way more pure, but indeed you are the opposite, your filthiness and disease destroy entire native populations...
You see the natives and their blood rituals...Yet because of your CULTURAL POINT OF VIEW/MORAL SUPERIORITY COMPLEX you slaughter the entire race and end their civilization and destroy its codexes...This in itself is far worse than a human sacrifice...Indeed the people that claim Moral Superiority are usually the barbarians and the most dangerous and least intelligent...
And thus we come across the philosophies of Cultural Relativism and perhaps even the 'Noble Savage'
Your example amounts to nothing. Obviously it was wrong of Europeans to slaughter these civilizations as it was for them to slaughter those victims of human sacrifice. To be consistent as a relativist is to deny that there's anything wrong with either action. Of course, much of what passes for cultural relativism really amounts to hating one's own culture.
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Silversoul]
#13974228 - 02/16/11 03:29 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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If you think my example amounts to nothing then you should probably re read it...
I AM saying that Spaniards were surprisingly more negative than the Aztecs/mayans when most people view the natives as negative
The mayans were ancient beyond the Spaniard/Roman's brain and eyes...They were not ready for what they saw...
AND because of that they performed a surprisingly more brutal act with no positive intent beyond that...
It is actually a perfect example of why Cultural relativism...is well...Relevant 
Again you do not understand because you are saying that people are "Cultural relativists" No...People simply UNDERSTAND other cultures THROUGH that philosophy...To call people "Cultural Relativists" is to miss the point...
THROUGH cultural relativism one may come to hate a corrupt racist culture that fails to understand Relativism in the first place...
Edited by TeamAmerica (02/16/11 03:32 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: TeamAmerica] 1
#13974304 - 02/16/11 03:42 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
TeamAmerica said: If you think my example amounts to nothing then you should probably re read it...
I AM saying that Spaniards were surprisingly more negative than the Aztecs/mayans
The mayans were ancient beyond the Spaniard/Roman's brain and eyes...They were not ready for what they saw...
AND because of that they performed a surprisingly more brutal act with no positive intent beyond that...
It is actually a perfect example of why Cultural relativism...is well...Relevant 
Again you do not understand because you are saying that people are "Cultural relativists" No...People simply UNDERSTAND other cultures THROUGH that philosophy...To call people "Cultural Relativists" is to miss the point...
No, you're missing the point. The Spaniards' inability to see their own atrocities does not necessitate equivocating between their culture and the Aztec culture. It simply means that one must have some ability to reflect on one's own culture. Cultural relativism can certainly help in coming to that position, but if you don't grow beyond that, then you're just stuck in a position of moral nihilism. The mature position is not "my culture is better" or "their culture is better" or "they have their culture, I have mine." To actually get somewhere meaningful, you have to ask "What can our cultures learn from one another?" And that is not a new phenomenon, BTW. Cultural syncretism is as old as civilization itself. There are tribes in New Guinea that walk around half-naked and live in grass huts, yet have seen most of the top Hollywood blockbusters that have come out in recent years. I think this is great. They've decided which aspects of their culture they want to hold onto and which Western influences they enjoy. When you step beyond cultural relativism into cultural syncretism, then real progress is made.
Quote:
THROUGH cultural relativism one may come to hate a corrupt racist culture that fails to understand Relativism in the first place...
The idea that you would want to "hate" a culture tells me that you don't understand the first thing about cultural relativism. Because if you're learning about other cultures, what you'll find is that just about every culture is ethnocentric.
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 2,954
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: Silversoul]
#13974360 - 02/16/11 03:54 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
TeamAmerica said: If you think my example amounts to nothing then you should probably re read it...
I AM saying that Spaniards were surprisingly more negative than the Aztecs/mayans
The mayans were ancient beyond the Spaniard/Roman's brain and eyes...They were not ready for what they saw...
AND because of that they performed a surprisingly more brutal act with no positive intent beyond that...
It is actually a perfect example of why Cultural relativism...is well...Relevant 
Again you do not understand because you are saying that people are "Cultural relativists" No...People simply UNDERSTAND other cultures THROUGH that philosophy...To call people "Cultural Relativists" is to miss the point...
No, you're missing the point. The Spaniards' inability to see their own atrocities does not necessitate equivocating between their culture and the Aztec culture. It simply means that one must have some ability to reflect on one's own culture. Cultural relativism can certainly help in coming to that position, but if you don't grow beyond that, then you're just stuck in a position of moral nihilism. The mature position is not "my culture is better" or "their culture is better" or "they have their culture, I have mine." To actually get somewhere meaningful, you have to ask "What can our cultures learn from one another?" And that is not a new phenomenon, BTW. Cultural syncretism is as old as civilization itself. There are tribes in New Guinea that walk around half-naked and live in grass huts, yet have seen most of the top Hollywood blockbusters that have come out in recent years. I think this is great. They've decided which aspects of their culture they want to hold onto and which Western influences they enjoy. When you step beyond cultural relativism into cultural syncretism, then real progress is made.
Quote:
THROUGH cultural relativism one may come to hate a corrupt racist culture that fails to understand Relativism in the first place...
The idea that you would want to "hate" a culture tells me that you don't understand the first thing about cultural relativism. Because if you're learning about other cultures, what you'll find is that just about every culture is ethnocentric.
No no...It is THROUGH Cultural relativism that I can see the arrogance and blindness of other cultures, Some have more of this attribute than others...Because you can compare cultures, and all are "Ethnocentric" because all peoples have their prides...
But again you were trying to play the negative game with African and natives tribes by singling out Human sacrifice and genital manipulation, Yet when I point out the Negativity of our own culture and its ancestors you get butthurt?
Dont accuse me of not understanding other Cultures accurately and fairly...Which is Cultural relativism...
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America would be a better place [Re: TeamAmerica] 1
#13974403 - 02/16/11 04:03 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
TeamAmerica said: No no...It is THROUGH Cultural relativism that I can see the arrogance and blindness of other cultures, Some have more of this attribute than others...Because you can compare cultures, and all are "Ethnocentric" because all peoples have their prides...
You said "THROUGH cultural relativism one may come to hate a corrupt racist culture that fails to understand Relativism in the first place..."(emphasis mine). Applying this standard consistently, it would then be incumbent upon you to hate every culture in existence.
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But again you were trying to play the negative game with African and natives tribes by singling out Human sacrifice and genital manipulation, Yet when I point out the Negativity of our own culture and its ancestors you get butthurt?
No one's getting butthurt here but you. As the descendant of a prominent, slave-owning family from Georgia, I have plenty of negativity about my ancestors already. I am in no way defending my own culture. I am talking about the shortcomings of cultural relativism.
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Dont accuse me of not understanding other Cultures accurately and fairly...Which is Cultural relativism...
Where did I accuse you of this?
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