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antiseptic71
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Registered: 02/15/11
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Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard
#13972299 - 02/16/11 06:21 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hello,
This is just a simple question born out of laziness really.
I understand I would be much better off doing the traditional 'inoculate sterilised spawn jars' methods with Psi. Azures and Cyans but I have a possible shortcut idea.
Has anyone tried boiling cardboard, keeping it some kind of tub (not thoroughly covered) and simply innoculating with spore solution?
What are the chances of this successfully germinating and colonising without a major contamination problem?
I have read in several posts that cardboard is fairly resilient to contams yet the strains I mentioned love the stuff.
I only ask because I dont have a pressure cooker and could save myself a few quid if I could get some cardboard colonised and then use a method like the one detailed in the Azurescens Society webpage.
Cheers Guys
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ProfessorPinHead
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: antiseptic71]
#13972320 - 02/16/11 06:32 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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You can't use cardboard in that manner. It won't work. You'll need to use the butt of an Azure if you want to make cardboard cultures with it. You'll have a hard time germinating spores like that.
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
#13972326 - 02/16/11 06:36 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's what I thought, but I hadn't tried it.
It wouldn't cost much to order a few premade petri dishes, germinate on that, then expand the myc on whatever substrate you wanted.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
#13972338 - 02/16/11 06:40 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, no chance of germinating spores on cardboard. You may try searching "agar substitute", rice flour in small jars essentially. Or you can hydrate the cardboard in honey water to increase chances of germination. You'll have to be very careful and as sterile as possible with both these methods, contams love them.
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German Kahuna
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
#13972342 - 02/16/11 06:44 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tangich said: Yeah, no chance of germinating spores on cardboard.
Says who?
Actually, yes it will work. Any medium that isn't completely free of nutrients should cause viable spores of these species to germinate, but cardboard is especially well suited, because it is made from wood pulp and full of lignin. You should read this thread over in the Hunting & Identification forum: A few notes on spraying spores to start patches We are pondering some interesting ideas there regarding the woodloving species you mentioned.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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ProfessorPinHead
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: German Kahuna]
#13972359 - 02/16/11 06:52 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Doc_T ^^^^^ Tangich ^^^^^^  Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Quote:
Actually, yes it will work. Any medium that isn't completely free of nutrients should cause viable spores of these species to germinate, but cardboard is especially well suited, because it is made from wood pulp and full of lignin. You should read this thread over in the Hunting & Identification forum: A few notes on spraying spores to start patches We are pondering some interesting ideas there regarding the woodloving species you mentioned.
I was just operating under the assumption that the OP is relatively inexperienced. I know I could get spores to germinate on cardboard with my experience level but a noob might have a harder time pulling this one off.
Plus, Why can't we just throw the spores on Agar again? 
I highly agree in the cardboard being ideal. Azure myc is some seriously rhizomorphic shit! 
Its just the sterile technique that worries me here. ........
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
#13972380 - 02/16/11 07:03 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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From experience I know that spores will have great trouble germinating on medium low in nutrients. Either mold or mushroom. Eventually some will germinate, but it's far from ideal. Coir and cardboard come to mind here... Soaking cardboard in nutrients, like honey, dextrose or whatever would help a lot with germination. They will love cardboard once they germinate tough, no question.
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German Kahuna
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
#13972388 - 02/16/11 07:05 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Apparently the OP doesn't even have a PC, but spores. I am and always have been an advocate of sterile procedure, but in this case, with these species, if you don't have the means to work under lab conditions, you are not automatically out of luck. Because they will a) not only germinate on cardboard but actually like that medium a lot and b) you can set the cardboard outside and keep it moist where the mycelium will colonize the cardboard and mold and other contaminants are unlikely to invade.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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German Kahuna
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: Tangich]
#13972403 - 02/16/11 07:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, adding a drop of honey would help, but it would also increase the chance of contams invading.
What I'd do is the following: bring some water to a boil and add a few drops of honey. Then throw some cardboard disks in the water and hydrate them. Take out of the pot and drop some spores on the disks. As soon as I'd see growth I'd transfer the cardboard with the mycelium outside (provided temps are above 10°C) and add more hydrated cardboard.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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ProfessorPinHead
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: German Kahuna]
#13972410 - 02/16/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
German Kahuna said: Apparently the OP doesn't even have a PC, but spores. I am and always have been an advocate of sterile procedure, but in this case, with these species, if you don't have the means to work under lab conditions, you are not automatically out of luck. Because they will a) not only germinate on cardboard but actually like that medium a lot and b) you can set the cardboard outside and keep it moist where the mycelium will colonize the cardboard and mold and other contaminants are unlikely to invade.
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antiseptic71
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: German Kahuna]
#13972415 - 02/16/11 07:20 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thanks for the fast replies guys. We have got the full spectrum of opinion here.
Let me add some more information here. I guess I am relatively inexperienced. I 'dreamt' that I did successfully do the PF tek with some cubes several years ago. In another 'dream' I successfully made and fruited a small outdoor azures patch but I was fortunate enough to start with some colonized chips that time and I basically spawned these straight into the beds outside. Was a peice of cake really. However that was years ago, the patch is mosr likely dead now and I can no longer get to it to obtain spawn or check anymore anyway.
I appreciate what you are saying and accept I would be better advised to use sterile conditions and go the traditional route (spawn jars, probably WBS or another grain). However I no longer have any of the kit, PC, home made glove box, jars or substrates etc so I was just trying to find out if I can bypass all this and just get something colonized fast and do as I 'dreamt' I did many years ago.
The idea was basically to not even worry about sterility and just rely on cardboards resistance to contams and affinity for azures spores. But perhaps I am being too optimistic in hoping the azures would germinate at all on cardboard.
Would I have a reasonable chance of germination if I used say 5cc of solution in 2 different cardboard containers?
Failing that I guess I could try to forego the PC and just use the old fashioned PF tek (i.e. boiling the jars for a good hour or hour and a half).
Any suggestions? Or do you need any more information?
Cheers again
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Doc_T
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: antiseptic71]
#13972429 - 02/16/11 07:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Use just a few drops of spores on each piece of cardboard, less is more in this case.
It's completely possible to do. Give it a try.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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ProfessorPinHead
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: Doc_T]
#13972491 - 02/16/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yea, I though you were newer than that.
In that case just run a ton of them.
Do 10-20 little pieces of cardboard and you will be sure to get at least on to take. Then if there is any contamination in there with it.... I suppose you could just transfer it to anther piece and then expand it from there->. That is the best I can think of.....
Good luck!
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German Kahuna
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: antiseptic71]
#13972497 - 02/16/11 07:53 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you don't trust the straight to cardboard routine and have everything for making PF cakes, just make a few and inoculate them with some azure/cyan spores and when they're fully colonized crumble to several layers of hydrated cardboard in a box or bowl outside. Once that is more or less colonized, spawn to your wood chip beds.
-------------------- "Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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antiseptic71
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: German Kahuna]
#13972519 - 02/16/11 08:06 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Thank you all for your replies. I will do one of the two, straight to cardboard or PF cakes, see how I feel and make a decision.
Just one more question regarding the straight to cardboard technique. What do you think would be the best way to contain the cardboard when i'm waiting for germination?
Small freshly washed tubs with a hole for air exchange? Or... Tightly screwed jars with holes and filter discs/material plugged into the lids?
If I were to enrich the cardboard with honey water would this make a difference to how I should contain the colonising cardboard?
And finally am I right in thinking it would be best to keep the cardboard jars/tubs indoors at room temp until I see some germination and colonization?
Thanks again
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ProfessorPinHead
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: antiseptic71]
#13972559 - 02/16/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think the PF cake route sounds rather interesting .
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Biffzilla
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Re: Chances of germinating Azures or Cyans on cardboard [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
#15806907 - 02/14/12 04:29 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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I listened to german kahuna's advice and tried innoculating directly to cardboard. It didn't work a damn. I was using azures...
I made pine cone water LC instead and it colonized little bits floating in it. (The pine coans soaked in the water for 2 days.).
I've inoculated cardboard with the pinecone water lc... results will be posted.
-------------------- =================================================================== - Show me the honey - ===================================================================
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