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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
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FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC
    #13972219 - 02/16/11 05:31 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

what a bunch of douche nozzles.

nope, no bias here...

someone doesn't want ron paul to be seen in a favorable light.




in b4 zappa rant


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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OfflineGrav
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Yrat]
    #13972305 - 02/16/11 06:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yea it's fake news.  same with CNN, etc.  they're not 'biased', they're frauds. the sad thing is, many will believe this is an isolated event.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Grav]
    #13973450 - 02/16/11 12:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It's pretty easy to see that the media is corrupted.


Just look at all the environmental issues that they leave out of their broadcasts.


If people knew about the environmental issues we face with deforestation, fossil water, fossil fuels, food system instability, food system control(monsanto), untested and unverified chemical releases, it would be far more obvious to the skeptics.

However, that being said, it is just their government given right. They are after all, a corporation which as made law by the supreme court, has the right to freedom expression and the capacity to distort, hide, scapegoat and flat leave pertinent facts out of their programming.

Still my problems with the Iranian regime, as well and the chinese regime, stem out of their lack of sovreign rule and their authoritatve stances that can be easily verified in their constitutions, etc.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13973608 - 02/16/11 12:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
It's pretty easy to see that the media is corrupted.


Just look at all the environmental issues that they leave out of their broadcasts.


If people knew about the environmental issues we face with deforestation, fossil water, fossil fuels, food system instability, food system control(monsanto), untested and unverified chemical releases, it would be far more obvious to the skeptics.

However, that being said, it is just their government given right. They are after all, a corporation which as made law by the supreme court, has the right to freedom expression and the capacity to distort, hide, scapegoat and flat leave pertinent facts out of their programming.

Still my problems with the Iranian regime, as well and the chinese regime, stem out of their lack of sovreign rule and their authoritatve stances that can be easily verified in their constitutions, etc.



Quoted.  For posterity.  Fossil water?


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13974551 - 02/16/11 04:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I read the title:
FOX news deceptively edits video from (sounds normal) 2011 CPAC (WHAT?!?!?!?:confused:)

This reminds me of an article I recently read about a recent fox news insider who came out and said that they just lie.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201102100007
http://www.truth-out.org/fox-news-insider-stuff-just-made-up67706
I haven't found the original media source this guy went to, but to quote the insider and bring this back to the OP topic.
Quote:

“For the first few years it was let’s take the conservative take on things. And then after a few years it evolved into, well it’s not just the conservative take on things, we’re going to take the Republican take on things which is not necessarily in lock step with the conservative point of view.

“And then two, three, five years into that it was, we’re taking the Bush line on things, which was different than the GOP. We were a Stalin-esque mouthpiece.  It was just what Bush says goes on our channel. And by that point it was just totally dangerous.  Hopefully most people understand how dangerous it is for a media outfit to be a straight, unfiltered mouthpiece for an unchecked president.”



I think what we see here is the continuity of that narrative, some of the things that make RP popular are in opposition to a lot of the bush era policies that FOX news has gotten staunchly behind. So it's no surprise that they are treating him like a political opponent. It is also possible that Fox news is looking at RP as a person who will drift the republicans from the direction that Fox would prefer them to be heading. I'm not sure what RP says other than his stance on militarism that could cause Fox to give him (what used to be) the liberal treatment.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13974867 - 02/16/11 05:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What you see there is Media Matters playing funny.  Name the source.  Hell, they didn't even identify what was supposedly made up.  Which seems to me a rather suspicious case of neglect.  Media Matters is a joke.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13979148 - 02/17/11 02:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:


This reminds me of an article I recently read about a recent fox news insider who came out and said that they just lie.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201102100007

I haven't found the original media source this guy went to, but to quote the insider and bring this back to the OP topic.
Quote:

“For the first few years it was let’s take the conservative take on things. And then after a few years it evolved into, well it’s not just the conservative take on things, we’re going to take the Republican take on things which is not necessarily in lock step with the conservative point of view.

“And then two, three, five years into that it was, we’re taking the Bush line on things, which was different than the GOP. We were a Stalin-esque mouthpiece.  It was just what Bush says goes on our channel. And by that point it was just totally dangerous.  Hopefully most people understand how dangerous it is for a media outfit to be a straight, unfiltered mouthpiece for an unchecked president.”








Greg Gutfeld unearths a MediaMatters insider

http://www.breitbart.tv/greg-gutfelds-exclusive-interview-with-media-matters/

Poor bastard.


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OfflineNova

Registered: 10/16/02
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Yrat]
    #13980445 - 02/17/11 06:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This really angered me and made me even sadder about the state of politics in the US. I don't affiliate with 'sides', repub and dems have both lost their way. I'm gonna hold back from ranting on that and stay on topic though.

With the bleak future that either democrat or republican potential leaders display, I have always been excited for Ron Paul. Whether or not people payed more attentional to him was okay by me, I figured if his views resonanted with the people that he would rise up on people's radars.

So it just sickens me that a political entertainment channel (a by-product of our joke of a political atmosphere, fox and msnbc being the big ones for each side) would do something like this.

This shows media perhaps at its worst. Its one thing to point fingers and bad mouth the other side but to  tarnish ones image on national TV for the sake of political interests is disgusting.

Say what you will about fox but to me this shows that their interest isnt in what is best for the country. The vote shows that republicans think Paul is the best choice. Fox wants you to think he's a joke.

Disgusting.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13982685 - 02/18/11 12:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
It's pretty easy to see that the media is corrupted.


Just look at all the environmental issues that they leave out of their broadcasts.


If people knew about the environmental issues we face with deforestation, fossil water, fossil fuels, food system instability, food system control(monsanto), untested and unverified chemical releases, it would be far more obvious to the skeptics.

However, that being said, it is just their government given right. They are after all, a corporation which as made law by the supreme court, has the right to freedom expression and the capacity to distort, hide, scapegoat and flat leave pertinent facts out of their programming.

Still my problems with the Iranian regime, as well and the chinese regime, stem out of their lack of sovreign rule and their authoritatve stances that can be easily verified in their constitutions, etc.



Quoted.  For posterity.  Fossil water?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_water

Fossil water or paleowater is groundwater that has remained sealed in an aquifer for a long period of time. Water can rest underground in "fossil aquifers" for thousands or even millions of years. When changes in the surrounding geology seal the aquifer off from further replenishing from precipitation, the water becomes trapped within, and is known as fossil water.

The Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System is among the most notable of fossil water reserves. Fossil aquifers also exist in the Sahara, the Kalahari, and the Great Artesian Basin. A further potential store of ancient water is Lake Vostok, a subglacial lake in Antarctica.

Fossil water is a non-renewable resource.[1] Whereas most aquifers are naturally replenished by infiltration of water from precipitation, fossil aquifers get very little recharge.[2] The extraction of water from such non-replenishing groundwater reserves (known as low safe-yield reserves) is known in hydrology as "water mining".[3] If water is pumped from a well at a withdrawal rate that exceeds the natural recharge rate (which is very low or zero for a fossil aquifer), the water table drops, forming a depression in the water levels around the well.[2] Water mining has been blamed for contributing to rising sea levels.[4]


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Yrat]
    #13983509 - 02/18/11 08:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Now you know how it felt to see Howard Dean gleefully trashed with a doctored tape by the "liberal media".

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13983625 - 02/18/11 09:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Enviro dingbats sure do come up with a buncha shit, don't they?  Why would anybody give a shit about losing fossil water?  If anything it would be a good thing to deplete it.  Gets more water in the cycle.  Did you know that water isn't used?  It's true.  100% of it just passes through and falls back as rain again.  100%


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13983683 - 02/18/11 09:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

:facepalm:


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Heffy]
    #13983721 - 02/18/11 09:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah?  What's that?  Your pool?  Guess what happens to 100% of the water in it?  It evaporates and falls back as clean rain.  Amazing.  Water does not get used up.  It may become polluted but eventually 100% of it evaporates and falls back as clean rain.  Even if we didn't do one single thing to clean it.
Quote:



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OfflineHeffy
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Heffy]
    #13983782 - 02/18/11 10:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Seriously?

Obvious ignorance is obvious.

Acid rain.:facepalm:
You're welcome to drink a glass if you don't believe me.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Heffy]
    #13983792 - 02/18/11 10:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Acid rain has nothing to do with what was in the water when it evaporated, child.  Did you take one single chemistry class?  And that pond with a pipe into it?  Are you telling me that's rainfall?:facepalm:


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13983821 - 02/18/11 10:16 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Never said it did. Above pic is from the Alberta tar sands, where the tailing pools are proving nearly impossible to process back into usable water.


Quoted for posterity.
Quote:

Water does not get used up.  It may become polluted but eventually 100% of it evaporates and falls back as clean rain.  Even if we didn't do one single thing to clean it.




This statement is obviously wrong. Acid rain is not falling back to earth as "clean rain".

Eat your hat now.


--------------------
I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Heffy]
    #13983835 - 02/18/11 10:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Never said it did. Above pic is from the Alberta tar sands, where the tailing pools are proving nearly impossible to process back into usable water.


Quoted for posterity.
Quote:

Water does not get used up.  It may become polluted but eventually 100% of it evaporates and falls back as clean rain.  Even if we didn't do one single thing to clean it.




This statement is obviously wrong. Acid rain is not falling back to earth as "clean rain".

Eat your hat now.


:rofl2:
Acid rain is a function of air pollution

Water does not get used up.  Every fucking drop of it evaporates and is recirculated.  We don't use up water.  We rent it.  Briefly.

And by the way, acid rain is barely acidic and safe to drink. 


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OfflineTri High
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13983846 - 02/18/11 10:26 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Chemicals in water evaporate, just like water does, zappa.

I think the proper term may be 'volatilize' but I could be incorrect.  It's some fancy term. 

But the shit in polluted waters have the ability to get into the air, just like water does.

And if not in the air, the stuff flushes with water into the rivers and streams and fuck up the liveability of the water for aquatic animals and the terrestrial animals that drink out of them. 

You're no scientist so don't pretend to be.


--------------------
you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13984280 - 02/18/11 12:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Enviro dingbats sure do come up with a buncha shit, don't they?  Why would anybody give a shit about losing fossil water?  If anything it would be a good thing to deplete it.  Gets more water in the cycle.  Did you know that water isn't used?  It's true.  100% of it just passes through and falls back as rain again.  100%




Here, lets try this again.

Fossil water or paleowater is groundwater that has remained sealed in an aquifer for a long period of time. Water can rest underground in "fossil aquifers" for thousands or even millions of years. When changes in the surrounding geology seal the aquifer off from further replenishing from precipitation, the water becomes trapped within, and is known as fossil water.

The Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System is among the most notable of fossil water reserves. Fossil aquifers also exist in the Sahara, the Kalahari, and the Great Artesian Basin. A further potential store of ancient water is Lake Vostok, a subglacial lake in Antarctica.

Fossil water is a non-renewable resource.[1] Whereas most aquifers are naturally replenished by infiltration of water from precipitation, fossil aquifers get very little recharge.[2] The extraction of water from such non-replenishing groundwater reserves (known as low safe-yield reserves) is known in hydrology as "water mining".[3] If water is pumped from a well at a withdrawal rate that exceeds the natural recharge rate (which is very low or zero for a fossil aquifer), the water table drops, forming a depression in the water levels around the well.[2] Water mining has been blamed for contributing to rising sea levels.[4]


:facepalm:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13984349 - 02/18/11 12:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Let's try this again.  So what?  It never fucking ends.  If it was fossil water that just means it had been isolated from the normal water cycle of evaporation/precipitation.  Sequestered.  Buried.  Hidden.  Untouched.  If it becomes part of the system that is a good thing.  Or not, actually.  It is a "no" thing.  Fossil water does not become "notwater".  It's still fucking water.  It still exists.  Tap it and you don't have fossil water anymore you have water.  It isn't less water.  If it had been of any use it wouldn't have become fossil water.

Do you really think that it is important to preserve "fossil water"?  If so, why?  So we can think about water that is invisible?  Enviroweenies.  :facepalm:

What a complete jerkoff concept.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Tri High]
    #13984377 - 02/18/11 12:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Tri High said:
Chemicals in water evaporate, just like water does, zappa.




Yeah, so, what does that have to do with "fossil water" or the fact that they evaporate separately?
Quote:



I think the proper term may be 'volatilize' but I could be incorrect.  It's some fancy term.


:facepalm:
Quote:

 

But the shit in polluted waters have the ability to get into the air, just like water does.




Some of it.  What does that have to do with fossil water?  Or with the fact that the water that falls as rain is clean?
Quote:



And if not in the air, the stuff flushes with water into the rivers and streams and fuck up the liveability of the water for aquatic animals and the terrestrial animals that drink out of them.




:facepalm:  Yes and it flows into the ocean where it becomes salt water.  The it evaporates and falls as fresh water.  What does that have to do with "fossil water"?
Quote:

 

You're no scientist so don't pretend to be.




I'll put my studies up against 95% of the population.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13984601 - 02/18/11 01:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Do you know how to read?


imbecils.


:facepalm:


it doesn't become a part of the water cycle, as it cannot be recharged at a rate would coincide with the rate of consumption, thereby making it a non-renewable resource!

An example; The ogalla aquifer feeds one of Americas most agriculturally productive zones. it is highly relevant, unless your an imbecil and cow shit for breakfast.

it is the largest aquifer in north america, including all expansive Canadian aquifers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#Groundwater_recharge

Change in groundwater storage
The USGS estimated that total water storage was about 2,925 million acre feet (3,608 km³) in 2005. This is a decline of about 253 million acre feet (312 km³) (or 9%) since substantial ground-water irrigation development began, in the 1950s.[5]
Water conservation practices (terracing and crop rotation), more efficient irrigation methods (center pivot and drip), and simply reduced area under irrigation have helped to slow depletion of the aquifer, but levels are generally still dropping. See the figure above for an illustration of the places where large drops in water level have been observed (i.e., the brown areas in southwest Kansas, and in or near the Texas panhandle). In the more humid areas, such as eastern and central Nebraska and south of Lubbock, water levels have risen since 1980.

Withdrawals from the Ogallala Aquifer for irrigation amounted to 26 cubic km (21 million acre feet) in 2000, which is slightly greater than the historical discharge rate of the Colorado River.. As of 2005, the total depletion since pre-development amounted to 253 million acre-feet (312 cubic km).[5] Some estimates say it will dry up in as little as 25 years. Many farmers in the Texas High Plains, which rely particularly on the underground source, are now turning away from irrigated agriculture as they become aware of the hazards of overpumping.[6]





--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


Edited by AlphaFalfa (02/18/11 01:11 PM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13984667 - 02/18/11 01:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

There is an easy solution to this problem as well.

USA exports a large percentage of everything grown from water on that aquifer.

A halting of food exports, particularly of grains, a serious long-term investment and effort made by the government to reduce inefficient water use and increasing domestic grain prices and products prices, would all help to make the ogalla have a recharge rate equal or similair to the consumption rate.

Where are all the major news networks on this?

Oh thats right, on terrorism.


--------------------
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13984696 - 02/18/11 01:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13985415 - 02/18/11 03:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Do you know how to read?


imbecils.


:facepalm:


it doesn't become a part of the water cycle, as it cannot be recharged at a rate would coincide with the rate of consumption, thereby making it a non-renewable resource!




Apparently you don't know what the precipitation/evaporation cycle is.  Water in general, not water in a puddle, is in cycle.  Everything else is a transportation issue.
Quote:



The ogalla aquifer feeds one of Americas most agriculturally productive zones. it is highly relevant, unless your an imbecil and cow  shit for breakfast.


  It never fucking ends. 
Quote:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogallala_Aquifer#Groundwater_recharge

Change in groundwater storage
The USGS estimated that total water storage was about 2,925 million acre feet (3,608 km³) in 2005. This is a decline of about 253 million acre feet (312 km³) (or 9%) since substantial ground-water irrigation development began, in the 1950s.[5]
Water conservation practices (terracing and crop rotation), more efficient irrigation methods (center pivot and drip), and simply reduced area under irrigation have helped to slow depletion of the aquifer, but levels are generally still dropping. See the figure above for an illustration of the places where large drops in water level have been observed (i.e., the brown areas in southwest Kansas, and in or near the Texas panhandle). In the more humid areas, such as eastern and central Nebraska and south of Lubbock, water levels have risen since 1980.

Withdrawals from the Ogallala Aquifer for irrigation amounted to 26 cubic km (21 million acre feet) in 2000, which is slightly greater than the historical discharge rate of the Colorado River.. As of 2005, the total depletion since pre-development amounted to 253 million acre-feet (312 cubic km).[5] Some estimates say it will dry up in as little as 25 years. Many farmers in the Texas High Plains, which rely particularly on the underground source, are now turning away from irrigated agriculture as they become aware of the hazards of overpumping.[6]





If they don't use it what good is it?  And what does that have to do with "fossil water"?  If it was being replenished it wasn't "fossil water", was it?

The fucking stupid never ends.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13986180 - 02/18/11 06:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Where the aquifer is depleted, the fauna becomes depleted. Fauna acts as a buffer to wind and water erosion and temperature extremes. When you lose topsoil, the cost of growing goes up and the efficiency goes down. When you have temperatures that dip or rise above the norm for an area, the efficiency of farming for profit goes down.

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InvisibleShins
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: falcon]
    #13986328 - 02/18/11 07:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

FOX Forced To Apologize On Air Over Ron Paul CPAC Video Deception


"honest mistake" my ass.

They are professional liars.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13986497 - 02/18/11 07:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Do you know how to read?


imbecils.


:facepalm:


it doesn't become a part of the water cycle, as it cannot be recharged at a rate would coincide with the rate of consumption, thereby making it a non-renewable resource!




Apparently you don't know what the precipitation/evaporation cycle is.  Water in general, not water in a puddle, is in cycle.  Everything else is a transportation issue.

Then i wonder why the USGS is making the ogalla an issue....could it be that its because they haven't been blesssed by the awesome genius that is Zappa?

:lol:

our aY tool.


Quote:



The ogalla aquifer feeds one of Americas most agriculturally productive zones. it is highly relevant, unless your an imbecil and cow  shit for breakfast.


  It never fucking ends.

it certainly does, except those that usually have something to learn prevent themselves from learning because of an overinflated and convoluted perception of their intelligence
Quote:



--------------------
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Edited by AlphaFalfa (02/18/11 08:24 PM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13986687 - 02/18/11 08:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

If they don't use it what good is it?
Sustainability is the capacity to endure. In ecology, the word describes how biological systems remain diverse and productive over time. Long-lived and healthy wetlands and forests are examples of sustainable biological systems. For humans, sustainability is the potential for long-term maintenance of well being, which has environmental, economic, and social dimensions.
Healthy ecosystems and environments provide vital goods and services to humans and other organisms. There are two major ways of reducing negative human impact and enhancing ecosystem services. The first is environmental management; this approach is based largely on information gained from earth science, environmental science, and conservation biology. The second approach is management of human consumption of resources, which is based largely on information gained from economics.
Sustainability interfaces with economics through the social and ecological consequences of economic activity. Sustainability economics involves ecological economics where social, cultural, health-related and monetary/financial aspects are integrated. Moving towards sustainability is also a social challenge that entails international and national law, urban planning and transport, local and individual lifestyles and ethical consumerism. Ways of living more sustainably can take many forms from reorganising living conditions (e.g., ecovillages, eco-municipalities and sustainable cities), reappraising economic sectors (permaculture, green building, sustainable agriculture), or work practices (sustainable architecture), using science to develop new technologies (green technologies, renewable energy), to adjustments in individual lifestyles that conserve natural resources.


READ.


And what does that have to do with "fossil water"?  If it was being replenished it wasn't "fossil water", was it?

The fucking stupid never ends.


ARE you serious?






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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Shins]
    #13986914 - 02/18/11 09:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
"honest mistake" my ass.

They are professional liars.




See this is why it surprised me when I initially read this op title. There's a lot of overlap between CPAC footage viewers and FN viewers... so how did they even think they would get away with it? Oh that's right just apologize and move on.

Well I take it back, Fox didn't give RP the liberal treatment, they apologized and made a statement of retraction.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13987010 - 02/18/11 09:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The fucked up part is that the only made the retraction a few times following the clip.

So what about the fellow who watches on the day that the clip aired and didn't watch it until the retractionary statments ceased to be aired?

its another tactic.


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13988838 - 02/19/11 06:25 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
It's pretty easy to see that the media is corrupted.



QFT


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #13989602 - 02/19/11 11:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah it is.

And its not because of their shit on terrorism or iran, its the fact that they use this stuff to distract you from critically more important phenomena.

If the ogalla becomes obsolete in 20 years, food prices would soar.

Monstanto would take further control of the food system and people would be finding it harder and harder to live.

Not only that but even the media admits that the economy is still fundamentally fractured, cracked.

Throw in some more problems and all these environmental issues are seriously important.

Thats why i get so pissed at all these people constantly obsessed with shit about 9/11 and who dedicate all their time posting about them.

They care about making the world a better place, but when it comes down to it, they are running around in circles in a rat race, controlled by the media, when there is obviously more important issues.


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13989816 - 02/19/11 12:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'll be dead in 20 years.:haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13989913 - 02/19/11 12:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You are mistaken if you think that Monsanto will control agriculture in the event of a water shortage. Frankly there is only one water efficient way to incorporate Monsanto products into agriculture and that is hydroponics, simultaneously the most expensive and labor intensive method of agriculture. Monsanto will probibly be the AOL of the agricultural world (There not an ISP anymore wtf do they do for money now? Who knows).

In actuality proper control of the hydrological cycle will probibly be a common method of water conservation on farms when reality forces them to adapt. I recall reading in a book about agricultural management that the use by plants of over-ground sprinkler systems is only 30%, the rest is evaporated. If the water was administered by a source under the ground it goes up to 90%. That's cutting inefficiency by 3 without even having to put in a mulch layer or anything like that.

Some places in the US where the Ogallala aquifer is the water source have actually banned rainwater catchment as a source of water, under the auspices that it "taps the replenishment source" of the aquifer. It's not like it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that rainwater catchment is more efficient than a pump thousands of kilometers into the ground.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13990416 - 02/19/11 03:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
1.You are mistaken if you think that Monsanto will control agriculture in the event of a water shortage. Frankly there is only one water efficient way to incorporate Monsanto products into agriculture and that is hydroponics(SOURCE?), simultaneously the most expensive and labor intensive method of agriculture. Monsanto will probibly be the AOL of the agricultural world (There not an ISP anymore wtf do they do for money now? Who knows).

1.Nop. You've overlooked that  a water shortage means a decrease in the food supply, particularly corn and soy bean(monsanto's main seed products).

Look at monsanto's profits in 2008, when the international food crisis was occuring.

Net income rose to $256 million, or 46 cents per share, in the first quarter ended November 30 from $90 million, or 16 cents per share, a year earlier.


Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/01/03/businesspro-monsanto-results-dc-idUKWNAS553620080103
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932008_world_food_price_crisis



In actuality proper control of the hydrological cycle will probibly be a common method of water conservation on farms when reality forces them to adapt. I recall reading in a book about agricultural management that the use by plants of over-ground sprinkler systems is only 30%, the rest is evaporated. If the water was administered by a source under the ground it goes up to 90%. That's cutting inefficiency by 3 without even having to put in a mulch layer or anything like that.

Some places in the US where the Ogallala aquifer is the water source have actually banned rainwater catchment as a source of water, under the auspices that it "taps the replenishment source" of the aquifer. It's not like it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that rainwater catchment is more efficient than a pump thousands of kilometers into the ground.

:thumbup:

Also, USA exports a large percentage of the grains and legumes grown from the ogalla. The solution is rather simple; increase efficiency through insentives to farmers to increase the longevity of their farms and its use to their predecessors and a decrease in the amount of exported grain which can be accomplished through increasing domestic grain prices, thereby giving farmers a viable market to sell their crops too.





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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13996163 - 02/20/11 03:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There is a difference, that food crisis wasn't caused by water shortages.

Their buisness/agricultural model is not compatible with water conservation.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13996286 - 02/20/11 03:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
There is a difference, that food crisis wasn't caused by water shortages.

Their buisness/agricultural model is not compatible with water conservation.





Though I agree that monsanto's based farming practice is not compatible with water conservation, it makes no difference...because of two things; demand for monsanto agricultural products(pesticides, fertilizers and seeds) will never cease, regardless of a water shortage and secondly when there is a shortage of supply and demand stays stable(which it always will for monsanto products) food prices become inflated.

These two phenomena combined show that even in a water shortage Monsanto benefits. The only situation where monsanto would become obsolete, is if the water shortages are so bad that monsanto products can simply not be grown. However, in the next 10-15 years, water shortages are more likely to influence pricing and availability(third world), which rather than halting monsanto's consolidation and control of the food system, would only conflate it, as it did in 2008.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13996315 - 02/20/11 03:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Monsanto products greatly increase crop yields.  You got a problem with that?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13996917 - 02/20/11 05:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Monsanto products greatly increase crop yields.  You got a problem with that?





Wanna read my 7 page research intro to the problems we face with monsanto products i did?


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13996937 - 02/20/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Not at all.  Do you deny that Monsanto products increase crop yield?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13997083 - 02/20/11 06:17 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

An April 2006 report from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) states that “currently available GM crops do not increase the yield potential of a hybrid variety. […] In fact, yield may even decrease if the varieties used to carry the herbicide tolerant or insect-resistant genes are not the highest yielding cultivars”.

Fernandez-Cornejo, J. & Caswell. April 2006. Genetically Engineered Crops in the UnitedStates. USDA/ERS Economic Information Bulletin n. 11.

Link:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib11/eib11.pdf



Source: Benbrook, Charles Evidence of the Magnitude and Consequences of the Roundup Ready Soybean Yield Drag from University-Based Varietal Trials in 1998 Mindfully Green, 13 July 1999. Retrieved 27 October 2010.

http://www.biotech-info.net/RR_yield_drag_98.pdf

This 1999 study by Charles Benbrook, Chief Scientist of the Organic Center, found that genetically engineered Roundup Ready soybeans did not increase yields.The report reviewed over 8,200 university trials in 1998 and found that Roundup Ready soybeans yielded 7-10% less than similar natural varieties. In addition, the same study found that farmers used 5-10 times more herbicide (Roundup) on Roundup Ready soybeans than on conventional ones. The only reason farmers seem to prefer Roundup Ready soybeans is because they simplify management of large chemically-intensive farms, by allowing them, for example, to spray larger doses of herbicides from planes on crops, engineered to be resistant to the particular herbicide. Applications of biotechnology continue the legacy of industrial agricultural with monocultures and high energy and chemical inputs.


Qaim, Matim; Zilberman, D (2003). "Yield Effects of Genetically Modified Crops in Developing Countries". Science 299 (5608): 900–902. doi:10.1126/science.1080609. PMID 12574633.

This study found that in DEVELOPiNG Countries, cotton yields increased over 50%.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/299/5608/900.abstract

There's plenty more info and now that were asking questions; do you know of any of the problems associated with GMO's?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13997110 - 02/20/11 06:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i don't whether to laugh or feel sorry for you.

Maybe i will do both?

:facepalm:


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13997186 - 02/20/11 06:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You sure are dancing all around the yield question, aren't you?  Because as much as you hate it they most certainly do increase crop yield.

So we'll move on.

Have you or have you not heard of Paul Ehrlich?

How do you feel about the delta smelt?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13997815 - 02/20/11 08:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You sure are dancing all around the yield question, aren't you?  Because as much as you hate it they most certainly do increase crop yield.

So we'll move on.

Have you or have you not heard of Paul Ehrlich?

How do you feel about the delta smelt?




:lol:

i feel like its pointless to argue with you, when you think presenting evidence is 'dancing'.

:facepalm:


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13999674 - 02/21/11 06:02 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
they most certainly do increase crop yield.




that's the whole point of adding unnatural crap into your crops.  bigger yields.  shittier food.  eat up zappa.

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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Grav]
    #13999819 - 02/21/11 07:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well at least you know that they increase yields, unlike the real True Believer above.  And I can afford the more expensive food process, unlike many many billions of others.  So keep starving people in the name of food purity.

Do you have any idea how many poor brown people died because of Rachel Carson?


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Grav]
    #14001399 - 02/21/11 01:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Alphafalfa, I would like to read your paper.

It's possible that you are correct and in actuality water shortages would lead to an increase in monsanto sales, particularly to regions where water conservation was not necessary.

Here is some images of the size of the aquifer and where it's being withdrawn.

Now it's not going to run out all at the same time for everyone, in fact it is unlikely that it will be allowed to just be pumped dry before anyone does anything. There won't be some apocalyptic event where there's no more water and the US doesn't export enough grains and world prices shoots up. Not only do the people running the pumps know how low the water is getting but they will plan ahead, they will start metering it and there will be time to plan. People will have time to look at and implement conservation strategies.

It is not as if other countries are not finding that Monsanto seeds don't yield higher. There are many farmers in India and other places complaining of Monsanto products that after a few years using the seeds where they get good yields and then they see significantly declining returns.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14007886 - 02/22/11 02:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Alphafalfa, I would like to read your paper.

It's possible that you are correct and in actuality water shortages would lead to an increase in monsanto sales, particularly to regions where water conservation was not necessary.

Here is some images of the size of the aquifer and where it's being withdrawn.

Now it's not going to run out all at the same time for everyone, in fact it is unlikely that it will be allowed to just be pumped dry before anyone does anything. There won't be some apocalyptic event where there's no more water and the US doesn't export enough grains and world prices shoots up. Not only do the people running the pumps know how low the water is getting but they will plan ahead, they will start metering it and there will be time to plan. People will have time to look at and implement conservation strategies.

It is not as if other countries are not finding that Monsanto seeds don't yield higher. There are many farmers in India and other places complaining of Monsanto products that after a few years using the seeds where they get good yields and then they see significantly declining returns.





And the USDA completley agree's.

Obviosly we should rethink what the USDA researches and concludes about GMO's because Zappa said so.

An April 2006 report from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) states that “currently available GM crops do not increase the yield potential of a hybrid variety. […] In fact, yield may even decrease if the varieties used to carry the herbicide tolerant or insect-resistant genes are not the highest yielding cultivars”.

Fernandez-Cornejo, J. & Caswell. April 2006. Genetically Engineered Crops in the UnitedStates. USDA/ERS Economic Information Bulletin n. 11.

Link:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib11/eib11.pdf


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Grav]
    #14007902 - 02/22/11 02:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
they most certainly do increase crop yield.




that's the whole point of adding unnatural crap into your crops.  bigger yields.  shittier food.  eat up zappa.





Maybe if you actually reseached into these issues and less into 9/11, thereby distracting you to focus on useless problems, you would know that the whole point of GMO's is the control of the food system.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14007915 - 02/22/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Alphafalfa, I would like to read your paper.

It's possible that you are correct and in actuality water shortages would lead to an increase in monsanto sales, particularly to regions where water conservation was not necessary.

Here is some images of the size of the aquifer and where it's being withdrawn.

Now it's not going to run out all at the same time for everyone, in fact it is unlikely that it will be allowed to just be pumped dry before anyone does anything. There won't be some apocalyptic event where there's no more water and the US doesn't export enough grains and world prices shoots up. Not only do the people running the pumps know how low the water is getting but they will plan ahead, they will start metering it and there will be time to plan. People will have time to look at and implement conservation strategies.

It is not as if other countries are not finding that Monsanto seeds don't yield higher. There are many farmers in India and other places complaining of Monsanto products that after a few years using the seeds where they get good yields and then they see significantly declining returns.




Give me a PM with your email, I will send it through there.


But give me some time, its been a while since I wrote it and I work alot now.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14008060 - 02/22/11 03:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
And the USDA completley agree's.

Obviosly we should rethink what the USDA researches and concludes about GMO's because Zappa said so.

An April 2006 report from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) states that “currently available GM crops do not increase the yield potential of a hybrid variety. […] In fact, yield may even decrease if the varieties used to carry the herbicide tolerant or insect-resistant genes are not the highest yielding cultivars”.

Fernandez-Cornejo, J. & Caswell. April 2006. Genetically Engineered Crops in the UnitedStates. USDA/ERS Economic Information Bulletin n. 11.

Link:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib11/eib11.pdf




From your link, cherry picking liar:
Quote:


Currently available GE crops do not increase the yield potential of a hybrid
variety. In fact, yield may even decrease if the varieties used to carry the
herbicide-tolerant or insect-resistant genes are not the highest yielding cultivars.
4 However, by protecting the plant from certain pests, GE crops can
prevent yield losses compared with non-GE hybrids, particularly when pest
infestation is high.





And

Quote:

Many field tests and farm surveys have examined the yield and cost effects
of using GE crops (table 3). The majority of the results show GE crops
produce higher yields than conventional crops.





Also this for the enviroweenies out there:

Quote:

Genetically engineered crops also seem to have environmental benefits.  Overall pesticide use is lower for adopters of GE crops, and the adoption of herbicide-tolerant soybeans may indirectly benefit the environment by encouraging the adoption of soil conservation practices.




Your own fucking link, liar boy.

Did you think I wouldn't check your flagrantly absurd claim?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14008852 - 02/22/11 05:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This 1999 study by Charles Benbrook, Chief Scientist of the Organic Center, found that genetically engineered Roundup Ready soybeans did not increase yields.The report reviewed over 8,200 university trials in 1998 and found that Roundup Ready soybeans yielded 7-10% less than similar natural varieties. In addition, the same study found that farmers used 5-10 times more herbicide (Roundup) on Roundup Ready soybeans than on conventional ones. The only reason farmers seem to prefer Roundup Ready soybeans is because they simplify management of large chemically-intensive farms, by allowing them, for example, to spray larger doses of herbicides from planes on crops, engineered to be resistant to the particular herbicide. Applications of biotechnology continue the legacy of industrial agricultural with monocultures and high energy and chemical inputs.


http://www.biotech-info.net/RR_yield_drag_98.pdf


The studies that this guy looks at are independent of Monsanto and Dupont's funding!!!!

Who would have thought???? Wanna know why i offered you a USDA article? Becuase you don't trust anything from independent sources, you'd rather trust government!!!



Cherry picking my ARSE.
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
And the USDA completley agree's.

Obviosly we should rethink what the USDA researches and concludes about GMO's because Zappa said so.

An April 2006 report from the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) states that “currently available GM crops do not increase the yield potential of a hybrid variety. […] In fact, yield may even decrease if the varieties used to carry the herbicide tolerant or insect-resistant genes are not the highest yielding cultivars”.

Fernandez-Cornejo, J. & Caswell. April 2006. Genetically Engineered Crops in the UnitedStates. USDA/ERS Economic Information Bulletin n. 11.

Link:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/eib11/eib11.pdf




From your link, cherry picking liar:
Quote:


Currently available GE crops do not increase the yield potential of a hybrid
variety. In fact, yield may even decrease if the varieties used to carry the
herbicide-tolerant or insect-resistant genes are not the highest yielding cultivars.

4 However, by protecting the plant from certain pests, GE crops can
prevent yield losses compared with non-GE hybrids, particularly when pest
infestation is high.





So what????

You can't disprove the fact that hybrid varieties of seed are still winning against GMO yields!!!




And

Quote:

Many field tests and farm surveys have examined the yield and cost effects
of using GE crops (table 3). The majority of the results show GE crops
produce higher yields than conventional crops.





Conventional crops!!!

Not hybrid crops!!!!! Moron!

Also this for the enviroweenies out there:

Quote:

Genetically engineered crops also seem to have environmental benefits.  Overall pesticide use is lower for adopters of GE crops, and the adoption of herbicide-tolerant soybeans may indirectly benefit the environment by encouraging the adoption of soil conservation practices.







Your own fucking link, liar boy.

Did you think I wouldn't check your flagrantly absurd claim?


Lack of literacy!!


HAHAHA - don't even get me into the environmental problems with GE crops.

Many of these problems have not even been tested for.

You probally have no fucking clue what i am even talking about, do you?




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14008959 - 02/22/11 06:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:


http://www.biotech-info.net/RR_yield_drag_98.pdf


The studies that this guy looks at are independent of Monsanto and Dupont's funding!!!!

Who would have thought???? Wanna know why i offered you a USDA article? Becuase you don't trust anything from independent sources, you'd rather trust government!!!




Linky no workee.  Wonder whyeee.

You most certainly did cherry pick, pumpkin, and thereby exposed yourself as a liar.

Here is the killer for your nonsense.  If they didn't increase yields why the fuck would anybody pay for their seeds?  It takes a particularly deranged mindset to think anything else is in play.


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14009515 - 02/22/11 07:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm a bit of an Ag buff myself so I looked into the soil conservation claim, because I wanted to understand why.
Quote:

According to USDA survey data, about 60 percent of the area planted with
HT soybeans was under conservation tillage in 1997, compared with only
about 40 percent of the acres planted with conventional soybeans (fig. 9).
Differences in the use of no-till between adopters and nonadopters of HT
soybeans are even more pronounced: 40 percent of acres planted with HT
soybeans were under no-till, twice the corresponding share of acreage
planted with conventional soybeans. As a result, adoption of HT crops may
indirectly benefit the environment by encouraging farmers to use soil
conservation practices.



This is just a statistical aberration. The paper presents no causal link between GMO products and the "soil conservation", which actually means the use of no-till cropping methods. No-till cropping operations receive a subsidy (which I agree is good ag policy) in the US and are likely taught to farmers in Ag schools, the same schools in the US that blatantly promote the use of GMO/Monsanto products. While it is more common for unschooled farmers to use conventional seeds. It's far more likely that the same people who are getting taught to use these products know about the subsidy and benefits of no-till rather than generational farmers. The difference is only of 60%:40% and isn't significant enough to suggest that the GMO crops themselves have anything to do with the increased use of no-till among GMO farmers.

IME though Alphafalfa, if your going to waste your time correcting every idiotic claim zappaisgod makes... your gonna waste a lot of time. Lets just say, that for him knowing anything about a topic is not a prerequisite for him forming an opinion on it (likely because someone else has already formed his opinion on it in the first place). Don't feed the trolls right? Though, through his ridiculous questions, claims and opinions, he does make a good sounding board for someone intelligent to actually show their knowledge.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
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OfflineTri High
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14010741 - 02/22/11 11:06 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I wonder how much acreage in America is used up by grass lawns which could be watered just as much and yield a whooole lot of good food.  Even without the GM varieties.  We could also grow hemp and use it for everything from paper to plastics (hydrocarbons). 

America is stuck in this "others provide necessities, I provide commodities" situation.  Where we all that own homes could be granted some time to tend our food livelihood on our own property. 

I think that's kind of messed.


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Tri High]
    #14010888 - 02/22/11 11:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The real question is how much of falling water tables is used to water said grass. Think about it, places like California, Arizona or Texas where people use falling water tables to water their fucking lawns.

I figure this is a monetary incentive problem. Many cities/municipalities give free residential water, while stickers that say "I'M A TOTAL FUCKING JACKASS" could cost as high as $5.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14011188 - 02/23/11 12:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

In May 2000, results of a two-year study by Nebraska University's Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources showed RR soya yielded 6% less than their closest non-GM relatives and 11% less than high-yielding non-GM varieties [2]. The yield penalty was attributed to the gene insertion process.

Similar yield drags have been reported since 1997.

    * In 1997, the University of Purdue found that transgenic soya varieties yielded on average 12-20% less than unmodified varieties grown at the same locations [3].
    * Research published in 1998 by the University of Arkansas and Cyanamid revealed reduced profit levels and lower yields for GM soya and cotton compared with unmodified varieties [3].
    * The University of Wisconsin found GM soya yields from the 1998 harvest lower than non-modified varieties in over 80% of cases in trials across nine US states [4].
    * In Iowa, a 1999 survey of reported an average RR-soybean yield reduction of 4% in over 365 fields [5].
    * A review of 40 trials of soya varieties in the north central region of the US in 1999 found a mean 4% yield drag in RR soya [6].
    * In the UK, reports of crop trials from the National Institute of Agricultural Botany show yields from GM winter oilseed rape and sugar beet 5-8% less than high-yielding conventional varieties [7].

In summary, yield losses, not yield gains, are more commonly associated with transgenic crops compared to best available conventionally-bred cultivars and hybrids [8].

[2] http://www.biotech-info.net/Roundup_soybeans_yield_less.html

[3] http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/gmlemmings.htm

[4] http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/wisconsinRRsoyatrials98.htm

[5] http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/news/9-22-99gmorel.html

[6] [6]Oplinger, E.S., M.J. Martinka, and K.A. Schmitz (1999) Performance of transgenetic soybeans - Northern US, presented to the ASTA Meetings, Chicago, cited in [8].

[7]Reported in Farmers Weekly (UK), 4th December 1998.

[8] http://www.plant.uoguelph.ca/faculty/eclark/10reasons.htm

Anything else Zappa?

The link doesn't work because the publication is not available through the internet. It is a scholarly article.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14011216 - 02/23/11 12:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
The real question is how much of falling water tables is used to water said grass. Think about it, places like California, Arizona or Texas where people use falling water tables to water their fucking lawns.

I figure this is a monetary incentive problem. Many cities/municipalities give free residential water, while stickers that say "I'M A TOTAL FUCKING JACKASS" could cost as high as $5.




Zappa does make heavy claims with little research to back it.

He seems to resemble a mainstream opinion of what people believe.

Yeah and FOX news just sits there and comments on the latest death in the middle east!

But then again, I don't blame them. There is money to be made in making things scarce.

I realize that USA won't be screwed to the point of starvation, but may suffer a severe decrease in quality of life.


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14011636 - 02/23/11 01:41 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Oh come on, it's not always the latest death in the middle east, they are quite selective about the deaths in the middle east that they do or do not report on.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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OfflineYrat
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14012024 - 02/23/11 05:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

well this thread didn't take too long to get immensely off-track.



--------------------
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to one who is striking at the root."
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Yrat]
    #14012338 - 02/23/11 08:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:

Zappa does make heavy claims with little research to back it.





I made one claim.  That GE crops increase yields.  You provided me with the research that supports that although you lied about it and selectively quoted from it to create a false impression.  Although I most certainly could have found many more articles I found it particularly gratifying to use your own petard on which to hoist you.

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14013531 - 02/23/11 01:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

No, we don't.  Why don't you provide some links?

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OfflineJoe Joe
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Joe Joe]
    #14013559 - 02/23/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Back to the topic.

Fox, CNN, and everybody else did this to Ron Paul in the 08' race too.  Every time they did a poll, Paul was in the lead by huge margins and the red faced anchors always came up with some excuse as to why their own poll results were wrong.  Just look at YouTube - it's full of clips that show the media's (both sides, not just FOX) intentional silencing of the Paul campaign. 

Anyone who doesn't support Paul does not support the very foundation of our country - The Constitution of the United States of America.  Period.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Joe Joe]
    #14013566 - 02/23/11 01:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Joe Joe said:
No, we don't.  Why don't you provide some links?



I'm not talking to you.  I'm talking to the supposed expert.  For you I will recommend Google.  It is a wonderfully useful tool for education.  Avail yourself at your leisure.


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #14013610 - 02/23/11 01:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, that's what I thought.  You didn't give him any links either.  Loser.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Joe Joe]
    #14013654 - 02/23/11 01:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Joe Joe said:
Anyone who doesn't support Paul does not support the very foundation of our country - The Constitution of the United States of America.  Period.




I wouldn't say that, but there is no doubt that Paul is a better candidate than most all that are run for a spot on the republican ticket.

I know fox has had a long history of having different poll results than other news agencies. I'd prefer to see proof of others before I believe that they are all doing it.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14013739 - 02/23/11 01:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Just look at YouTube.  There are plenty of clips archived there that show multiple news agencies doing the same thing to the Paul campaign in 2008.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Joe Joe]
    #14013902 - 02/23/11 02:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Nobody gives a shit about nobody Ron Paul.  I'd vote for Obama before I'd vote for either that cunt or Huckabee.

I have no intention with supplying the so-called expert on environmental issues with links.  You lazy children need to do a little work for yourselves.  Or not.  You can stay stupid.


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14014085 - 02/23/11 02:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Huckabee is a religious nutbag.

Fuck that guy.

I went to a city hall meeting recently and they said a prayer before starting.

How is that supposed to work?  Separation of state and church?  But my city council (mayor included) are all praying before doing state-centered business?

What the fuck gives?


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14014597 - 02/23/11 03:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Nobody gives a shit about nobody Ron Paul.  I'd vote for Obama before I'd vote for either that cunt or Huckabee.





Sans the media censorship last year you would be very wrong in your assessment. 

Best fundraiser last year?  Ron Paul.  And he did it with private online donations.  The most money ever raised in one day.  The pundits were at a total loss to explain how this was possible.  Also, as previously noted, they refuted their own polls when Paul was the standout favorite. 

Paul supporters are the most enthusiastic and active.  We are young and we are the future.  Doesn't matter how much you deny it old man.  I don't know if Ron will ever be president, but mark my words - Rand will be.  When it happens I will remind you of this conversation.  Assuming your old ass is still around and kickin.

Edited by Joe Joe (02/23/11 03:46 PM)

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14016993 - 02/23/11 10:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:

Zappa does make heavy claims with little research to back it.





I made one claim.  That GE crops increase yields.  You provided me with the research that supports that although you lied about it and selectively quoted from it to create a false impression.  Although I most certainly could have found many more articles I found it particularly gratifying to use your own petard on which to hoist you.

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?





In May 2000, results of a two-year study by Nebraska University's Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources showed RR soya yielded 6% less than their closest non-GM relatives and 11% less than high-yielding non-GM varieties [2]. The yield penalty was attributed to the gene insertion process.

Similar yield drags have been reported since 1997.

    * In 1997, the University of Purdue found that transgenic soya varieties yielded on average 12-20% less than unmodified varieties grown at the same locations [3].
    * Research published in 1998 by the University of Arkansas and Cyanamid revealed reduced profit levels and lower yields for GM soya and cotton compared with unmodified varieties [3].
    * The University of Wisconsin found GM soya yields from the 1998 harvest lower than non-modified varieties in over 80% of cases in trials across nine US states [4].
    * In Iowa, a 1999 survey of reported an average RR-soybean yield reduction of 4% in over 365 fields [5].
    * A review of 40 trials of soya varieties in the north central region of the US in 1999 found a mean 4% yield drag in RR soya [6].
    * In the UK, reports of crop trials from the National Institute of Agricultural Botany show yields from GM winter oilseed rape and sugar beet 5-8% less than high-yielding conventional varieties [7].

In summary, yield losses, not yield gains, are more commonly associated with transgenic crops compared to best available conventionally-bred cultivars and hybrids [8].

[2] http://www.biotech-info.net/Roundup_soybeans_yield_less.html

[3] http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/gmlemmings.htm

[4] http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/wisconsinRRsoyatrials98.htm

[5] http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/news/9-22-99gmorel.html

[6] [6]Oplinger, E.S., M.J. Martinka, and K.A. Schmitz (1999) Performance of transgenetic soybeans - Northern US, presented to the ASTA Meetings, Chicago, cited in [8].

[7]Reported in Farmers Weekly (UK), 4th December 1998.

[8] http://www.plant.uoguelph.ca/faculty/eclark/10reasons.htm


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14018755 - 02/24/11 08:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food

Quote:

A 1999 study by Charles Benbrook, Chief Scientist of the Organic Center, found that genetically engineered Roundup Ready soybeans did not increase yields.[45] The report reviewed over 8,200 university trials in 1998 and found that Roundup Ready soybeans had a yield drag of 5.3% across all varieties tested. In addition, the same study found that farmers used 2–5 times more herbicide (Roundup) on Roundup Ready soybeans compared to other popular weed management systems.[46]

However research published in Science in 2003 has shown that the use of genetically modified Bt cotton in India increased yields by 60% over the period 1998–2001 while the number of applications of insecticides against bollworm were three times less on average.[47]

A 2008 Soil Association report found that some scientific studies claimed that genetically modified varieties of plants do not produce higher crop yields than normal plants.[48]

In 2009 the Union of Concerned Scientists summarized numerous peer-reviewed studies on the yield contribution of genetic engineering in the United States. This report examined the two most widely grown engineered crops—soybeans and maize (corn).[49] Unlike many other studies, this work separated the yield contribution of the engineered gene from that of the many naturally occurring yield genes in crops.

The report found that engineered herbicide tolerant soy and maize did not increase yield at the national, aggregate level. Maize engineered with Bt insect resistance genes increased national yield by about 3 to 4 percent. Engineered crops increased net yield in all cases.

The study concluded that in the United States, other agricultural methods have made a much greater contribution to national crop yield increases in recent years than genetic engineering. United States Department of Agriculture data record maize yield increases of about 28 percent since engineered varieties were first commercialized in the mid 1990s. The yield contribution of engineered genes has therefore been a modest fraction—about 14 percent—of the maize yield increase since the mid 1990s.

A 2010 article summarised the results of 49 peer reviewed studies on GM crops worldwide.[50][51] On average, farmers in developed countries experienced increase in yield of 6% and in underdeveloped countries of 29%. Tillage was decreased by 25–58% on herbicide resistant soybeans, insecticide applications on Bt crops were reduced by 14–76% and 72% of farmers worldwide experienced positive economic results.




Did you know that soy beans aren't the only GM crop there is?  It's true.

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?


--------------------

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OfflineYrat
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14019852 - 02/24/11 12:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

take it to another thread ladies


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14020185 - 02/24/11 02:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food

Quote:

A 1999 study by Charles Benbrook, Chief Scientist of the Organic Center, found that genetically engineered Roundup Ready soybeans did not increase yields.[45] The report reviewed over 8,200 university trials in 1998 and found that Roundup Ready soybeans had a yield drag of 5.3% across all varieties tested. In addition, the same study found that farmers used 2–5 times more herbicide (Roundup) on Roundup Ready soybeans compared to other popular weed management systems.[46]

However research published in Science in 2003 has shown that the use of genetically modified Bt cotton in India increased yields by 60% over the period 1998–2001 while the number of applications of insecticides against bollworm were three times less on average.[47]

A 2008 Soil Association report found that some scientific studies claimed that genetically modified varieties of plants do not produce higher crop yields than normal plants.[48]

In 2009 the Union of Concerned Scientists summarized numerous peer-reviewed studies on the yield contribution of genetic engineering in the United States. This report examined the two most widely grown engineered crops—soybeans and maize (corn).[49] Unlike many other studies, this work separated the yield contribution of the engineered gene from that of the many naturally occurring yield genes in crops.

The report found that engineered herbicide tolerant soy and maize did not increase yield at the national, aggregate level. Maize engineered with Bt insect resistance genes increased national yield by about 3 to 4 percent. Engineered crops increased net yield in all cases.

The study concluded that in the United States, other agricultural methods have made a much greater contribution to national crop yield increases in recent years than genetic engineering. United States Department of Agriculture data record maize yield increases of about 28 percent since engineered varieties were first commercialized in the mid 1990s. The yield contribution of engineered genes has therefore been a modest fraction—about 14 percent—of the maize yield increase since the mid 1990s.

A 2010 article summarised the results of 49 peer reviewed studies on GM crops worldwide.[50][51] On average, farmers in developed countries experienced increase in yield of 6% and in underdeveloped countries of 29%. Tillage was decreased by 25–58% on herbicide resistant soybeans, insecticide applications on Bt crops were reduced by 14–76% and 72% of farmers worldwide experienced positive economic results.




Quote:

Did you know that soy beans aren't the only GM crop there is?  It's true.




You oughta retract your statement then because obviously saying that GM crops increase yields is clearly not true. Also, I never said that all GM crops were not capable of producing more yields!!! I said that the statement GM crops product more yields in simply incorrect!!!  BASIC ARGUMENTATION ZAPPA.

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?




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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14020211 - 02/24/11 02:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You also do know that the majority of the studies done on GM crops are funded by Monsanto themselves right?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14020216 - 02/24/11 02:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Are you fucking joking?  GM crops do increase yields.  The only exception to that you produced was for soy beans.  In every other case I know of GM crops increase yields.  I didn't get specific.  I was deliberately general.  You on the other got general by saying, generally they don't increase yields, when all you had was a single crop.  Basic argumentation, child.  English.  Learn it

Quote:

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?




--------------------

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14021087 - 02/24/11 05:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Are you fucking joking?  GM crops do increase yields.  The only exception to that you produced was for soy beans.  In every other case I know of GM crops increase yields.  I didn't get specific.  I was deliberately general.  You on the other got general by saying, generally they don't increase yields, when all you had was a single crop.  Basic argumentation, child.  English.  Learn it

Quote:

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?








Don't get me started on the fucking environment boss, you will be begging me to stop by the end of it.

English???? English?????

Are you fucking out of your mind?????

You don't mention that you so happen to be talking generally about GM crops after you already make such a claim, then gnarl at people for not knowing this.

My question is, why didn't you just say; generally GM crops have higher yields. Instead of GM crops have higher yields?

Am I suppose to presuppose that you are speaking generally about this without you making mention of it?

Is this what you think BASIC ENGLISH IS?

:lol:

:facepalm:


Grain yield of initial Bt corn hybrid introductions to farmers in the Northern Corn Belt
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
LAUER J. (1) ; WEDBERG J. (2) ;
Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Dep. of Agronomy, 1575 Linden Dr., Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison, WI 53706, ETATS-UNIS
(2) 337 Russell Labs, 1630 Linden Dr., Univ. of Wisconsin, Madison, WI 53706, ETATS-UNIS
Résumé / Abstract
European corn borer (ECB; Ostrinia nubilalis Hubner), is a major pest of corn (Zea mays L.) in North America. Recently, seed companies have begun to offer control of this pest by introducing synthetic genes derived from Bacillus thuringiensis spp. kurstaki (Bt) into the corn genome. Our objectives were to compare the yield of Bt hybrids with adapted high yielding non-Bt hybrids, and to evaluate Bt hybrid yield under economically significant ECB infestation. Experiments were established in the field at three locations in 1995 and one location during 1996. Three groups of corn hybrids were evaluated : transformed hybrids with the Bt gene, closely related isoline hybrids without the Bt gene, and standard high yielding hybrids adapted to these locations. ECB infestation treatments consisted of natural infestation, inoculation four times during the growing season, and insecticide application resulting in an ECB free treatment. Grain yield of Bt corn hybrids was not affected by ECB. Yield of isoline hybrids was 10% lower than both standard and Bt hybrids regardless of ECB treatment. Yield of Bt hybrids was 4 to 8% greater than standard hybrids when inoculated with ECB. However, yield of Bt hybrids was 8% less than standard hybrids when an insecticide was applied. Meld of initial Bt hybrid introductions was equivalent to or better than standard hybrids, except in environments with low ECB.


More indipendent researchers finding contradicting your findings....


Development, yield, grain moisture and nitrogen uptake of Bt corn hybrids and their conventional near-isolines

B.L. MaCorresponding Author Contact Information, E-mail The Corresponding Author and K.D. Subedi

Eastern Cereal and Oilseed Research Centre (ECORC), Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, 960 Carling Avenue, Ottawa, Ont., Canada K1A 0C6
Received 11 May 2004;
revised 28 September 2004;
accepted 29 September 2004.
Available online 6 November 2004.

Abstract

There are concerns over the economic benefits of corn (Zea mays L.) hybrids with the Bt trait transferred from Bacillus thuringiensis. A field experiment including three to seven pairs of commercial hybrids and their transgenic Bt near-isolines were grown side-by-side for three consecutive years in Ottawa, Canada (45°17′N, 75°45′W; 93 m above sea level) to determine (i) which hybrid had the highest yielding potential, (ii) if there was a differential response of Bt and non-Bt hybrids to N application, and (iii) under natural infestation of European corn borer (ECB), whether there was a yield advantage of Bt over non-Bt hybrids to justify their cost. We found that some of the Bt hybrids took 2–3 additional days to reach silking and maturity, and produced a similar or up to 12% lower grain yields with 3–5% higher grain moisture at maturity, in comparison with their non-Bt counterpart. Although N application increased grain yield and N uptake in 2 of the 3 years, there was no N-by-hybrid interaction on yield or other agronomic traits. Most Bt hybrids had similar to or lower total N content in grain with higher N in stover than their respective non-Bt near-isolines. Under extreme weather conditions (e.g. cool air temperature at planting and severe drought during the development), some of the hybrids (both Bt and non-Bt) required up to 400 additional crop heat units (CHU) to reach physiological maturity than indicated by the supplying companies. Our data suggest that within the same maturity group, it was the superior hybrids (non-Bt trait) that led to the greatest N accumulation, and the highest grain yield. Under the conditions tested, there was no yield advantage of Bt hybrids in comparison with their conventional counterparts when stalk lodging and breakage of the non-Bt counterpart by ECB was low to moderate.




http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T6M-4DRBBYB-1&_user=10&_coverDate=09%2F14%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1655272988&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=072506cde1e7800d8429c16e6b60fb38&searchtype=a


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14021148 - 02/24/11 05:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It never fucking ends with you.  One sentence

Quote:

There are concerns over the economic benefits of corn (Zea mays L.) hybrids with the Bt trait transferred from Bacillus thuringiensis.




Could you even invent a more restrictive qualifier.  Other GM maize  has higher yields.  One aint so good.  Wow.  Stop.  No wait.  Don't stop.  Answer these first:

Quote:

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?





--------------------

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14021482 - 02/24/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It never fucking ends with you.  One sentence

Quote:

There are concerns over the economic benefits of corn (Zea mays L.) hybrids with the Bt trait transferred from Bacillus thuringiensis.




Could you even invent a more restrictive qualifier.  Other GM maize  has higher yields.  One aint so good.  Wow.  Stop.  No wait.  Don't stop.  Answer these first:

Quote:

Now to other points you ignore

1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?








:lol:

You really have no ability to read do you?

Quote:

European corn borer (ECB; Ostrinia nubilalis Hubner), is a major pest of corn (Zea mays L.)




This is from the study that you site as a reason to keep GMO's! The ones that say that they have 4-8% higher yields!!

The idiocy never ends does it?

Oh and from the same study, EXACTLY WHAT THE USDA SAiD!!!!

Quote:

However, yield of Bt hybrids was 8% less than standard hybrids when an insecticide was applied





WOW, so first you ask me to think i am a child because i don't know basic engish, on account that you didn't make clear that what you meant was GMO's 'in general' and now you obviously have showed that you have no fucking tail where you ass is.

:lol:


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
Praise Skatballah
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Loc: TX
Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14021551 - 02/24/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Some estimates say it will dry up in as little as 25 years. Many farmers in the Texas High Plains, which rely particularly on the underground source, are now turning away from irrigated agriculture as they become aware of the hazards of overpumping.[6]





If they don't use it what good is it?  And what does that have to do with "fossil water"?  If it was being replenished it wasn't "fossil water", was it?

The fucking stupid never ends.




Remember the dust bowl era? The midwest makes up the largest area of farmland in north America and is supplied almost solely by the Ogallala. So it actually is a pretty big deal if it runs out.

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OfflineYrat
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #14021635 - 02/24/11 06:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

mods, go ahead of lock this thoroughly derailed thread.  the egos in here are overwhelming.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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InvisibleFlop Johnson
Praise Skatballah
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Yrat]
    #14021644 - 02/24/11 06:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
the egos in here are overwhelming.



i have total ego death, bro

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InvisibleWise Toad
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #14021705 - 02/24/11 06:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck PSYOPs:shakingfist:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #14021980 - 02/24/11 07:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Flop Johnson said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Some estimates say it will dry up in as little as 25 years. Many farmers in the Texas High Plains, which rely particularly on the underground source, are now turning away from irrigated agriculture as they become aware of the hazards of overpumping.[6]





If they don't use it what good is it?  And what does that have to do with "fossil water"?  If it was being replenished it wasn't "fossil water", was it?

The fucking stupid never ends.




Remember the dust bowl era? The midwest makes up the largest area of farmland in north America and is supplied almost solely by the Ogallala. So it actually is a pretty big deal if it runs out.



1.  Do you know who Paul Ehrlich is?
2.  How many millions of little brown people have died from malaria because of Rachel Carson?
3.  How do you feel about the delta smelt?
4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?


--------------------

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14022325 - 02/24/11 08:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?



Some of it drains into river systems.
Some of the water evaporates from the soil it is applied to.
A lot of it evaporates through transpiration.
With evaporation it leaves behind minerals in the topsoil, increasing the salinity of the soil, decreasing it's productivity.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: falcon]
    #14023404 - 02/25/11 12:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

falcon said:
Quote:

4.  Do you know what happens to water after it is used to irrigate crops?



Some of it drains into river systems.
Some of the water evaporates from the soil it is applied to.
A lot of it evaporates through transpiration.
With evaporation it leaves behind minerals in the topsoil, increasing the salinity of the soil, decreasing it's productivity.





Be careful, ZAPPA clearly is an expert on this subject.

He knows!

:lol:


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Yrat]
    #14024417 - 02/25/11 08:46 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

come on FOX never lies:

Yesterday, USA Today and Gallup released a new poll that found that a whopping 61 percent of Americans oppose efforts like those of Gov. Scott Walker (R-WI) to strip public sector unions of collective bargaining rights. The poll also found that only a third of Americans support such a policy, indicating that Walker is pandering to the far-right of the American electorate and is hardly representative of mainstream political thought in this country.

This morning, during a debate about the situation in Wisconsin and collective bargaining rights in general, the Fox News show Fox & Friends referenced the USA Today/Gallup poll. With incredible brazenness, the Fox hosts actually reversed the results of the poll in order to claim that two-thirds of Americans supported Wisconsin-style laws rather than opposed them.




Fox News Chief, Roger Ailes, Urged Employee to Lie, Records Show

Quote:

Now, court documents filed in a lawsuit make clear whom Ms. Regan was accusing of urging her to lie: Roger E. Ailes, the powerful chairman of Fox News and a longtime friend of Mr. Giuliani. What is more, the documents say that Ms. Regan taped the telephone call from Mr. Ailes in which Mr. Ailes discussed her relationship with Mr. Kerik.




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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Taco Chef]
    #14027233 - 02/25/11 07:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Here's the gallop poll

Literally reversed.

Obviously fox lies.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (02/25/11 10:47 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14030075 - 02/26/11 11:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes we know, they made a mistake.  Now let me ask you this, "does the NY Times lie?"

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/02/028470.php

Eric Lipton told a falsehood to demonize conservatives.  I'm not expecting a retraction.  Then there is Dan Rather.....................  Oh, I almost forgot about the two page spread just before the election about McCain's affair

Fox made a transcription mistake.  It isn't the kind of thing you can even get away with.  Seriously, it is too easy to check.  These others?  Not so much.  You can hyperventilate all you want but it just exposes your own bias.


--------------------

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14030468 - 02/26/11 01:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You still can't explain why fox news isn't covering the ogalla issue. It is clearly incredibly important. Were talking about food and huge potential increases in food prices(dare I say availability)

There is no excuse.

This is but one issue that might affect us in the near future which fox news hasn't even touched upon.

Thats fucking corrupted.

There are dozens dozens more that you can't even fathom yet because you haven't been properly educated on the subject or tried to actually learn about environmentalism.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14030697 - 02/26/11 02:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
You still can't explain why fox news isn't covering the ogalla issue. It is clearly incredibly important. Were talking about food and huge potential increases in food prices(dare I say availability)




:facepalm:  Because nobody but you gives a fuck?  You know who else isn't covering it?  Everybody.
Quote:



There is no excuse.



Which is why you are not the director of programming for anything.
Quote:



This is but one issue that might affect us in the near future which fox news hasn't even touched upon.

Thats fucking corrupted.

There are dozens dozens more that you can't even fathom yet because you haven't been properly educated on the subject or tried to actually learn about environmentalism.




Tell us more about the Delta smelt and the San Joaquin Valley.  Until I hear what you have to say about that I will assume that I know a fuck of a lot more about it than you do.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14032305 - 02/26/11 07:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

You've shown you clearly know fuck all over and over.

hahahaah.....

Limited qualifier!

:lol:

i am thinking of a word, it starts with an 'im' and rhymes with cecile.

Those issues are cumquats compared to what we really have on our hands.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14032341 - 02/26/11 07:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
You still can't explain why fox news isn't covering the ogalla issue. It is clearly incredibly important. Were talking about food and huge potential increases in food prices(dare I say availability)




:facepalm:  Because nobody but you gives a fuck?  You know who else isn't covering it?  Everybody.
Quote:



:facepalm:

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html

The US Geological Survey certainly has groundwater depletion as a huge issue, but they aren't anyone.

http://www.ogallala.ars.usda.gov/links.php

The US Department of Agriculture have made a website specifically to deal with the Ogalla.

Look, be honest. Why do you think you can talk out of your ass over and over?

i am fucking done with you man, clearly, you belong in the mute bin.




There is no excuse.



Which is why you are not the director of programming for anything.
Quote:



This is but one issue that might affect us in the near future which fox news hasn't even touched upon.

Thats fucking corrupted.

There are dozens dozens more that you can't even fathom yet because you haven't been properly educated on the subject or tried to actually learn about environmentalism.




Tell us more about the Delta smelt and the San Joaquin Valley.  Until I hear what you have to say about that I will assume that I know a fuck of a lot more about it than you do.




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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14033057 - 02/26/11 09:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
You still can't explain why fox news isn't covering the ogalla issue. It is clearly incredibly important. Were talking about food and huge potential increases in food prices(dare I say availability)

There is no excuse.





Not sexy.  No ratings potential.

Nobody's going to cover it, outside of a 3AM NPR segment or two.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: TGRR]
    #14035392 - 02/27/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

When has NPR ever been on at 3am?  They replay the same news all day long. Not that I'm listening anymore.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflineYrat
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Icelander]
    #14040460 - 02/28/11 06:04 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
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Strike The Root

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OfflineTri High
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14040712 - 02/28/11 08:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

HAHA
Fox news made a mistake.

Looks like a deliberate mistake.  God damn your head is hard.

I think we should boycott that place.  Seriously.  If they're really fucking around like that and they call themselves a news station.  Do you know how many old people watch this bullshit and get their opinions from it?

God damn, America.  G.D.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Tri High] * 1
    #14042272 - 02/28/11 01:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tri High said:
HAHA
Fox news made a mistake.

Looks like a deliberate mistake.  God damn your head is hard.




Why would anybody make such an easily exposable error on purpose?  They are fully aware that there is an army of retarded Soros apes monitoring their every word.  Deliberately making that mistake would be far more idiotic than the mistake itself.  Stop projecting.
Quote:



I think we should boycott that place.  Seriously.  If they're really fucking around like that and they call themselves a news station.  Do you know how many old people watch this bullshit and get their opinions from it?




Don't know, don't care.  Boycott it all you want.  I do.

Say, you know who calls themselves a newspaper?  The Village Voice, that's who.

Quote:

Here is the pertinent part of Erdoso's column today:

    "Last weekend rallies were held in all 50 states in support of the teachers' union in Wisconsin. And at the Wisconsin state capitol, at least 70,000 people came out on Saturday to protest Governor Walker's attempt to break the union.

    Sounds like a big deal, right? Hundreds of thousands of people turned out on behalf of teachers in one state who were holding out for collective bargaining rights, despite opposition from Republicans and from bigtime "liberal" columnists who also consider schoolteachers grossly overcompensated....

    You wouldn't know it, though, from the report of Professor William Jacobson at Legal Insurrection, who flatly declared, "50-State Union Protest Falls Far Short Of Predicted Turnout."

Edroso went on to list some rallies I failed to include, none of which were sizable other than one supposedly large rally in San Francisco:

    "Also consider the other rallies Jacobson excluded: San Francisco, for example, reported 50,000 attendees."

There's a problem here for Edroso.

The link which supposedly confirmed there were 50,000 people in San Francisco actually stated that there were only 2000 people at the San Francisco rally and that there were 50,000 people nationwide (outside Madison).  This confirms my estimation that MoveOn.org and the unions failed to bring out significant numbers except in Madison.

In fact, this estimation was half my estimation, so surely that was some right-winger trying to smear the labor movement, right?

Wrong.  The source for the 50,000 nationwide number was a MoveOn.org spokesman interviewed by the liberal AlterNet website:





I DENOUNCE THE DECEPTION!


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14044420 - 02/28/11 07:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you're quoting a blog run by a law professor at a public school (PARASITE) who has no sources to dispute the crowd estimates except his own reading of other blogs.

you're just mad because the protest in WI alone was bigger than anything the KOCH baggers were able to do last year....


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Taco Chef]
    #14044461 - 02/28/11 07:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Fox makes LOTS of "mistakes".

Like referring to Mark Foley as a democrat when he got busted kiddie-fiddling.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: Taco Chef]
    #14044508 - 02/28/11 07:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

novumorganum said:
you're quoting a blog run by a law professor at a public school (PARASITE) who has no sources to dispute the crowd estimates except his own reading of other blogs.

you're just mad because the protest in WI alone was bigger than anything the KOCH baggers were able to do last year....




Actually if you had READ THE POST YOU WOULD SEE THAT IT WAS THE OTHER JACKASSES OWN LINK THAT CONTRADICTED WHAT HE SAID IT SAID!  Links at the link.  Try it.  It's amazing.

Something I do a lot here myself.

I'm not mad about the size of the Wisconsin kerfuffle.  I would expect quite a turnout there.  Kinda odd how many buses came to town from out of state though, isn't it?


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14044518 - 02/28/11 07:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Kinda odd how many buses came to town from out of state though, isn't it?




Not really.  The teabaggers are good for that, too.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: TGRR]
    #14044540 - 02/28/11 07:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What's a teabagger?

I think the local Tea Party events stay pretty much local.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14044558 - 02/28/11 07:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What's a teabagger?

I think the local Tea Party events stay pretty much local.




1.  Either someone who lets the Koch brothers dip their bits down their collective throats, or a garden variety pervert.  In this case, it's the former.

2.  Had a teabagger rally here.  Buses pulled in from Phoenix for a solid hour.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: TGRR]
    #14044571 - 02/28/11 07:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Where?  When?


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14044593 - 02/28/11 07:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Where?  When?




Tucson, when the quitter from Alaska came by before the 2010 elections.

Didn't help.  Jesse Kelly still lost.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: TGRR]
    #14044649 - 02/28/11 07:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:

2.  Had a teabagger rally here.  Buses pulled in from Phoenix for a solid hour.



This one?

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=13298246

Quote:

TUCSON, AZ (KOLD) - The General Election is less than a month away and the Tucson Tea Party is trying to get people fired up.

The group held a large rally at Hi-Corbett Field Saturday, with thousands in attendance.

Dozens of booths were set up to give people information on candidates and ballot propositions.

Organizer Trent Humphries encourages people to get involved, learn about what's in the ballots and vote.

Speakers at the rally included Senator John McCain, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeau and Congressional District 8 Candidate Jesse Kelly.





Busses rolled in for a solid hour, huh?  Trucking all those astroturf millions thousands, huh?


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14044692 - 02/28/11 07:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:

2.  Had a teabagger rally here.  Buses pulled in from Phoenix for a solid hour.



This one?

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=13298246

Quote:

TUCSON, AZ (KOLD) - The General Election is less than a month away and the Tucson Tea Party is trying to get people fired up.

The group held a large rally at Hi-Corbett Field Saturday, with thousands in attendance.

Dozens of booths were set up to give people information on candidates and ballot propositions.

Organizer Trent Humphries encourages people to get involved, learn about what's in the ballots and vote.

Speakers at the rally included Senator John McCain, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeau and Congressional District 8 Candidate Jesse Kelly.





Busses rolled in for a solid hour, huh?  Trucking all those astroturf millions thousands, huh?




Thousands.  They were hoping for a hundred thousand, and failed miserably, even with all the "extra help".

Of course, she couldn't pull in two dozen people here, after the Giffords thing.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: TGRR]
    #14044704 - 02/28/11 07:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So I guess that thing you said about the solid hour of astroturf buses was bullshit, right?


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14044752 - 02/28/11 07:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
So I guess that thing you said about the solid hour of astroturf buses was bullshit, right?




Nope.


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: FOX news deceptively edits video from 2011 CPAC [Re: TGRR]
    #14050331 - 03/01/11 06:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

fox news is funny, none of this surprises me one bit. how sad is that


--------------------



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