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Offlinejimbotron
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Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax
    #13967682 - 02/15/11 01:43 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war

Nobody could have predicted that an ex-pat with a grudge might try to gin up a war. (Oh, wait...)

Still, bygones are bygones, and it's not like anybody thought 'Curveball' was full of shit from the very beginning. (Oh, wait...) And there was certainly no contradictory evidence. (Oh, wait...)

Anyway, wars are like the cap of a plastic coke bottle, sometimes you're just not lucky. Sorry, play again, America!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: jimbotron]
    #13967728 - 02/15/11 01:52 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

You're sorry that Saddam is gone?  Do you believe that Curveball singlehandedly determined our policy?  Do you believe that you were ever consulted?  Do you believe Saddam was in compliance with the terms of the ceasefire/surrender agreement?


--------------------


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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13968687 - 02/15/11 04:19 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Do you believe that Curveball singlehandedly determined our policy?




No, I believe that George Bush singlehandedly determined our policy; when he says "Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out" I take the man at his word. I don't trust him on too many other things, but when it comes to bellowing threats, I'm inclined to believe him -- especially because I don't think he was drinking at this point.

I do believe that Curveball's "testimony" was repeatedly cited by the Bush Administration as grounds for invading Iraq. Do you disagree? And will you EVER admit that this was either a massive fraud or the worst fuckup of all time?

Quote:

Do you believe Saddam was in compliance with the terms of the ceasefire/surrender agreement?




Do you believe that we've found WMDs in Iraq? Do you believe that I have some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you? Do you even understand what this article was about?


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: jimbotron]
    #13968837 - 02/15/11 04:50 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Frankly I'm a little shocked... that he admitted it. I mean right after Bush is being charged in several countries he's tried to visit for admitting to torture this man is admitting to a fraud that lead to the deaths of many people. How do these dipshits get so brazen? They voluntarily admit to crimes, are they retarded?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: jimbotron]
    #13969002 - 02/15/11 05:28 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
Quote:

Do you believe that Curveball singlehandedly determined our policy?




No, I believe that George Bush singlehandedly determined our policy; when he says "Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out" I take the man at his word. I don't trust him on too many other things, but when it comes to bellowing threats, I'm inclined to believe him -- especially because I don't think he was drinking at this point.




Then you clearly have zero understanding of how the US government makes decisions and acts.  Zero.
Quote:



I do believe that Curveball's "testimony" was repeatedly cited by the Bush Administration as grounds for invading Iraq. Do you disagree? And will you EVER admit that this was either a massive fraud or the worst fuckup of all time?



  No.  Because Bill Fucking Clinton also believed the same thing and he did so before Curveball ever opened his piehole.  Further, it could not be fraud because you were never asked, that is you were in no position to be influenced.  Nor do I believe that it was a mistake.  The mistake was ever allowing Saddam to have a reprieve at all.
Quote:



Quote:

Do you believe Saddam was in compliance with the terms of the ceasefire/surrender agreement?




Do you believe that we've found WMDs in Iraq? Do you believe that I have some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you? Do you even understand what this article was about?




There were some found.  But my question to you is do you understand that WMDs were irrelevant?  I don't care.  He was compelled to completely open all of his facilities to inspection at any time.  He didn't do it.  He had his soldiers target our planes in contradiction of the agreement.  Clinton bombed him before anybody ever heard of Curveball.

Why are you so vehemently supporting one of the worst tyrants in modern history?  Family ties?


--------------------


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13972180 - 02/16/11 05:03 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

There were some found.  But my question to you is do you understand that WMDs were irrelevant?  I don't care.  He was compelled to completely open all of his facilities to inspection at any time.  He didn't do it.  He had his soldiers target our planes in contradiction of the agreement.  Clinton bombed him before anybody ever heard of Curveball.

Why are you so vehemently supporting one of the worst tyrants in modern history?  Family ties?




From my recollection, WMD's were indeed relevant- they were the impetus for the fear frenzy bush was trying to stoke and connect to "terorism" to justify the invasion politically.

I would have felt much better about the endeavor if he had made a legal case for it rather than the bullshit he did.  Regardless of what anyone else thought, knew, or divined, the WMD evidence was shitty, and there was little evidence he was a threat to us domestically or a threat to our just interests that needed resolution on the short or medium term.

By the way, Zappa:  Do you know whether the surrender agreement gave the US the power to enforce it unilaterally?  I would imagine it would have, but then again, given how they always try to get a bunch of countries to participate, maybe not.  Do you know?  Were their any particular requirements of the US before any particular enforcement action could be taken unilaterally?  I forget if there was, or if the UN move was simply politically helpful and legally preferable.


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: johnm214]
    #13972464 - 02/16/11 07:38 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Bingo. Looks like Bush was just as much of a liar and a crook as any liberal. But those who have to defend their choice rarely have the guts for a close inspection of these things. You can guess why.:pope: 

Honesty and integrity is not a big factor in politics. Getting what you want in any way possible is. This goes for the voters as much as for the politician.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: Icelander]
    #13972516 - 02/16/11 08:04 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

the question should be, what weren't they lying about.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: johnm214]
    #13972817 - 02/16/11 09:48 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

There were some found.  But my question to you is do you understand that WMDs were irrelevant?  I don't care.  He was compelled to completely open all of his facilities to inspection at any time.  He didn't do it.  He had his soldiers target our planes in contradiction of the agreement.  Clinton bombed him before anybody ever heard of Curveball.

Why are you so vehemently supporting one of the worst tyrants in modern history?  Family ties?




From my recollection, WMD's were indeed relevant- they were the impetus for the fear frenzy bush was trying to stoke and connect to "terorism" to justify the invasion politically.



Once again you continue to ignore the fact that neither you nor any other American civilian was asked what you thought.  Your opinion was utterly and completely irrelevant.  The relevant opinions belonged to members of Congress, especially those on the intelligence committees.  I believe the intelligence committee members voted 100% in favor.  That also included Senator Hillary Clinton, whose husband had been President himself and who might have known a thing or two about it.
Quote:



I would have felt much better about the endeavor if he had made a legal case for it rather than the bullshit he did.  Regardless of what anyone else thought, knew, or divined, the WMD evidence was shitty, and there was little evidence he was a threat to us domestically or a threat to our just interests that needed resolution on the short or medium term.




Do you not consider Saddam's attempt to assassinate an American President a threat? 

Here's another threat that continues to be ignored.  That is the threat that if we do not enforce our treaties and agreements, including cease fire, there is no law at all.  You also continue to have a severe memory lapse regarding just exactly what was going on in the UN regarding ending sanctions as a result of Saddam's bribery of 3/5ths of the UN security council, among other members.
Quote:



By the way, Zappa:  Do you know whether the surrender agreement gave the US the power to enforce it unilaterally?  I would imagine it would have, but then again, given how they always try to get a bunch of countries to participate, maybe not.  Do you know?  Were their any particular requirements of the US before any particular enforcement action could be taken unilaterally?  I forget if there was, or if the UN move was simply politically helpful and legally preferable.




I don't know.  Given that several dozen other nations were involved I would say that the question is moot.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: Grav]
    #13972826 - 02/16/11 09:50 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
the question should be, what weren't they lying about.



You know what they weren't lying about?  That 19 Muslim fanatics hi-jacked 4 airliners and flew 3 of them into buildings.


--------------------


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13972955 - 02/16/11 10:26 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
the question should be, what weren't they lying about.



You know what they weren't lying about?  That 19 Muslim fanatics hi-jacked 4 airliners and flew 3 of them into buildings.




too bad the evidence doesn't support your theory.  denial is a bitch huh.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: Grav] * 2
    #13973141 - 02/16/11 11:11 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
the question should be, what weren't they lying about.



You know what they weren't lying about?  That 19 Muslim fanatics hi-jacked 4 airliners and flew 3 of them into buildings.




too bad the evidence doesn't support your theory.  denial is a bitch huh.



You should check yourself in.  Somewhere.


--------------------


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InvisibleGI_Luvmoney
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: jimbotron]
    #13979647 - 02/17/11 04:05 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.
Poison gas and biological weapons were found in Iraq. Sadam used poison gas on the Kurds and against Iran."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002



"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002


--------------------


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Offlinelines
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
    #13984885 - 02/18/11 01:53 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

I'm more upset with Powell for listening to curveball than I am with curveball for lying.


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Invisiblemisterogerz


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: lines]
    #13990042 - 02/19/11 01:32 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
the question should be, what weren't they lying about.



You know what they weren't lying about?  That 19 Muslim fanatics hi-jacked 4 airliners and flew 3 of them into buildings.





Osama bin Laden: "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States."

On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Dick Cheney was running several war games in the north eastern portion of the United States. These drills included many hijacking scenarios, where commercial jets were hijacked and flown into buildings. At the same time Cheney had arranged for a drill involving a bio attack on NY. This resulted in FEMA setting up a command post on pier 29 in New York on September 10th.

Some of these drill were scheduled for later in the year but Dick Cheney rescheduled them and made sure that they all took place on the same day. This was unprecedented.

The war games involved live fly exercises, and electronic drills where fake blips were placed on radar screens. Cheney was in charge of a communications system that superseded those of the FAA, NORAD and NEADS. Some of the drills possibly included remote control planes.

Dick Cheney is member of the Project for a New American Century. This is an organization of political ideologues (neocons) who wrote detailed plans than included invading Afghanistan, Iraq & the middle east. Their goal is ensure America is the only super power in the world. You can research their work for it is public information. Members of PNAC include Donald Rumsfeld and more than ten members of the Bush foreign & defense policy teams. In their documentation they openly state that the public and Congress would not accept their agenda and that the transition would be a slow one “absent a catalyzing and catastrophic event like a New Pearl Harbor!”

Cheney was in a position to have the air defense agencies stand down.

From from September 2000 to June 2001, 67 planes steered off course. All 67 times our air defense systems worked as they should, and interceptors were launched. You may remember this happening when Payne Stewart and his crew died in flight. On September 11th, 2001, when Dick Cheney was running his war games, 4 jet airliners were supposedly hijacked, and all our systems that have worked flawlessly 67 times that year, failed. Coincidence?

While these facts seem to incriminate Cheney, all you can do within reason is ask these questions:

    *
      Was Cheney in a position to have the defense systems stand down?
    *
      Did Cheney, a member of PNAC, a group who expressed the fact that their agenda would be better accepted if we had a “new Pearl Harbor”, have a motive? Did he benefit from the events?
    *
      Could the events have been an accident? Could the drills have gone bad?
    *
      Why did the 9/11 Commission Report omit the information about the drills, making only 1 mention of them in a single footnote. The report only mentioned 1 drill, and falsely described it as a drill to defend against Russian Bombers. In the age of ICBMs, are we to believe that we have to practice defending the nation against Russian bombers in the north eastern portion of the US?
    *
      Why have the news media neglected to inform the public of Cheney’s actions that day?
    *
      Why did Bush and Cheney insist on being questioned by the commission together, without being taped, without taking an oath and with no records kept?
    *
      If you did not know this information, you have to ask yourself why it is not common knowledge? You also have to ask what else don’t you know?
    *
      In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story.

Use your common sense. Do you think the global intelligence powers failed this badly? Do you think men who could barely pilot a 2 seat plane can navigate across several states and find their target? Are you that gullible? Have some self respect, and think before you believe what you are told.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html


--------------------
:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:


Edited by misterogerz (02/19/11 01:57 PM)


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Offline4896744
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: misterogerz] * 1
    #13990215 - 02/19/11 02:09 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

misterogerz said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
the question should be, what weren't they lying about.



You know what they weren't lying about?  That 19 Muslim fanatics hi-jacked 4 airliners and flew 3 of them into buildings.





Osama bin Laden: "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States."

On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Dick Cheney was running several war games in the north eastern portion of the United States. These drills included many hijacking scenarios, where commercial jets were hijacked and flown into buildings. At the same time Cheney had arranged for a drill involving a bio attack on NY. This resulted in FEMA setting up a command post on pier 29 in New York on September 10th.

Some of these drill were scheduled for later in the year but Dick Cheney rescheduled them and made sure that they all took place on the same day. This was unprecedented.

The war games involved live fly exercises, and electronic drills where fake blips were placed on radar screens. Cheney was in charge of a communications system that superseded those of the FAA, NORAD and NEADS. Some of the drills possibly included remote control planes.

Dick Cheney is member of the Project for a New American Century. This is an organization of political ideologues (neocons) who wrote detailed plans than included invading Afghanistan, Iraq & the middle east. Their goal is ensure America is the only super power in the world. You can research their work for it is public information. Members of PNAC include Donald Rumsfeld and more than ten members of the Bush foreign & defense policy teams. In their documentation they openly state that the public and Congress would not accept their agenda and that the transition would be a slow one “absent a catalyzing and catastrophic event like a New Pearl Harbor!”

Cheney was in a position to have the air defense agencies stand down.

From from September 2000 to June 2001, 67 planes steered off course. All 67 times our air defense systems worked as they should, and interceptors were launched. You may remember this happening when Payne Stewart and his crew died in flight. On September 11th, 2001, when Dick Cheney was running his war games, 4 jet airliners were supposedly hijacked, and all our systems that have worked flawlessly 67 times that year, failed. Coincidence?

While these facts seem to incriminate Cheney, all you can do within reason is ask these questions:

    *
      Was Cheney in a position to have the defense systems stand down?
    *
      Did Cheney, a member of PNAC, a group who expressed the fact that their agenda would be better accepted if we had a “new Pearl Harbor”, have a motive? Did he benefit from the events?
    *
      Could the events have been an accident? Could the drills have gone bad?
    *
      Why did the 9/11 Commission Report omit the information about the drills, making only 1 mention of them in a single footnote. The report only mentioned 1 drill, and falsely described it as a drill to defend against Russian Bombers. In the age of ICBMs, are we to believe that we have to practice defending the nation against Russian bombers in the north eastern portion of the US?
    *
      Why have the news media neglected to inform the public of Cheney’s actions that day?
    *
      Why did Bush and Cheney insist on being questioned by the commission together, without being taped, without taking an oath and with no records kept?
    *
      If you did not know this information, you have to ask yourself why it is not common knowledge? You also have to ask what else don’t you know?
    *
      In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story.

Use your common sense. Do you think the global intelligence powers failed this badly? Do you think men who could barely pilot a 2 seat plane can navigate across several states and find their target? Are you that gullible? Have some self respect, and think before you believe what you are told.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html




Is this supposed to be serious?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: 4896744] * 1
    #13990299 - 02/19/11 02:33 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

So, misterogerz, if I understand you correctly you are claiming that bin laden denied involvement in 9/11 and no other real news outlet on the face of the planet picked this up? Including all the non-conspiracy non-mainstream media and international outlets like Al Jazeera?

I'm not reading the rest of that post.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club


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Invisiblemisterogerz


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13990412 - 02/19/11 03:01 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
So, misterogerz, if I understand you correctly you are claiming that bin laden denied involvement in 9/11 and no other real news outlet on the face of the planet picked this up? Including all the non-conspiracy non-mainstream media and international outlets like Al Jazeera?

I'm not reading the rest of that post.



CNN and Al Jazeera bro :awesomenod:http://articles.cnn.com/2001-09-16/us/inv.binladen.denial_1_bin-laden-taliban-supreme-leader-mullah-mohammed-omar?_s=PM:US
just days later as a matter of fact :strokebeard2:
and incase u didnt figure it out, just the first paragraph i posted was osama bin laden's words, the later paragraphs are reports on chenney


--------------------
:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:


Edited by misterogerz (02/19/11 05:13 PM)


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: misterogerz]
    #13991737 - 02/19/11 07:25 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

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misterogerz said:
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zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
the question should be, what weren't they lying about.



You know what they weren't lying about?  That 19 Muslim fanatics hi-jacked 4 airliners and flew 3 of them into buildings.





Osama bin Laden: "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks. ... The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States."

On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Dick Cheney was running several war games in the north eastern portion of the United States. These drills included many hijacking scenarios, where commercial jets were hijacked and flown into buildings. At the same time Cheney had arranged for a drill involving a bio attack on NY. This resulted in FEMA setting up a command post on pier 29 in New York on September 10th.

Some of these drill were scheduled for later in the year but Dick Cheney rescheduled them and made sure that they all took place on the same day. This was unprecedented.

The war games involved live fly exercises, and electronic drills where fake blips were placed on radar screens. Cheney was in charge of a communications system that superseded those of the FAA, NORAD and NEADS. Some of the drills possibly included remote control planes.

Dick Cheney is member of the Project for a New American Century. This is an organization of political ideologues (neocons) who wrote detailed plans than included invading Afghanistan, Iraq & the middle east. Their goal is ensure America is the only super power in the world. You can research their work for it is public information. Members of PNAC include Donald Rumsfeld and more than ten members of the Bush foreign & defense policy teams. In their documentation they openly state that the public and Congress would not accept their agenda and that the transition would be a slow one “absent a catalyzing and catastrophic event like a New Pearl Harbor!”

Cheney was in a position to have the air defense agencies stand down.

From from September 2000 to June 2001, 67 planes steered off course. All 67 times our air defense systems worked as they should, and interceptors were launched. You may remember this happening when Payne Stewart and his crew died in flight. On September 11th, 2001, when Dick Cheney was running his war games, 4 jet airliners were supposedly hijacked, and all our systems that have worked flawlessly 67 times that year, failed. Coincidence?

While these facts seem to incriminate Cheney, all you can do within reason is ask these questions:

    *
      Was Cheney in a position to have the defense systems stand down?
    *
      Did Cheney, a member of PNAC, a group who expressed the fact that their agenda would be better accepted if we had a “new Pearl Harbor”, have a motive? Did he benefit from the events?
    *
      Could the events have been an accident? Could the drills have gone bad?
    *
      Why did the 9/11 Commission Report omit the information about the drills, making only 1 mention of them in a single footnote. The report only mentioned 1 drill, and falsely described it as a drill to defend against Russian Bombers. In the age of ICBMs, are we to believe that we have to practice defending the nation against Russian bombers in the north eastern portion of the US?
    *
      Why have the news media neglected to inform the public of Cheney’s actions that day?
    *
      Why did Bush and Cheney insist on being questioned by the commission together, without being taped, without taking an oath and with no records kept?
    *
      If you did not know this information, you have to ask yourself why it is not common knowledge? You also have to ask what else don’t you know?
    *
      In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story.

Use your common sense. Do you think the global intelligence powers failed this badly? Do you think men who could barely pilot a 2 seat plane can navigate across several states and find their target? Are you that gullible? Have some self respect, and think before you believe what you are told.

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/9_11_facts.html






wow, serious fucking shit. that shit is heavy, real serious accusations there. but it was muslims that did it, whether Cheney helped or not it was muslims who hi jacked the planes, no american would suicide bomb himself, not even the craziest prisoner in the craziest prison who would kill any person that looked at him wrong.



but anyway, Cheney and Bush were good friends, so you could say(lol). To me Obama could never be a worst president than bush, no matter how bad he is. Bush lead an 8 year war against a group, with Cheney's help, and never even got the bastard. they killed more civilians in Afghanistan than Taliban(though most reports don't admit this) and spent 100 billion dollars a year on the war. this amount over 8 years helped us with this major deficit, or would this not be more money owed to the treasury?

I don't know, I know wars are very expensive, but for 100 billion a year, I'd imagine we would have won, or very much wiped out the taliban from the face of the middle east we occupied. Not bombed thousands of civilians to leave most taliban strong holds un harmed, so they could run into cities blowing them self up every day.


so you have a point.....


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The point to meditating is to feel the same when you are meditation as when you aren't. To be balanced inside and out. Difficult to do when being aware of breath and sensation. However, not impossible. Feeling ok about yourself at all times seems to be a great difficult skill to master. The concept so simple a snail could understand it. To practice it some of the greatest Albert Einstein type minds couldn't master it.

It's like the trick to human problems is to be even more human. Not less human but as human as possible, only understanding human nature.

Understanding subtleties is hard. What is subtle? Subtle is powerful. Atoms are subtle. Atoms make up everything we are. Understanding subtleties is one of the hardest parts of life.


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: imachavel]
    #13991900 - 02/19/11 07:57 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
no american would suicide bomb himself, not even the craziest prisoner in the craziest prison who would kill any person that looked at him wrong.




just cuz u wouldnt doesnt mean everyone else wouldnt, think about school shootings and other crazy shootings and events where the person either killed themselves after they finished or got shot by police, same thing, minus the bomb:shrug:


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Invisiblemisterogerz


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: misterogerz]
    #13996380 - 02/20/11 04:03 PM (9 years, 4 months ago)

no one even questioned how we went from afghan to iraq?


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13999329 - 02/21/11 01:45 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


Once again you continue to ignore the fact that neither you nor any other American civilian was asked what you thought.  Your opinion was utterly and completely irrelevant.  The relevant opinions belonged to members of Congress, especially those on the intelligence committees.  I believe the intelligence committee members voted 100% in favor.  That also included Senator Hillary Clinton, whose husband had been President himself and who might have known a thing or two about it.





I don't get your argument except as to the extent its simply an appeal to authority- particularly silly given the republican means the constitution gives the electorate to control the armed forces and the decleration of war. I've little doubt their positions were anything but political stances taken for convieniance, especially in light of the public sentiment and approval.  It may suck for the Bush administration that people left him out to dry when things got messy, but that really is neither hear nor there. 


Quote:



Do you not consider Saddam's attempt to assassinate an American President a threat? 




hmm, I hadn't considered that, actually.  That's a good point.  I don't know much about this issue though, so I can't really say much.  Do you think this justified him being a threat of such a magnitude that the decision to invade a second time was a defensive act?


Quote:

That is the threat that if we do not enforce our treaties and agreements, including cease fire, there is no law at all.  You also continue to have a severe memory lapse regarding just exactly what was going on in the UN regarding ending sanctions as a result of Saddam's bribery of 3/5ths of the UN security council, among other members.




I agree about the enforcement of treaties and so forth, but I don't see this as being relevant to the issue as I'm aware of any  concession from Iraq that would allow the invasion.  If their is such an agreement, I'd like to hear of it- the legal issue seems pretty poorl covered in the media


Quote:

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By the way, Zappa:  Do you know whether the surrender agreement gave the US the power to enforce it unilaterally?  I would imagine it would have, but then again, given how they always try to get a bunch of countries to participate, maybe not.  Do you know?  Were their any particular requirements of the US before any particular enforcement action could be taken unilaterally?  I forget if there was, or if the UN move was simply politically helpful and legally preferable.




I don't know.  Given that several dozen other nations were involved I would say that the question is moot.





Not really, one of them had to have justification for the war, or all collectively, or the thing was illegal.  I'm actually wondering whether their even was a surrender agreement.  If that's so, the resolutions granting the power to enforce via force the UN's orders would be the only persisting authority the coalition or US would seem able to rely upon to justify the second invasion as a continuation of the first.

I just can't find any good treatment of this highly interesting and relevant point.  Wikipedia touches on it a bit but I can't substantiate their statements, and they are conclusory anyways, without any explanation of the legalities.



Quote:

misterogerz said:


Osama bin Laden: "I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States"





Well, That settles that!  The guy said he didn't do it, I guess we can call off the hunt.

And given that you have thiese great refrences... (wait, what evidence did you have of this statement?)
Quote:



      In the years following the event, have you ever heard from the people who you were told committed these acts? Or, have you only been told why this happened by the people who want you to believe their story.





Hey, that is something!  I mean, after they bombed the USS Cole and the embassies, Osama and friends came over with a powerpoint presentation to make sure I understood what they did and why.  Hmmm.... after the towers fell, Osama didn't stop by any more... Smells Fishy!

OMG!  I just realized, Charlie manson never explained himself to me either! I only heard from those lawyers and cops who 'want me to believe" he and his buddies were meanies... Was that whole thing a hoax as well?

Quote:

Use your common sense. Do you think the global intelligence powers failed this badly?




Failed how, exactly?  What was so unconceivable?  People hijack plains all the time and fly them around.  Its not like getting a few guys onto a plane is such an overt act that the FBI would be tipped off necessarily (at least not then, now that they ban toothpaste its another matter altogether)


Quote:


Do you think men who could barely pilot a 2 seat plane can navigate across several states and find their target? Are you that gullible? Have some self respect, and think before you believe what you are told.





Why are you insulting your audience?  Why do you presume I don't think?  Actually, I figure its probably just because its easier to argue against your straw man "ignorant fool" than someone who demands more than menacing open-ended questions or youtube videos with spooky music to conclude whatever bizarre nonsense your pushing here.


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Re: Curveball admits Saddam's WMD were a hoax [Re: johnm214]
    #13999863 - 02/21/11 07:57 AM (9 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:


Once again you continue to ignore the fact that neither you nor any other American civilian was asked what you thought.  Your opinion was utterly and completely irrelevant.  The relevant opinions belonged to members of Congress, especially those on the intelligence committees.  I believe the intelligence committee members voted 100% in favor.  That also included Senator Hillary Clinton, whose husband had been President himself and who might have known a thing or two about it.





I don't get your argument except as to the extent its simply an appeal to authority- particularly silly given the republican means the constitution gives the electorate to control the armed forces and the decleration of war. I've little doubt their positions were anything but political stances taken for convieniance, especially in light of the public sentiment and approval.  It may suck for the Bush administration that people left him out to dry when things got messy, but that really is neither hear nor there.




The point is that they had no reason to intentionally deceive you.  The public was not involved in the decision.  You were completely irrelevant.  The relevant people they had to convince were Congressmembers.  Not you or news media or anybody else.  Do you get it yet
Quote:



Quote:



Do you not consider Saddam's attempt to assassinate an American President a threat? 




hmm, I hadn't considered that, actually.  That's a good point.  I don't know much about this issue though, so I can't really say much.  Do you think this justified him being a threat of such a magnitude that the decision to invade a second time was a defensive act?




As I have stated many dozens of times it is not my opinion that this was a second invasion, just a continuation of the first which had been on hold pending Saddam's compliance with the terms of surrender.  Over the course of more than 10 years e did not comply.
Quote:




Quote:

That is the threat that if we do not enforce our treaties and agreements, including cease fire, there is no law at all.  You also continue to have a severe memory lapse regarding just exactly what was going on in the UN regarding ending sanctions as a result of Saddam's bribery of 3/5ths of the UN security council, among other members.




I agree about the enforcement of treaties and so forth, but I don't see this as being relevant to the issue as I'm aware of any  concession from Iraq that would allow the invasion.  If their is such an agreement, I'd like to hear of it- the legal issue seems pretty poorl covered in the media.




Whether adequately covered by the piece of shit media or not I have been saying it for years.  He had over 10 years to comply and wouldn't stop playing his stupid shell game with inspections.  Those weren't his only violations, either.  Even Clinton dropped some fresh bomb loads on him for violations.
Quote:




Quote:

Quote:

By the way, Zappa:  Do you know whether the surrender agreement gave the US the power to enforce it unilaterally?  I would imagine it would have, but then again, given how they always try to get a bunch of countries to participate, maybe not.  Do you know?  Were their any particular requirements of the US before any particular enforcement action could be taken unilaterally?  I forget if there was, or if the UN move was simply politically helpful and legally preferable.




I don't know.  Given that several dozen other nations were involved I would say that the question is moot.





Not really, one of them had to have justification for the war, or all collectively, or the thing was illegal.  I'm actually wondering whether their even was a surrender agreement.  If that's so, the resolutions granting the power to enforce via force the UN's orders would be the only persisting authority the coalition or US would seem able to rely upon to justify the second invasion as a continuation of the first.




The UN doesn't really have any authority over anybody.  And yes, there was a surrender agreement.  Or cessation of histilities agreement or whatever you want to call it.  Part of that agreement was unfettered free access of everything for inspections.  Also no-fly zones and other things.


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