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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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iran and Nuclear Technology
    #13958281 - 02/13/11 09:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Apparently, the president of iran believes in the twelfth imam,a holy prophet that is going to come and instill islamic law on all nations of the world.

However, in order for him to come, there must be great bloodshed and war.

Since iran has funded most terroroism in the last 30 years, hezbollah to name one, do you think iran is trying to antagonize the west with their nuclear program to create an attack and make for all out war - thereby bringing on the twelfth imam....

My answere is yes and 4 rounds of sanctions means that sanctions will not work, particularly if you take into account the fact that the leader has this as a primary objective - a war and bloodshed, the preconditions of the return of the twelfth imam.

War seems to be the only answer, i just hope the damn revolution takes place before it is nessecary for this to happen.

Here is a good video on the subject.

http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Invisibledespisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc: Flag
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13958347 - 02/13/11 09:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:

Since iran has funded most terrorism in the last 30 years, hezbollah to name one, do you think iran is trying to antagonize the west with their nuclear program





That's excatly what they are doing.  They want nuclear weapons to say "F You" to Israel and the West.  I would have no objection to nuclear energy, but only the naive would say they want nuclear energy only for domestic purposes.

Iran using nuclear weapons is a whole other matter.  I doubt they are chopping at the bit to use them if they never got functional nukes.  In my opinion it would lead to a deadly stand off, and I doubt any American president would go for a preemptive attack against Iran because they would be giving Iran excatly what they wanted and give them justification to attack.  I don't remember the Wikileak document name but one stated that Iran having nukes made their Arab neighbors just as uneasy as some America and her allies.

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OfflineEdgeChaos
Still a stranger

Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 2,071
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13958348 - 02/13/11 09:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

This sounds familiar... where did I....:strokebeard3:

Mark 13:8: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

1st Thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Matthew 24:6:
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.


Luke 21:28: And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



Oh yeah! The Christian Bible.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13958399 - 02/13/11 10:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EdgeChaos said:
This sounds familiar... where did I....:strokebeard3:

Mark 13:8: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom
This has already happen. WW1 WW2...the messiah never came...don't worry man, hell doesn't exist!! Life is actually pretty sweet thereafter.


1st Thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Already has happened, WW1 and WW2. After WW1, people said peace and saftey then World war 2(WW2) happened...and nop...no messiah....

Matthew 24:6:
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Wars have happened already plenty of times in the last 2000 years......


Luke 21:28: And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Wars came and gone, horrible wars and redemption never came.....:cheers:





Oh yeah! The Christian Bible.




--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: despisedicon]
    #13958413 - 02/13/11 10:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:

Since iran has funded most terrorism in the last 30 years, hezbollah to name one, do you think iran is trying to antagonize the west with their nuclear program





That's excatly what they are doing.  They want nuclear weapons to say "F You" to Israel and the West.  I would have no objection to nuclear energy, but only the naive would say they want nuclear energy only for domestic purposes.

Iran using nuclear weapons is a whole other matter.  I doubt they are chopping at the bit to use them if they never got functional nukes.  In my opinion it would lead to a deadly stand off, and I doubt any American president would go for a preemptive attack against Iran because they would be giving Iran excatly what they wanted and give them justification to attack.  I don't remember the Wikileak document name but one stated that Iran having nukes made their Arab neighbors just as uneasy as some America and her allies.





The fear is that they will hand off a dirty bomb to one of their terrorist cells....not so much whether they will use it.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Invisibledespisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc: Flag
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13958415 - 02/13/11 10:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Forgive me for stating the obvious but Christianity has calmed down quite considerably over the past as opposed to Islam which is due for a reformation.

To imply that today's sects of Islam and today's sects of Christianity both exhibit the same level of violence is absurd.  If you call for the death of cartoonists for example who lampoon your religion and rarely any individuals in this religion come forward to point out how stupid it is to do so because of fear this religion is lacking an enlightenment.

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Invisibledespisedicon
Stranger

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Posts: 8,361
Loc: Flag
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13958466 - 02/13/11 10:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Right, I agree.  No doubt Iran uses other means for proxy war against Israel and the Gazans get caught in the middle and face the consequences of Israeli retaliation. I wonder how much of these possible outcomes are just hype and paranoia.  But then again I don't fully understand Islamic martyrdom.

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13958528 - 02/13/11 10:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

the way I calculate it is thus:

Actually obtaining nukes is not all that important to Iran, rather they don't want to be told they can or can not have them by other nations, and more importantly, want everyone to get so heated up by the issue that Israel preemptively strikes them. This would give them the "high ground" so to speak for declare conventional war in return.

Their president may be obsessed with escatology, but I doubt that a large % of their military leaders are too concerned with the end of the world.

Futher, I don't really think their possession of nukes is something to worry about because they don't have enough for mutually ensured destruction, and without that threat the world would undoubtedly drop the hammer on a rogue nation that used a nuke.

My last comment would be that I don't even worry about them giving material to a terror cell, because surely after iraq and afganhistan the know that we'd probably just blame them anyway and again, drop the hammer.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: despisedicon]
    #13958543 - 02/13/11 10:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

of course you don't, a person really has to be born into that sort of culture to truly understand it.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13958714 - 02/13/11 10:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Since iran has funded most terroroism in the last 30 years, hezbollah to name one, do you think iran is trying to antagonize the west with their nuclear program to create an attack and make for all out war





untrue.

might want to take off those FOX glasses.  U.S. and Israel have been initiating acts of terrorism and framing Iran/Iraq, etc. and spinning lies about muslim antagonism/terrorism against the west for over 50 years.  they are hellbent on taking Iran out and will spread whatever BS they need to get support for it.


Quote:

1976 Israeli Shin Bet stages a false flag hijacking to blame on the PLO.
Israeli agents 'helped Entebbe hijackers' (This story broke June 2007)
Sayeret Matkal was sent to rescue the hostages however the blames should have been placed on The PFLP and Israel itself not the PLO. This event will forever be pointed at as to accuse the PLO of being terrorist to politically make them illegitimate.

1981 Israel Bombs Iraq's Osirak Nuclear Research Facility. "Begin claimed the reactor was about to go into operation and was a threat to Israel because it could produce nuclear weapons. Begin's claims were contradicted by a number of experts..."

CIA financed Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets. 1979-1988 May 15th

1982 June 6 Israel invaded Lebanon with US support. This was based on terrorist attacks from Lebanon (yeh well now I say maybe) Israel targets civilians and and is so brutal that they receive world wide criticism aside from the US of course. Hezbollah is established as a response to the invasion. Israel occupies Southern Lebanon.

1986 Israeli Mossad plants radio transmitter in Lybia broadcasting false reports tricking Reagan into bombing Lybia. The MSM was completely behind it and never explained it.

1980-1988 Iraq and Iran have a war where the US sells weapons to both sides.

Iraq gets chemical weapons (from Rumsfeld) from the US and uses them on Iran and on the Kurds.

rewind 1986 the heart of Iran contra affair (Iran needs these arms because of the war with Iraq whose leader is Saddam installed by the CIA and who has gotten chemical weapons from the US. The US through Israel also arms Iran. Kissinger quoted as saying nothing is better than to get them to kill each other.

1979-1986 ~ Iran Contra. The US and Israel work jointly in a covert operations of illegal arms and drug sales and financing contras to kill in Nicaragua.

2001-2007 Israel makes false stories about Iran. ADL makes up yellow stars story. Bush uses Nuclear weapons scare tactics. WMD myths are traceable to Feith's office. Wolfowitz even admits it in Vanity Fair. Israel sends anthrax to US targets and blames it frist on Al Qaeda then Iraq and then onto Patsies.

Nov 2008 Israel breaks cease fire with Hamas invading killing six Hamas officials. US media ignores this aside from one CNN report, and blames Hamas. The rest of the world correctly explained that Israel started the war and broke the cease fire. Israel begins a war with the Gaza strip Dec 27- Jan 18. In the war Israel killed thousands mostly civilians and mostly children. Israel used DU, cluster bombs, and MK77 (white phosphorus) all of which are illegal all of which were also used on Lebanon.

2010 May 31 Israel attacks and murders people on humanitarian aid ships which were trying to break the blockade on Gaza. (info here)
You see in Israel's twisted world, bringing food to starving people is "terrorism" and yet murdering people trapped on a boat, kidnapping the rest of them confiscating their cameras and holding them in jail forcing them to sign papers saying that can't sue and beating the crap out of several more after they've been handcuffed, is "defense." They say it with a straight face after being caught faking both audio and photos of the event and even falsely trying to link them to Al Qaeda. (Reminds me of this) After all that they try to act like they did nothing wrong and had no guilt or worry about what they were doing. Of course Israel has been caught before faking Al Qaeda attacks.

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=5196



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OfflineEdgeChaos
Still a stranger

Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 2,071
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: despisedicon]
    #13959048 - 02/14/11 12:16 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

despisedicon said:
Forgive me for stating the obvious but Christianity has calmed down quite considerably over the past as opposed to Islam which is due for a reformation.

To imply that today's sects of Islam and today's sects of Christianity both exhibit the same level of violence is absurd.  If you call for the death of cartoonists for example who lampoon your religion and rarely any individuals in this religion come forward to point out how stupid it is to do so because of fear this religion is lacking an enlightenment.





I was not implying anything about "level of violence". I was simply pointing out similarity in the old texts.

But, since you brought it up, there are Christian terrorists.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #13959077 - 02/14/11 12:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Larrythescaryrex said:
the way I calculate it is thus:

Actually obtaining nukes is not all that important to Iran, rather they don't want to be told they can or can not have them by other nations, and more importantly, want everyone to get so heated up by the issue that Israel preemptively strikes them. This would give them the "high ground" so to speak for declare conventional war in return.

Their president may be obsessed with escatology, but I doubt that a large % of their military leaders are too concerned with the end of the world.

Futher, I don't really think their possession of nukes is something to worry about because they don't have enough for mutually ensured destruction, and without that threat the world would undoubtedly drop the hammer on a rogue nation that used a nuke.

My last comment would be that I don't even worry about them giving material to a terror cell, because surely after iraq and afganhistan the know that we'd probably just blame them anyway and again, drop the hammer.




I agree with what you said, but the problem is that their leaders WANT war but what they dont want is a reserve military that wont fight the war and millions of protestors opposing their government for starting a war with Israel and USA.

They need patriotism, so they must have an attack occur to their people for something that is not justified. Ie. a peaceful nuclear program and suspicion that they have provided a dirty bomb to a terrorist cell, etc. In Iran the majority of people are moderate islamist, however, if their government attempts to begin a war, they will blame their own government and make a revolution. THEY NEED ISRAEL TO PRE-EMPTIVELY STRIKE, OTHERWISE THEY WONT HAVE THE MANPOWER AND THE CIVILIAN ARMY TO FIGHT THEIR BLOODY WAR AND THE COMING OF THE 12TH IMAM WONT MANIFEST.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13959133 - 02/14/11 12:35 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Since iran has funded most terroroism in the last 30 years, hezbollah to name one, do you think iran is trying to antagonize the west with their nuclear program to create an attack and make for all out war





untrue.

might want to take off those FOX glasses.  U.S. and Israel have been initiating acts of terrorism and framing Iran/Iraq, etc. and spinning lies about muslim antagonism/terrorism against the west for over 50 years.  they are hellbent on taking Iran out and will spread whatever BS they need to get support for it.


Quote:

1976 Israeli Shin Bet stages a false flag hijacking to blame on the PLO.
Israeli agents 'helped Entebbe hijackers' (This story broke June 2007)
Sayeret Matkal was sent to rescue the hostages however the blames should have been placed on The PFLP and Israel itself not the PLO. This event will forever be pointed at as to accuse the PLO of being terrorist to politically make them illegitimate.

1981 Israel Bombs Iraq's Osirak Nuclear Research Facility. "Begin claimed the reactor was about to go into operation and was a threat to Israel because it could produce nuclear weapons. Begin's claims were contradicted by a number of experts..."

CIA financed Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets. 1979-1988 May 15th

1982 June 6 Israel invaded Lebanon with US support. This was based on terrorist attacks from Lebanon (yeh well now I say maybe) Israel targets civilians and and is so brutal that they receive world wide criticism aside from the US of course. Hezbollah is established as a response to the invasion. Israel occupies Southern Lebanon.

1986 Israeli Mossad plants radio transmitter in Lybia broadcasting false reports tricking Reagan into bombing Lybia. The MSM was completely behind it and never explained it.

1980-1988 Iraq and Iran have a war where the US sells weapons to both sides.

Iraq gets chemical weapons (from Rumsfeld) from the US and uses them on Iran and on the Kurds.

rewind 1986 the heart of Iran contra affair (Iran needs these arms because of the war with Iraq whose leader is Saddam installed by the CIA and who has gotten chemical weapons from the US. The US through Israel also arms Iran. Kissinger quoted as saying nothing is better than to get them to kill each other.

1979-1986 ~ Iran Contra. The US and Israel work jointly in a covert operations of illegal arms and drug sales and financing contras to kill in Nicaragua.

2001-2007 Israel makes false stories about Iran. ADL makes up yellow stars story. Bush uses Nuclear weapons scare tactics. WMD myths are traceable to Feith's office. Wolfowitz even admits it in Vanity Fair. Israel sends anthrax to US targets and blames it frist on Al Qaeda then Iraq and then onto Patsies.

Nov 2008 Israel breaks cease fire with Hamas invading killing six Hamas officials. US media ignores this aside from one CNN report, and blames Hamas. The rest of the world correctly explained that Israel started the war and broke the cease fire. Israel begins a war with the Gaza strip Dec 27- Jan 18. In the war Israel killed thousands mostly civilians and mostly children. Israel used DU, cluster bombs, and MK77 (white phosphorus) all of which are illegal all of which were also used on Lebanon.

2010 May 31 Israel attacks and murders people on humanitarian aid ships which were trying to break the blockade on Gaza. (info here)
You see in Israel's twisted world, bringing food to starving people is "terrorism" and yet murdering people trapped on a boat, kidnapping the rest of them confiscating their cameras and holding them in jail forcing them to sign papers saying that can't sue and beating the crap out of several more after they've been handcuffed, is "defense." They say it with a straight face after being caught faking both audio and photos of the event and even falsely trying to link them to Al Qaeda. (Reminds me of this) After all that they try to act like they did nothing wrong and had no guilt or worry about what they were doing. Of course Israel has been caught before faking Al Qaeda attacks.

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=5196








Reagardless of whether or not it is true, ahmjenidad utters threats, even though they may not even be military threats.

"wipe israel off the map"

For example, this one. Regardless if he means use a nuke on israel or not, he obviously is not a proponent of self-determination and sovereign rule.

I know that some of the news is propaganda, but what you don't realize and can't argue against if you do, is that he is not a believer in self-determination, freedom of speech and does not accept secular cultures.

Either way this guy needs to be ousted and I hope that his people put a finger up his ass, so he can come out of the closet and start living his life, instead of worrying about Shariah Law.


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13959134 - 02/14/11 12:35 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I agree. about the preemptive strike, not the coming of the imam.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 3,857
Loc: 3 Seconds Ago. Flag
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #13959198 - 02/14/11 12:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Larrythescaryrex said:
I agree. about the preemptive strike, not the coming of the imam.





Show me where it says that ahmajeni-dude, isn't awaiting the coming of the twelfth imam?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13959262 - 02/14/11 01:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

no, he is; I am not.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
    #13959344 - 02/14/11 01:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"wipe israel off the map" is a mistranslation.

What he really said is basically; "the Zionist regime in Israel should end"

regardless, we should also acknowledge that there is a lot of pro-war religious zealotry on the extreme right of the Israeli side.

Lets also acknowledge that Iran is in compliance with UN inspections and no evidence of weaponization has yet been found.

Lets acknowledge also that Israel has hundreds of nukes, and refuses to be a part of the NPT or allow any inspections or be a part of any UN regulation.

lets also acknowledge that Israel has threatened to nuke Iran, but Iran had never threatened Israel.

The western mainstream media is generally pro-zionist so it's not surprising Iran is vilified.



So, who is the bigger nuclear threat?


Frontline Israel's Next War part 1


part 2


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (02/14/11 02:05 AM)

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OfflineEdgeChaos
Still a stranger

Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 2,071
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13959360 - 02/14/11 02:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Quote:

EdgeChaos said:
This sounds familiar... where did I....:strokebeard3:

Mark 13:8: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom
This has already happen. WW1 WW2...the messiah never came...don't worry man, hell doesn't exist!! Life is actually pretty sweet thereafter.


1st Thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Already has happened, WW1 and WW2. After WW1, people said peace and saftey then World war 2(WW2) happened...and nop...no messiah....

Matthew 24:6:
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

Wars have happened already plenty of times in the last 2000 years......


Luke 21:28: And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Wars came and gone, horrible wars and redemption never came.....:cheers:





Oh yeah! The Christian Bible.








Just realized you embedded your commentary into my quote, and I'm right there with you.

I'm just driving the point that the "end times" is something Christians want just as badly as the Muslims. We should be looking at the "Christian agenda" along side with the "Muslim agenda" talk.

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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13959361 - 02/14/11 02:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Lets acknowledge also that Israel has hundreds of nukes, and refuses to be a part of the NPT or allow any inspections or be a part of any UN regulation.




Yeah thats fucked up.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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InvisibleShins
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13959388 - 02/14/11 02:19 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Jewish messianic beliefs basically say that the jewish messiah will come and instill jewish law on the world too so...

:shrug:

lets just acknowledge that too before we all go bomb Iran.

The belief about the twelfth imam also is that he will emerge when the world is in great chaos, muslims inciting that chaos is not required.

There have been are islamic factions (Hojjatieh) that think creating chaos will hasten the return of the 12th imam however.

This exclisively extremist shiite belief as far as i know cannot be proven to be one of Ahmadinejad's

I'd be very interested in seeing evidence of it though if there is any.

Edited by Shins (02/14/11 02:42 AM)

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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13960085 - 02/14/11 08:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I know that some of the news is propaganda, but what you don't realize and can't argue against if you do, is that he is not a believer in self-determination, freedom of speech and does not accept secular cultures.

Either way this guy needs to be ousted and I hope that his people put a finger up his ass, so he can come out of the closet and start living his life, instead of worrying about Shariah Law.




that's your personal opinion piece. and all of that is up to the Iranian people to sort out on their own, not Israel and the U.S. who have been documented repeatedly spreading lies and committing terrorist acts in that region.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13960414 - 02/14/11 10:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EdgeChaos said:
This sounds familiar... where did I....:strokebeard3:

Mark 13:8: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

1st Thessalonians 5:3:
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Matthew 24:6:
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.


Luke 21:28: And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.



Oh yeah! The Christian Bible.





What deos that have to do with Iran or nuclear technology?  What is your point here?





Quote:

EdgeChaos said:
I'm just driving the point that the "end times" is something Christians want just as badly as the Muslims. We should be looking at the "Christian agenda" along side with the "Muslim agenda" talk.




Thats a bullshit knee jerk reaction.  Christians dont want it badly, Muslims dont either.  Iran is ruled by a minority sect/cult.

In either case, its ridiculous to judge a group of people by their holy book.  I think you are just making a false equivalence here to satisfy your white guilt and maintain the P.C. status quo.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13960435 - 02/14/11 10:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I realize that many things cant really be proven a 100% certain yes or not, but its obvious by looking at the iranian constitution that we have a problem with self-determination, huge lack of democracy, and a serious merger between state and religion.

I mean how can a state that says it won't hold it against anyone for having different beliefs than islam, have an islamically based constitution?

Just take a look at this.


Chapter XII [Article 175]: Radio & Television


This article guarantees the freedom of expression and dissemination of thoughts in the "Radio and Television of the Islamic Republic of Iran" when keeping with the Islamic criteria and best interests of the country. It gives the Leader the power to appoint and dismiss the head of the "Radio and Television of the Islamic Republic of Iran" and establishes a council with two representatives (six in total) from each branch of the government to supervise this organization.[16]

Chapter III [Article 19 to 42]: Rights of People

Article 27 provides for freedom of assembly, "provided arms are not carried" and the assemblies "are not detrimental to the fundamental principles of Islam".

Article 3 (State Goals)

Fight all forms of vice and corruption. (By the standards of Islamic Texts) Including homosexuality, 'zionist' states(israel and USA).


--------------------
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OfflineEdgeChaos
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13960945 - 02/14/11 12:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

diecommie, did you read the OP?

I'll quote it for you.

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
Apparently, the president of iran believes in the twelfth imam,a holy prophet that is going to come and instill islamic law on all nations of the world.

However, in order for him to come, there must be great bloodshed and war.

Since iran has funded most terroroism in the last 30 years, hezbollah to name one, do you think iran is trying to antagonize the west with their nuclear program to create an attack and make for all out war - thereby bringing on the twelfth imam....

My answere is yes and 4 rounds of sanctions means that sanctions will not work, particularly if you take into account the fact that the leader has this as a primary objective - a war and bloodshed, the preconditions of the return of the twelfth imam.

War seems to be the only answer, i just hope the damn revolution takes place before it is nessecary for this to happen.

Here is a good video on the subject.

http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/





Christians believe the exact same thing. Their "end times" comes during a time when the world is at unrest with "wars and rumors of wars". This is, of course, how it has been since history was first recorded, and obviously bullshit.

It is just as likely that fundamentalist Christians are hoping to bring on the end times with war as the Iranian president is.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13960951 - 02/14/11 12:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You are just making shit up.  Christians do not believe the exact same things.

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OfflineEdgeChaos
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: DieCommie]
    #13960970 - 02/14/11 12:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Let me suggest that you read the bible before making those kinds of statements. It's been a long time for me, but I remember quite a bit and don't think you understand what you are talking about.

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13961044 - 02/14/11 12:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What a holy book says is irrelevant.  Im not a christian, I dont care what the bible says.  I only care about what christians actually do and think.  Same goes for muslims.  I dont care at all what their holy book says.  I only care about how they think and ultimately what they do.

Its a fallacy to judge a religion/culture based off of their holy book.  Its their actions that are important, not some ancient writings.

No christian I know, and I have meet quite a few different kinds... None of them think that the end of times can be brought about by humans starting a war.  Rather they think that the devil/god will be the one starting the war.

I think it is bigotry to take a thread that isnt about christianity at all and drag christians into it for the use of compaing them to muslims in an attempt to show that christianity is equal to or worse than islam.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13961216 - 02/14/11 01:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I know that some of the news is propaganda, but what you don't realize and can't argue against if you do, is that he is not a believer in self-determination, freedom of speech and does not accept secular cultures.

Either way this guy needs to be ousted and I hope that his people put a finger up his ass, so he can come out of the closet and start living his life, instead of worrying about Shariah Law.




that's your personal opinion piece. and all of that is up to the Iranian people to sort out on their own, not Israel and the U.S. who have been documented repeatedly spreading lies and committing terrorist acts in that region.




Apparently according to the Iranian constitution its not up to its people because ousting the current regime is going against the laws of islam, which is expressly stated as evil and contrary to the goals of the country. The protests have been a clear example of that, so has the censorship of the media.

In this case, it would be foolish to believe that it is up to the Iranian people and we do agree on one thing, that the government has to change.

However, judging by the iranian constitution and the current regimes actions and attitudes towards protests and mass forms of communication, a large enough revolution won't ever take place by their own hands.

Show me how it could, when a government has the power to shut down the internet, radio, TV and use serious threats to peoples lives to oust protests?

I am sorry, but this world isn't perfect and in this sense, this one problem is the greater of two evils.

I woudldn't be to opposed to going in and stoping their nuclear program, just under the suspicion that they might hand off a dirty bomb to a terrorist cell and/or utilize it to start the bloodshed.


--------------------
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OfflineEdgeChaos
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: DieCommie]
    #13961230 - 02/14/11 01:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"No christian I know, and I have meet quite a few different kinds... None of them think that the end of times can be brought about by humans starting a war.  Rather they think that the devil/god will be the one starting the war."

--This is true for most of the people I meet that claim Christianity. Of course, those people would be wrong about the events of the end times and probably have never spent time reading their "favorite book".
  The problem is that we are talking about fundamentalist Muslims and Christians. These are people that take the "word of god" as the actual word of god. meaning that they believe that EVERY word in the book is truth. these fundamentalists would not even consider the first Christians to be Christians at all. It's the same with Islamic fundamentalists.

"I think it is bigotry to take a thread that isnt about christianity at all and drag christians into it for the use of compaing them to muslims in an attempt to show that christianity is equal to or worse than islam."

--I think it's bigotry not to include Christians in any debate that has to do with Islam. I was taken back by the outrageous similarities in what the OP said and the experiences I have had in the Christan church. I simply wanted to express my amusement that they were so similar.

I'm not even trying to incite heated debate but, I guess I should have seen it coming. :crazy2:

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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: DieCommie]
    #13961238 - 02/14/11 01:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

there are crazy christians and crazy muslims, and crazy people in all other religions. who cares.

the point is that there is a documented campaign of disinformation being conducted by U.S. and Israel intelligence to portray Iran(Iraq #2) as a terrorist nation that wants to nuke the world, and that their people desperately want the west to bring them "democracy and free elections". It's bullshit propaganda campaign decades in the making that is completely supported by mainstream media.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13961315 - 02/14/11 01:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
there are crazy christians and crazy muslims, and crazy people in all other religions. who cares.

the point is that there is a documented campaign of disinformation being conducted by U.S. and Israel intelligence to portray Iran(Iraq #2) as a terrorist nation that wants to nuke the world, and that their people desperately want the west to bring them "democracy and free elections". It's bullshit propaganda campaign decades in the making that is completely supported by mainstream media.



It isn't disinformation to assert that Iran is a terrorist nation.  They most certainly are.  And though I doubt their people want the West to do it they certainly seem to have gotten a hankering for freedom.  Good luck to them.

Sprinkling particles of bullshit and strawmen in your posts does not negate reality.  It just makes you look like a dishonest fool.


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OfflineLarrythescaryrex
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13961622 - 02/14/11 02:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The christian end times require the temple of solomon to be rebuilt first.

this would require the destruction of the dome of the rock.


--------------------
RIP Acidic_Sloth

Sunset_Mission said:
"larry the scary rex
verily scary when thoroughly vexed
invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex
mercifully massacring memories masterfully
relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully
mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs
invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs"
April 24th 2011

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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13961863 - 02/14/11 03:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It isn't disinformation to assert that Iran is a terrorist nation.




It is disinformation because it's not true.

I don't doubt Iran has it's fair share of corruption and nasty people,  but, that they're a source or sponsor of terrorism like the media is portraying is fabricated bullshit, as is muslim terrorism and antagonism against the west in general which is CIA/Mossad funded and orchestrated (the clear benefactors).  It's the same lies that they've been caught for again and again, only the lie keeps getting told because of complicit media.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13962146 - 02/14/11 04:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It isn't disinformation to assert that Iran is a terrorist nation.




It is disinformation because it's not true.

I don't doubt Iran has it's fair share of corruption and nasty people,  but, that they're a source or sponsor of terrorism like the media is portraying is fabricated bullshit, as is muslim terrorism and antagonism against the west in general which is CIA/Mossad funded and orchestrated (the clear benefactors).  It's the same lies that they've been caught for again and again, only the lie keeps getting told because of complicit media.



That is some world class denial right there.  Even the current idiots recognize Iran as terrorist and it takes real special stupid to deny Muslim terrorism in general.  Extreme short bus stupid.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13963432 - 02/14/11 07:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13964049 - 02/14/11 09:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.





Bro, did you not see their constitution?

How is that not repressive and unassertive of the rights and freedoms you enjoy.

Have you even read the constitution?


--------------------
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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13964357 - 02/14/11 09:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

But they don't really mean to be bad guys.  God makes them do it. Just like here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13965826 - 02/15/11 03:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:


untrue.

might want to take off those FOX glasses.  U.S. and Israel have been initiating acts of terrorism and framing Iran/Iraq, etc. and spinning lies about muslim antagonism/terrorism against the west for over 50 years.  they are hellbent on taking Iran out and will spread whatever BS they need to get support for it.


Quote:

1976 Israeli Shin Bet stages a false flag hijacking to blame on the PLO.
Israeli agents 'helped Entebbe hijackers' (This story broke June 2007)
Sayeret Matkal was sent to rescue the hostages however the blames should have been placed on The PFLP and Israel itself not the PLO. This event will forever be pointed at as to accuse the PLO of being terrorist to politically make them illegitimate.

1981 Israel Bombs Iraq's Osirak Nuclear Research Facility. "Begin claimed the reactor was about to go into operation and was a threat to Israel because it could produce nuclear weapons. Begin's claims were contradicted by a number of experts..."

CIA financed Osama Bin Laden to fight the Soviets. 1979-1988 May 15th

1982 June 6 Israel invaded Lebanon with US support. This was based on terrorist attacks from Lebanon (yeh well now I say maybe) Israel targets civilians and and is so brutal that they receive world wide criticism aside from the US of course. Hezbollah is established as a response to the invasion. Israel occupies Southern Lebanon.

1986 Israeli Mossad plants radio transmitter in Lybia broadcasting false reports tricking Reagan into bombing Lybia. The MSM was completely behind it and never explained it.

1980-1988 Iraq and Iran have a war where the US sells weapons to both sides.

Iraq gets chemical weapons (from Rumsfeld) from the US and uses them on Iran and on the Kurds.

rewind 1986 the heart of Iran contra affair (Iran needs these arms because of the war with Iraq whose leader is Saddam installed by the CIA and who has gotten chemical weapons from the US. The US through Israel also arms Iran. Kissinger quoted as saying nothing is better than to get them to kill each other.

1979-1986 ~ Iran Contra. The US and Israel work jointly in a covert operations of illegal arms and drug sales and financing contras to kill in Nicaragua.

2001-2007 Israel makes false stories about Iran. ADL makes up yellow stars story. Bush uses Nuclear weapons scare tactics. WMD myths are traceable to Feith's office. Wolfowitz even admits it in Vanity Fair. Israel sends anthrax to US targets and blames it frist on Al Qaeda then Iraq and then onto Patsies.

Nov 2008 Israel breaks cease fire with Hamas invading killing six Hamas officials. US media ignores this aside from one CNN report, and blames Hamas. The rest of the world correctly explained that Israel started the war and broke the cease fire. Israel begins a war with the Gaza strip Dec 27- Jan 18. In the war Israel killed thousands mostly civilians and mostly children. Israel used DU, cluster bombs, and MK77 (white phosphorus) all of which are illegal all of which were also used on Lebanon.

2010 May 31 Israel attacks and murders people on humanitarian aid ships which were trying to break the blockade on Gaza. (info here)
You see in Israel's twisted world, bringing food to starving people is "terrorism" and yet murdering people trapped on a boat, kidnapping the rest of them confiscating their cameras and holding them in jail forcing them to sign papers saying that can't sue and beating the crap out of several more after they've been handcuffed, is "defense." They say it with a straight face after being caught faking both audio and photos of the event and even falsely trying to link them to Al Qaeda. (Reminds me of this) After all that they try to act like they did nothing wrong and had no guilt or worry about what they were doing. Of course Israel has been caught before faking Al Qaeda attacks.

http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?t=5196









What does this copy paste job have to do with anything?  I fail to see the relevance and you've not even alleged any particular relevance unless we construe this in some way to be your examples of Israli and US terrorism, which is patently bizzare given the nature of these events (seriously, you've not even made an argument for how these are terrorist acts).


Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It isn't disinformation to assert that Iran is a terrorist nation.




It is disinformation because it's not true.

I don't doubt Iran has it's fair share of corruption and nasty people,  but, that they're a source or sponsor of terrorism like the media is portraying is fabricated bullshit,




What does "the media" and how they portray Iran have to do with anything?  This is the second time you've done this, in your prior post claiming people need to remove their "FOX glasses" as if they are obviously fools who rely on biased media coming from a single company.  This ridiculous and unjustified poisoning the well strategy is irrelevant and quite arrogant- the only possible relevance could be that you presume yourself of special insight while able to conclude others' must be ignorant propaganda-inundated fools, by sole virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?  It is disinformation to say so because it isn't true?

Please back up this claim you've made.  Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 

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InvisibleShins
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #13965946 - 02/15/11 05:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?

Please back up this claim you've made.




You don't prove a negative, if you claim they are, it's up to you to prove it.

The issue of western media bias (as well as yours) is a valid and relevant issue.

does this sound like terrorism?



The Zionist attendees walked out.

The real issue is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is against the racial supremacist state of Israel, and spits truth about western hypocrisy and deception.

so - he and Iran are portrayed as terrorist by the zionist media with the intent of an emotional, not logical, response from the people.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (02/15/11 05:57 AM)

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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13965981 - 02/15/11 06:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?

Please back up this claim you've made.




You don't prove a negative, if you claim they are, it's up to you to prove it.




No kidding, right?
That's how fucking brainwashed we are.  The lies about terrorism are so sacrosanct.  I may as well have just said the sky isn't blue.

Apparently we have to prove a cabal of liars in western intelligence that fabricated this shit so much in the past, isn't lying again THIS time.

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #13966037 - 02/15/11 06:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
What does "the media" and how they portray Iran have to do with anything?



alot.

Quote:

This is the second time you've done this, in your prior post claiming people need to remove their "FOX glasses" as if they are obviously fools who rely on biased media coming from a single company.  This ridiculous and unjustified poisoning the well strategy is irrelevant and quite arrogant- the only possible relevance could be that you presume yourself of special insight while able to conclude others' must be ignorant propaganda-inundated fools, by sole virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.




That well is beyond poisoned. I said that because it was the exact rhetoric coming out of propaganda artists at FOX(and CNN, ABC, NBC, BBC, etc.) if your views on the middle-east are in line with them, then your brain's in trouble. and no I don't think I'm special at all, I've just independently researched the blatant lies the media and corrupt intelligence have been spreading about this issue for decades.

Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?  It is disinformation to say so because it isn't true?

Please back up this claim you've made.



see shins post.  you prove they are a terrorist nation.  try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.

Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13966794 - 02/15/11 10:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.




This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13966825 - 02/15/11 10:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.


Grav's definition of con artist:  Anybody who says he is full of shit.
Quote:



Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.




Totally unsupported crap.  Really, back to the idiot land of Conspiracy with you.  I don't go fuck up your circle jerk there, do I?  Let the sane people have a Politics forum without your raving nonsense.  You have your sandbox.  Just don't eat the lumpy parts.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13967142 - 02/15/11 11:53 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.


Grav's definition of con artist:  Anybody who says he is full of shit.
Quote:



Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.




Totally unsupported crap.  Really, back to the idiot land of Conspiracy with you.  I don't go fuck up your circle jerk there, do I?  Let the sane people have a Politics forum without your raving nonsense.  You have your sandbox.  Just don't eat the lumpy parts.





Shut up Zappa, you can be just as aggravating and you have no right delegating where a person should and shouldn't express themselves. Aren't you opposed to telling people what they should do, isn't that one of the fundamental problems with Iran?

This guy obviously needs help.

:peace:


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Posts: 3,857
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13967169 - 02/15/11 11:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
What does "the media" and how they portray Iran have to do with anything?



alot.

Quote:

This is the second time you've done this, in your prior post claiming people need to remove their "FOX glasses" as if they are obviously fools who rely on biased media coming from a single company.  This ridiculous and unjustified poisoning the well strategy is irrelevant and quite arrogant- the only possible relevance could be that you presume yourself of special insight while able to conclude others' must be ignorant propaganda-inundated fools, by sole virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.




That well is beyond poisoned. I said that because it was the exact rhetoric coming out of propaganda artists at FOX(and CNN, ABC, NBC, BBC, etc.) if your views on the middle-east are in line with them, then your brain's in trouble. and no I don't think I'm special at all, I've just independently researched the blatant lies the media and corrupt intelligence have been spreading about this issue for decades.

Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?  It is disinformation to say so because it isn't true?

Please back up this claim you've made.



see shins post.  you prove they are a terrorist nation.  try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.

Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.




For the last time, regardless of wether Iran sponsors terrorism, they are still, as I have shown through their consitution, incapable of expressing freedom of expression.

It clearly says it in the Radio/TV component of the consitution that the information arising from these mediums of communication, must be aligned and supportive of the interests of the government.

Not of the interests of its people!!!!!

They also claim to allow anyone to believe anything, yet at the same time base total power over their consitution to a guardian council of islamic fundamentalists!!!!

Thats fucking absurd.

Why does he let his people CHANT death to america without telling them to be patient or tolerant?

Why does he stand there and smirk while onlookers chant and burn american and israeli flags?

Why does it say that people can protest, but shut down protests violently, even in spite of their being no violence coming from the protestors???

Lets address the obvious concerns we have with Iran, before we address the less obvious ones.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13967337 - 02/15/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:




Shut up Zappa, you can be just as aggravating and you have no right delegating where a person should and shouldn't express themselves. Aren't you opposed to telling people what they should do, isn't that one of the fundamental problems with Iran?




You are clearly confused.

1.  There is a reason why there are different forums for different topics.  The Conspiracy and Coverup forum was invented precisely to provide a place for the deranged to opine freely.  It was created to give the lunatics a safe asylum and to spare the rest of us their raving and drooling stupidity.  And that is what believing that the CIA or the Mossad caused 9/11 is.  Raving and drooling stupidity.

2.  The fundamental problem with Iran is Iran.  It has nothing to do with anybody telling them what they should do.

3.  As far as me telling people what they should or should not do they would be well served to pay attention when I do.  Notice that me opining about what they should do is vastly different from me telling them what they must do.


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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13967382 - 02/15/11 12:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Totally unsupported crap. 




totally. 

al-qeada impersonators





botched anthrax false flag.  intended to frame Atta, shifted to Ivins after anthrax strain found to be traceable to U.S. bioweapons labs


 
^^ obviously meant to frame muslims. duh.





Psychotic Israelis Get Sloppy In Mexico City
As reported by La Vox De Atzlan, two men posing as press photographers, but in reality being Israeli Mossad agents, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican congress on October 10, 2001 armed with 9mm pistols, 9 grenades, explosives, three detonators, and 58 bullets, but were RELEASED from custody because of pressure from the Israeli embassy

"We believe that the two Zionists terrorist were going to blow up the Mexican Congress. The second phase was to mobilize both the Mexican and US press to blame Osama bin Laden. Most likely then Mexico would declare war on Afghanistan as well, commit troops and all the oil it could spare to combat Islamic terrorism."
http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/2010/09/israel-did-9-11-all-proof-in-world.html

-------------------------------------------


Quote:

This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.




was wondering when you'd just start hurling pathetic dismissive insults.  apparently that's all you know how to do.

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13967698 - 02/15/11 01:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

100% unlinked and unsupported bullshit.  Just go back to the tardhole.


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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13967986 - 02/15/11 02:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

every one one of those images is from a major news agency and is only a small sample of information revealing how muslim terrorism has been fabricated by Israeli and U.S. intelligence. 

you're in complete denial, ignoring anything that threatens your worldview, and reduced to sheepish insults as usual.

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav] * 2
    #13968269 - 02/15/11 03:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
every one one of those images is from a major news agency and is only a small sample of information revealing how muslim terrorism has been fabricated by Israeli and U.S. intelligence.




Really?  They just look like pictures of middle eastern appearing people.
Quote:

   

you're in complete denial, ignoring anything that threatens your worldview, and reduced to sheepish insults as usual.




Nothing you have posted threatens me or my worldview in any way at all.  And apparently you feel the entire format of the Shroomery is an insult to you since there was a specific forum created for you and other similarly inclined posters.  It has a name.  "Conspiracy and Coverups"  Take your relentlessly stupid posts there where they belong.


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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13968668 - 02/15/11 04:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.




This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.




Another reply that appeals to irrational emotions.


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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13968833 - 02/15/11 04:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

On the issue of the iran constitution;

You will find that Both Canada and The USA (not sure about UK but i'm pretty sure it does) have similar clauses in theor constitution!

Quote:

The Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women (French: Ministre du Patrimoine canadien) is the Minister of the Crown in the Canadian Cabinet who heads the Department of Canadian Heritage, the federal government department responsible for Canada's Arts, Culture, Media, Communications network, and Sport.




Quote:

7. It is hereby affirmed that telecommunications performs an essential role in the maintenance of Canada’s identity and sovereignty and that the Canadian telecommunications policy has as its objectives
(a) to facilitate the orderly development throughout Canada of a telecommunications system that serves to safeguard, enrich and strengthen the social and economic fabric of Canada and its regions;





Quote:

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent agency of the United States government, created, Congressional statute (see 47 U.S.C. § 151 and 47 U.S.C. § 154), and with the majority of its commissioners appointed by the current President. The FCC works towards six goals in the areas of broadband, competition, the spectrum, the media, public safety and homeland security, and modernizing the FCC.[2]




Quote:

Partnerships with other governmental entities, with its regulated industries, and with certain trade associations are core to the FCC’s Homeland Security initiatives; FCC representatives actively participate in over 50 organizations that are concerned with Homeland Security at the international, national,  state, local, or tribal level.  In addition, Bureaus and Offices throughout the Commission regularly initiate actions that promote Homeland Security objectives. 





Aside from the homosexuality part.

The Iranian leaders seem to believe that homosexuality is more about nurture than nature, which i think is an opinion that has some merit, but that's probably a whole other thread.


--------------------
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Edited by Shins (02/15/11 04:56 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13969013 - 02/15/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.




This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.




Another reply that appeals to irrational emotions.



What emotions am I appealing to?


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13971874 - 02/16/11 01:45 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:




Shut up Zappa, you can be just as aggravating and you have no right delegating where a person should and shouldn't express themselves. Aren't you opposed to telling people what they should do, isn't that one of the fundamental problems with Iran?




You are clearly confused.

1.  There is a reason why there are different forums for different topics.  The Conspiracy and Coverup forum was invented precisely to provide a place for the deranged to opine freely.  It was created to give the lunatics a safe asylum and to spare the rest of us their raving and drooling stupidity.  And that is what believing that the CIA or the Mossad caused 9/11 is.  Raving and drooling stupidity.

2.  The fundamental problem with Iran is Iran.  It has nothing to do with anybody telling them what they should do.

3.  As far as me telling people what they should or should not do they would be well served to pay attention when I do.  Notice that me opining about what they should do is vastly different from me telling them what they must do.





Okay Zappa, thanks for clearing that up.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13971886 - 02/16/11 01:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
On the issue of the iran constitution;

You will find that Both Canada and The USA (not sure about UK but i'm pretty sure it does) have similar clauses in theor constitution!

Quote:

The Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women (French: Ministre du Patrimoine canadien) is the Minister of the Crown in the Canadian Cabinet who heads the Department of Canadian Heritage, the federal government department responsible for Canada's Arts, Culture, Media, Communications network, and Sport.




Quote:

7. It is hereby affirmed that telecommunications performs an essential role in the maintenance of Canada’s identity and sovereignty and that the Canadian telecommunications policy has as its objectives
(a) to facilitate the orderly development throughout Canada of a telecommunications system that serves to safeguard, enrich and strengthen the social and economic fabric of Canada and its regions;





Quote:

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent agency of the United States government, created, Congressional statute (see 47 U.S.C. § 151 and 47 U.S.C. § 154), and with the majority of its commissioners appointed by the current President. The FCC works towards six goals in the areas of broadband, competition, the spectrum, the media, public safety and homeland security, and modernizing the FCC.[2]




Quote:

Partnerships with other governmental entities, with its regulated industries, and with certain trade associations are core to the FCC’s Homeland Security initiatives; FCC representatives actively participate in over 50 organizations that are concerned with Homeland Security at the international, national,  state, local, or tribal level.  In addition, Bureaus and Offices throughout the Commission regularly initiate actions that promote Homeland Security objectives. 





Aside from the homosexuality part.

The Iranian leaders seem to believe that homosexuality is more about nurture than nature, which i think is an opinion that has some merit, but that's probably a whole other thread.





They are very interesting notes shin.

Thanks for that.

However, I have to disagree, because the president has once again, and done so in the past, shut down the internet, not allowed independent news agencies, put the opposing political party leaders under house arrest and also kills civilians during protests.

So its not really all that relevant considering that they are not following their constitution.

Or are they?

Well, when it says in a constitution that the government has the power to appropriate the mass forms of communication, in relation to the goals of the regime, it does not clarify what that means nor does it seem to involve the peoples sovereignty in the matter, which I think is a fundamental difference in Canadian and iranian constitutions.

Thoughts here?


--------------------
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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13972109 - 02/16/11 03:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?

Please back up this claim you've made.




You don't prove a negative





First I must ask what the relevance is of this claim?  That Grav claimed something he cannot prove does not in the least relieve him of his burden of proof- it merely renders him logically unable to satisfy it.  As such, Grav's assertion is incorrect even granting, arguendo, your logical claim here.  This clearly means my challenge of Grav's incorrect assertion was also proper and in fact cannot be defeated.  The only thing unclear is how you justify posturing your reply as if it were a defense to Grav's statement given that you are necessarily arguing it is impossible for Grav to justify his claim or bear his burden of proof?

As to the veracity of your claim here, that Grav's claim was a negative and hence can't be proven logically, I doubt this and request you to back up your claims here.  What Grav did is make a statement of the form Iran IS 'x', where 'x' is "not a terrorist nation.  The negative form of the argument opposing the positive assertion that Iran is a terrorist nation would be as follows:  "It is untrue that Iran IS a terrorist nation".  This is the default position, or null hypothesis, that should be presumed whenever investigating matters.  This is not, at all, what Grav did.  Grave, rather than advancing the null hypothesis that the positive claim was false, took the contrary positive position of saying Iran was not a terrorist nation.  I've simply put him to his proof.


Since you've engaged me on this technical matter, I hope you will be kind enough to rebut this argument or concede your challenge was spurious.




Quote:

if you claim they are, it's up to you to prove it.




Please explain the relevance of this statement. 

As you've made this statement following the previous discussion and shown no relevance whatsoever, I can only presume that you imply that I have asserted that Iran is a terrorist nation and thereby bear the burden of this claim.  Please establish this premise in your reply or explain what the reelvance of your argument here is.

Quote:


The issue of western media bias (as well as yours) is a valid and relevant issue.




What does "(as well as yours)" mean?  I don't have 'media' nor do I control any media apparatus.  What are you talking about?  If you refer to a bias that I personally have, once more I'd ask you what the relevance of this statement is and how it could possibly be true?

If we grant your argument that I am biased, arguendo, how does that change anything?  How is it a relevant issue, as you claim?  As I am not asserting myself as an authority nor pushing conclusory remarks in lieu of argument, I cannot see what relevance my alleged bias is.  Frankly, it seems like just another ad hominem argument.


Quote:

The real issue is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is against the racial supremacist state of Israel, and spits truth about western hypocrisy and deception.





Please back up you claim that Israel is a "racial supremacist state", and explain what the alleged fact that iran reveals western hypocrisy and deception has to do with anything.

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13972115 - 02/16/11 04:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?

Please back up this claim you've made.




You don't prove a negative, if you claim they are, it's up to you to prove it.




No kidding, right?
That's how fucking brainwashed we are.  The lies about terrorism are so sacrosanct.  I may as well have just said the sky isn't blue.






As you reply in endoresment of Shins' criticism of my claim, I would also ask you to justify the relvance of this criticism even it were true (as it argues your claim is bullshit- impossible that you could be justified in saying it).  Additionally, please justify the truth of the premise he bases his criticism on, which I have discussed in my reply to his post.  It seems quite plain that he is incorrect in saying the claim that "something is not so" is unable to be demonstrated- that it is a negative assertion unable to be proven.  Taking a look at an object, if you say "this object is not red" (where red is an object reflecting light at 550nm), it is a simple matter to prove you are wrong, that it is in fact red.  This is of the same form as your argument- an argument that is logically possible to prove yet I doubt factually able to be proven.

Had you doubted a positive claim that Iran is a terrorist nation rather than asserting the contrary positive claim, this would be a different matter.  Of course, this isn't what you did and not what you believe, as plain from your discussion.

Quote:

Apparently we have to prove a cabal of liars in western intelligence that fabricated this shit so much in the past, isn't lying again THIS time.




Please establish this argument as correct.  Once more your argument seems to be wholly fallacious.  Where did i assert that you must prove a cabal of liars in western intelligence that fabircated this shit previously is not lieing this time?

Even ignoring your ridiculous flourishes, where did I even argue that you must prove a cabal of western intelligence is not lieing- a far more conservative claim than that which you assert as being asked to do.

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #13972362 - 02/16/11 06:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

john, i'm sorry the shroomery hasn't made a sub-forum on Syntax.  you must be having a hard time finding at outlet.

if you ever have any opinions/information to share i wouldn't mind reading it.

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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #14007306 - 02/22/11 12:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
john, i'm sorry the shroomery hasn't made a sub-forum on Syntax.  you must be having a hard time finding at outlet.

if you ever have any opinions/information to share i wouldn't mind reading it.





Please explain this remark.

It was your endorsement of Shins' argument that broached technical philosophical arguments- falsely claiming that your argument that Iran was not a terrorist nation was a negative argument of a type unable to be proven.  I meerly refuted that nonsense.

Now that we apparently, both, regard that excursion as pointless and Shins' argument as stupid, I suppose you can go ahead and back up your remarkable claims: that Iran is not a terrorist nation.  What basis do you have for saying this?

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #14007835 - 02/22/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

hahhaa

Don't even try John. This guy is a tool and fails to recognize that Iran is anti-freedom/sovereign rule, due to largely that it is in plain sight within its constitution.


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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14012454 - 02/23/11 09:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Iran's one of the nuttier countries out there, that's for sure.  I can't recall another state that openly called for the assasination of a foreign national in a foreign land (as they did after the satanic verses nonsense)... how many other incidents like that are their?  I mean, their grand poobah himself issued the fatwa and the state backed it officially.

At least Putin pretends to be uninvolved when he kills foreigners, lol- that they would come out and say something like that speaks volumes for what kinda government they have.


Either way, the fact that grav says things that he never seems to back up is getting old.  I'm not sure why he continues to make crap up, but I wish he'd relegate his unsupported nonsense to the looney bin forum, and leave the political forum to ideas that have at least an alleged basis in reality.

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #14021105 - 02/24/11 05:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I want them to get rid of the iranian leader.

I would rue the day he is hung by his own people.

It would be crab legs and fine wine that evening!


--------------------
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14025680 - 02/25/11 02:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I want them to get rid of the iranian leader.

I would rue the day he is hung by his own people.

It would be crab legs and fine wine that evening!




Sentence 2 has a completely opposite meaning than sentences 1 & 3.

"Rue" means... regret, sorrow.


You want them to get rid of him, but if they hang him you'd regret it? And you'd celebrate that regret by having a great meal?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #14041687 - 02/28/11 12:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

To me rue means 'roooooo' as in cheer. I figured so much.

meh.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14043946 - 02/28/11 05:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I want them to get rid of the iranian leader.

I would rue the day he is hung by his own people.





Make up your mind.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14044136 - 02/28/11 06:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
I want them to get rid of the iranian leader.

I would rue the day he is hung by his own people.





Make up your mind.





:lol:

You don't read posts much do you?

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:
To me rue means 'roooooo' as in cheer. I figured so much.

meh.




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OfflineTGRR
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #14044304 - 02/28/11 06:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:

You don't read posts much do you?





Speak English or GTFO.

"Rue" means "regret".

Your illiteracy is not my responsibility.


--------------------
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