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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
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Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #13966037 - 02/15/11 06:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
What does "the media" and how they portray Iran have to do with anything?



alot.

Quote:

This is the second time you've done this, in your prior post claiming people need to remove their "FOX glasses" as if they are obviously fools who rely on biased media coming from a single company.  This ridiculous and unjustified poisoning the well strategy is irrelevant and quite arrogant- the only possible relevance could be that you presume yourself of special insight while able to conclude others' must be ignorant propaganda-inundated fools, by sole virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.




That well is beyond poisoned. I said that because it was the exact rhetoric coming out of propaganda artists at FOX(and CNN, ABC, NBC, BBC, etc.) if your views on the middle-east are in line with them, then your brain's in trouble. and no I don't think I'm special at all, I've just independently researched the blatant lies the media and corrupt intelligence have been spreading about this issue for decades.

Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?  It is disinformation to say so because it isn't true?

Please back up this claim you've made.



see shins post.  you prove they are a terrorist nation.  try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.

Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13966794 - 02/15/11 10:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.




This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13966825 - 02/15/11 10:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.


Grav's definition of con artist:  Anybody who says he is full of shit.
Quote:



Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.




Totally unsupported crap.  Really, back to the idiot land of Conspiracy with you.  I don't go fuck up your circle jerk there, do I?  Let the sane people have a Politics forum without your raving nonsense.  You have your sandbox.  Just don't eat the lumpy parts.


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13967142 - 02/15/11 11:53 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.


Grav's definition of con artist:  Anybody who says he is full of shit.
Quote:



Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.




Totally unsupported crap.  Really, back to the idiot land of Conspiracy with you.  I don't go fuck up your circle jerk there, do I?  Let the sane people have a Politics forum without your raving nonsense.  You have your sandbox.  Just don't eat the lumpy parts.





Shut up Zappa, you can be just as aggravating and you have no right delegating where a person should and shouldn't express themselves. Aren't you opposed to telling people what they should do, isn't that one of the fundamental problems with Iran?

This guy obviously needs help.

:peace:


--------------------
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13967169 - 02/15/11 11:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
What does "the media" and how they portray Iran have to do with anything?



alot.

Quote:

This is the second time you've done this, in your prior post claiming people need to remove their "FOX glasses" as if they are obviously fools who rely on biased media coming from a single company.  This ridiculous and unjustified poisoning the well strategy is irrelevant and quite arrogant- the only possible relevance could be that you presume yourself of special insight while able to conclude others' must be ignorant propaganda-inundated fools, by sole virtue of the fact that they disagree with you.




That well is beyond poisoned. I said that because it was the exact rhetoric coming out of propaganda artists at FOX(and CNN, ABC, NBC, BBC, etc.) if your views on the middle-east are in line with them, then your brain's in trouble. and no I don't think I'm special at all, I've just independently researched the blatant lies the media and corrupt intelligence have been spreading about this issue for decades.

Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?  It is disinformation to say so because it isn't true?

Please back up this claim you've made.



see shins post.  you prove they are a terrorist nation.  try doing it without the testimony of con artist agencies.

Quote:

Further, you can dispense with the US, Israel nonsense until you can show what the hell that has to do with whether Iran commits terrorist acts and is a terrorist nation. 




they are inextricably related. the only reason we are talking about TERRISTS at all is because CIA and MOSSAD have been sponsoring it for decades, creating and funding terrorist cells, fabricating al-queda personalities, and staging false-flags to blame it on muslims/islamic extremism. 

always ask yourself who really benefits.




For the last time, regardless of wether Iran sponsors terrorism, they are still, as I have shown through their consitution, incapable of expressing freedom of expression.

It clearly says it in the Radio/TV component of the consitution that the information arising from these mediums of communication, must be aligned and supportive of the interests of the government.

Not of the interests of its people!!!!!

They also claim to allow anyone to believe anything, yet at the same time base total power over their consitution to a guardian council of islamic fundamentalists!!!!

Thats fucking absurd.

Why does he let his people CHANT death to america without telling them to be patient or tolerant?

Why does he stand there and smirk while onlookers chant and burn american and israeli flags?

Why does it say that people can protest, but shut down protests violently, even in spite of their being no violence coming from the protestors???

Lets address the obvious concerns we have with Iran, before we address the less obvious ones.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13967337 - 02/15/11 12:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:




Shut up Zappa, you can be just as aggravating and you have no right delegating where a person should and shouldn't express themselves. Aren't you opposed to telling people what they should do, isn't that one of the fundamental problems with Iran?




You are clearly confused.

1.  There is a reason why there are different forums for different topics.  The Conspiracy and Coverup forum was invented precisely to provide a place for the deranged to opine freely.  It was created to give the lunatics a safe asylum and to spare the rest of us their raving and drooling stupidity.  And that is what believing that the CIA or the Mossad caused 9/11 is.  Raving and drooling stupidity.

2.  The fundamental problem with Iran is Iran.  It has nothing to do with anybody telling them what they should do.

3.  As far as me telling people what they should or should not do they would be well served to pay attention when I do.  Notice that me opining about what they should do is vastly different from me telling them what they must do.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13967382 - 02/15/11 12:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Totally unsupported crap. 




totally. 

al-qeada impersonators





botched anthrax false flag.  intended to frame Atta, shifted to Ivins after anthrax strain found to be traceable to U.S. bioweapons labs


 
^^ obviously meant to frame muslims. duh.





Psychotic Israelis Get Sloppy In Mexico City
As reported by La Vox De Atzlan, two men posing as press photographers, but in reality being Israeli Mossad agents, were arrested INSIDE the Mexican congress on October 10, 2001 armed with 9mm pistols, 9 grenades, explosives, three detonators, and 58 bullets, but were RELEASED from custody because of pressure from the Israeli embassy

"We believe that the two Zionists terrorist were going to blow up the Mexican Congress. The second phase was to mobilize both the Mexican and US press to blame Osama bin Laden. Most likely then Mexico would declare war on Afghanistan as well, commit troops and all the oil it could spare to combat Islamic terrorism."
http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/2010/09/israel-did-9-11-all-proof-in-world.html

-------------------------------------------


Quote:

This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.




was wondering when you'd just start hurling pathetic dismissive insults.  apparently that's all you know how to do.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13967698 - 02/15/11 01:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

100% unlinked and unsupported bullshit.  Just go back to the tardhole.


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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13967986 - 02/15/11 02:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

every one one of those images is from a major news agency and is only a small sample of information revealing how muslim terrorism has been fabricated by Israeli and U.S. intelligence. 

you're in complete denial, ignoring anything that threatens your worldview, and reduced to sheepish insults as usual.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav] * 2
    #13968269 - 02/15/11 03:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
every one one of those images is from a major news agency and is only a small sample of information revealing how muslim terrorism has been fabricated by Israeli and U.S. intelligence.




Really?  They just look like pictures of middle eastern appearing people.
Quote:

   

you're in complete denial, ignoring anything that threatens your worldview, and reduced to sheepish insults as usual.




Nothing you have posted threatens me or my worldview in any way at all.  And apparently you feel the entire format of the Shroomery is an insult to you since there was a specific forum created for you and other similarly inclined posters.  It has a name.  "Conspiracy and Coverups"  Take your relentlessly stupid posts there where they belong.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13968668 - 02/15/11 04:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.




This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.




Another reply that appeals to irrational emotions.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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InvisibleShins
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13968833 - 02/15/11 04:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

On the issue of the iran constitution;

You will find that Both Canada and The USA (not sure about UK but i'm pretty sure it does) have similar clauses in theor constitution!

Quote:

The Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women (French: Ministre du Patrimoine canadien) is the Minister of the Crown in the Canadian Cabinet who heads the Department of Canadian Heritage, the federal government department responsible for Canada's Arts, Culture, Media, Communications network, and Sport.




Quote:

7. It is hereby affirmed that telecommunications performs an essential role in the maintenance of Canada’s identity and sovereignty and that the Canadian telecommunications policy has as its objectives
(a) to facilitate the orderly development throughout Canada of a telecommunications system that serves to safeguard, enrich and strengthen the social and economic fabric of Canada and its regions;





Quote:

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent agency of the United States government, created, Congressional statute (see 47 U.S.C. § 151 and 47 U.S.C. § 154), and with the majority of its commissioners appointed by the current President. The FCC works towards six goals in the areas of broadband, competition, the spectrum, the media, public safety and homeland security, and modernizing the FCC.[2]




Quote:

Partnerships with other governmental entities, with its regulated industries, and with certain trade associations are core to the FCC’s Homeland Security initiatives; FCC representatives actively participate in over 50 organizations that are concerned with Homeland Security at the international, national,  state, local, or tribal level.  In addition, Bureaus and Offices throughout the Commission regularly initiate actions that promote Homeland Security objectives. 





Aside from the homosexuality part.

The Iranian leaders seem to believe that homosexuality is more about nurture than nature, which i think is an opinion that has some merit, but that's probably a whole other thread.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Edited by Shins (02/15/11 04:56 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13969013 - 02/15/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Grav said:
yes, idiots readily view Iran as terrorist, based on testimonies of professional liars.  I bet you think those nasty terrorists in Iran take babies out of incubators and throw them on floors.

and i suppose you still believe some arabs with box-cutters did 9/11.  if you can't see through that mother of all lies, than i don't expect you to understand anything else.




This is why you are a laughingstock and should be banished forevermore to the cesspool of nitwittery known as the Conspiracy Forum.




Another reply that appeals to irrational emotions.



What emotions am I appealing to?


--------------------

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
imagine


Registered: 06/16/08
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13971874 - 02/16/11 01:45 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

AlphaFalfa said:




Shut up Zappa, you can be just as aggravating and you have no right delegating where a person should and shouldn't express themselves. Aren't you opposed to telling people what they should do, isn't that one of the fundamental problems with Iran?




You are clearly confused.

1.  There is a reason why there are different forums for different topics.  The Conspiracy and Coverup forum was invented precisely to provide a place for the deranged to opine freely.  It was created to give the lunatics a safe asylum and to spare the rest of us their raving and drooling stupidity.  And that is what believing that the CIA or the Mossad caused 9/11 is.  Raving and drooling stupidity.

2.  The fundamental problem with Iran is Iran.  It has nothing to do with anybody telling them what they should do.

3.  As far as me telling people what they should or should not do they would be well served to pay attention when I do.  Notice that me opining about what they should do is vastly different from me telling them what they must do.





Okay Zappa, thanks for clearing that up.


--------------------
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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13971886 - 02/16/11 01:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
On the issue of the iran constitution;

You will find that Both Canada and The USA (not sure about UK but i'm pretty sure it does) have similar clauses in theor constitution!

Quote:

The Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women (French: Ministre du Patrimoine canadien) is the Minister of the Crown in the Canadian Cabinet who heads the Department of Canadian Heritage, the federal government department responsible for Canada's Arts, Culture, Media, Communications network, and Sport.




Quote:

7. It is hereby affirmed that telecommunications performs an essential role in the maintenance of Canada’s identity and sovereignty and that the Canadian telecommunications policy has as its objectives
(a) to facilitate the orderly development throughout Canada of a telecommunications system that serves to safeguard, enrich and strengthen the social and economic fabric of Canada and its regions;





Quote:

The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent agency of the United States government, created, Congressional statute (see 47 U.S.C. § 151 and 47 U.S.C. § 154), and with the majority of its commissioners appointed by the current President. The FCC works towards six goals in the areas of broadband, competition, the spectrum, the media, public safety and homeland security, and modernizing the FCC.[2]




Quote:

Partnerships with other governmental entities, with its regulated industries, and with certain trade associations are core to the FCC’s Homeland Security initiatives; FCC representatives actively participate in over 50 organizations that are concerned with Homeland Security at the international, national,  state, local, or tribal level.  In addition, Bureaus and Offices throughout the Commission regularly initiate actions that promote Homeland Security objectives. 





Aside from the homosexuality part.

The Iranian leaders seem to believe that homosexuality is more about nurture than nature, which i think is an opinion that has some merit, but that's probably a whole other thread.





They are very interesting notes shin.

Thanks for that.

However, I have to disagree, because the president has once again, and done so in the past, shut down the internet, not allowed independent news agencies, put the opposing political party leaders under house arrest and also kills civilians during protests.

So its not really all that relevant considering that they are not following their constitution.

Or are they?

Well, when it says in a constitution that the government has the power to appropriate the mass forms of communication, in relation to the goals of the regime, it does not clarify what that means nor does it seem to involve the peoples sovereignty in the matter, which I think is a fundamental difference in Canadian and iranian constitutions.

Thoughts here?


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Shins]
    #13972109 - 02/16/11 03:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?

Please back up this claim you've made.




You don't prove a negative





First I must ask what the relevance is of this claim?  That Grav claimed something he cannot prove does not in the least relieve him of his burden of proof- it merely renders him logically unable to satisfy it.  As such, Grav's assertion is incorrect even granting, arguendo, your logical claim here.  This clearly means my challenge of Grav's incorrect assertion was also proper and in fact cannot be defeated.  The only thing unclear is how you justify posturing your reply as if it were a defense to Grav's statement given that you are necessarily arguing it is impossible for Grav to justify his claim or bear his burden of proof?

As to the veracity of your claim here, that Grav's claim was a negative and hence can't be proven logically, I doubt this and request you to back up your claims here.  What Grav did is make a statement of the form Iran IS 'x', where 'x' is "not a terrorist nation.  The negative form of the argument opposing the positive assertion that Iran is a terrorist nation would be as follows:  "It is untrue that Iran IS a terrorist nation".  This is the default position, or null hypothesis, that should be presumed whenever investigating matters.  This is not, at all, what Grav did.  Grave, rather than advancing the null hypothesis that the positive claim was false, took the contrary positive position of saying Iran was not a terrorist nation.  I've simply put him to his proof.


Since you've engaged me on this technical matter, I hope you will be kind enough to rebut this argument or concede your challenge was spurious.




Quote:

if you claim they are, it's up to you to prove it.




Please explain the relevance of this statement. 

As you've made this statement following the previous discussion and shown no relevance whatsoever, I can only presume that you imply that I have asserted that Iran is a terrorist nation and thereby bear the burden of this claim.  Please establish this premise in your reply or explain what the reelvance of your argument here is.

Quote:


The issue of western media bias (as well as yours) is a valid and relevant issue.




What does "(as well as yours)" mean?  I don't have 'media' nor do I control any media apparatus.  What are you talking about?  If you refer to a bias that I personally have, once more I'd ask you what the relevance of this statement is and how it could possibly be true?

If we grant your argument that I am biased, arguendo, how does that change anything?  How is it a relevant issue, as you claim?  As I am not asserting myself as an authority nor pushing conclusory remarks in lieu of argument, I cannot see what relevance my alleged bias is.  Frankly, it seems like just another ad hominem argument.


Quote:

The real issue is that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is against the racial supremacist state of Israel, and spits truth about western hypocrisy and deception.





Please back up you claim that Israel is a "racial supremacist state", and explain what the alleged fact that iran reveals western hypocrisy and deception has to do with anything.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #13972115 - 02/16/11 04:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

Iran isn't a terrorist nation?

Please back up this claim you've made.




You don't prove a negative, if you claim they are, it's up to you to prove it.




No kidding, right?
That's how fucking brainwashed we are.  The lies about terrorism are so sacrosanct.  I may as well have just said the sky isn't blue.






As you reply in endoresment of Shins' criticism of my claim, I would also ask you to justify the relvance of this criticism even it were true (as it argues your claim is bullshit- impossible that you could be justified in saying it).  Additionally, please justify the truth of the premise he bases his criticism on, which I have discussed in my reply to his post.  It seems quite plain that he is incorrect in saying the claim that "something is not so" is unable to be demonstrated- that it is a negative assertion unable to be proven.  Taking a look at an object, if you say "this object is not red" (where red is an object reflecting light at 550nm), it is a simple matter to prove you are wrong, that it is in fact red.  This is of the same form as your argument- an argument that is logically possible to prove yet I doubt factually able to be proven.

Had you doubted a positive claim that Iran is a terrorist nation rather than asserting the contrary positive claim, this would be a different matter.  Of course, this isn't what you did and not what you believe, as plain from your discussion.

Quote:

Apparently we have to prove a cabal of liars in western intelligence that fabricated this shit so much in the past, isn't lying again THIS time.




Please establish this argument as correct.  Once more your argument seems to be wholly fallacious.  Where did i assert that you must prove a cabal of liars in western intelligence that fabircated this shit previously is not lieing this time?

Even ignoring your ridiculous flourishes, where did I even argue that you must prove a cabal of western intelligence is not lieing- a far more conservative claim than that which you assert as being asked to do.

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OfflineGrav
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #13972362 - 02/16/11 06:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

john, i'm sorry the shroomery hasn't made a sub-forum on Syntax.  you must be having a hard time finding at outlet.

if you ever have any opinions/information to share i wouldn't mind reading it.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: Grav]
    #14007306 - 02/22/11 12:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Grav said:
john, i'm sorry the shroomery hasn't made a sub-forum on Syntax.  you must be having a hard time finding at outlet.

if you ever have any opinions/information to share i wouldn't mind reading it.





Please explain this remark.

It was your endorsement of Shins' argument that broached technical philosophical arguments- falsely claiming that your argument that Iran was not a terrorist nation was a negative argument of a type unable to be proven.  I meerly refuted that nonsense.

Now that we apparently, both, regard that excursion as pointless and Shins' argument as stupid, I suppose you can go ahead and back up your remarkable claims: that Iran is not a terrorist nation.  What basis do you have for saying this?

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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: iran and Nuclear Technology [Re: johnm214]
    #14007835 - 02/22/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

hahhaa

Don't even try John. This guy is a tool and fails to recognize that Iran is anti-freedom/sovereign rule, due to largely that it is in plain sight within its constitution.


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