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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes?
#13943565 - 02/11/11 03:00 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is liberalism in the genes? Recent research has found some biological underpinnings for conservative views: People who have stronger startle reflexes to loud sounds, and express more disgust at disturbing photos, tend to identify with the political Right. Now, scientists have isolated a gene that appears to be associated with having a liberal worldview. In a study of 2,000 students, researchers at Harvard and the University of California at San Diego found that people with the specific variant of a gene called DRD4 were more likely to have a liberal outlook--but only if they'd had a lot of friends when they were younger. People with this gene tend to seek out new experiences and get a rush of pleasure from novelty. This tendency, researchers say, opens them to friendships with people of different races, religions, sexual orientations, and lifestyles--making them receptive to change and to unconventional ideas. "It is the crucial interaction of two factors--the genetic predisposition and the environmental condition of having many friends in adolescence--that is associated with being more liberal," lead researcher James H. Fowler tells ScienceDaily.com. The study found that the genetic influence held true regardless of ethnicity, culture, or sex.
from the Nov. 19th, 2010 issue of The Week
I thought this was an interesting article primarily because it challenges the intuitive notion that one's political views are the result of purely rational thought; instead it seems that we have genetic predispositions that when combined with specific environments lead to our political worldviews. I can also see this result irritating the Right in general because it essentially concludes that they startle more easily and aren't as open to novel experiences and diverse friendships as the Left are. 
Your thoughts?
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GazzBut
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher] 3
#13944110 - 02/11/11 08:23 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well the research does seem to confirm some strong suspicions I have long held
-------------------- Always Smi2le
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marmarlun
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: GazzBut]
#13944252 - 02/11/11 09:00 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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wow, very interesting, thanks for posting.
Seems a little like shooting in the dark, for now though - after all, we call most dna 'junk' dna, simply because we don't know what it does. I mean to say take it with a grain of salt.
It makes sense that genetic predisposition could effect social/political disposition in some way, but the question is how big of a roll does it actually play?
I'm happy we live in an age where we can actually start looking at these questions
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Annapurna1
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: marmarlun]
#13945580 - 02/11/11 01:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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OT1H..this study is at best inconclusive...i see no reason why someone that "gets a rush of pleasure from novelty" would necessarily tilt left...
OTOH..it does make sense that right-wing brains must be wired very differently from left-wing brains.. given the rights' capacity to accept rupert murdochs' bullshit as gospel truth...this in turn raises the possibility that there are genetics that create different neuron linking functions...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Annapurna1]
#13945755 - 02/11/11 01:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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This from someone who thinks Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow are brilliant.
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johnm214


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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13945847 - 02/11/11 02:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
I thought this was an interesting article primarily because it challenges the intuitive notion that one's political views are the result of purely rational thought;
I know what you mean, but I don't know how much people would expect this. I would think a lot of people have political views for reasons more akin to those determining their faith- culture, family, friends, et cet.
Quote:
instead it seems that we have genetic predispositions that when combined with specific environments lead to our political worldviews.
I think this is a pretty big leap. This study showed that a particular class of people had an association between an allele and their politics as measured by some test (presumably self described or written test).
It doesn't show that the genes cause a particular view.
Perhaps those students in the study came from a few ethnic groups and those with the particular "liberal allele" were more likely to be from an ethnic group that traditionally supported particular positions as a culture.
Perhaps those with the allele are more interested in subjects viewed more introspective and liberal-artsy rather than practical traditional studies, and wind up getting forced into studies like this due to the courses they take, where there is a particularly liberal culture that influence their percieved norms during the dawn of their political consciousness in college (speculation, I'd have to look at the recruiting and selection factors, but since its students and a large number, I'd imagine those in particular courses are 'encouraged' to volunteer or forced to)
Quote:
I can also see this result irritating the Right in general because it essentially concludes that they startle more easily and aren't as open to novel experiences and diverse friendships as the Left are. 
It shows that amongst the particular subgroup of university students at a particular college (I'm guessing, haven't looked), an allele associated with novelty seekingn and acceptance is more common on those identified as liberals. It doesn't show why this is or whether the groups have different behaviors.
Either way, it does seem there's a distressing number of conservatives who just like to repress different cultures. These types seem to always trend towards the conservative nationalist parties and political views. I'm not so sure this is properly described as conservative, but maybe its always that way since these are also the people who tend to persecute their own countrymen for alternative beleifs, lifestyles, et cet? Who knows. One of the great hypocrisy of the "conservatives" and the "freedom" banner which the conservatives in America like to fly at their convenience.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: johnm214]
#13945879 - 02/11/11 02:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
instead it seems that we have genetic predispositions that when combined with specific environments lead to our political worldviews.
I think this is a pretty big leap. This study showed that a particular class of people had an association between an allele and their politics as measured by some test (presumably self described or written test).
It doesn't show that the genes cause a particular view.
Right, but it does show an interesting correlation. 
Quote:
johnm214 said: Perhaps those students in the study came from a few ethnic groups and those with the particular "liberal allele" were more likely to be from an ethnic group that traditionally supported particular positions as a culture.
From the article: "The study found that the genetic influence held true regardless of ethnicity, culture, or sex."
Quote:
johnm214 said: Perhaps those with the allele are more interested in subjects viewed more introspective and liberal-artsy rather than practical traditional studies, and wind up getting forced into studies like this due to the courses they take, where there is a particularly liberal culture that influence their percieved norms during the dawn of their political consciousness in college (speculation, I'd have to look at the recruiting and selection factors, but since its students and a large number, I'd imagine those in particular courses are 'encouraged' to volunteer or forced to)
Well, could be but I guess I have a little more faith that the sample is representative of the population at large.
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johnm214


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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13946015 - 02/11/11 02:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Perhaps those students in the study came from a few ethnic groups and those with the particular "liberal allele" were more likely to be from an ethnic group that traditionally supported particular positions as a culture.
From the article: "The study found that the genetic influence held true regardless of ethnicity, culture, or sex."
Ok, but its one thing to say it another for it to be true- though that doesn't take anything away from your point. I'm gonna try and track down the actual study and see how well this statement describes the reality of what the results actually show.
For example, even if the correlation to liberalism persists when comparing against others of the "same culture/ethnicity/whatever" and that such corrections sufficiently describe the major confounding factors influencing the people, this doesn't necessarily mean that it is because the allele determines political views. It could still be that their background is influential as a force: rather than the allele simply being correlated with a genetic group predominant in a particular culture with a particular political norm, it could be that the allele influences the desirability or undesirability of embracing their cultural views or rejecting them and rebelling against them. For example, if the allele causes some degree of curiosity and novelty seeking /acceptance of unfamiliar cultures and groups, political leanings (liberalism compared to a culture of conservative beliefs) could be one of these cultures more likely to be adopted. Rather than the gene influencing the political views, then, it may be a plausible explanation that the gene causes or is associated with rebelliousness- with the traditional views and politics being simply the culture rebelled against. This is an effect that would persist after correction for culture if all they did was see if the allele's effect persists when comparing groups of the same culture.
This wouldn't necessarily mean the study is misleading or the conclusions are poor, which I doubt, but that the news coverage of the same and its implications are a bit wanting.
So in this case, the background culture remains the signifigant political influence, with the gene simply being associated with acceptance or tendancy to reject a social norm- rather than having anything to do with politics or beliefs, views directly.
Quote:
Quote:
johnm214 said: Perhaps those with the allele are more interested in subjects viewed more introspective and liberal-artsy rather than practical traditional studies, and wind up getting forced into studies like this due to the courses they take, where there is a particularly liberal culture that influence their percieved norms during the dawn of their political consciousness in college (speculation, I'd have to look at the recruiting and selection factors, but since its students and a large number, I'd imagine those in particular courses are 'encouraged' to volunteer or forced to)
Well, could be but I guess I have a little more faith that the sample is representative of the population at large.
You think a bunch of students at a particular college is representative of the population at large? How about a bunch of students who self-selected social sciences as their area of study? I'm concerned the later may be, in effect, the population which would seem a bit divergent from the larger human experience. Its just speculation thoug, hopefully the study goes into some detail about the recruiting methodology and is frank about the tactics used and whom they were used against.
This again isn't neccesarily a lapse of the reserachers, as these kinds of problems in the population are a huge source of bias in studies and one of the more difficult factors to correct for in these types of studies, but it remains something to look out for as the news coverage seldom adequately reflects the conslusions of the study or the cautions and limitations the researchers urge.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#13946056 - 02/11/11 02:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: This from someone who thinks Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow are brilliant.
To be fair, Rachel is a genius.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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narcoticrex
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Gastronomicus]
#13946083 - 02/11/11 02:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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blah blah blah
just more bullshit to divide you from and make you different from your brother, while at the same time they homogenize you on mcdonalds and walmart.
if youve fallen for "the great divide", youve already lost the battle. Im surprised more people here dont know this!
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Gastronomicus]
#13946160 - 02/11/11 02:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gastronomicus said:
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zappaisgod said: This from someone who thinks Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow are brilliant.
To be fair, Rachel is a genius.
 http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1190878-msnbcs-maddow-punked-satirical-website.html No, she is just another benighted leftard.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13946212 - 02/11/11 03:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I saw that. They definitely bit hard. But seriously, a good portion of her commentary is rooted in sound logic, and she gives wonderful interviews. Being opinionated doesn't automatically disqualify someone from being intelligent, and compare her to some of the full on partisans (Hannity, Limbaugh, Olbermann) and it's apparent that she has a much better head on her shoulders. Also, I would probably hit that if given the chance.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Gastronomicus]
#13946315 - 02/11/11 03:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said:

I saw that. They definitely bit hard. But seriously, a good portion of her commentary is rooted in sound logic, and she gives wonderful interviews. Being opinionated doesn't automatically disqualify someone from being intelligent, and compare her to some of the full on partisans (Hannity, Limbaugh, Olbermann) and it's apparent that she has a much better head on her shoulders. Also, I would probably hit that if given the chance.
And she isn't a full on partisan? Hit that mannish dyke? You are one desperate dude. I wouldn't hit that with a club.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13946346 - 02/11/11 03:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I got a thing for girls with short hair
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
LAGM2024
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13946596 - 02/11/11 04:00 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: This from someone who thinks Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow are brilliant.
http://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/20217439367200768
Quote:
FYI: in reply to "highly ironic that you support Daily Kos yet think Fox News is slanted" I said: Fox News is 100% bullshit. And it is.
KO doesnt have to be that brilliant to claim that a dog barks.. or that a cat meows.. or that fox news is bullshit...
--------------------
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Annapurna1]
#13946913 - 02/11/11 04:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: This from someone who thinks Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow are brilliant.
http://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/20217439367200768
Quote:
FYI: in reply to "highly ironic that you support Daily Kos yet think Fox News is slanted" I said: Fox News is 100% bullshit. And it is.
KO doesnt have to be that brilliant to claim that a dog barks.. or that a cat meows.. or that fox news is bullshit...
Or that KOS is or Madcow or Tingles or the NY Times or the LA Times or the WaPo or you.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13946917 - 02/11/11 04:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Or ABC CBS NBC CNN MSNBC. This could go on a bit.
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Gastronomicus
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13947109 - 02/11/11 05:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I read the NYT, Al Jazeera, and various other blogs that get posted. Most of the blogs are bullshit, NYT are decently liberal (I <3 Krugman), and Al Jazeera has a distinctly anti-american bias. Over all I like interviews best for my information because you get a better sense of the source's personality and agenda, it's easier to read a person then it is to read an article. That's one of the reasons I enjoy Maddow, she asks the sort of question that I would like to see asked. It is also very important to get your information from multiple sources and to use that to form your opinions. Too many people get caught up in the same news source and allow it to dominate their opinions.
-------------------- Make my Funk the P Funk, I wants to get Funked up
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AlphaFalfa
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13947157 - 02/11/11 05:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Is liberalism in the genes? Recent research has found some biological underpinnings for conservative views: People who have stronger startle reflexes to loud sounds, and express more disgust at disturbing photos, tend to identify with the political Right. Now, scientists have isolated a gene that appears to be associated with having a liberal worldview. In a study of 2,000 students, researchers at Harvard and the University of California at San Diego found that people with the specific variant of a gene called DRD4 were more likely to have a liberal outlook--but only if they'd had a lot of friends when they were younger. People with this gene tend to seek out new experiences and get a rush of pleasure from novelty. This tendency, researchers say, opens them to friendships with people of different races, religions, sexual orientations, and lifestyles--making them receptive to change and to unconventional ideas. "It is the crucial interaction of two factors--the genetic predisposition and the environmental condition of having many friends in adolescence--that is associated with being more liberal," lead researcher James H. Fowler tells ScienceDaily.com. The study found that the genetic influence held true regardless of ethnicity, culture, or sex.
from the Nov. 19th, 2010 issue of The Week
I thought this was an interesting article primarily because it challenges the intuitive notion that one's political views are the result of purely rational thought; instead it seems that we have genetic predispositions that when combined with specific environments lead to our political worldviews. I can also see this result irritating the Right in general because it essentially concludes that they startle more easily and aren't as open to novel experiences and diverse friendships as the Left are. 
Your thoughts?
Ridiculous because it assumes everyone has the same information concerning the issues that affect on, with which they form their political affiliations with.
Meaning that it presumes everyone is engaged in the same news sources, research sources, etc.
Thats ridiculous.
If you really think about it, imagine everyone knew about the environmental problems that are going to affect us all pretty soon?
Do you honestly think they would stay conservative when their officials do not even look 5 years down the road and focus almost completely on the economy?
Absurd.
But funny nonetheless.
-------------------- if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...
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deCypher



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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: AlphaFalfa]
#13947161 - 02/11/11 05:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Caring about the environment is only a small part of one's political beliefs though.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: zappaisgod]
#13947233 - 02/11/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Or ABC CBS NBC CNN MSNBC. This could go on a bit.
KO isnt even on MSNBC anymore...
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Gastronomicus]
#13947360 - 02/11/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gastronomicus said: (I <3 Krugman)

Quote:
Too many people get caught up in the same news source and allow it to dominate their opinions.
I agree. As a general piece of advice to anybody who wants to understand what is going on NEVER WATCH ANY TV CABLE OR OTHERWISE. I don't. I highly recommend the National Review for any explorers. Lost liberals can go to their usual peep shows.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Annapurna1]
#13947379 - 02/11/11 06:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Or ABC CBS NBC CNN MSNBC. This could go on a bit.
KO isnt even on MSNBC anymore...
Yeah, he's a part owner of Al Gore's failed cable channel. I'm seeing "Hail Mary" by both of them.
Aside from what I think about his intellect or politics there seems to be an overwhelming consensus that he is a complete and utter dick to work with.
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ScavengerType


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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13951589 - 02/12/11 02:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Despite early findings of an association between the DRD4 48bp VNTR and novelty seeking (a characteristic of exploratory and excitable people)[12][13], a 2008 meta-analysis compared 36 published studies of novelty seeking and the polymorphism and found no effect. The meta-analysis of 11 studies did find that another polymorphism in the gene, the -521C/T, showed an association with novelty seeking.[14] In any case, novelty-seeking behavior is probably mediated by several genes, and the variance attributable to DRD4 by itself is not particularly large.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRD4#Novelty_seeking
It's possible the elimination factor of social stimulation during adolescence was what changed the data-set. It would be interesting to see what prompted this analysis, if they looked at multiple factors that could effect it or just specifically this one. I should say that this wikipedia entry is not indicative of new data from this study yet.
This is a dopamine receptor gene so it is pretty powerful in regulating what causes behavior.
I should caution that in actuality the liberalism from this gene is more likely to be classical liberalism, it wold not make the person vote democrat. However it may prompt response from mantras like "Change" used in Obama's 2008 Campaign. Also those attributes found heavily among "conservatives" (republicans) cited in the article do sound a lot like the stimulus/narrative popular on fox news.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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deCypher



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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: ScavengerType]
#13959188 - 02/14/11 12:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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More interesting differences between liberals and conservatives:
Quote:
Looking like a liberal
The eyes, a new study says, are windows to a person's political beliefs. When two people converse, their gazes commonly wander, and each will often glance to see what the other is looking at. University of Nebraska researchers found that liberals are more likely to follow these "gaze cues" than conservatives are. The researchers asked subjects to view a face on a computer screen; from time to time another object would appear elsewhere on the screen. If the face appeared to be looking at the new objects, subjects with politically liberal views were much faster to follow the face's gaze, to see what it was looking at. The authors theorize that conservatives place a higher value on personal autonomy than liberals do, and so are less likely to be interested in other people's opinions--hence their disinterest in gaze cues. The study doesn't establish whether political orientation determines a person's interest in other views or vice versa, psychologist and study author Michael Dodd tells LiveScience.com, but it's "another piece of evidence that biology can influence political temperament."
from the January 14th, 2011 issue of The Week
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Batty Koda
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13979286 - 02/17/11 03:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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What is this "right" and "left" you speak of? Is it something to do with the colour of your tie?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Batty Koda]
#13979729 - 02/17/11 04:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you aren't being facetious, left = liberal and right = conservative.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Batty Koda
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13980253 - 02/17/11 05:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: If you aren't being facetious, left = liberal and right = conservative.
But don't people say Stalin was extremely left wing, doesn't that mean he was a massive liberal? And aren't conservatives supposed to want to preserve tradition by slowing down change? But Hitler and the Bush family are "right wing" and they want a "new world order".
Ok I'm being facetious.
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Icelander
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher]
#13986211 - 02/18/11 06:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: If you aren't being facetious, left = liberal and right = conservative.
I'm liberal on a few things and conservative on some. Is that in my genes?
I'm not at all impressed by full on liberals or conservatives.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Icelander]
#13986237 - 02/18/11 06:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Me neither; strict adherence to the party line without free thought is inane IMO.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: deCypher] 1
#13987210 - 02/18/11 09:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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We just don't fit in around here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief


Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Why Some People Go Left: is liberalism in the genes? [Re: Annapurna1] 1
#13987716 - 02/18/11 11:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said: OT1H..this study is at best inconclusive...i see no reason why someone that "gets a rush of pleasure from novelty" would necessarily tilt left...
OTOH..it does make sense that right-wing brains must be wired very differently from left-wing brains.. given the rights' capacity to accept rupert murdochs' bullshit as gospel truth...this in turn raises the possibility that there are genetics that create different neuron linking functions...
anna your destined to marry a conservative, id bet you anything
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