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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Organic compost elemental proportions
    #1394176 - 03/20/03 06:15 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I live near an organic compost store where they can mix up whatever propotions of magnisum, nitrogen, and phosperus you need. (you know those charts 1-5-1,, or 2-5-2, i'm not sure what the order is.
i was wondering if anybody knew the optimal proprtions need for various species of compost loving mushrooms. i'm sure it would be high in phosperus being that mushrooms love the stuff soo much, does anyone have an exact figure?


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


Edited by RadioActiveSlug (03/20/03 09:01 AM)


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OfflineEightball
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Registered: 07/21/01
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Re: Organic compost proportions [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1394216 - 03/20/03 06:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

the compost i've used in the past was just .5-.5-.5 and it works just fine. and those numbers are Nitrogen-Phosphorus-Potassium


--------------------
If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Registered: 03/14/03
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Re: Organic compost proportions [Re: Eightball]
    #1394677 - 03/20/03 08:50 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

And that was for cubensis?
I'm sure that multiple variations would work, but I really wanna know what would be optimal, for cubensis, Pan Cyan, and Pan Subb
i haven't been able to find any information on this

and what about secondary elements:
calcium, magnisum, and sulfer?

and the micro nutriants"
Boron, Copper, Iron, manganese, molybdemum, and zinc?

For educational purposes only of course.



--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


Edited by RadioActiveSlug (03/20/03 08:59 AM)


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InvisibleLanaV
Head Banana
Female

Registered: 10/28/99
Posts: 3,086
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
Re: Organic compost elemental proportions [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1394770 - 03/20/03 09:31 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Good question, I'd be interested in knowing this too :smile:

Lana


--------------------
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http://www.MycoSupply.com

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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Re: Organic compost elemental proportions [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1400155 - 03/22/03 09:54 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

and you call yourselves mycologists?


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Organic compost elemental proportions [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1401065 - 03/22/03 05:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I don't call my foaf one of them there myco-whatcha-ma-call-it.........dudes.

(takes sip of J/D & coke, & does a bong hit) :grin:

Nor does my foaf think you are one. :smirk:

Otherwise you would know what you are talking about CANNOT BE "organic" compost. Because you cannot simply blend in those things you refer to, on a moments notice, unless they are "synthetic". NOT ORGANIC

That is unless they have a large tonnage (each) of hundreds of differing "organic" composts on site, then know their exact componets & are capable of blending then, then instantly testing them en mass to come up with the exacting qualitative analisis you refer to.

The little old compost my foaf makes returns this: carbon / nitrogen ratio <17:1, nitrogen 2.6%, phosphorus 0.2-05%, potassium 1.5-2.5%, calcium 1.5-2.5%, available boron <2 ppm, available ammonium <10 ppm, soluble salts 3.0-5 OdS/m.

Here is what it looks like when done:

And, here is the size shrooms he gets off it:

It is not uncommon to have a few 125 to 150 gram shrooms in the mix (EQ).


As far as adding micro & macro nutes & trace minerals, that can be accomplished by adding a certain amount of "kelp" meal & hot air popped pop/corn to the raw compost material.

I. Guidelines for calculating pre/compost nitrogen (N) content:
Calculate the starting N content of pile to be 1.5 to 1.7% before composting. The starting N for a synthetic compost formulas may be slightly higher than the wheat straw horse manure formulas. The percent N will increase throughout Phase I composting and Phase II and at spawning time the N content of the compost should be 2.1-2.6 %.

Knowing the N and % moisture of the bulk ingredients and supplements will increase the accuracy of the calculated and finished nitrogen content. If supplements are added by volume, occasionally weigh volume added to confirm calculated formula.

At the end of Phase I and again at the end of Phase II, compost may be analyzed for N, ammonia, ash and moisture. It is important to take a representative samples, several small handfuls thoroughly mixed. When taking a sample do not shake the compost.

II. Examples of Mushroom Compost Formulas

Horse manure pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 80 T 50 T 1.2% 0.6 T
Poultry manure 7.5 T 6.0 T 4 % 0.24 T
Brewers Grains 2.5 T 2.5 T 4 % 0.1 T
Gypsum 1.25 T 1.25 T 0  0
59.75 T  0.94 ? 59.75 = 1.57%


Synthetic pile
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Hay 15 T 12.8 T 2.0 % 0.26 T
Cobs 15 T 12.8 T 0.3 % 0.04 T
Poultry manure 3.8 T 2.4 T 4 % 0.09 T
NH4NO3  0.3 T 0.3 T 32% 0.10 T
Potash 0.3 T 0.3 T 0.0 0.00
Gypsum 0.6 T 0.6 T 0.0 0.00
29.2 T  0.49 ? 29.2 = 1.68%


Horse manure-synthetic blend
Ingredients Wet Wt. Dry Wt. %N Tons N
Horse manure 15 T  10.5 T  1.2% 0.13 
Hay 7.5 T  6.3 T  1.1% 0.07 
Corn Cobs 7.5 T  6.4 T  0.3% 0.02 
Brewer's grains 3.0 T  3.0 T  4.0% 0.12 
Poultry manure 2.0 T  2.0 T  4.5% 0.09 
Urea 0.1 T  0.1 T  44.0% 0.06 
Potash 0.2 T  0.2 T  0.0% 0.00 
Gypsum 1.0 T  1.0 T  0.0% 0.00 
  29.5  0.49 ? 29.5 = 1.66%

III. Suggested watering procedures during composting:

Add as much water as possible without run off during pre-wet conditioning or during the first two turns.  Avoid adding too much water early during Phase I, always be able to control moisture. Add only enough during next turn or turns to wet dry spots. Bring up compost moisture to desired water content by adequate watering just before filling.

During pre-wet it is advisable to flip or turn the compost every day. After the rick or pile is built, the compost should be turn every other day unless pile temperatures have not peaked.

IV.  Changes in organic matter, carbohydrates and nitrogen during mushroom composting.

Soluble carbohydrates are simply adsorbed by the micro-organisms and it is converted into new living matter or provides energy for the cells. As these micro-organism grow energy in the form of heat is released.

As the pile heats to temperature above 150o F the activities occurring within the pile change from biological to chemical reactions. It is at these higher temperatures that carmelization takes place. Carmelization is the process where water is eliminated from the carbohydrates and carbon is concentrated. This process can be compared to boiling sap down to make maple sugar.

V. Phase I is considered complete when as soon as the raw ingredients become pliable and are capable of holding water, the odor of ammonia is sharp and the dark brown color indicates carmelization and browning reactions have occurred.

Moisture content at filling should be 70-73%. Water should drip from compost squeezed in the hand. But a good rule of thumb to follow is: the longer, greener or more coarse the compost then more moisture it can take. The shorter, more mature or dense the compost the less water it should have.

The shorter or wetter the compost, the more loosely it should be filled into the beds or trays. The longer or greener the compost, the more it can be firmed into the beds. Attempt to fill uniformly in both depth and compaction. Edges or sideboards should be packed slightly tighter, whereas the center should remain looser.

VI.  Phase II composting has two objectives:

Pasteurization - elimination of undesirable insect pest, microbes and pathogens.

Conditioning - Creation of specific food for the mushroom and creating a selective and suppressive compost to favor the growth of the mushroom.
VII. Insure adequate ventilation during Phase II. When in doubt, ventilate. A flame should be burn at all times.

The higher the nitrogen content of compost, the greener the compost or the more dry weight at filling time, the greater the ventilation required. When outside temperature is high as in summer or early fall, more ventilation is required than when Phase II occurs during the cold winter weather. This is especially important when the grower does not have a forced air ventilation system.

VIII. During Phase II keep compost in the temperature range where microorganisms grow best (115-140o F).

Microbes convert ammonia and ammonia containing salts into protein and other nitrogen compounds the mushroom uses for food. The growth of these microbes depends on having the available food, adequate moisture, sufficient oxygen and suitable temperature. A shortage of one of these requirements will limit growth and often results in incomplete conditioning.

IX.  Heat up (pasteurization) for insect kill early in Phase II (perhaps 1-4 days after filling) so as to avoid a second heating cycle of the compost.

A good indication that the compost is ready to pasteurized, is the subsiding of microbial activity, which is indicated by a decrease in compost temperature at the same air temperature.

X. After pasteurization slowly lower compost through the temperature ranges of the microorganisms. A general rule is to lower compost temperature no more than 4-5o F. per day.

Provided that enough food, water and oxygen the microbes will continue to grow. Different microbes use different compounds and grow at different temperatures. Therefore it is important to make sure all areas of the beds and room gradually drop through all temperatures ranges.

Thermophillic fungi grow at lower temperatures and are important because they are able to grow into denser areas of compost.

XI. Composting is considered compete when no trace of ammonia odor can be detected and the compost has a uniform flecking of white colonies of actinomycetes, called fire-fang. The N content on a dry wt. basis should be in the range of 2.0 to 2.6.

6T (aka Mycota)
 


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Organic compost elemental proportions [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1401123 - 03/22/03 06:09 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

GOOD LINK

6T (aka Mycota)


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Re: Organic compost elemental proportions [Re: SixTango]
    #1401229 - 03/22/03 07:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

kick ass!    :laugh: 


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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