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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 2 months, 27 days
The propaganda war is on
    #1393498 - 03/20/03 12:50 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

CNN reports: "U.S.: Patriot missile downs Iraqi Scud over Kuwait"
Very convenient to show the world that the war makes sense. I guess we will know the truth only few years after the war.
I seriously doubt that the Patriot missile downed a Scud. We now know that none of the scuds were intercepted by Patriots in the first gulf war. Well maybe they got lucky this time. :smirk:
The Patriot missile effectiveness is a perfect example of media scam. It took many years before the truth leaked to public.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: zeronio]
    #1393503 - 03/20/03 12:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i heard they intercepted a light aircraft, not a scud...it's cnn take it with a grain of salt.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: zeronio]
    #1393505 - 03/20/03 12:57 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The Patriot missiles now are programmed to go head on with the opposing missile, not to just explode and hope it goes another way. Technology changes in 12 years.

On another note, they DO have Scud Missiles. Missiles they denied having. So hmmmmmm.....


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Offlinekykeon
Dead wishes

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1,506
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Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: zeronio]
    #1393509 - 03/20/03 01:00 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i just heard that Iraqi missiles targeted on Kuwait had a result of one dead man in Kuwait. dunno if its true. in fact, nothin is true, all is shit


--------------------
The living ghost of Kykeon


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Anonymous

Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: zeronio]
    #1393975 - 03/20/03 05:07 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

the propaganda war has been on for a long time.

hehe... back in Gulf War I, Bush I said that we were downing all kinds of scuds will patriots. it turned out to be a blatant lie.


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Offlineflow
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Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: ]
    #1394070 - 03/20/03 05:37 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hehe... back in Gulf War I, Bush I said that we were downing all kinds of scuds will patriots. it turned out to be a blatant lie.



not a blatant lie, most top military officials actually believed it to be true, so i do not doubt that Bush did as well.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: flow]
    #1394111 - 03/20/03 05:48 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

hehe... back in Gulf War I, Bush I said that we were downing all kinds of scuds will patriots. it turned out to be a blatant lie.



not a blatant lie, most top military officials actually believed it to be true, so i do not doubt that Bush did as well.



* COUGH * *COUGH* BULLSHIT! Sorry, it was widely reported in Europe at the time that the Patriots weren't working. I know, my wife is from The Netherlands and was living there at the time, I was in constant correspondence with her. The scuds were just such terrible pieces of shit that they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn either.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblechodamunky
Cheers!

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
Re: The propaganda war is on [Re: ]
    #1394532 - 03/20/03 08:11 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I wonder if they are gonna pull another "Iraqi soldiers took babies from incubators and left them on the floor of the hospital" horse shit that was widely spread by the media during the Gulf War. Propaganda like this makes me sick but it obviously proved effective.


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Offlinezeronio
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Fisk: Iraq - The Human Cost, Flies That Feed Off The Dead [Re: chodamunky]
    #1396208 - 03/20/03 08:04 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

if what we saw was shown on television, no one would ever again agree to
support a war.

I rage at this contrivance. At Qaa in 1996, when the Israelis had
shelled Lebanese refugees at the UN compound for 17 minutes, killing 106
civilians, more than half of them children, I came across a young woman
holding in her arms a middle-aged man. He was dead. "My father, my
father," she kept crying, cradling his face. One of his arms and one of
his legs was missing - the Israelis used proximity shells which cause
amputation wounds - but when that scene reached television screens in
Europe and America, the camera was close up on the girl and the dead
man's face. The amputations were not to be seen. The cause of death had
been erased in the interests of good taste. It was as if the old man had
died of tiredness, just turned his head upon his daughter's shoulder to
die in peace.


But George Bush and Tony Blair and Dick Cheney and Jack Straw and all
the other little warriors who are bamboozling us into war will not have
to think of these vile images.


No one says sorry after war. No one acknowledges the truth of it. No one
shows you what we see. Which is how our leaders and our betters persuade
us - still - to go to war.


Published on Sunday, January 26, 2003 by the lndependent/UK
<http://www.independent.co.uk/>

The Human Cost
'Does Tony Have Any Idea What the Flies are Like That Feed Off the Dead?'
by Robert Fisk


On the road to Basra, ITV was filming wild dogs as they tore at the
corpses of the Iraqi dead. Every few seconds a ravenous beast would rip
off a decaying arm and make off with it over the desert in front of us,
dead fingers trailing through the sand, the remains of the burned
military sleeve flapping in the wind.

"Just for the record,'' the cameraman said to me. Of course. Because ITV
would never show such footage. The things we see - the filth and
obscenity of corpses - cannot be shown. First because it is not
"appropriate" to depict such reality on breakfast-time TV. Second
because, if what we saw was shown on television, no one would ever again
agree to support a war.

That of course was in 1991. The "highway of death", they called it -
there was actually a parallel and much worse "highway of death" 10 miles
to the east, courtesy of the US Air Force and the RAF, but no one turned
up to film it - and the only true picture of the horrors we saw was the
photograph of the shriveled, carbonized Iraqi soldier in his truck. This
was an iconic illustration of a kind because it did represent what we
had seen, when it was eventually published.

For Iraqi casualties to appear on television during that Gulf War -
there was another one between 1980 and 1988, and a third is in the
offing - it was necessary for them to have died with care, to have
fallen romantically on their backs, one hand over a ruined face. Like
those First World War paintings of the British dead on the Somme, Iraqis
had to die benignly and without obvious wounds, without any kind of
squalor, without a trace of shit or mucus or congealed blood, if they
wanted to make it on to the morning news programs.

I rage at this contrivance. At Qaa in 1996, when the Israelis had
shelled Lebanese refugees at the UN compound for 17 minutes, killing 106
civilians, more than half of them children, I came across a young woman
holding in her arms a middle-aged man. He was dead. "My father, my
father," she kept crying, cradling his face. One of his arms and one of
his legs was missing - the Israelis used proximity shells which cause
amputation wounds - but when that scene reached television screens in
Europe and America, the camera was close up on the girl and the dead
man's face. The amputations were not to be seen. The cause of death had
been erased in the interests of good taste. It was as if the old man had
died of tiredness, just turned his head upon his daughter's shoulder to
die in peace.

Today, when I listen to the threats of George Bush against Iraq and the
shrill moralistic warnings of Tony Blair, I wonder what they know of
this terrible reality. Does George, who declined to serve his county in
Vietnam, have any idea what these corpses smell like? Does Tony have the
slightest conception of what the flies are like, the big bluebottles
that feed on the dead of the Middle East, and then come to settle on our
faces and our notepads?

Soldiers know. I remember one British officer asking to use the BBC's
satellite phone just after the liberation of Kuwait in 1991. He was
talking to his family in England and I watched him carefully. "I have
seen some terrible things," he said. And then he broke down, weeping and
shaking and holding the phone dangling in his hand over the transmission
set. Did his family have the slightest idea what he was talking about?
They would not have understood by watching television.

Thus can we face the prospect of war. Our glorious, patriotic population
- albeit only about 20 per cent in support of this particular Iraqi
folly - has been protected from the realities of violent death. But I am
much struck by the number of letters in my postbag from veterans of the
Second World War, men and women, all against this new Iraqi war, with an
inalienable memory of torn limbs and suffering.

I remember once a wounded man in Iran, a piece of steel in his forehead,
howling like an animal - which is, of course, what we all are - before
he died; and the Palestinian boy who simply collapsed in front of me
when an Israeli soldier shot him dead, quite deliberately, coldly,
murderously, for throwing a stone; and the Israeli with a chair leg
sticking out of her stomach outside the Sbarro pizzeria in Jerusalem
after a Palestinian bomber had decided to execute the families inside;
and the heaps of Iraqi dead at the Battle of Dezful in the Iran-Iraq war
- the stench of their bodies wafted through our helicopter until the
mullahs aboard were sickened; and the young man showing me the thick
black trail of his daughter's blood outside Algiers where armed
"Islamists" had cut her throat.

But George Bush and Tony Blair and Dick Cheney and Jack Straw and all
the other little warriors who are bamboozling us into war will not have
to think of these vile images. For them it's about surgical strikes,
collateral damage and all the other examples of war's linguistic
mendacity. We are going to have a just war; we are going to liberate the
people of Iraq - some of whom we will obviously kill - and we are going
to give them democracy and protect their oil wealth and stage war crimes
trials and we are going to be ever so moral, and we are going to watch
our defense"experts" on TV with their bloodless sandpits and their
awesome knowledge of weapons which rip off heads.

Come to think of it, I recall the head of an Albanian refugee, chopped
neatly off when the Americans, ever so accidentally, bombed a refugee
convoy in Kosovo in 1999 which they thought was a Serb military unit.
His head lay in the long grass, bearded, eyes open, severed as if by a
Tudor executioner. Months later, I learned his name and talked to the
girl who was hit by the severed head during the US air strike and who
laid the head reverently in the grass where I found it. Nato, of course,
did not apologize to the family. Nor to the girl. No one says sorry
after war. No one acknowledges the truth of it. No one shows you what we
see. Which is how our leaders and our betters persuade us - still - to
go to war.


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