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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters
#13929526 - 02/08/11 07:25 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Today I made up two supplemented sawdust substrate blocks using RR's videos, and placed the tyvek sleeve in the gusset of the bag before PCing for 2 hours at 15PSI. 5-6 hours later I open the PC to remove the blocks only to find that no vacuum has been formed and the substrate is exposed to open air. I plan to re-PC for another hour after re-adjusting the sleeves and trying to get them folded accordion style a few more times.
Anyone else have issues with RR's method at first? Should my sleeve cover the entire width of the filter patch bag?
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pepper
SawDust Block Junkie



Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 646
Loc: British Columbia
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13929645 - 02/08/11 07:49 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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When I did my bags a week or so ago I put the sleeve to one side of the gusset. The sleeve covered the entire width of the gusseted bag. I let my PC cool over night. The bags still felt warm in the morning.
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Edited by pepper (02/08/11 11:18 PM)
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: pepper]
#13929661 - 02/08/11 07:52 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Im using different bags then the ones you sent pepper, the sleeve is like 1-2 inches short of covering the entire width of the bags.
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lipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13929668 - 02/08/11 07:54 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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When I do use the sleeves I span them across the entire width folded three times over on top with a clothes pin on each side. I don't understand why you need to re-PC them just put them in front of that hood you have and open them up for spawning.. I don't get a vacuum with my sleeve loaded bags ever probably because I do a slow cool down.. I do like that the plastic doesn't stick together though and that the tyvek helps to filter. I actually quite often spawn these bags in the open air of a fairly clean carpeted room thats closed off to drafts with 100% success. I am just really quick about it and never open the bags where the opening is pointing strait up in the air. Always at the best possible angle I feel comfortable with without making a mess.
Lipa
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13929916 - 02/08/11 08:37 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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The sleeve need not fill the entire fold.
It sounds like you failed to put enough weight on top of the bag to hold it closed. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: lipa]
#13929917 - 02/08/11 08:37 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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When inspecting them I shifted the sleeve on the one bag and I feel that unsterile air has gotten into that bag. I took both bags out and realigned the sleeve, and tried to make a few more folds in the top of the bag. Im most likely over reacting and things should be fine but I would rather PC for another hour to be sure to kill any contaminates that made there way in surface level.
Thanks for the information and tips with the cloths pins, I will be sure to try that out next time around. I plan to let the PC cool overnight and inoculate in front of my flowhood tomorrow morning.
I was just surprised when a vacuum was not formed and paranoid of getting contaminates in my bag.
Thanks again for your input.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13929940 - 02/08/11 08:39 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: The sleeve need not fill the entire fold.
It sounds like you failed to put enough weight on top of the bag to hold it closed. RR
The first bag was placed on jar rings to get it above the water line and keep direct heat off it, then I placed a few more jar rings ontop of that bag before placing the second bag in(I have a 23Qt PC). I used a dinner plate ontop of that. Maybe next time 2-3 dinner plates?
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pepper
SawDust Block Junkie



Registered: 10/31/10
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13929963 - 02/08/11 08:42 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
EvilMushroom666 said: I plan to re-PC for another hour after re-adjusting the sleeves and trying to get them folded accordion style a few more times.
The first time you PCed them how many times did you accordion folds did you do? I think I did 3 folds and the end of the sleeve was sticking out 4" and did a fold in that. Than I covered the bags with a plate to weight them down so the would not unfold in the PC. When they came out the bag did not seem like it was vacuum packed, the sawdust was loose. When I inoculated them and pulled the sleeve out the accordion part seemed to have a vacuum. The bags seem to doing well? Sorry for the partial jacked thread.

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EvilMushroom666
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Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: pepper]
#13930012 - 02/08/11 08:48 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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No worries, its all relevant.
The first run I did maybe 2 folds to be honest with you, I figured that might have been the problem. I have them PCing now, with about 4-5 folds. I still only placed a dinner plate on top to keep the bags from opening, like RR said I may need more weight. Next time I do some bags(early next week) I will try to add more weight.
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hamloaf
Pork Block



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,584
Loc: Oklahoma.
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13930067 - 02/08/11 08:56 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Roger's right. You have to stuff those bags in there tight.
When doing 2 bags at a time, use an extra canning rack or porcelain dinner plate to place on top of the bags. Next place a 5-10 Olympic weight on top of the plate. That'll depress the bags enough that you'll have a vacuum between the bags and sleeves after being pressure cooked everytime.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: hamloaf]
#13930129 - 02/08/11 09:05 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Thanks for the advice Hamloaf. I do not have any weights kicking around so I will have to find something else that I can use but it sounds like the weight is my issue.
Hopefully I can salvage these bags and get them colonized with reishi without any contamination.
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lipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13930132 - 02/08/11 09:06 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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I always cook my sawdust bags for 2.5 hours. Then I take the bags out in the same room usually after the hood has been running for about an hour and set all the bags to the side of the hood on the table that has been disinfected after the vessel is cooled. One by one I put them in front of the hood and open them up and throw a quart jar of grain in each one and seal the bag by bringing the bag backwards butt end to me until the bag is partially inflated and the neck of the bag is in position to be sealed with the sealer which is closest to me (The opening of the bag is always open to the front of the face of the hood and never held backwards). I maybe get one bad bag every 4-5 months out of hundreds. If I am inoculating grain bags I take the bags out of the cooker one by one (sometimes two) keeping the lid on the cooker in between at the very least or open the cooker in front of the hood and work solely in front of the hood.
I am just telling you this to give you an idea of what works for me. You might need to adjust your situation to your environment.
Lipa
I am not saying RR or Hamloaf is wrong. I myself find putting a weight in the cooker that i have to pull out of the cooker unnecessary. I just like the idea that the bags don't stick together. I never pull bags out of the sterilizer when they are warm either. Always after they have been completely cooled.
Edited by lipa (02/08/11 09:12 PM)
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: lipa]
#13930184 - 02/08/11 09:14 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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I greatly appreciate you sharing your methods with me lipa, I love seeing how different people go about things, I always seem to pick up little hints, tips and tricks that I then apply to my own methods and procedures. Sometimes it works great, other times it does not but I do agree that sometimes what works for one might not work for others due to many variables and factors.
I plan to let my PC cool overnight, and tomorrow morning I will run my hood for an hour, clean up the air and then open my PC in front of its flow. I have 2Qts of reishi grain spawn one for each bag and I am hoping they turn out a little better then my last try with reishi.
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#13930782 - 02/08/11 10:56 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Once you get the tyvek sleeve thing down, you can open your cooker in a non-sterile room and remove the bags. My 55 gallon drum sterilizer is in the back yard, and I load the sterilized bags into a wheelbarrow for the trip back to the house. The sleeves keep the bags sealed and protected. I use them in grain bags too in the 75X.
In the picture below you can see the tyvek sleeves in the bags and the angle iron that is placed over the bags to keep weight on top. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tyvek Sleeves as Substrate Block Filters [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13930834 - 02/08/11 11:06 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Its all a learning curve, every time I try a new technique I learn something and progress.
I am very jealous of your sterilizer and look forward to building my own in the future(Keeping an eye out for suitable drums at auction).
For right now I have 2 23Qt. pressure cookers to get me by. If I run both at the same time I can do up to 14 Qt jars of grain spawn, or sterilize 4 substrate bags.
I planned to start selling mushroom kits locally in the spring, but with the way things are going, dealing with real life and finding time for this hobby the kit idea will have to wait. I am considering selling dowel spawn to local plant nurseries, is a much smaller venture that will allow me to start banking some savings for future business ventures.
I will start planning to sell Shiitake/oyster/reishi kits when I have several successful grows under my belt, and have put in the research and documentation to allow others to be successful.
Im going to keep an eye out for some weights to place on top of my bags for the next round. Thanks for the advice, as always.
Edited by EvilMushroom666 (02/08/11 11:11 PM)
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