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Offlinealbertz
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Registered: 07/10/10
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14046229 - 02/28/11 11:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you can try cobra venom also, buy Cobroxin at any drugstore, like 20 dollars for a bottle..and there is a prescription strength also...

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: albertz]
    #14047063 - 03/01/11 06:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Cobroxin isn't nearly potent enough to work.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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InvisiblePinback
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14048396 - 03/01/11 12:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Have the results in the Holliday paper ever been verified with some sort of genetic analysis? I can only find one reference to the method in the primary literature, and it is that paper.
Considering the doubts regarding Hollidays Dictyophora paper, I think this is a valid question.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: Pinback] * 1
    #14051183 - 03/01/11 09:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ask him.

In my case, it enabled monokaryotic mycelium to crawl across 20 year old spores that refused to germinate, and grab a mate.  As soon as the monokaryotic mycelium reached the area of spores, two strains of rhizomorphic dikaryotic mycelium emerged.  The same experiment without snake venom had failed several times, as had every other procedure I tried, such as pressure hydration, heat, ultrasonic vibration, and a few others.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlineshroomie_glen
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14051207 - 03/01/11 09:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

RR you perpetually blow my mind.
And I mean this in the gayest of ways:
I love you dude.


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No. No, man. Shit, no man.  I believe you'd get your ass kicked sayin' somethin' like that man.

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InvisiblePinback
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14052266 - 03/02/11 12:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well, mating compatible monokaryons is not really a good way to test if the method is valid. If the spores are non-viable, why would a proteolytic toxin bring them back to life? I know the standard answer is "because they weaken the cell wall", but neither this, nor why the mycelium would combine with the nuclei (why assume the genetic material would be intact if the toxin can break down a cell wall?) instead of consuming them has been shown.

No evidence that shows that the method works; sketchy theory as to why it would work; earlier dubious publications. These kinds of things make my warning bells go off...

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Invisiblelipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: Pinback]
    #14060539 - 03/03/11 02:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe because the enzyme breaking down the cell wall doesn't work on the nucleus. In some commercial applications they use Novozyme -234 Which is basically glucanase and chitinase. Why would these effect the nucleus? I am also curious as to how the nuclei made it into the vicinity of the spores in RR method. I am not saying it didn't work but there has to be some kind of attractant that made them come together.  Usually they us PEG from what I have read. They use it to lower th electronegativity of the protoplasts because they usually carry a negative charge and repel each other. Maybe the Snake venom does this as well

RR - When you made the agar up for this was it soft or firm? Does this matter?

Lipa

Edited by lipa (03/03/11 02:45 PM)

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: Pinback]
    #14060862 - 03/03/11 03:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pinback said:
No evidence that shows that the method works; sketchy theory as to why it would work; earlier dubious publications. These kinds of things make my warning bells go off...




No problem.  It's much easier to stick to tried and true methods already proved.  I've offered pictures of the original plates, and the cross was a red-spored cubensis, but not nearly as red spored as the original Redboy spores. This is in line with expectations, since the monokaryotic mycelium was isolated from a normal-colored spore print.  This is anecdotal evidence, but it's the evidence there is.  Furthermore, once the process was complete, the experiment was repeated with monokaryotic mycelium from the cross, which resulted in spores much closer to the original Redboy.

The only evidence I have to offer is that I made dozens of attempts to germinate the old Redboy spores with no success.  After having already tried everything I knew to do, I bought the snake venom, and used it in agar.  The result was as I said above.  Perhaps the monokaryotic mycelium digested the spores and somehow got the genetic material that way.  I don't know.  Fungi and how they work their processes are still a mystery to us, certainly to me at least.  I'm still learning, and experimenting in an effort to learn more.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisiblecyanara
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14070229 - 03/05/11 10:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

looks like we need to take a trip to Idaho boys.. go get our own Venom.. from McCall to Grand Gene sawtooth area it is chalk full of those things.

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Invisiblefngbronco
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: cyanara]
    #14087010 - 03/08/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You guys want rattlers I'll just swing by the old pen here in Boise. I'd totally be down to try and milk one of those suckers! Is the venom processed in any way prior to use?


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I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need.

Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not.    -fngbronco

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Invisiblefungitobewith
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: fngbronco]
    #14139281 - 03/17/11 08:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Look at some of these prices :eek: some are not to bad but damn.
http://www.venomsa.com/prices_list/index.htm

I think I would prefer to leave the snake milking up the the professionals, this site sells all types of venom, with the cheapest being, Monocle Cobra @ $100.00 a gram

Do you really need to go out and milk a wild snake? The time effort and money spent seems to me to be a waste? Planning a trip like that...costly :thumbdown: in my opinion.

RR how long have you had that same container of venom?


--------------------

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: fungitobewith]
    #14140088 - 03/17/11 10:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It was all used up long ago.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Invisiblemycoelf
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14140124 - 03/17/11 10:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:bow2:


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Mycoelf

Sterility is a process that can be likened unto infinity, which is a long walk, the closer to the end you start before beginning, the more achievable  the goal of infinity becomes.  Remember, cleanliness in next to goddessness

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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: mycoelf]
    #15456286 - 12/02/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yeahso, to anybody who gave a rat's behind about this thread, I just wanted to report, NOTHING culminated out of this.  My buddy got me all hyped to go hunt rattle snakes and obtain their venom for a profit so, I made this thread, obtained the information needed to be proceedin' and, haven't heard back from him since. 

If I was more bad-ass, I'd go hunting the snakes by myself but, I think it wise to use the buddy system when trying to capture live rattle snakes.  When I get into a more comfortable lifestyle, I'll go at this again.  Most likely in my hometown of San Diego where there's no shortage of rattle-snakes or people syco enough to hunt some rattleres (my brother comes to mind).


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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: hamloaf]
    #15457164 - 12/02/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I know my way around reptiles bro. 

When I was a kid I bet my brother $5 that I would become a herpatologist.

He got no money, as he did not become a marine either.

We do have a Costa Rican Rosy Boa though....little fucker bites...a RB that bites!

;0)

JD


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Offlinemarkalbob
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: Javadog]
    #15471665 - 12/05/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

would lyticase work as well? 

We used to use that to "crack" yeast and bust up the cell wall.....it would be a shit-ton cheaper than rattlesnake venom


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Trade list Updated

Haves:  Shiitake West Wind and Snow Cap, Blue and pearl oyster, store-cloned brown beech mushroom, Field and Forest Maitake, Nameko, 2 wild-cloned shaggymane cultures, H. erniaceus and americanum, and SRA.

Wants:  Blewitt, stone-producer print
PM if you'd like to swap

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: markalbob]
    #15473423 - 12/06/11 07:32 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Experiment and find out.  That's the only way we learn.  I'm sure there's plenty of agents which will work, it's just a matter of trial and error to find the right ones.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinemarkalbob
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15473918 - 12/06/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not hybridizing, or at that stage yet....if you are, it may be worth looking at.  lyticase was for breaking yeast cell walls, which I'm guessing are fairly similar to spore walls, so it seems a good candidate.  I'd also guess it is maybe 1/5 the cost of venom, or less even.


--------------------
Trade list Updated

Haves:  Shiitake West Wind and Snow Cap, Blue and pearl oyster, store-cloned brown beech mushroom, Field and Forest Maitake, Nameko, 2 wild-cloned shaggymane cultures, H. erniaceus and americanum, and SRA.

Wants:  Blewitt, stone-producer print
PM if you'd like to swap

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Offlineglideher
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Re: Rattle Snake Venom. [Re: markalbob]
    #27386287 - 07/13/21 05:53 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

is rattle snake venom same as cobra venom strain?


--------------------
dlg gliders

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