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OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Blind folks?
    #1391324 - 03/19/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

okay i know this is slightly odd, it may not even belong in this forum, if not my appologies and mods feel free to move it.  :blush:

Now... I was watching a show on TLC the other day, and a woman who had been blind since birth came on camera and said she had been asked by people throughout her life if she sees black, see responded with "No, i don't see light,  I don't see black, and I don't see white...nothing." 

Well, this got the synapses firing.  I had always thought blind people just saw black, or just like a blank white screen...I guess Not!!  So I guess the question at hand is what in the HELL  do  blind people see?  I mean it's gotta be  something  right?  she still has eyes, and light still enters and affects them the same as other people, its just that the signal isn't hitting the brain.  I get that (I think...probibly not!) but what I don't get is, what is there instead of images? she still hears, and smells, and tastes, etc. so what does she see? If there is nothing, what is nothing?  white, black, green, clear, what? does she maybe really see black, but she doesn't know what black is, or could she really just see nothing?  This has been driving me crazy for the past few days, and if i don't get SOME kind of closure on this subject Im gonna haveta commit Hara Kari!! any volunteers to be the kaishaku? :crazy: 


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================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


Edited by FatNug (03/19/03 12:31 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1391359 - 03/19/03 12:38 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

VERY intriguing topic, man :smile:

It would certainly be better to get this information from somebody who hasn't been blind since birth, because they can compare what they used to experience with what they experience in blindness....

Although I'm no specialist, my wild guess would be that blind people "see" black, but if they were born blind, they don't recognize it as black, because they don't even know what blackness "looks" like (nothing). Imagine trying to explain vision to a blind person.. Thanks for reminding me how amazing it is to simply be able to SEE :smile:


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (03/19/03 12:40 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1391406 - 03/19/03 12:55 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

If a person has been blind from birth, the neural pathways involved in vision will not have developed or will have been co-opted for some other use by the brain. I remember an experiment in which kittens were raised from birth in a controlled environment where there was only things which were vertical, there was nothing horizontal (it may have been vice versa, but that's not the point). After they had reached maturity, they were put in a regular environment. In the new environment they were (apparently) unable to perceive anything horizontal.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1391418 - 03/19/03 12:58 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

yea it's amazing how much we appreciate such mundane things when we take a second to imagine what life would be like without them.... :laugh:

Quote:


It would certainly be better to get this information from somebody who hasn't been blind since birth, because they can compare what they used to experience with what they experience in blindness....





Yea I thought about this, but it would be hard , as most people who are blinded later in life are blind from physical injury of some sort to the eye, thus damaging the eye itself, which  would lead one to see black.  It would be as if you closed your eye; the signal still traverses the optic nerve to the vision portion of your brain where it registers a lack of light, or black, but someone who is born blind most likely would have NO activity whatsoever in the vision area of the brain.  I would think that this would be black but it might not be, as black is the absence of light or color, if there were no activity at all I don't know if black would even register as that would still require some sort of impulse...idunno, maybe someone has a blind friend that would not mind answering the ? :confused: 


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================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


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Anonymous

Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1391427 - 03/19/03 01:01 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

they see the same thing with their eyes that you and i see with our elbows.


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OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: Evolving]
    #1391447 - 03/19/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

If a person has been blind from birth, the neural pathways involved in vision will not have developed or will have been co-opted for some other use by the brain.




Yea i get that part of it Evolving, but what I'm wondering is what exists in the perception if the is no visual brain activity?  is everything just invisable, or is it all black, or all white, or what.  there's gotta be some kind of color :crazy: involved with blindness...GOD I really wish I was telepathic so you guys could understand what in the hell im trying to say, I really don't know how to put it. 

Maybe a bowl of some kush will help me get my words right. Ill be back. :cool: 


--------------------
================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


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OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: ]
    #1391452 - 03/19/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

they see the same thing with their eyes that you and i see with our elbows. 




lol...good call!  That's why I love this froum!!! :grin:


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================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


Edited by FatNug (03/19/03 01:09 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1391461 - 03/19/03 01:10 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I understand your question, and I would say they see "nothing," which probably "looks" pretty black :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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InvisibleNariusFractal
Sat Chit Ananda
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 804
Loc: USA
Re: Blind folks? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1391537 - 03/19/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Mushmaster you made me feel zen when you said that
it finally clicked =)


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 6 days
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1391543 - 03/19/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

She sees from her eyes exactly what you see from your ass.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Blind folks? [Re: Phluck]
    #1391551 - 03/19/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Aw geez. Someone already said that, basically.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1391606 - 03/19/03 01:58 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe a bowl of some kush will help me get my words right.



I can 'see' where that might give you a different 'view' from which to express yourself. :wink:.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineWaldarbeiter
can you eat it?

Registered: 03/07/02
Posts: 189
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Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1393929 - 03/20/03 04:54 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

>"No, i don't see light, I don't see black, and I don't see white...nothing"

She's probably lying. How would she know what black or white or light is?


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OfflineFatNug
Si-Hing

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 150
Loc: Everywhere at 1nce
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: Evolving]
    #1394545 - 03/20/03 08:14 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I can 'see' where that might give you a different 'view' from which to express yourself. :wink:.



yuck yuck yuck!! :grin: everybody loves a good pun now and then!

Phluck, you almost had it!... but yea I think you and mushmaster got it right on the head, I slept on it last night, and i think you guys are right. I couldn't have put it better myself (obviously).  I don't think that black or white as we see it would even exist or register in her brain, and that it would be like me trying to see from my elbow...there's simply just nothing, not even black!  WOW!!! now I can breath! 


--------------------
================================================So what's your peace of mind huh? A swiss watch? leasin' a Lex on credit? all the pussy and liquor a nigga can get..put together this puzzle, but my pieces won't fit.. {Ras kass}


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Offlinesoylent_green
The greatEnitsuj
Female

Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 765
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
Re: Blind folks? [Re: FatNug]
    #1395735 - 03/20/03 04:49 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

i've wondered about this a lot too...my guess would be she sees black, but to her, it's 'nothing'


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What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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