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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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 USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy 
#1390736 - 03/19/03 07:22 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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So the USA is going to invade Iraq for:
1. having weapons of mass destruction even though many were supplied by the USA.
2. for harming it's own people, while the USA incarcerates record numbers of it's own people for using an herb while destroying their family and confiscating possessions.
3. failure to destroy weapons of mass destruction while not having any measurable goal of compliance.
4. for violating a UN resolution. The USA invasion of Iraq without UN approval is a MUCH larger violation of UN by-laws than Iraq's alleged violation. No plan to attack Israel for many UN resolution violations.
5. for training and harboring terrorist cells. No plan to attack Saudi Arabia even though most 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.
6. for having an oppressive dictatorial regime. No plan to attack other dictatorial regimes such as Yemen, Libya, Syria, UAE, etc.
7. because of 9/11. No link of Osama to Saddam.
8. because Iraq is a possible threat to the USA sometime in the future. Umm, so is ANY nation.
9. to get more Middle East nations to be "democratic" though we are really pissed at Turkey for taking a democratic vote not to accept our bribe.
Draining $300,000,000,000 from the USA economy to replace one aging Iraqi with another and risking the lives of our young boys is a veritable bargain. Hell, we don't need money for schools, social security or any programs to boost our sagging economy.
How will this war be paid for? By printing extra money (inflation) devaluing everything you own. Gas is NOT the only thing that will go up. Check out the price of milk and bread a year from now.
Dismantling our freedoms (the US Constitution: see Patriot I and Patriot Act II, which will NEVER be repealed as promised!) in the name of freedom, that is a good one.
All makes sense to me.
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The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (03/19/03 11:10 AM)
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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 Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1390917 - 03/19/03 08:16 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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1. I'm not sure if we actually supplied him whit these weapons before the first gulf war or not, but the point is that he still has them despite his agreement to get rid of them.
2. Just or not the people in the USA who use drugs (i'm one of them btw) are knowingly breaking a law. That is different from slaughtering kurds for no reason.
3. Yes.
4. The problem is that when they made that agreement with the UN the USA was a party to it. It was just like us making an agreement with them using the UN name. Now that the UN has shown itself to have no backbone we have to go in and clean up the mess.
5. No response
6. Yet.
7. No rock solid link that we know of.
8. They are afraid that Saddam may give chemical/biological/radiological weapons to terrorists to use against the USA.
9. I haven't heard that reason before.
"Draining $300,000,000,000 form the USA economy to replace one aging Iraqi with another and risking the lives of our young boys is a veritable bargain. Hell, we don't need money for shcools, social security or any programs to boost our sagging economy."
Don't forget that war creates jobs. Not just in the military, but in the industrial markets as well. Also the schools and social security don't need more money. They need reform.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1390923 - 03/19/03 08:17 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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We will not just print more money to pay for this. That doesn't work.
BTW I agree with you about the patriot act.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: z@z.com]
#1390954 - 03/19/03 08:30 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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War creates jobs. Oh, is that why I probably won't be able to get a job when I graduate in May? Lana posted a link yesterday to an article in USA Today about how many companies are going to pull advertising when the war begins. As a advertising/design major, that worries me a little. Although, I suppose I could always create war propaganda for a living...
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 pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: adrug]
#1390990 - 03/19/03 08:40 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dont jump at the idea of the USA "liberating" another country.
Americans don't practice what they preach.
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man = monkey + mushroom
Edited by pattern (03/19/03 08:42 AM)
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Remy
Bitches Brew
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: z@z.com]
#1391088 - 03/19/03 09:12 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
2. Just or not the people in the USA who use drugs (i'm one of them btw) are knowingly breaking a law. That is different from slaughtering kurds for no reason.
The kurds, I will point out where not slaughtered for no reason, they where rebelling, and i would not be surprised if an american rebellion occured, rebels might face similar fates (deathy) depending on how dedicated they are to their cause. Also, there is sufficient evidence that supports the idea that iran slaughtered the Kurds while Iraq may have only used mustard gas, which can cause death, but usually doesn't.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: z@z.com]
#1391101 - 03/19/03 09:15 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Don't forget that war creates jobs. Not just in the military, but in the industrial markets as well
Please explain where the money will come from to pay for these jobs that the war creates. Please explain how taking this money from from other enterprises will not adversely affect jobs in other areas of the economy.
You are operating under a common economic misconception known as 'The Broken Window Fallacy.' You are ignoring the negative effects while only focusing on the what you consider to be positive effects. Money used for weapons and war is money that is not available for education, medicine, food, housing and various other enterprises. War is about destruction of property and destroying value, whereas most other areas of economic activity involve some sort of creation of goods or services.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Sombie
Moonrock eater
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1391110 - 03/19/03 09:18 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Uh, we arn't breaking any U.N. laws by going into Iraq.
By the U.N. not forcing Iraq to comply it has shown itself to be just as weak as the League of nations was pior to WW2
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"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
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Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: z@z.com]
#1391134 - 03/19/03 09:27 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
We will not just print more money to pay for this. That doesn't work.
Have you ever heard of the Federal Reserve or The Treasury Department?
Do you know the term 'money supply?'
More money may be printed or it can be created electronically, the effect is the same. It increases the money supply, thereby decreasing the value of money already held. The main beneficiaries of such moves are governments and central banks - whoever first has possession of the newly created money. This is called monetary inflation, eventually this leads to a rise in prices - what most people think of as 'inflation.' What do you mean it doesn't work? It works, to the detriment of anyone holding money at the time new money is created. Monetary inflation is an insidious tax that hits everyone, the poor person sees his money depreciate in value the same percentage as the wealthy.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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GazzBut
Refraction
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: z@z.com]
#1391303 - 03/19/03 10:18 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
1. I'm not sure if we actually supplied him whit these weapons before the first gulf war or not, but the point is that he still has them despite his agreement to get rid of them.
Well 5 mins with google should answer that question for you. Its worth noting that if you are referring to chemical and biological weapons that Iraq had prior to the first Gulf war, these weapons would now for the most part be useless. VX nerve gas for instance has a limited lifetime as does Sarin.
Quote:
4. The problem is that when they made that agreement with the UN the USA was a party to it. It was just like us making an agreement with them using the UN name. Now that the UN has shown itself to have no backbone we have to go in and clean up the mess.
This is the whole point of the UN. If the required level of agreement is not there then action should not be taken. Whether a nation agrees with a UN decision is irrelevant, as a member they should accept it and strive to change the situation through diplomacy. Of course this require patience.
Quote:
Yet
Bush is a liar if he doesnt attack these countries. I doubt he will.
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Always Smi2le
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1391420 - 03/19/03 10:59 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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The USA is somehow "getting away with" these actions. Who's going to stop my government? Please? Anybody?
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: z@z.com]
#1391483 - 03/19/03 11:16 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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We will not just print more money to pay for this. That doesn't work.
Of course it doesn't work, but it postpones the time when the final bill will come due.
Since we came off the gold standard in 1964 house prices (REAL estate - not FAKE paper dollars) have multiplied astronomically. My dad paid $7000 for his house in 1967 and it is now worth over $250,000 even though the property and house has deteriorated. This is not true "appreciation", but inflation due to an unanchored dollar.
Mark my words, food prices will be up 25-35% next year due to the printing of excessive paper.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Sombie]
#1391511 - 03/19/03 11:25 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Uh, we arn't breaking any U.N. laws by going into Iraq.
Are you serious? So the UN Charter says that any nation can defy the UN and attack another nation unprovoked? Guess I missed that part.
So it was OK for Iraq to invade Kuwait? (Actually Iraq WAS provoked when the Kuwaitis slant-drilled Iraqi oil fields, but that fact was never mentioned in the US press.)
Remember folks: Might makes right!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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upupup
guardian
Registered: 08/25/01
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Loc: George "I love Hitler" Bu...
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1392367 - 03/19/03 03:58 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thank God/Goddess the Clavary is here....Please don't go away.....we need a voice of reason aroung here......
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Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.
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uno
enthusiast
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1396765 - 03/21/03 01:12 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uh, we arn't breaking any U.N. laws by going into Iraq.
Are you serious? So the UN Charter says that any nation can defy the UN and attack another nation unprovoked? Guess I missed that part.
So it was OK for Iraq to invade Kuwait? (Actually Iraq WAS provoked when the Kuwaitis slant-drilled Iraqi oil fields, but that fact was never mentioned in the US press.)
Remember folks: Might makes right!
Remember when Mr. Burns did that to Springfield Elementary?
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- uno
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,248
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: uno]
#1396772 - 03/21/03 01:14 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Those bastards in the school deserved it!!!
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Posts: 3,937
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#1399007 - 03/21/03 04:53 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
So the UN Charter says that any nation can defy the UN and attack another nation unprovoked? Guess I missed that part.
How did we defy the UN? I don't recall any UN resolution that prohibits the US from enforcing 1441. I don't even understand why people view this as a seperate war from desert storm. This is just a restart of the first war because Saddam negated the cease fire by not following the conditions of it.
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Be all and you'll be to end all
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Evolving]
#1399203 - 03/21/03 06:11 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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Money used for weapons and war is money that is not available for education, medicine, food, housing and various other enterprises.
Now you're learning.
The fact is Bush has no interest whatsoever on spending money on education, food or housing. Starting illegal wars on Iraq displays this quite clearly.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Xlea321]
#1400635 - 03/22/03 12:17 PM (22 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Money used for weapons and war is money that is not available for education, medicine, food, housing and various other enterprises.
Now you're learning.
Huh? I recall you propagating the broken window fallacy before as well Alex. Maybe you're learning. It's okay to admit that you've changed your mind.
Quote:
The fact is Bush has no interest whatsoever on spending money on education, food or housing.
The fact is Bush has increased spending in many areas. He has increased spending more than any president since Lyndon Johnson, this is not counting the cost for the military adventure in Iraq. By looking at the books, one could easily say that George Bush is more of a socialist than Bill Clinton was.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Swami]
#4881110 - 11/01/05 07:30 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Swami Said:
"So the USA is going to invade Iraq for:
1. having weapons of mass destruction even though many were supplied by the USA.
2. for harming it's own people, while the USA incarcerates record numbers of it's own people for using an herb while destroying their family and confiscating possessions.
3. failure to destroy weapons of mass destruction while not having any measurable goal of compliance.
4. for violating a UN resolution. The USA invasion of Iraq without UN approval is a MUCH larger violation of UN by-laws than Iraq's alleged violation. No plan to attack Israel for many UN resolution violations.
5. for training and harboring terrorist cells. No plan to attack Saudi Arabia even though most 9/11 terrorists were Saudis.
6. for having an oppressive dictatorial regime. No plan to attack other dictatorial regimes such as Yemen, Libya, Syria, UAE, etc.
7. because of 9/11. No link of Osama to Saddam.
8. because Iraq is a possible threat to the USA sometime in the future. Umm, so is ANY nation.
9. to get more Middle East nations to be "democratic" though we are really pissed at Turkey for taking a democratic vote not to accept our bribe.
Draining $300,000,000,000 from the USA economy to replace one aging Iraqi with another and risking the lives of our young boys is a veritable bargain. Hell, we don't need money for schools, social security or any programs to boost our sagging economy.
How will this war be paid for? By printing extra money (inflation) devaluing everything you own. Gas is NOT the only thing that will go up. Check out the price of milk and bread a year from now.
Dismantling our freedoms (the US Constitution: see Patriot I and Patriot Act II, which will NEVER be repealed as promised!) in the name of freedom, that is a good one.
All makes sense to me."
Quote:
Swami said:
We will not just print more money to pay for this. That doesn't work.
Of course it doesn't work, but it postpones the time when the final bill will come due.
Since we came off the gold standard in 1964 house prices (REAL estate - not FAKE paper dollars) have multiplied astronomically. My dad paid $7000 for his house in 1967 and it is now worth over $250,000 even though the property and house has deteriorated. This is not true "appreciation", but inflation due to an unanchored dollar.
Mark my words, food prices will be up 25-35% next year due to the printing of excessive paper.
did food prices go up 25-35% due to the printing of ecessive paper???
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (11/01/05 07:42 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: lonestar2004]
#4881221 - 11/01/05 07:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mark his words. Mark them well.
Phred
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Phred]
#4881262 - 11/01/05 07:53 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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It doesn't count as wrong b/c no one disagreed with him the time. 
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Redstorm]
#4881334 - 11/01/05 08:02 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Must I remind people that there has never been a war declared legal by the UN. It's not like the US is radically breaking precedent, what is radical is the idea that there is one. Every war has been illegal.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Redstorm]
#4881349 - 11/01/05 08:04 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Also, I was curious as to what he's talking about Turkey not taking our bribe.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Divided_Sky]
#4881380 - 11/01/05 08:07 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
Must I remind people that there has never been a war declared legal by the UN. It's not like the US is radically breaking precedent, what is radical is the idea that there is one. Every war has been illegal.
Gulf War I had UN Security Council approval I believe.
Edited by RandalFlagg (11/01/05 08:14 PM)
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings
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Loc: The Shining Void
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: RandalFlagg]
#4881390 - 11/01/05 08:09 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Oops. I think that was the only one.
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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Divided_Sky]
#4881435 - 11/01/05 08:15 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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There have been four --
Korea
Gulf War One
Somalia
Afghanistan
Phred
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: lonestar2004]
#4881587 - 11/01/05 08:44 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
did food prices go up 25-35% due to the printing of ecessive paper???
Food and fuel prices have risen quite a bit where I live. These two items are not included in the core CPI figures unless they are trending downwards. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, consumer prices increased at a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 9.4 percent in the third quarter of 2005. It seems that a lot of 'easy' money has found it's way into real estate as we are currently experiencing a bubble in that market, gold and other commodities are also trending sharply upwards. Keep an eye out for deflation of the real estate bubble, the money created through debt expansion will migrate to other areas of the economy and we may then see a sharper rise in prices in other areas.
Rights to future U.S. tax revenues are being bought up by other countries, such as China. What would happen if the U.S. economy slowed significantly, then the Chinese wouldn't have as many buyers for their goods and hence would have less money to buy U.S. debt at the same time the U.S. government's relief payments would increase? We need fiscal responsibility, we need it now.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: Prosgeopax]
#4881598 - 11/01/05 08:46 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prosgeopax said:
We need fiscal responsibility, we need it now.
Ain't gonna happen. Name me one nation throughout history that had irresponsible fiscal policies at one time and that managed to turn things around and balance the books.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy [Re: RandalFlagg]
#4881626 - 11/01/05 08:51 PM (19 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think New Zealand performed a major turn around a few years ago. If I recall, it was a labor government that did it, not because they wanted to, but because they had to. Sooner or later, the U.S. will have the issue forced upon it. I do not have much hope that the government will handle the situation wisely.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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