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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: andrewss]
    #13916403 - 02/06/11 05:17 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

It will probably go something like this:



--------------------


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13916436 - 02/06/11 05:23 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

NortonStPhallus said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

curious mouse said:
there are most certainly collective needs...the need for security, stability, and a functioning economy.




But maybe I don't care about that crap. And, if I don't care, what's my motivation to care about the common good?





Not being a sociopath, thats one reason to care about other people. If you want to remain selfish then you could realize that your prosperity is the product of billions of people both currently and throughout history working to develop the technology and culture which enables people like you to get on the internet and espouse the virtues of selfishness. You could live alone without a single thing given to you by society, naked in the wild with no knowledge, and you wouldn't last a week.



1.  Society doesn't give provide anything.  People do
2.  The vast majority of people have never contributed anything to the betterment of the human condition.  Not a single fucking thing.
3.  Every technological advancement has come as a result of special individuals, not the retarded grunts who grow their food or mow their lawns
4.  The single biggest motivator for any one of these people to contribute to the betterment of the human condition is their desire to better their own condition.  Why shouldn't they be rewarded.

If that's selfish what do you call the desire for people who contribute fuck all to be taken care of by people who do all?

The Kollektif must be subordinate to the individual.  The alternative is slavery and authoritarianism.




If it wasn't for people who grow food, YOU wouldn't eat. 

Sure the inventors and scientists should be rewarded, but your definition of a reward is to receive millions of dollars a year more than the person who pick your tomatoes, and I don't think they are worth that many times more.

Part of bettering the human condition is finding ways for us all to get along better.  If more people could recognize that the vegetable pickers, the janitors, the ditch diggers, the child care workers, the CNAS, etc. all are worthy people who deserve at least a simple living, the world would be a better place.  If all the low wage earners were to disappear, YOU would not have your cushy little world filled with luxury and comfort, you know that don't you?  Do you think Bill Gates himself is going to personally assemble your next high speed computer?  Do you think a millionaire is going to change your sheets and bathe you if you end up in a nursing home?


Edited by HippieChick8 (02/06/11 05:25 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13916465 - 02/06/11 05:30 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If all the low wage earners were to disappear, YOU would not have your cushy little world filled with luxury and comfort, you know that don't you?




And if all the people who pay them for their work would dissapear, these people wouldn't work anymore. What's your point?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13916481 - 02/06/11 05:35 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

If all the low wage earners were to disappear, YOU would not have your cushy little world filled with luxury and comfort, you know that don't you?




And if all the people who pay them for their work would dissapear, these people wouldn't work anymore. What's your point?




People worked, lived and played long before "bosses" were invented.  What's YOUR point?


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13916485 - 02/06/11 05:36 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Her point is that hippies are groovy and the rest of us are "the man",


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13916502 - 02/06/11 05:40 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

It never ends with her.  She simply cannot grasp the fact that most people are easily replaceable, untalented, unintelligent and unwilling to put in the hard work necessary to make themselves special in some way.  Almost anybody can dig a ditch.  Almost nobody can play professional baseball.  Therein lies the problem.  Most people cannot accept the fact that they are completely ordinary, at best, and aren't really being helped much by being told that everybody is special.  Schools and parents who give awards for participating instead of excelling.  Sad really.  At least there remains a certain level of meritocracy in business.  Not perfect but better than in anything else except professional sports.


--------------------


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13916597 - 02/06/11 06:03 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

If all the low wage earners were to disappear, YOU would not have your cushy little world filled with luxury and comfort, you know that don't you?




And if all the people who pay them for their work would dissapear, these people wouldn't work anymore. What's your point?




People worked, lived and played long before "bosses" were invented.  What's YOUR point?




My point is that nobody is irreplaceable.
And btw, "bosses" existed ever since workers existed. There has always been demand and offer, under one form or another. There have always been people with more power than others. Paying for a job and getting paid for providing a service IS getting along.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13916614 - 02/06/11 06:05 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It never ends with her.  She simply cannot grasp the fact that most people are easily replaceable, untalented, unintelligent and unwilling to put in the hard work necessary to make themselves special in some way.  Almost anybody can dig a ditch.  Almost nobody can play professional baseball.  Therein lies the problem.  Most people cannot accept the fact that they are completely ordinary, at best, and aren't really being helped much by being told that everybody is special.  Schools and parents who give awards for participating instead of excelling.  Sad really.  At least there remains a certain level of meritocracy in business.  Not perfect but better than in anything else except professional sports.




I received plenty of awards when I was in medical research, at both a fortune 500 pharmaceutical company and for the Food and Drug Administration. 

What you can't grasp is that the world needs "ordinary" people to do most of the work that needs to be done.  It takes all kinds, and we can't all be scientists and corporate executives.

I agree that the public school system has been "dumbed down" and maybe that is what you should be angry about.  But to be angry that not everyone can be or even wants to be an inventor or a CEO doesn't make sense.  Look what the media is pushing.  It is not "cool" to be smart, and it has not been for a long time now.

It is also ironic that someone who claims to be a multi millionaire is so unsatisfied.  That confirms for me that money does not bring satisfaction.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 10 months, 19 days
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13916632 - 02/06/11 06:09 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I received plenty of awards when I was in medical research, at both a fortune 500 pharmaceutical company and for the Food and Drug Administration.




Good, it means that you participated.

Quote:

It is also ironic that someone who claims to be a multi millionaire is so unsatisfied.  That confirms for me that money does not bring satisfaction.




Sure, if someone is able to point out the flaws in something, it means they're unhappy.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13916645 - 02/06/11 06:12 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

It is also ironic that someone who claims to be a multi millionaire is so unsatisfied.  That confirms for me that money does not bring satisfaction.

You continue to amaze me.  Just because some people who are rich are not happy does not mean that money does not bring satisfaction.  I'm very satisfied with my money.  I mean compared to the alternative.  Were I to get another 20 million I would be even more satisfied and I'm sure it would increase my enjoyment of life.  All wealth is on a continuum.  You would be considered rich by most standards in the world. Any your constant whining and complaining about those who have more shows to me your vise like attachment to money. And it's not making you very happy.  I suggest leaving the farm and living  naked in the wild.  (Send photos) :whacker:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13916665 - 02/06/11 06:16 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:


It is also ironic that someone who claims to be a multi millionaire is so unsatisfied.  That confirms for me that money does not bring satisfaction.




Where did I claim to be a multimillionaire?  Damn gummint takes most of it away.

I am quite satisfied.  I post here to educate and inform, to warn all the little children the dangers of the Kollektif and the value of self sufficiency.  Self sufficiency does not mean that you grow your own fucking food.  It means you earn what you get, that it isn't given to you by some paternalistic suffocating life destroying entity.

There can be no self respect for the dependent.  And no, paying somebody to grow food is not dependency.  zappa fuck


--------------------


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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
Female User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13916839 - 02/06/11 07:05 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

If it wasn't for people who grow food, YOU wouldn't eat. 

Sure the inventors and scientists should be rewarded, but your definition of a reward is to receive millions of dollars a year more than the person who pick your tomatoes, and I don't think they are worth that many times more.

Part of bettering the human condition is finding ways for us all to get along better.  If more people could recognize that the vegetable pickers, the janitors, the ditch diggers, the child care workers, the CNAS, etc. all are worthy people who deserve at least a simple living, the world would be a better place.  If all the low wage earners were to disappear, YOU would not have your cushy little world filled with luxury and comfort, you know that don't you?  Do you think Bill Gates himself is going to personally assemble your next high speed computer?  Do you think a millionaire is going to change your sheets and bathe you if you end up in a nursing home?





You speak of reward as if it is some compensation based on a system of morality. This is a farce. Most people with the skills to make money aren't going to give a shit about the "general human condition" or some other lovey dovey bulllshit.

It seems that you have no understanding of economics. The driving force behind prices is scarcity, and a capitalist/price-based system has been shown to be the most efficient method of distributing resources by far. To give out wages "fairly" in a way which you would like requires a centralized economy. What this does is remove the "natural selection" that exists in the free market bussiness world. With no natural selection you get oversized and retarded monstrosities who have no idea how to take care of themselves for they are never threatened.

I would think someone who claims to like nature so much would see how domination of the weak is necessary to a healthy system.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,722
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #13916945 - 02/06/11 07:29 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It will probably go something like this:






:datass:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: andrewss]
    #13917062 - 02/06/11 07:51 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

:Awemazing:



:chicken:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlineandrewss
precariously aggrandized


Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,722
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 years, 30 days
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: Poid] * 1
    #13917072 - 02/06/11 07:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

:wexican:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: Icelander]
    #13917308 - 02/06/11 08:45 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It is also ironic that someone who claims to be a multi millionaire is so unsatisfied.  That confirms for me that money does not bring satisfaction.

You continue to amaze me.  Just because some people who are rich are not happy does not mean that money does not bring satisfaction.  I'm very satisfied with my money.  I mean compared to the alternative.  Were I to get another 20 million I would be even more satisfied and I'm sure it would increase my enjoyment of life.  All wealth is on a continuum.  You would be considered rich by most standards in the world. Any your constant whining and complaining about those who have more shows to me your vise like attachment to money. And it's not making you very happy.  I suggest leaving the farm and living  naked in the wild.  (Send photos) :whacker:




Quote:

People say money doesn't buy happiness. Except, according to a new study from Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School, it sort of does — up to about $75,000 a year. The lower a person's annual income falls below that benchmark, the unhappier he or she feels. But no matter how much more than $75,000 people make, they don't report any greater degree of happiness.



http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2016291,00.html


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #13917341 - 02/06/11 08:53 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

I'm way below that benchmark but my sister and brother in law do  75 each easily.  They seem mostly miserable and I'm a happy go lucky fool. 

Give me the next million however and I'm sure I'll use it in ways that make me happier.  I want a small ranch with a very productive trout stream on it.  I'll fish every day and be happier for it.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: curious mouse]
    #13917475 - 02/06/11 09:21 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

curious mouse said:
Emma Goldman wrote in criticism of individualism:

‘Rugged individualism’ has meant all the ‘individualism’ for the masters, while the people are regimented into a slave caste to serve a handful of self-seeking ‘supermen.’…Their ‘rugged individualism’ is simply one of the many pretenses the ruling class makes to mask unbridled business and political extortion.”




funny thing is that the "masters" always succeed in proving this claim to be false.. but in doing so they always prove it to be true...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/06/11 09:42 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13917561 - 02/06/11 09:38 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

as with any addiction, if money becomes an addiction it can ruin a person. I'm sure there's lots of that out there.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: The individualistic society erodes community and general well-being. [Re: Icelander]
    #13922420 - 02/07/11 07:45 PM (10 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It is also ironic that someone who claims to be a multi millionaire is so unsatisfied.  That confirms for me that money does not bring satisfaction.

You continue to amaze me.  Just because some people who are rich are not happy does not mean that money does not bring satisfaction.  I'm very satisfied with my money.  I mean compared to the alternative.  Were I to get another 20 million I would be even more satisfied and I'm sure it would increase my enjoyment of life.  All wealth is on a continuum.  You would be considered rich by most standards in the world. Any your constant whining and complaining about those who have more shows to me your vise like attachment to money. And it's not making you very happy.  I suggest leaving the farm and living  naked in the wild.  (Send photos) :whacker:




I should have said money in excess of what I need will not bring me more satisfaction.  I know I am rich in many ways.  Why is it so wrong to want EVERYONE who is willing to work full time to have food, shelter and the basic necessities?

I am worried about a further economic collapse in this country.  Acquiring a few country skills helps me to feel secure more so than money in a bank, which can be taken away or deemed worthless in a severe economic collapse.  Do you realize everything of value can be taken away from you except your knowledge and skills?


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