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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011
    #13882310 - 01/31/11 02:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm 20 minutes in, real good so far. No idea which direction they are taking this one...


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Offlinedzza
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13882520 - 01/31/11 02:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks, and to think I was originally going to spend my evening studying..

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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: dzza] * 2
    #13882677 - 01/31/11 03:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, awesome I was just gonna start a thread about this. Lol.

I just had a realization last night while on LSA. Originally I was opposed to the Venus project(I was attracted to the Zeitgeist). My friend is transitioning to devote his entire life to it now, and preaches often about it, and it was turning me off. It seemed like he wanted to replace one kind of System Control, for another.. As if I had no say in whether i wanted all this automation envisioned with the Venus Project aspect. But after looking into the Symbolism/meanings of "Venus" and during a powerful conversation with him, and another friend, I realized, the Venus project is The Aquarian Age Revolution... (These are just names/labels for what already is..Meaning is key)If we had the venus project, everyone would get to live in their ideal, automated or not.

Now I still dont exactly agree with all of Venus Projects ideals, but I now see that The Zeitgeist movement already Is. We are all doing it, whether we mean to or not.. The Venus Project already Is. We are all doing it whether we mean to or not.

Now I see that there is nothing we need to do or change anything in the world.
We need only to welcome the Weltschmerz, embody the Zeitgeist, and Awaken Venus Within. So to speak :wink:

Be yourself.
...How could you not be?
Or better yet, how are you not being?


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13882687 - 01/31/11 03:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Rather than type out a lengthy critique here, I'll just post the critique I made on YouTube(yes, I have a YouTube channel):



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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13883874 - 01/31/11 07:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13885323 - 01/31/11 11:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think the creators of the film know this is a change that cannot happen overnight. Rather it is a direction to move towards. It's becoming quite apparent to more and more people that the current economic workings of the world are severely flawed and downright detrimental to not only the planet but the human species.

I really liked the ideas they presented. It's an ideal. I think if the idea gets enough attention and energy it can become a reality. As the world economy gets worse people will demand change. Just look at what is happening in Egypt. I think there is going to be a point where it becomes a necessity. I agree with the creators that the workings of a society has a fundamental impact on the psyche of its inhabitants. We need to start thinking big - thinking world centric.

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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13885349 - 01/31/11 11:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

We need free energy... That will solve the worlds problems in my opinion, ive kind of have no hope for any world leaders, and situation. I feel that nothing we do will help its the "curruption at its root" which is the problem and no matter how much we change things externally nothing will change we need to change inwardly.

Except free energy devices would defuse a lot of shit . I mean we need "fuel" to fuel the ego. lol im just rambling.

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Invisiblep4kSouL
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: p4kSouL]
    #13885368 - 01/31/11 11:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

So far after watching the first bit of the new zielgest, i just feel they are bi'est, and still dont see the big picture. Not that i do, but there is so many different perspectives, Zietgest has great revelations, but i feel people will all "ziegest is the god movie"(if that makes any sense) about it, i still need to watch the rest of it but thast my opinion so far.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt] * 1
    #13885380 - 01/31/11 11:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I think the creators of the film know this is a change that cannot happen overnight. Rather it is a direction to move towards. It's becoming quite apparent to more and more people that the current economic workings of the world are severely flawed and downright detrimental to not only the planet but the human species.

I really liked the ideas they presented. It's an ideal. I think if the idea gets enough attention and energy it can become a reality. As the world economy gets worse people will demand change. Just look at what is happening in Egypt. I think there is going to be a point where it becomes a necessity. I agree with the creators that the workings of a society has a fundamental impact on the psyche of its inhabitants. We need to start thinking big - thinking world centric.



I don't question the fact that the current system is not working.  It seems that whenever I critique this or any other alternative proposal, people always talk as if it's the only alternative to the status quo, which is patently false.  Of course we need to change our economy in a direction that is more harmonious with the biosphere.  But what they're proposing is essentially a command economy.  The main difference between what they propose and what the Soviet Union had is the role of computers.  I'm no market fundamentalist, but the way they demonize markets is far too absolutist.  Markets are an efficient means of distributed decision-making, so that people can actively participate in creating the society they want, rather than having people like the Zeitgeist crowd telling them how to do everything.  We can reform our money system and markets in ways that are sustainable and equitable without having to resort to the hegemonic central planning they're talking about.


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13885448 - 01/31/11 11:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well make a two hour video about your ideas already! :cool: The problem is no one is really offering an alternative. What I see in this video is a positive future with sustainability, sharing and education. I also see a future where we would be free to pursue our passions, whatever that may be.

Their system would still use markets in the sense of surveying peoples needs/desires. It's not like they are going to be doing all of this in the dark. With the internet and a computerized system this could truly be the largest market driven economy in history. I really don't see how it relates to what the Soviets did. This isn't suggesting setting up a form of ruling elite.

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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13885475 - 01/31/11 11:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I saw the last 2/3's of the doc on the Truth Channel JustinTV (plays 24 docs) I wasn't all that impressed. Not going to get into detail I think silversoul has done\is doing a good job. In short I think his idelogology is radically short sighted and over-simplified.

Also Johnson seems to think techonology and science are the answer, IMO this couldn't be anything futher from the truth. Advancements in science and technology are not are problem and are not a solution to our problem, atleast not at it's root. We could feed the world 1000 times over.

Our problem is selfishness and it's root is spiritual ignorance of the truth.

Quote:

the increased material well-being of millions of people which science has brought about would have produced contentment and satisfaction, and the tremendous imagination science has projected into the general consciousness would have let loose happiness. Man thinks that there was never so much achievement and promise of greater achievement as now; but the fact is there was never such wide-spread distrust and dissatisfaction and misery. The promises of science have been proved empty, and its vision false.



Meher

_________________

Lol btw a funny little story.. on the truth channel there is a live chat so you can talk about the doc.

For kicks I asked if Fresco (creator of the venus project) did the illustrations for the George Jetson show.. A good 5 people told me to shut up and fuck off. haha

Oh and Silversoul I saw your channel a few months back as I was watching some of ThouArtThous vids. Thought it might be you but then that "nahh who am kidding theres probably 100s of silversouls on the net).. hah

Good vid


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13885490 - 01/31/11 11:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I suggest getting involved. What the word Zeitgeist means is what people are feeling. People discussing in forums on topics like this.. Get involved with the Movement, and get your say in..

The main idea, is to create an Ideal for Humankind on Earth.. If you dont like the ideal they are exampling, Get involved!.. We Are The Zeitgeist and the Venus Project, it's within the consciousness of us all, and it's unfolding as we speak.. We Are The Ones We Have Been Waiting For.

Join your Local Zeitgeist Movement, or Start One. Begin in your own Town.. Begin a Transition.. (Transition Towns) Network..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt] * 1
    #13885567 - 01/31/11 11:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
The problem is no one is really offering an alternative.



They are if you bother to look.  Not all of them make 2-hour documentaries that employ known cult brainwashing techniques, but there are plenty of books out there.  To start, I'd suggest checking out Herman Daly, Henry George, Charles Eisenstein, Silvio Gesell, and E.F. Schumacher.

Quote:

What I see in this video is a positive future with sustainability, sharing and education. I also see a future where we would be free to pursue our passions, whatever that may be.



Unless those passions happen to conflict with this top-down utopian human ant farm.

Quote:

Their system would still use markets in the sense of surveying peoples needs/desires. It's not like they are going to be doing all of this in the dark. With the internet and a computerized system this could truly be the largest market driven economy in history.



Yes, in the sense that we think of what we want and tell the computer.  The problem is we don't all know what we want.  Before computers existed, how many people would've thought of that as something that they want?  The beauty of the market economy is it allows for the kind of spontaneity that simply can't be anticipated beforehand. 

Quote:

I really don't see how it relates to what the Soviets did. This isn't suggesting setting up a form of ruling elite.



What they're describing is essentially a planned economy, just like the Soviets had.  The ruling elite are irrelevant to the downsides associated with planned economies.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: soldatheero]
    #13885793 - 02/01/11 12:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Also Johnson seems to think techonology and science are the answer, IMO this couldn't be anything futher from the truth. Advancements in science and technology are not are problem and are not a solution to our problem, atleast not at it's root. We could feed the world 1000 times over.




Developing technology capable of ending starvation and/or unchecked population growth will occur before we cure selfishness, IMO.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: deCypher]
    #13885801 - 02/01/11 12:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

soldatheero said:
Also Johnson seems to think techonology and science are the answer, IMO this couldn't be anything futher from the truth. Advancements in science and technology are not are problem and are not a solution to our problem, atleast not at it's root. We could feed the world 1000 times over.




Developing technology capable of ending starvation and/or unchecked population growth will occur before we cure selfishness, IMO.



I disagree.  Such outcomes will have to come from economic reforms, not technology.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13885806 - 02/01/11 12:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That would definitely be a contributing factor too; regardless I think external revolutions will happen before internal ones.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: deCypher]
    #13885829 - 02/01/11 12:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I' like to add this quote to my former point.

"Selfishness, multiplied by population, results in wars, exploitation, persecution and poverty. Selflessness, multiplied by population, brings about peace and plenty. All the modern fads that are stalking the world today, in the guise of politics, economics, materialism, communalism, nationalism and socialism, have to be judged on the criteria of selfishness or selflessness" Meher

Quote:

That would definitely be a contributing factor too; regardless I think external revolutions will happen before internal ones




Yeah & I think many people probably believe this as well, that is why shit is going to go up in smoke.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #13885840 - 02/01/11 12:59 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
That would definitely be a contributing factor too; regardless I think external revolutions will happen before internal ones.



Ever heard of the Strauss-Howe generational theory?  According to it, we're in the midst of a fourth turning.  So I have a feeling those external revolutions are in the making as we speak.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13885987 - 02/01/11 02:01 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rather than type out a lengthy critique here, I'll just post the critique I made on YouTube




:thumbup:

I've had the feeling with each viewing of one of these zeitgeist films that I was being brainwashed...

I'm amazed that a person could dedicate as much time and effort as it must have taken to research and assemble this film without reflecting on the ideas enough to see the holes within them.

I'm not sure how one would practically put this system into effect without either bringing skynet online, or convincing a very large percentage of the people on earth to submit themselves to a more benign form of automated decision making.  Given the push towards individuality these days, a lot of us and our children are likely to have to die first.

Does anyone see an alternative to some form of currency?  Short of total zombification or a technological overlord, I just can't imagine it.

But perhaps as cosmonautt suggested the purpose is to inspire and motivate the listless to focus their energies behind the idea that alternative means of organizing ourselves as humans on this planet are possible.

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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13886038 - 02/01/11 02:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not going to get involved with the whole theory presented and methods of changing the current economic system. I choose to focus on the provocativeness of the video.
Simply because "zeitgeist" has already made a name for itself i believe that many of the facts and statistics presented in the documentary will indeed provoke the feelings and thoughts of many people.
This i believe is a good thing irregardless of the inevitable question  : What will we do when the system is brought down.

I think that taking the leap and looking forward so much is what mostly keeps us from making any kind of real progress.
When you have a leaking pipe , you dont let it leak till the plumber comes. If you can reach it , you use a temporary solution to stop the leaking so you don't get a fucking flood in your house.
If your window breaks and its cold outside , you wont wait for tomorrow to get a new window , you're gonna put some kind of block there so you don't freeze your balls off overnight.

What is clearly presented is the lessening of life quality for humans and it is drastic to say the least
and
the wastefulness of the current economic system which plays a major role in the above.

its all crooked..
its broken and it doesn't work if you care to notice that billions of people are BARELY surviving let alone leading happy and fulfilling lives.

I won't be having any children, not intentionally at least.
I wouldn't want for them to grow up and one day have to play russian roulette for  a plastic bag of clean water.

This video promotes if not urges for a change. I personally don't see a very high probability of things getting any worse than they already are.
:peace:


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: jivJaN]
    #13887134 - 02/01/11 11:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
This video promotes if not urges for a change. I personally don't see a very high probability of things getting any worse than they already are.
:peace:




Yea, that's pretty much how I see it too. It's bringing attention to the problems of the current system is a victory itself. We aren't going to transition into a Venus Project future overnight, and it seems like some people would have a problem with such a system anyway. A transitioning stage would probably start with an enormous growth of local gardens/farms everywhere - very decentralized.

soldatheero - I couldn't agree more. I believe any change in the external has to be preceded by or mirrored by an internal change within us. If you look at humanity as one organism we are going through a state of internal reorganization. All of the bad stuff has to come to the surface. This video is like taking a look at our collective shadow so to speak. I couldn't imagine a Venus Projectesque future without some change in human consciousness towards selflessness and viewing oneself as a part of the word opposed to something separate.

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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13887576 - 02/01/11 01:03 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


Unless those passions happen to conflict with this top-down utopian human ant farm.



For example?

Quote:


I disagree.  Such outcomes will have to come from economic reforms, not technology.



The technology already exists..
Ever heard of the Hutchinson Effect?


Quote:

I'm not sure how one would practically put this system into effect without either bringing skynet online, or convincing a very large percentage of the people on earth to submit themselves to a more benign form of automated decision making.  Given the push towards individuality these days, a lot of us and our children are likely to have to die first.



Through Transitioning.. It will not happen overnight by any means unless people can come to an agreement. After being involved with the Zeitgeist movement for a matter of weeks, I've seen a great many people disinclined to agree with it (and the Venus project- including myself)

Quote:

This video promotes if not urges for a change. I personally don't see a very high probability of things getting any worse than they already are.


and if all the disagreement is the case (which it is), then a mass Internal revolution would go hand in hand with an External one... How many people would die from this, is ultimately up to how well we balance the two..

We are entering the Age of Aquarius, this is our revolution, that will stage the rest of our journey through the multiverse.. As Humankind.

Idono how to explain this much better.. But maybe i'm just trying to hand out fish..
The Zeitgeist Movies, are premordern thinking still.. Jacque Fresco of the Venus Project is pretty old, and claims to be a Futurist.. Many of the ideas are his.. These are Grand and Fantastic Ideals, but it Is a very Top Down Model.. That's what an Ideal is.. But if you don't like the model, then we can still change that..

Look up the symbolism/meaning of Venus and Zeitgeist  :unbelievable: , and look at it objectively...

Whats the Objective?
Zeitgeist is the Spirit, or Feeling of the Age...
Venus is the planet of Love of Pleasure.. It rules over the capacity to express affection, and to enjoy beauty, art, the social graces, harmony, etc..

Tell me this is not something you'd want..?
We need some more diverse minds involved with Zeitgeist and the Venus project..

Here's a way it can get started starting from the bottom..
Transition Towns


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13887695 - 02/01/11 01:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
Quote:


Unless those passions happen to conflict with this top-down utopian human ant farm.



For example?



The video is full of examples talking about using "science" to design cities in the way that the Zeitgeist people think we should.  I think what their version of "science" misses out on is the science of human creativity and the spontaneity of the market.

Quote:

Quote:


I disagree.  Such outcomes will have to come from economic reforms, not technology.



The technology already exists..
Ever heard of the Hutchinson Effect?



Irrelevant.  The technology has existed for years, but it's not a technological problem.  There's already enough food to feed the world.  The issue is distribution.  That's why we need to reform our economic institutions.  Reform our money, taxes, and trade.  It's as simple as that.


--------------------

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InvisibleFunkMasterShroom
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13888422 - 02/01/11 03:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
Quote:


Unless those passions happen to conflict with this top-down utopian human ant farm.



For example?



The video is full of examples talking about using "science" to design cities in the way that the Zeitgeist people think we should.  I think what their version of "science" misses out on is the science of human creativity and the spontaneity of the market.





I was asking for an example of a Passion of yours that goes against the ideas in the Venus Project..
And if you consider things realistically from the now POV, do you really foresee yourself living long enough to be in the Example they are showing... Remember Transition..

Quote:


That's why we need to reform our economic institutions.  Reform our money, taxes, and trade.  It's as simple as that.



Thats the exact thing the Venus Project is suggesting.. And fundamentally, I'd prefer a resource based economy, then we would have Full potential to explore our spontaneity and creativity..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888455 - 02/01/11 03:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

There's already enough food to feed the world.  The issue is distribution




Precisely. This is an interesting short video



--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888500 - 02/01/11 03:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
I was asking for an example of a Passion of yours that goes against the ideas in the Venus Project..



Suppose someone has a passion for living alone in the woods.  How's that fit into these futuristic cities?  Furthermore, suppose someone has a passion for architecture, and wants to design beautiful buildings, but can't because these whole cities are designed by "science," which they therefore have no ground to argue against.

Quote:

And if you consider things realistically from the now POV, do you really foresee yourself living long enough to be in the Example they are showing... Remember Transition..



But what is the transition?  They don't touch on it one bit in that movie.  It's just a bunch of pretty pictures of futuristic cities and talking about how we'll all follow the laws of science as our guide.

Quote:

Thats the exact thing the Venus Project is suggesting.. And fundamentally, I'd prefer a resource based economy, then we would have Full potential to explore our spontaneity and creativity..



No, the Venus project is not talking about reforming money.  They're talking about abolishing it.  A ridiculous idea, IMO.  There are ways of making money more resource-like, but getting rid of it is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: soldatheero]
    #13888518 - 02/01/11 03:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Quote:

There's already enough food to feed the world.  The issue is distribution




Precisely. This is an interesting short video





Excellent video.  For a more in-depth understanding of poverty, I'd suggest watching this documentary:



It's called "The End of Poverty."

(Warning: Documentary is interspersed with ads to make it playable on YouTube)


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Edited by Silversoul (02/01/11 04:01 PM)

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13888566 - 02/01/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Suppose someone has a passion for living alone in the woods.  How's that fit into these futuristic cities?  Furthermore, suppose someone has a passion for architecture, and wants to design beautiful buildings, but can't because these whole cities are designed by "science," which they therefore have no ground to argue against.



These where exactly the same issues I had with how it was presented to me. But the fact is, if the world is working in a resource based economy, then everyone will get to do and live as he/she feels.. In a city, in the woods, automated, or good ol' fashion sweat and blood..

Quote:


But what is the transition?  They don't touch on it one bit in that movie.  It's just a bunch of pretty pictures of futuristic cities and talking about how we'll all follow the laws of science as our guide.



Agreed, but consider that it is a Pilot project, and needs as many alternatives and diverse minds as possible involved..

Quote:

No, the Venus project is not talking about reforming money.  They're talking about abolishing it.  A ridiculous idea, IMO.  There are ways of making money more resource-like, but getting rid of it is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.



Lol, again this was my issue with how it was presented.. Very Idealistic, and Top Down.. But the fact is, we cant just abolish money like that. To have a totally resource based economy is an Ideal, but the process of getting there would be what your talking about, making the current system more resource based.

Again and again, we need OUR minds involved in this Movement/Project, to bring up these kinds of things/issues/challanges, and make these validations..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888576 - 02/01/11 03:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If this is movement means nothing more than "shit is fucked up and we need to change it," then I'm on board.  But the movies seem to be saying something much more than that.


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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888619 - 02/01/11 04:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
Quote:


I disagree.  Such outcomes will have to come from economic reforms, not technology.



The technology already exists..
Ever heard of the Hutchinson Effect?




What about it?

"This 'Hutchison Effect' has been claimed for years, without any independent verification — ever. In fact, its originator can't even replicate it on demand. This has been investigated more than once, been part of documentaries on The Discovery Channel, but still never seems to pass critical muster. This is in the category of folklore."
--Marc Millis, administrator of the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program for NASA


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13888643 - 02/01/11 04:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I hear you, and am right there with you..
Like I said, the movies are limited, and even premodern-futuristic thinking..

It literally is that shit is bad and we need to change, Zeitgeist is the name that's been given to it, and Venus project is the so called solution.. But they are new, and need to be developed.. They are showing an example of a potential.. And I dont exactly like the look of bubble houses myself, and would much rather live uncentralized, and do most of my own shit, like laundry, and dishes, and cooking..

The best place to start is with Transition Towns.. In my opinion.. Again there are issues to be had with this concenpt as well.. (like the controversies of peak-oil, and climate change..)

but, at least there is a Movement.. :o
I'm saying, it's already started, all we have to do is get on board, and get involved if we dont like how it's unfolding/presented.. At least there is a movement to get on board with.. better then just additively posting our opinions on forums..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888652 - 02/01/11 04:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

--Marc Millis, administrator of the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program for NASA




NASA... yea.. i sure trust them..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888671 - 02/01/11 04:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Are you going to address the substance of what he said or just try to impugn the messenger?  What do you have against NASA, anyway?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: deCypher]
    #13888758 - 02/01/11 04:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Look, when it comes to powerful scientific communities in our world, with so many of it's so called problems, why dont these communities, use their science, and power, to do something about it.. ?

I have no faith, or Trust in systems that have continuously mislead, and misguided the very people they are meant to be helping.

The fact is these kinds of technologies do exist, and far more advanced ones as well. But will anyone with the power and resources bring them out to the public..? The diabolism goes very very deep..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888798 - 02/01/11 04:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
The fact is these kinds of technologies do exist, and far more advanced ones as well.




Just sticking to the Hutchison effect, it appears that Hutchison himself can't replicate his supposed original results... seems a little suspicious to me.  :shrug:

What other antigravity technologies are you suggesting exist?


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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: deCypher]
    #13888828 - 02/01/11 04:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"Several laboratories, from scientifically recognized institutions such as NASA and the Max Planck Institute, have attempted to reproduce his experiments, but so far none has been capable of reproducing his results. In fact John Hutchison himself hasn't been capable of reproducing his own results for a long period of time. He explains that this is because of the great loss of equipment due to the military intelligence service destruction of his lab, or because he has been restricted by the government from doing his experiments. Most scientists assume that his results are a hoax."

Read the lines and then
read between the lines....


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888843 - 02/01/11 04:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The simplest explanation IMO is that the Hutchison effect does not exist; otherwise one would have to postulate vast conspiracies and that our current theories of modern physics (which sufficiently explain practically every phenomena we've tested them on) are wrong.  :shrug2:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13888925 - 02/01/11 05:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

(which sufficiently explain practically every phenomena we've tested them on)





Woa woa woa.. What now?
Okay, most of modern physics is still Newtonian.. and there are countless experiments tested that it cannot explain, let alone sufficiently explain..

As for quantum physics(or beyond), much of it is still considered theory, because of the vast probabilistic nature of it.. (that anything can be shown to happen at least once, if it can be reproduced or not is another story..) So tell me again.. how has our physics sufficiently explained, practically.. (How practical are things.. really?) every phenomena (which by definition would no longer be a phenomena..)

The fact is, that Quantum physics tells us Newtonian Physics is wrong, or at the very least incomplete.. but so does an honest and objective assesment of reality..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

Edited by FunkMasterShroom (02/01/11 05:02 PM)

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13889186 - 02/01/11 05:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FunkMasterShroom said:
Okay, most of modern physics is still Newtonian




It depends on what scale you're talking about.  For sizes that we humans are most familiar with, Newtonian mechanics works just fine.  Beyond that, we use Einsteinian physics (relativity) to deal with extreme phenomena, and if we're talking about phenomena on the microscale then we use quantum physics.  We have yet to devise a unified theory that applies at all scales, but my point is that these theories work at their appropriate levels of explanation.  At any rate, we would have to significantly revise these if antigravity actually was possible.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: deCypher]
    #13890818 - 02/01/11 09:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

YO there is a review of ZEITGEIST on right now on the truth channle JUSTINTV.
check it out

http://www.justin.tv/montydj1#/w/819417056/9


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: soldatheero]
    #13894404 - 02/02/11 03:31 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I watched it and it was Peter Joseph getting interviewed. He seems like a very intelligent dude, although very cynical.

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13894456 - 02/02/11 03:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I watched it and it was Peter Joseph getting interviewed. He seems like a very intelligent dude, although very cynical.



Cynical and quite arrogant, I thought.  I agree he seems quite intelligent, but very much set on a single way of doing things, utterly convinced that his way is the only way, and dismissive of any other perspectives or alternatives.  I think that came across strongly in the Zeitgeist movies, which is what really bugged me about them.


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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: Silversoul]
    #13894469 - 02/02/11 03:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yea I can definitely see that. I think to save the world we are all going to have to learn to bend a little, others a lot. :lol:

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13894494 - 02/02/11 03:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cynical and quite arrogant,




Hasnt most of us been like this on here before..?
For myself, it was the shroomery discussions that actually taught me to become more humble, and open-minded with my perspectives.. (mind you it still surprises me how many assholes are still on here)

Maybe he could use a little shroomery..


--------------------
Why did the chicken cross the road?
To get to the other side.

"Adapt.
Adjust.
Accommodate."

"Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks

It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: FunkMasterShroom]
    #13894514 - 02/02/11 03:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I laugh when I read some of my older posts in my conspiracy theory days. I was the epitome of cynical :lol:

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Re: ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011 [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13895628 - 02/02/11 07:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
I watched it and it was Peter Joseph getting interviewed. He seems like a very intelligent dude, although very cynical.




IME the two are related.

Although every now and again you find a guy who isn't cynical AND can provide rational reasons for his hope.  That guys gets famous. :smile:


--------------------
What's up everybody?!

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