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 GazzBut
Refraction
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 Re: Fuck France!  [Re: Lana]
#1389648 - 03/18/03 11:17 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Iraq has use chemical weapons ON THEIR OWN PEOPLE!! Where was France then?
Where the fuck was the US?. ~ THE US WAS TRYING TO CONVINCE THE WORLD THAT IT WAS IRAN WHO HAD LAUNCHED THE ATTACK. SHORTLY AFTER THAT THE US WERE LOANING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO IRAQ.
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Pick a side and stand with it.
Even if you pick the worng side? that would be intelligent wouldnt it. To paraphase Ghandi "He who can change his mind is a truly wise man."
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
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The UN is far from dead Inny.
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
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i guess i have to keep repeating this but they, meaning all 15 UN members agreed to 1441 in december. Apparantly it's ok to sign resolutions and NOT back them up.
But as John Negroponte said 1441 didnt have any hidden triggers or automaticity to war. How many more times do I have to tell you this inny?
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Always Smi2le
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zeronio
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i guess i have to keep repeating this but they, meaning all 15 UN members agreed to 1441 in december. Apparantly it's ok to sign resolutions and NOT back them up.
That resolution was always interpreted in different ways. When it was signed the France said that they succeeded in removing from it the possibility of automatic use of force, while USA said that the automatic use of force is possible according to that resolution. So basically they always backed up the resolution as they understood it.
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 Innvertigo
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: GazzBut]
#1389692 - 03/19/03 12:19 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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But as John Negroponte said 1441 didnt have any hidden triggers or automaticity to war
what were we suppossed to do once the resolution was violated? Tickle Saddam to death? It was apparant to EVERYONE in the UN that this was to be. I'll say it again, read 1441 and it becomes apparant.
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many more times do I have to tell you this inny?
only once..until you read it.
23 hours 36 minutes
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: zeronio]
#1389698 - 03/19/03 12:31 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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That resolution was always interpreted in different ways.
doesn't sound to United then...15-0 with different interpretations? right... 
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When it was signed the France said that they succeeded in removing from it the possibility of automatic use of force,
Please tell me when and where this was said.
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while USA said that the automatic use of force is possible according to that resolution. So basically they always backed up the resolution as they understood it.
Well there are 30 countries and 15 backers that disagree with france and the promises made by the UN in 1441. There has never been a discussion until after france buckled about automatic invasion. This is some serious backtracking. If france showed reservation in 1441 then i'd agree with you.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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zeronio
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Eh... I have to search the net now.  I'll try to find the sources but do you really care?
I got the info I quoted from the TV news in my country. I remember it from that time:
There were negotiations about resolution 1441. The first draft made by USA was not accepted by France & Russia because it implied the automatic use of force. The USA changed a sentence to a different formulation to please them and then everybody signed it. Immediately after that they held a press conference where:
- French & Russian said that the corrected resolution does not imply automatic use of force and that's why they signed it.
- USA said that even the corrected resolution implies automatic use of force.
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Ellis Dee
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I'll say it again, read 1441 and it becomes apparant.
Have you read it? Do you have a link to the text? I'll read it too. Thanks.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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zeronio
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: zeronio]
#1389734 - 03/19/03 12:51 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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1441: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/SC7564.doc.htm
OK. Here's something... A press release of French embassy in Canada from 12.11.2002:
http://www.ambafrance-ca.org/english/press/dosactual/en_iraq.htm
"France therefore renounced the concept of automatic use of force"
However it's hard to find old documents about 1441 since this string is contained in millions of web pages.
Edited by zeronio (03/19/03 12:53 AM)
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GazzBut
Refraction
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So what the hell was John Nwgroponte talking about - Please tell me you have clicked on my link otherwise this is a pointless discussion.
Ive read 1441 by the way asshole and it is wide open to interpretation. This has been confirmed by Lawyers on both sides of the pond. You can pretty much read it how you want. But when there is footage of a high level US politician saying that resolution 1441 does not mean war I cant see why anyone is still arguing about it. Let it go inny. 1441 does not imply war it implies serious consequences.
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Innvertigo
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: Ellis Dee]
#1389752 - 03/19/03 12:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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U.N. Resolution 1441
there are a lot of sites who have it. Do a search on 1441. It's not "good reading" but the whole text is there.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Ellis Dee
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Thanks!
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: Ellis Dee]
#1389764 - 03/19/03 01:04 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area,
13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;
Dang, just skimming it it's pretty clear that this resolution was a sharp pointy stick up Saddam's butt.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Innvertigo
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: GazzBut]
#1389767 - 03/19/03 01:07 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ive read 1441 by the way asshole and it is wide open to interpretation
temper temper...so are your beliefs, open for interpretation. I don't think you've read it.
BTW nice vote in your congress 400+ to 100+ in favor..he he.
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This has been confirmed by Lawyers on both sides of the pond. You can pretty much read it how you want.
i think i can actually hear you turning into a french person. You seem to be living in a world of uncertainty, that must suck.
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But when there is footage of a high level US politician saying that resolution 1441 does not mean war I cant see why anyone is still arguing about it. Let it go inny.
you couldn't be more wrong. It's ok if your inability to hold your buddy saddam responsible for the violation of 1441 and other violations that qualify as a breach of the surrender agreements...you'll just have to live with that. If they have Chemical weapons will you be apologizing?
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1441 does not imply war it implies serious consequences.
Please tell me what would be considered "SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES"? more inspectors and death by tickling him?
22 hours 45 minutes....
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
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Quote:
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Iraq has use chemical weapons ON THEIR OWN PEOPLE!! Where was France then?
Where was the U.S. then?
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Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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Innvertigo
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: Learyfan]
#1389791 - 03/19/03 01:23 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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that pic always makes me giggle...even though you and I hardly agree, i like your pics. Keep it up.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Registered: 04/20/01
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Thanks Inny
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GazzBut
Refraction
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I don't think .
The most intelligent thing you ever said.
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temper temper...so are your beliefs, open for interpretation. I don't think you've read it.
BTW nice vote in your congress 400+ to 100+ in favor..he he.
The biggest goverment rebellion iin parliamentary history.
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i think i can actually hear you turning into a french person. You seem to be living in a world of uncertainty, that must suck.
This is your problem inny - You live in a world of certainties and they are all wrong!
So whats your take on what John Negroponte actually said. Are you denying he said it?
look up serious and consequences in any dictionary - You wont find the word war there I bet. Serious consequences = War = limited warmongering imagination.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: GazzBut]
#1390304 - 03/19/03 04:52 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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The most intelligent thing you ever said
*rim shot*
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The biggest goverment rebellion iin parliamentary history.
that's a rebellion? The American revolution was a rebellion, that was just a normal vote in the US.
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This is your problem inny - You live in a world of certainties and they are all wrong!
i know one certainty and that's that we have the support of approx 45 countries which include approx 15 muslim nations.
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So whats your take on what John Negroponte actually said. Are you denying he said it?
i'm sure he said it but it's BS because they've only been talking about it since the 15-0 vote. Besides you keep saying all this about them taking out the automatic attack but you've failed to show me where it says that in 1441. You must have missed that when you were reading it, or is it common in your parts to make resolutions based on side comments?
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look up serious and consequences in any dictionary - You wont find the word war there I bet. Serious consequences = War = limited warmongering imagination.
what in you're little mind would be Serious consequences? are you going to be the guy to tickle him to death?
you're getting desperate now, i love arguing with you but you're gaining no ground. You can rip on me all you want because i actually find it funny and entertaining, hell i do it myself. But i'm starting to show pity and that isn't good. Face it, you're beliefs stem from the hate of Bush, the United States and Western Values. Just admit it and move on.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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z@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
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Re: Fuck France! [Re: Lana]
#1390836 - 03/19/03 07:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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if "we loose" they'll just say, "we told ya so".
Don't think we have to worry about that.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
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