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OfflinePrimal Call
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Registered: 09/05/10
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Jumping right in! CR 6qt pins finally here
    #13869578 - 01/29/11 03:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Firstly, thanks to all of you contributing knowledge and opinions. I am feeling more and more prepared every day. :thumbup: I started in the MH&I forum, but I am here with much love. :heartpump: :amanita2: :mushroom2:

Part Deux,
I've been reading here and Stamets' GG&MM since October. While tempted to post my noob questions, I held off, and I am here to tell you all the search tool and "directionless" browsing have led to great discoveries. Undoubtedly, some of my questions are answerable only by attempting and failing/succeeding, but for now, I’d like you all to say hello to my identity/gender-confused friend Researching. Researching is going to outline some plans for a botany project or something... I'm gonna make a PB&J. :peace:

Hello all! Researching here! :thumbup:

edit: Removed a lot of the info from the original post because most of it got changed anyway. :laugh2:

CR on coir/verm/gypsum

Here's the 1st pin ever


and on day 10 of fruiting conditions. crazy upside-down mutant! :trippinballs:




That's it for now! Thanks again!

~ Researching

Wow! That was a delicious PB&J! I hope everyone is getting along! :bigkiss:  :peace:

Edited by Primal Call (04/01/11 09:55 PM)

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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13869650 - 01/29/11 04:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

cubes don't need casing, if you do, make sure it's a thin layer less than 1/2 inch I believe.

As for a bulk sub to spawn to, try to mix as much stuff as you can into the mix. Try coir/poo/verm/gypsum/coffee/worm casings, and anything else you can come up with. Make sure you have  a pressure cooker as that will be a "must have"

Other than that, the best way to learn is to start playing with what ya got! It's not a big deal about what kind of strain you use, get started and then start collecting strains :-)


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: slapphappypill]
    #13869701 - 01/29/11 05:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

you want gas exchange to happen. This means that if you incubate with that tub in tub thing you have a closed air environment. if you fill it up with jars it will stall halfway because no gas exchange happens.
Usually its better to just put them in a warm room that has pretty stable temps around the 65-70's F and put them high up.
What is your room temperature.


--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend

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OfflineLurkingWizards
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13869856 - 01/29/11 07:45 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Researching is a great friend and tool to have ready at your side, this is true. :headbang:

But there is nothing like Personal Experience.  After becoming more acquainted with this hobby in a more hands-on manner, you will get a better feel for things and be on your way to meeting your goals, ultimately.  It's a forgiving hobby. :mushroom2:

I admit that I also started with researching... for literally years, and was patient enough to wait for the right time to dive into this hobby, kinda face-first. I skipped pf-tek and started with semi-bulk mono-tubs instead, which is what alot of beginners do now.

This community is awesome, and becoming a member, only recently, has benefit me greatly.  I answered almost all of my own questions years ago about this hobby by reading the forums and using the search function.  Trust in the TC's and experiment with all acceptable parameters of growing to find what works best for YOU. :smile2:

On a side note, I usually use WBS, but when I do use rye grain... I just use the rye and a little gypsum, no yeast or coffee. yeast?
Also, I agree with the previous post about room temp., very common.

Good luck and looking forward to your grain-jar experiment. :learyharvard:


--------------------

Edited by LurkingWizards (01/29/11 07:48 AM)

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OfflineLurkingWizards
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13869889 - 01/29/11 08:07 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:

Specific questions first with thanks for responses! The outline is really for my instructor's sake as a way of keeping track of things, but thanks if you read through the whole post!:heart:

60qt tub 23" x 17" x 13.6". top of the tape line is 4.5in from the bottom. 1/4" holes every 2".
- is 3qt spawn and 9qt substrate enough?
- is dunking judged necessary always or on a case-by-case basis depending on moisture retention?
- if humidity is too low during fruiting, can a trained monkey cover the lower holes with tape to fix the problem?







yes. for a 60qt tub, 3:9 = 12 total qts... 12/60 = 20%... I usually use this method to see if the tub is filled enough.  I use enough total materials to fill 20%-30% of the tub volume(for mono-tubs).  If less is used, then the moisture level and humidity falls faster over time.  From my own experimentation, I have found this to be a helpful concept.

I always dunk after 1st harvest. Dunking is almost always a precursor in manipulating the second flush.  It is true that not all growers dunk, but I would recommend dunking for beginners.

My trained monkeys only use mono-tubs, so they are of no help with this particular question.  But I'm sure, with practice, that trained monkey will know what to do when the time comes.

Good luck as always. :trippinballs:


--------------------

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OfflineTetriana
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: virus1824]
    #13869895 - 01/29/11 08:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

virus1824 said:
you want gas exchange to happen. This means that if you incubate with that tub in tub thing you have a closed air environment. if you fill it up with jars it will stall halfway because no gas exchange happens.
Usually its better to just put them in a warm room that has pretty stable temps around the 65-70's F and put them high up.
What is your room temperature.




Gas exchange? What are you on about? Unless some fool decides to put a lid on their incubator they aren't going to have any problems with gas exchange. :fishsmack:

I have found my TiT to be a blessing during the winter months.


--------------------

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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Tetriana] * 1
    #13869958 - 01/29/11 08:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

60qt tub 23" x 17" x 13.6". top of the tape line is 4.5in from the bottom. 1/4" holes every 2".
- is 3qt spawn and 9qt substrate enough?
- is dunking judged necessary always or on a case-by-case basis depending on moisture retention?
- if humidity is too low during fruiting, can a trained monkey cover the lower holes with tape to fix the problem?

That's enough spawn if you're talking in real terms rather than nominal quarts. You only fill a spawn jar up to the shoulders, so 3 jars would really only be 2 quarts. Which would work, but lengthen the colonization time and you said you wanted to go high ratio.

Also I'd forget the coffee in the bulk sub. If you do use it, sterilize the fuck out of it. Don't pussy foot pasteurize it. Sterilize it separately and try to be clean when you're adding it to the pasteurized substrate. Personally I like the idea of using coffee with the spawn better than the bulk sub. It's coffee beans, makes sense they should go in the sterile phase with the grain.

I'm running shotgun tubs with all the holes wide open in an ambient humidity of 30's 40's. It does occasionally drop into the 20's and I make sure to get an extra misting in. But never is there a need to run around taping up holes.

Temperature and airflow has a much greater affect on evaporation rate in the tub. If you keep to the low 70's you'll find you have to make very little effort. But when you start getting high 70's / 80's there's some fast / uneven drying and it helps to raise the ambient humidity up to around 50+. I've been playing with these things for a while now. Keeping the temps down is really the best thing. And avoid creating a steady air current.

One last thing, the substrate density affects the rh in your tub. If you go super high spawn ratio you'll have a harder time keeping the right rh in the tub. You want the substrate to be a little on the spongy side.

If you suspect rh problems, use waxpaper to induce pinning, rather than closing off holes. It doesn't seem to matter as much after the initial pinning.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:

Edited by anonjon (01/29/11 08:45 AM)

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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Tetriana]
    #13870100 - 01/29/11 09:28 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tetriana said:
Quote:

virus1824 said:
you want gas exchange to happen. This means that if you incubate with that tub in tub thing you have a closed air environment. if you fill it up with jars it will stall halfway because no gas exchange happens.
Usually its better to just put them in a warm room that has pretty stable temps around the 65-70's F and put them high up.
What is your room temperature.




Gas exchange? What are you on about? Unless some fool decides to put a lid on their incubator they aren't going to have any problems with gas exchange. :fishsmack:

I have found my TiT to be a blessing during the winter months.




yea i am assuming he was gonna put a lid on it.


--------------------
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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: LurkingWizards]
    #13871135 - 01/29/11 01:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Researching is trying to answer all the questions/concerns... thanks for the input everyone! :laugh:

- Yes, it has a PC. 23q ftw

- The room temp is too low IMO... sometimes in the low 60's. So for the TiT, should Researching add holes to the lid until the temp & GE are stabilized?

- It thinks skipping PF tek is a good idea also, when possible. Both the coffee and the yeast are going to be in rather small proportions. It's nutritional yeast if that clears things up... just a dose of B vitamins basically. Like it said... an experiment :smile:

- If necessary, the wax paper would be placed on top of the substrate to induce pins, correct?

Thx again all! :thumbup: :bow2:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13874656 - 01/30/11 01:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Just a quick FYI, my entire growing room is 56-61 Degrees, all my jars sit in this room, and all my cakes are fruiting in this room. Temp just affects speed and from what i've heard it also affects how solid your fruits turn out. Colder temps cause the mushrooms to grow slower, allowing them to become more dense before harvest. I've had much better results leaving my jars in colder environment vs. the TIT I used to use at a steady 75 degrees. Just letting you know that it works great for me


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: slapphappypill]
    #13874672 - 01/30/11 01:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

slapphappypill said:
Just a quick FYI, my entire growing room is 56-61 Degrees, all my jars sit in this room, and all my cakes are fruiting in this room. Temp just affects speed and from what i've heard it also affects how solid your fruits turn out. Colder temps cause the mushrooms to grow slower, allowing them to become more dense before harvest. I've had much better results leaving my jars in colder environment vs. the TIT I used to use at a steady 75 degrees. Just letting you know that it works great for me





agreed, not sure about quite that low of temps, i try to stay in the 60-65 range and love the way my grows turn out

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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: biologys]
    #13874689 - 01/30/11 01:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, and i've heard of people fruiting even colder than I'm working at. as long as the RH and FAE are kept up, you'll be fine. Plus it's always a little warmer in the FC vs the rest of the room.


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13879123 - 01/30/11 09:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Awesome...Researching is good on temps then.. adjusted some stuff. Thanks again for the hints all! Syringes might be in a box tomorrow somewhere.


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13918513 - 02/06/11 10:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Researching inoc'd @ 8pm.

it thinks the jars with yeast/coffee were a PITA to shake up. water content might be a little low. the gypsum ones = ez

patience patience patience

new question... if the jar is capped like this

bandaid over 3/16" hole
sealing ring
tyvek
lid with three 3/32" holes and one 3/16"
tyvek
jar

is that enough for GE?


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! *DELETED* [Re: Primal Call]
    #13963992 - 02/14/11 08:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by Ryath

Reason for deletion: erased pics = pointless



--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Invisiblebiologys
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13964011 - 02/14/11 09:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

dont flip, shake at about 30 percent, then you can again at 70-75 percent if you want, i usually wait until fully colonize before i do a 2nd shake but thats just personal preferenc.

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13972401 - 02/16/11 07:14 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I think I read you're doing the very ancient tub-in-tub incubation setup.

Don't. It's bad news all around.

I used to do this, as well as many other users on here. It's all around a bad idea. Unavoidably, the water will become toxic with bacteria, and you'll basically be incubating your cultures in a tub surrounded by a mote of stagnant bacteria. Unless you're using professional-grade filter discs, it'll most likely infect the jars.

Having all cultures growing on a shelf or in a spare nook of the house - elevated at least 14-18" from the ground because that's the dirtiest air - is ideal.

If need be, space heaters are lees than $30.00 new from a hardware store or Wal-Fuck, and less than $15.00 used from a thrift store. That'll solve any colonization lag time you may have from a cold room temperature. My living quarters are usually kept around 60-65 degrees F because I like it chilly. I have a space heater in my grow area (aka closet  :smilingpuppy:  ) and the temperature stays around 75 degrees F. PERFECT for all things cubensis.

Also, I highly suggest the standard monotub. I have yet to see the weight from a "MSG" that I've seen from a monotub. My last bin yielded 7oz on the first flush, with a shitty substrate (coir) and with an even shittier pinset. The one thing that wasn't shitty was the substrate, and if it WERE :glittershitz: I probably would've yielded even more.

I've only grown two tubs before this, and I'm on my third now. Pretty damn good for starters, I'd say. :thumbup:

I have heard and seen from reliable users on here 8-9oz per 60-64 quart bin are the standard for a first flush with a monotub. Eatyualive reported pulling 10oz off one before.

I've seen nothing of this magnitude from a MSG bin.

Humidity is much easier to control with a monotub as well.

:goodluck:


--------------------
Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
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New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


We give cultivation advice here. :super:


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My Doggy Door Greenhouse!          First Ever Shmuvbox Tek!          Do Manure Right!

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: faceyneck]
    #13974074 - 02/16/11 02:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

thx a bunch facey... some good feedback there. the TiT has been scrapped, which gave Researching two more 60qt tubs to work with. SO...

1st go-around will be with the hybrid tub above. with some rearranging in the closet, Researching might be able to fit a standard mono (with the same substrate for comparison purposes) in the same space, but its growth will be a bit staggered from the hybrid tub if timing judgment is correct. on that note, anyone have a specific monotub tek to recommend?

for those who are interested in the nutrient experiment, both of the Huautla/Oaxaca with yeast/coffee are farthest along by quite a bit actually. All the others are at about the same pace, but there is one CR with yeast/coffee showing no signs of growth yet. It's still a bit early to draw any conclusions, and it is MS inoculation, but It is excited to see the final colonization times.

Thank you again for all the input everyone! :thumbup::mushroom2::bow2:

:peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: Primal Call]
    #13974213 - 02/16/11 03:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

thx a bunch facey... some good feedback there. the TiT has been scrapped, which gave Researching two more 60qt tubs to work with. SO...




:super:

Quote:

1st go-around will be with the hybrid tub above. with some rearranging in the closet, Researching might be able to fit a standard mono (with the same substrate for comparison purposes) in the same space, but its growth will be a bit staggered from the hybrid tub if timing judgment is correct. on that note, anyone have a specific monotub tek to recommend?




Indeed I do. :grin:

Use whatever substrate you want. Just be sure to properly pasteurize if using anything besides 100% coir.

I'd say about 10-12 quarts of substrate with 6 quart jars of spawn is an ideal ratio for a 60-64 quart bin. :banana:

Quote:

for those who are interested in the nutrient experiment, both of the Huautla/Oaxaca with yeast/coffee are farthest along by quite a bit actually. All the others are at about the same pace, but there is one CR with yeast/coffee showing no signs of growth yet. It's still a bit early to draw any conclusions, and it is MS inoculation, but It is excited to see the final colonization times.




There are VAST differences in colonization times between different strains. Redboy is by far the fastest colonizer I've ever grown, and as a 6-month old spore solution outperformed a Texas LC not too long ago. :eek:

So yeah, that's almost guaranteed what's going on there. :wink:

Quote:

Thank you again for all the input everyone! :thumbup::mushroom2::bow2:




:thanx: :hatsoff: :woot: :banana: :kenthumbup: :bananadance: :mushdance:


--------------------
Anything posted here, is total bullshit.
My Meyers-Briggs Personality: INTJ
New growers, or anyone else just needing help; I'm always glad to help right here. :grin:


We give cultivation advice here. :super:


AMU Q & A - We're glad to help
My Doggy Door Greenhouse!          First Ever Shmuvbox Tek!          Do Manure Right!

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OfflinePrimal Call
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Re: Jumping right in? Grain to wha?! [Re: faceyneck]
    #13975525 - 02/16/11 07:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Its getting a couple things prepared for future steps... pretty sure this lighting will be fine, but would like some reassurance. :blush:

2x: 120V 5k "soft daylight" bulbs

good enough and not gonna start any fires @ 12/12?


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:

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