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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
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Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13882447 - 01/31/11 02:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Basically you are saying that the laws of pedophilia should be enforced based on how much money the man or girl has.




no, that seems to be your statement, of course if you can show me where I
made it, feel free to do so



Quote:

maybe they should try that 24yo they were fucking, I'm sure he'd love to
destroy the evidence of his crimes for only a few hundred bucks
:pedobear:




Just for kicks I'll also draw quotes of you advocating physical assault against children.

Quote:

now why must you assume that just because I don't want to pay for someones
abortion that I must want them producing offspring, I'm all for throwing
them down a flight of stairs, call it punishment for making stupid
mistakes that they've surely already been warned against from various
sources including TV, billboards, school, parents, etc...




You are some class act. :thumbup:
But for some reason when I do it to my boss for failing to adequately understand the amount I should receive as a raise and that it should be payed retroactively for some period. I'm the bad guy.
:rolleyes:


Quote:

you're right about one thing, state funded abortion isnt fiscally sound,
nor are social programs that allow for us to support 'breeders' that do
nothing more than increase their government benefit check through their
breeding programs




I get it, so instead of supporting legislation that would prevent this problem with government funded baby machines. You want to support legislation that would prevent people who would be likely to be recipients of such programs from getting free abortions. Anyway your forgetting the other costs that I mentioned. For example, rape kits and exams can cost $800-1500, much less than a chemical abortion, even verifying a rape case is more expensive than just administering treatment.


Quote:

who needs an abortions more than they need to practice safe sex, if I make
a 'mistake', it comes out of my pocket, if you make a mistake, why should
I still have to pay for it, I had nothing to do with your improprieties




Since there is no net-loss (something you have already agreed with), nothing comes out of anyone's pocket. You are the one with this neurotic belief that you are paying for people's abortions. In reality, their abortions are basically paying for themselves. It is you who seems to want to erect an expensive bureaucratic procedure to with hold inexpensive medical treatment that could save more money than it costs just because you don't like the idea of anyone getting any thing for free from the government.

Quote:

I see you're all about keeping women as uneducated fuck dolls that have as
many abortions as possible instead if educating them on the practice of safe sex




Yea you got me, I'm conspiring to get rape victims and children hooked on abortions so that they just abort non-stop, because I am also a satanic atheist american doctor who likes to eat human fetuses.
:twisted:
That's why I didn't advocate the more humane and cost effective method of pushing someone like that down some stairs. Nobody ever racks up medicare expenses from falling down stairs right? It arz science!
:kingtard:

In the US, sex education is notorious for being woefully inadequate even compared to the rest of their education system. However, I don't see you backing any legislation who would help improve public knowledge on the matter, instead you want to remove the safety nets and force a poorly informed public to face consequences they may not be even mentally mature enough to understand.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (01/31/11 02:52 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13883285 - 01/31/11 05:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Quote:

now why must you assume that just because I dont want to pay for someones
abortion that I must want them producing offspring, I'm all for throwing
them down a flight of stairs, call it punishment for making stupid
mistakes that they've surely already been warned against from various
sources including TV, billboards, school, parents, etc...




You are some class act. :thumbup:
But for some reason when I do it to my boss for failing to adequately understand the amount I should receive as a raise and that it should be payed retroactively for some period. I'm the bad guy.




you seem to be the one supporting abortions over education


Quote:

Quote:

you're right about one thing, state funded abortion isnt fiscally sound,
nor are social programs that allow for us to support 'breeders' that do
nothing more than increase their government benefit check through their
breeding programs




I get it, so instead of supporting legislation that would prevent this problem with government funded baby machines. You want to support legislation that would prevent people who would be likely to be recipients of such programs from getting free abortions. Anyway your forgetting the other costs that I mentioned. For example, rape kits and exams can cost $800-1500, much less than a chemical abortion, even verifying a rape case is more expensive than just administering treatment.




legislation that would prevent this problem would be the elimination of
government aid, free abortions involve a hard shove and a set of steps,
cheap abortions involve a coat hanger and a plunger


Quote:

You are the one with this neurotic belief that you are paying for people's abortions. In reality, their abortions are basically paying for themselves.

Yea you got me, I'm conspiring to get rape victims and children hooked on abortions so that they just abort non-stop, because I am also a satanic atheist american doctor who likes to eat human fetuses.






no, if they were post birth abortions of the expectant welfare mothers then they'd be paying for themselves in the money save each time one goes in for a visit

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/01/19/philly-doctor-facing-8-counts-of-murder/



Quote:

That's why I didn't advocate the more humane and cost effective method of pushing someone like that down some stairs. Nobody ever racks up medicare expenses from falling down stairs right? It arz science!




not if you do it right, then there's only a burial cost


Quote:

In the US, sex education is notorious for being woefully inadequate even compared to the rest of their education system.





lol... it was pretty comprehensive if you paid attention, have sex, risk
pregnancy and STDs... girls cant get preggers if you put it in their butts
maybe that's the part they were lacking

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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13883297 - 01/31/11 05:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You really don't seem to know anything about sex ed in the States, prisoner...let alone effective sex ed.


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #13883395 - 01/31/11 05:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

He doesn't seem to know anything about anything on this topic.

He calls me misogynistic (or he would if he used such eloquent words) for advocating abortion coverage for stat rape and incest victims, and claims that people ought to just push them down the stairs instead in the same breath.

I'm not even going to respond to that last bunch.
:trollz:
(fake Russian accent)In shroomery political discussion moderators troll you.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13883481 - 01/31/11 05:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
He doesn't seem to know anything about anything on this topic.





Neither do you.  You seem to be mired in the notion that if I don't buy you something you are prohibited from having it.  This is false.  Like I said before, feel free to start an abortion fund for victims of stat rape and incest.  What else are you doing?


--------------------

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OfflineSmackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 575
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13885631 - 02/01/11 12:03 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Having read the law I don't believe that it requires the tax payers to pay for abortion at all.  If I take the Republican argument, it still does not mean free abortions for everyone. 

The majority of abortion will still be paid for by people who have them.  The only abortions that would be paid for are those with no means to have one or perhaps in very specific other cases.

In such circumstances failure to receive government assistant would prevent the abortion from happening.  As a practical matter failing to receive government assistance does 'forbid' someone from having one.  Similar to how getting rid of food stamps prevents people from eating food.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #13886338 - 02/01/11 06:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
You really don't seem to know anything about sex ed in the States, prisoner...let alone effective sex ed.





as was required in my bible belt school system I took it 3 times, 5th
grade, 6th grade and 8th grade, since then I've not gotten anyone pregnant
I didnt intend to and that was in my 30s, havent had any STDs and havent
had to get myself an abortion, all thanks to the sex ed classes I paid
attention in

one thing they didnt teach me in sex ed was that abortion is a form of
birth control, instead they taught me about condoms and the proper use of,
and that the health department gives them out free and without carding you
or judging you, I learned about other forms of birth control and they even
taught me how the reproductive system works and that was in the 1970s

were you under the impression that it was a class on how to score with
high school girls, if so I can understand your disappointment, do you
honestly believe that sex education has declined since then? are they now
teaching 5th graders that abortion is the best form of birth control?

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OfflineSmackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 575
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13887293 - 02/01/11 12:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

do you honestly believe that sex education has declined since then?




Yes, between "abstinence only" programs, general de-funding of non-essential classes and the gross disparity between urban and suburban school, I would no longer consider your experience to be a very common one.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Smackshadow]
    #13887344 - 02/01/11 12:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What's wrong with abstinence?  What defunding?  And there has always been a disparity between urban and suburban public schools.


--------------------

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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Posts: 218
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13887549 - 02/01/11 12:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
You really don't seem to know anything about sex ed in the States, prisoner...let alone effective sex ed.





as was required in my bible belt school system I took it 3 times, 5th
grade, 6th grade and 8th grade, since then I've not gotten anyone pregnant
I didnt intend to and that was in my 30s, havent had any STDs and havent
had to get myself an abortion, all thanks to the sex ed classes I paid
attention in

one thing they didnt teach me in sex ed was that abortion is a form of
birth control, instead they taught me about condoms and the proper use of,
and that the health department gives them out free and without carding you
or judging you, I learned about other forms of birth control and they even
taught me how the reproductive system works and that was in the 1970s

were you under the impression that it was a class on how to score with
high school girls, if so I can understand your disappointment, do you
honestly believe that sex education has declined since then? are they now
teaching 5th graders that abortion is the best form of birth control?




So, no. I guess you don't.


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan

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OfflineScavengerType
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Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #13887660 - 02/01/11 01:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Personally I think he's flame-baiting. How else could you explain it.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (02/01/11 01:23 PM)

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OfflineSmackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 575
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13887934 - 02/01/11 02:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What's wrong with abstinence?  What defunding?  And there has always been a disparity between urban and suburban public schools.




Abstinence is not sex education.  It fails to teach how to deal with actual sex appropriately.

The defunding of public education in general.  Liberal arts and health courses in particular.  Not to mention the end results of "no child left behind"

The disparity may have always been there but, my guess is that Prisoner1 was not on the losing end of that disparity.  Therefore his experiences are likely a-typical.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Smackshadow]
    #13887981 - 02/01/11 02:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smackshadow said:
Quote:

What's wrong with abstinence?  What defunding?  And there has always been a disparity between urban and suburban public schools.




Abstinence is not sex education.  It fails to teach how to deal with actual sex appropriately.




False.  It is the single most effective method to avoid STDs and unwanted pregnancy.  You should have paid more attention.
Quote:



The defunding of public education in general.  Liberal arts and health courses in particular.  Not to mention the end results of "no child left behind"




False the amount of money spent on education in this country has been steadily rising.  Sadly results have not kept pace with the dollar amounts spent.  See teacher's unions for an explanation of that phenomenon.  No child left behind has done fairly well at identifying shitty schools.  Unfortunately it hasn't done much about fixing them.
Quote:



The disparity may have always been there but, my guess is that Prisoner1 was not on the losing end of that disparity.  Therefore his experiences are likely a-typical.




I suspect Pris went to neither a suburban nor urban school.  But so what?  And just what part of "Wrap your fucking junk" is so difficult to understand?


--------------------

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13888413 - 02/01/11 03:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> False.  It is the single most effective method to avoid STDs and unwanted pregnancy.

Yes and no.  You are certainly correct in the statement you made, but when put against the power of a teenagers hormones, abstinence does not fair very well.

> False the amount of money spent on education in this country has been steadily rising.  Sadly results have not kept pace with the dollar amounts spent. 

Interestingly, the money spent on education rises as the number of teacher unions increase and at the same time the students performance decreases.  Coincidence?

> No child left behind has done fairly well at identifying shitty schools.  Unfortunately it hasn't done much about fixing them.

That is because the problem isn't shitty schools, but instead is shitty teachers that are protected from reprimand coupled with shitty parents that care more about their careers than raising their children.  Get rid of teacher unions and hold parents criminally liable for their children's school performance and student performance will improve dramatically.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Seuss]
    #13888530 - 02/01/11 03:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Get rid of teacher unions and hold parents criminally liable for their children's school performance and student performance will improve dramatically.




And you get angry when people call you a fascist?

Get rid of abstinence related education, almost entirely. It just doesn't work and a ridiculous focus on abstinence is the main problem with sex education in the US. Further I've seen a lot of abstinence speakers and shit in the US use ridiculous statistics that they pulled out of thin air on a regular basis. I for example once heard one say shit like condoms have a 20% chance of failure to protect from STDs. This kind of misinformation is the reason why abstinence based education is the problem, because it undermines all the factual education on the matter.

Can we guess where these programs come from? That's right, the same fundamentalists nut-bags who are trying to push this legislation with added support under the guise of tea-party themed cutting of government assistance.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Seuss]
    #13888600 - 02/01/11 04:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:


> No child left behind has done fairly well at identifying shitty schools.  Unfortunately it hasn't done much about fixing them.

That is because the problem isn't shitty schools, but instead is shitty teachers that are protected from reprimand coupled with shitty parents that care more about their careers than raising their children.  Get rid of teacher unions and hold parents criminally liable for their children's school performance and student performance will improve dramatically.




yep, additionally the schools mandate seems clearly to be most similar to a day care center (keep track of children, make sure they don't get hurt, and keep the parents happy with reports about how many gold stars their kid earned that week) rather than an education institution.  Plenty of parents trying to but in and impede any actual attempt to run an academic-oriented course and leave the kids responsible for their own mastery of the material.

Plenty of parents around here become incensensed if their kid gets bad grades "my child is special" and so forth, so the class starts to shift from being graded on knowledge (tests) to discipline and pointless excercises.  Then when the advanced class is filled with people who's only measure of merit is their mother's high opinion of them and their high marks in courses where 80% of the grade is discipline (keeping notes per teacher instructions, submission of repetitive homework on time, attendance, et cet), the class slows down to a crawl and the introduction of new material is substituted for by pointless required homework and rote memorization/repetition.

That was my experience in highschool.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying kids shouldn't be let into whatever class they want, I'm saying that them failing doesn't mean the teature is necessarily doing a bad job nor that the class needs to change.

The change when I got to college was amazing (at least my science classes, the general requirement courses were often the same bullshit)- there you weren't punished for having some perceived aptitude in the coursework, but are graded upon what you are able to know and do rather than symbolic but irrelevant markers such as submitting homework on time or bringing the correct sized binder et cet.

I personally think in the sciences many highschool teachers are woefully undereducated and incompetent by and large.  An education degree should not be the preferred credential to be a science teacher.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13888746 - 02/01/11 04:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> And you get angry when people call you a fascist?

Angry?  More amused that people have no idea what the word means and seem to inappropriately use it in place of authoritarian.  Does the shoe fit in this case, perhaps?  :grin:

> Get rid of abstinence related education, almost entirely.

Why?  As Zappa pointed out... oh wait, you don't see those, do you.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Seuss]
    #13888802 - 02/01/11 04:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

> Get rid of abstinence related education, almost entirely.

Why?  As Zappa pointed out... oh wait, you don't see those, do you.  :rolleyes:




Because its not education, its propaganda.  Education is learning things.  The laws and strategies regarding abstinence education typically are defined by suggesting the subjects of the 'education' be told to remain abstinent. 

Not only does this seem fundamentally wrong when the speaker is teh government, as it is in pretty much all relevant cases, but it encourages exagerations or outright falsehoods (mostly in good faith I'd imagine) to be offered as justifications for the mandated official position.  When someone asks why abstinence is the best course or why they should be abstinant, the teacher will be defensively drawn to proved a justification for the government-line that they are required by law to advance.  This is not education and is poor policy.

Whether we're talking about intelligent design or abstinance, I don't think government should be passing laws requiring certain views to be taught independantly of their representative relevance ot the subject of instruction (in creative design's case, of no relevance if the course is science, other than perhaps a current events thing).

I don't think the government should be "educating" people to have sex or abstain or do anthying.  Teach the subject- if that subject is human sexuality than teach it.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #13889546 - 02/01/11 06:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why are you afraid of informing kids that abstinence is the most effective method to avoid pregnancy and STDs?  That seems like some pretty fucking good edumacation right there, bub.


--------------------

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Rape Caucus [Re: Smackshadow]
    #13889603 - 02/01/11 06:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Smackshadow said:
Quote:

do you honestly believe that sex education has declined since then?




Yes, between "abstinence only" programs, general de-funding of non-essential classes and the gross disparity between urban and suburban school, I would no longer consider your experience to be a very common one.





I'm glad I live in the real america, rural georgia where sex education isnt
abstinence only, no clue what backward part of the country you live in but
around these parts sex ed still covers the topic of sex without forbidding
it, shit, the schools here dont even have a D.A.R.E. program

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* Thousands Raped in Congo.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
The_Red_Crayon 3,734 66 08/19/05 06:57 PM
by The_Red_Crayon
* Libyan Lawyer Gang Raped, Defecated On, Then Arrested
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Coaster 4,828 61 04/20/11 01:44 AM
by Coaster
* Rape 'a weapon' in Sudan war
( 1 2 all )
question_for_joo 2,208 20 07/20/04 04:59 AM
by Innvertigo
* palin "would oppose abortion even if my own daughter was raped"...
( 1 2 3 all )
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by Phred
* Jihad and rape go hand in hand
( 1 2 all )
Evolving 2,181 32 09/26/04 09:53 PM
by Phluck

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