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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
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Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen
#13868682 - 01/28/11 10:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not only was she an illegal immigrant, but she signed up for Social Security and Medicare under the name "Ann O' Connor". 
You can't make this shit up.
Not sure why, but I'm reminded of the end of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" when the bad guy reinflates himself.
"Holy shit, he's a Toon!"
Edited by jimbotron (01/28/11 10:38 PM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
#13868705 - 01/28/11 10:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Do as I say, not as I do...
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
#13868890 - 01/28/11 11:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok, what's funny about that or otherwise noteworthy?
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron] 2
#13869031 - 01/28/11 11:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
You can't make this shit up.
I'm pretty sure you can.
I'd like to see a better source before I go all believing it and shit.
-------------------- This space for rent
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13869362 - 01/29/11 01:27 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Did you even click through to the source?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html
Quote:
However, it was revealed in the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) that in the end Ayn was a vip-dipper as well. An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).
If you can't trust the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) then I'm not sure what kind of source you would accept.
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
#13869398 - 01/29/11 01:39 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Ok, what's funny about that or otherwise noteworthy?
What's funny about it is that Ayn Rand's entire career, legacy, and cult following is based upon the notion that anyone who takes one fucking cent from the government is a contemptible parasite whom the world would be better off without, etc etc.
Turns out, as soon as she got cancer, she planted her lips firmly on the government tit. Maybe she didn't make any money while she was alive? I thought she got pretty rich before she died. (At least I'd hope so, otherwise she died a failure by her own standards.)
I don't know if I'd exactly characterize it as "funny" so much as "damning". It's like, I dunno, the leader of an evangelical organization getting caught smoking meth with a gay hooker.
Okay, bad example. But you get the idea. She didn't practice what she preached. Emperor has no clothes, etc. Most people view that as a bad thing.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,122
Loc: Boston
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
#13869612 - 01/29/11 03:38 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are completely misinformed (not surprising). You should read what Rand wrote on taking government grants, social security, etc. It is NOT antithetical to her philosophy if you take these thing temporarily as a means to claim back what the government has already stolen from you all of your working life or (in the case of student grants, etc) what will in the future be taken from you when you work.
As long as you are not advocating for welfare programs and as long as you do not intend to stay on it long term, then there is no problem. Most of the times I have been out of work in my life IS directly a result of the government screwing the economy anyways. The fact is that welfare programs are sometimes the ONLY means that one can get the stolen loot back from the looters.
Heck, I have taken welfare between jobs, but the amount I got from that pales in comparison to what the government steal from me every year. In regard to getting medicare and medicaid, WHY THE HELL NOT? The government has ALREADY taken money out of my pocket and put it into these damn programs, forcing up the cost of healthcare and driving out competition! If other people who I don;t even know are going to benefit from that you are DAMN WELL sure that I am going to get my share out of it that I was made to pay the hell into. I never advocated for these damn programs to be there in the first place, they are NOT proper functions of government and I don't want them but I am FORCED to live with the reality that they exist!
So yeah, go get a clue. Read the articles and books that Rand wrote on her philosophy and how to apply it then come back and try again.
But of course, you won't do that because you have no interest in Ayn Rand or her philosophy other than in trying to find some holes in it or some discrepancy between her actions and her philosophy.
Do yourself a favor and quit wasting your time creating straw men and red herrings and actually do something productive with your life.
Edited by RationalEgo (01/29/11 08:06 AM)
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macmikem
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: RationalEgo]
#13869643 - 01/29/11 04:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am very glad I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead and The Virtues of Selfishness, et al. And a few times the first book. I can say that I learned a lot from her thinking, and it doesn't matter to me what happened in the end with her .... her line of reasoning worked for me in life.
And I try not to evade reality.
Just saying ..... !
-------------------- Jacks-house.com - the fucking freshest tech house on earth, Monday to Wednesday, evenings in the UK daytime in the US. This place is the BEST! By the way, god does not heal amputees.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,122
Loc: Boston
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: macmikem]
#13869813 - 01/29/11 07:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good to hear! 
Oh and to the OP: As for her 'illegal immigration' status, who the hell cares if she was an 'illegal' immigrant in the period after her visa expired and before she got married. That means exactly NOTHING.
FYI that is not hypocritical at all! She was an advocate of Open Immigration policy and immigration laws in this country are a fucking joke!
Case....Fucking....Closed.
/thread
Edited by RationalEgo (01/29/11 07:50 AM)
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
#13869885 - 01/29/11 08:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said: Not only was she an illegal immigrant, but she signed up for Social Security and Medicare under the name "Ann O' Connor". 
You can't make this shit up.
social security isnt government assistance, it's money payed into a retirement fund and medicare is paid into via the deductions from a paycheck in addition to being repaid posthumously
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: RationalEgo]
#13869886 - 01/29/11 08:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RationalEgo said: immigration laws in this country are a fucking joke!
it's the enforcement that's a joke
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,122
Loc: Boston
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Prisoner#1]
#13869892 - 01/29/11 08:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm with Yaron on this one. But I agree that the borders are not being properly controlled and protected.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: RationalEgo]
#13870027 - 01/29/11 09:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread. Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true. If you marry a citizen then you are legal.
As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes? A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits. Not someone who does pay taxes. I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis


Registered: 06/15/09
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Loc: Boston
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13870078 - 01/29/11 09:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good points. I had no idea about the 'illegal' immigrant stuff until jimbo spouted it. But I couldn't care less even if it were true.
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HippieChick8
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13870422 - 01/29/11 10:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread. Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true. If you marry a citizen then you are legal.
As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes? A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits. Not someone who does pay taxes. I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.
You seem to be softening your position on people who receive government benefits. You said ANYONE who receives ANY kind of government benefit, even UI, no matter how long they have worked and paid taxes, is a PARASITE.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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No, just those who don't have a particular gross income. Apparently if the government throws some money down a hole that means I'm a parasite for driving on the roads if others have paid more into the money pit than I- regardless of whether I am costing the government any money at all or whether the taxes paid exceed the costs. (generally he ignores everything but income tax for reasons that aren't particularly clear given his treatment of the rest of the monies as fungible contributions to some ill-defined whole that road-drivers have some burden to support).
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread. Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true. If you marry a citizen then you are legal.
As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes? A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits. Not someone who does pay taxes. I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.
You seem to be softening your position on people who receive government benefits. You said ANYONE who receives ANY kind of government benefit, even UI, no matter how long they have worked and paid taxes, is a PARASITE.
No I didn't. I said everybody who hasn't paid their share is a parasite. And by share I mean direct portion regardless of income. 95% of people are parasites because they pay less than their share. I suspect Ayn Rand more than paid her share over her lifetime.
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nanomagnetic
cascadian



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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871456 - 01/29/11 03:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread. Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true. If you marry a citizen then you are legal.
As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes? A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits. Not someone who does pay taxes. I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.
You seem to be softening your position on people who receive government benefits. You said ANYONE who receives ANY kind of government benefit, even UI, no matter how long they have worked and paid taxes, is a PARASITE.
No I didn't. I said everybody who hasn't paid their share is a parasite. And by share I mean direct portion regardless of income. 95% of people are parasites because they pay less than their share. I suspect Ayn Rand more than paid her share over her lifetime.
I like to see some mathematics on that point.
-------------------- Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever. The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax. The rest aren't paying their way.
--------------------
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871501 - 01/29/11 03:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
-------------------- This space for rent
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nanomagnetic
cascadian



Registered: 12/26/09
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871517 - 01/29/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I guess if you're talking purely dollars and cents it works that way. Seems misleading.
-------------------- Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever. The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13871545 - 01/29/11 03:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
ORLY?
What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites. That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate). If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871646 - 01/29/11 03:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax. The rest aren't paying their way.
but their raking in 99%+ of the income..and yet pay only 60% of the taxes...and that missing 39% far outweighs the combined wages of the lower 95%...
--------------------
"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Annapurna1]
#13871695 - 01/29/11 03:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax. The rest aren't paying their way.
but their raking in 99%+ of the income..and yet pay only 60% of the taxes...and that missing 39% far outweighs the combined wages of the lower 95%...
No they aren't.
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm
Quote:
# The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.
# The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.
Keep sticking your head out anna. I pinatas.
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nanomagnetic
cascadian



Registered: 12/26/09
Posts: 218
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871759 - 01/29/11 04:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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You wouldn't happen to have numbers on the amount of GDP the lower quintiles produce or the amount of leeching everyone is doing on past accomplishments. Not to detract from your pragmatic approach.
-------------------- Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever. The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
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Who cares, he's just trollin anyway. As if my employers don't save cash because I can get to work easily or have free healthcare if I get injured. When is he going to start calling the manufacturers who need paved roads and government financed inferstructure moochers?
 Never, that's when.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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broken
455 member(s)



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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871944 - 01/29/11 04:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax. The rest aren't paying their way.
i'd say it's corporations making BILLIONS of dollars that are not paying their fair share.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: Who cares, he's just trollin anyway. As if my employers don't save cash because I can get to work easily or have free healthcare if I get injured. When is he going to start calling the manufacturers who need paved roads and government financed inferstructure moochers?
 Never, that's when.
The manufacturers paid for the fucking roads. Who benefits more form the roads? The manufacturers or the customers who get cheaper products or the employees who get paid more because transportation is subsidized? Could you be simpler?
There is no such thing as free health care.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: broken]
#13871973 - 01/29/11 04:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
closed veil said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax. The rest aren't paying their way.
i'd say it's corporations making BILLIONS of dollars that are not paying their fair share.
Why? The owners pay taxes on the income they make. Why are there two levels of taxation? What do you pay?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Quote:
nanomagnetic said: You wouldn't happen to have numbers on the amount of GDP the lower quintiles produce or the amount of leeching everyone is doing on past accomplishments. Not to detract from your pragmatic approach.
What do you mean by produce? Produce what?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: Who cares, he's just trollin anyway.
 Never, that's when.
By the way, the last person who should be calling me a troll in response to my posts is you, sweetheart. You can't even see my posts and yet you have the nerve to comment? Wooza troll? Yooza troll. Slag off.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13872683 - 01/29/11 06:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
ORLY?
What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites. That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate). If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.
By your own reasoning, then, there is only one person in America who is not a parasite, and that is whomever paid the most taxes.
Why did you chose 5% as the cutoff point, anyway?
-------------------- This space for rent
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13872734 - 01/29/11 07:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Some people here might like this program.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13875709 - 01/30/11 09:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
ORLY?
What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites. That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate). If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.
By your own reasoning, then, there is only one person in America who is not a parasite, and that is whomever paid the most taxes.
No. Anybody who paid more in taxes than the total budget divided by the total number of people is not a parasite. Anybody who paid less is to one extent or another parasitic.Quote:
Why did you chose 5% as the cutoff point, anyway?
Because that was the point at which they paid more than half the taxes. On further review of the statistics I cited the next 5% also pays more than their share, 10% roughly. It's only 1/6th the contribution of the top 5% but still above water. Then we have the next 15% who pay 15% of the taxes, essentially even for the total group but mostly borne by the top of it. So, upon further analysis, I'm going to revise my point of parasitism down to somewhere around 15%.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13876865 - 01/30/11 02:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
ScavengerType said: Who cares, he's just trollin anyway. As if my employers don't save cash because I can get to work easily or have free healthcare if I get injured. When is he going to start calling the manufacturers who need paved roads and government financed inferstructure moochers?
 Never, that's when.
The manufacturers paid for the fucking roads. Who benefits more form the roads? The manufacturers or the customers who get cheaper products or the employees who get paid more because transportation is subsidized? Could you be simpler?
There is no such thing as free health care.
Around my house the roads are not paved, nor is my driveway. We have a volunteer fire department, of which my husband is a volunteer firefighter. We don't have natural gas lines out here, which is fine because we don't need it. We don't have sewer, but our septic tank works fine. So you see, city boy, we don't have all the services that you have so why should we have to pay as many taxes as you?
Oh and another good thing about living in the country is that there are rarely cops out here. We call the cops as a last resort when there's a problem unlike some rich folks who call the cops over a smashed Halloween pumpkin.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said: unlike some rich folks who call the cops over a smashed Halloween pumpkin. 
At least someone was actually harmed in that situation, as minor as it is. Round here by far the most frequent criminal cases involve speeding and other bullshit victimless offenses (which, btw, pay the same court costs to the city and the public defender fund as the offense of capital murder- you can see where their priorities lie with 'crime')
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
The manufacturers paid for the fucking roads. Who benefits more form the roads? The manufacturers or the customers who get cheaper products or the employees who get paid more because transportation is subsidized? Could you be simpler?
There is no such thing as free health care.
The people who buy taxed gasoline pay for the roads hipiechick seems like she might use, and those the manufacturers use to reach her (interstates and other federally funded highways), in large party. The consumers pay for the expenses of the shipping and production of what they use. Fine.
Someone throwing money into a whole doesn't create a moral obligation upon me to contribute by your apparently-arbitrary schedule of costs. If you pay more than you cost, which I imagine is generally the case for working people without kids who aren't on any sort of public assistance or grant system, even those of very low means, then you certianly don't seem to be recieving any particular discount relative to the value of services recieved.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
#13877710 - 01/30/11 04:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gasoline taxes don't come near paying for roads and there is a whole lot else you get. Sometimes without even knowing it.
To each of you, how much federal income tax did you pay last year?
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13880667 - 01/31/11 07:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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None. Zip.
What does the amount of federal income tax have to do with anything anyways? Seems a pretty arbitrary metric. Either way, I paid the feds more tax than any other entity, I believe- including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.
Your claims seem like ad hoc assertions- I'd like to see an accounting for them and, more to the point, how a person driving on the roads is a leach if they've paid less than their per capita average income tax.
(btw, capital gains are included in the income tax statistics I suppose, yes?)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
#13880741 - 01/31/11 08:42 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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> including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.
I didn't realize the fed had any motor vehicle registration fees. I thought that was all state regulated.
On a slightly different note, I wonder what would happen to the makeup of congress if federal elections weighted the ballots cast by the amount of funding the voter provides to the federal government. In other words, somebody with a large tax burden would get a lot more votes than somebody that doesn't pay any taxes.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Seuss]
#13880775 - 01/31/11 08:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.
I didn't realize the fed had any motor vehicle registration fees. I thought that was all state regulated.
This was my point. Despite having paid no federal income tax, my federal taxes remained greater than that due to any other entity, even including state motor vehicle fees, licensing fees, et cet.
This seems highly suspect given the nature of my activities being confined to a small local area that provides typical government services. So why do I still pay more to the feds? I guess cause they can get away with it- same reason why the socialized healthcare proposals are all sought to be implemented federally rather than at the state level where it might actually be constitutional
Through political and financial maneuverings, it seems the federal government is largely usurping and prohibiting the states their role as the laboratories of the nation in terms of public policy- a decidedly undemocratic and unwise move, I'd think.
Quote:
On a slightly different note, I wonder what would happen to the makeup of congress if federal elections weighted the ballots cast by the amount of funding the voter provides to the federal government. In other words, somebody with a large tax burden would get a lot more votes than somebody that doesn't pay any taxes.
Interesting thoughts. It would be interesting for sure, though I'd worry about corporatism/fascism resulting. Would voting by limited to natural persons?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
#13881364 - 01/31/11 11:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: None. Zip.
What does the amount of federal income tax have to do with anything anyways? Seems a pretty arbitrary metric. Either way, I paid the feds more tax than any other entity, I believe- including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.
Your claims seem like ad hoc assertions- I'd like to see an accounting for them and, more to the point, how a person driving on the roads is a leach if they've paid less than their per capita average income tax.
(btw, capital gains are included in the income tax statistics I suppose, yes?)
I don't know.
It isn't just that you drive on the roads but that you avail yourself of all the services of the federal government.
I'm going to assume that by stating that you pay more to the federal government than to any other entity you are including payroll taxes (soc sec and MC/MA). So does everybody else, at the same percentage. Except the top 1% will never get any benefit from MC/MA and soc sec payments determine your benefits. The people who pay more get screwed more.
If you pay zero in federal income tax you are freeloading, plain and simple.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
#13881400 - 01/31/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here's another yummy little data point I ran into today
http://theblogprof.blogspot.com/2011/01/obama-sotu-2010-redux-if-we-truly-care.html
Quote:
The rich in this country pay far more than their fair share. And not only does bottom 47% of taxpayers pay no federal income tax, but the bottom 40% GET MONEY BACK! The top 5% pay about 60% of the federal tax bill. It's now gotten so bad, so unfair, that the top 1% pay more in federal taxes than the bottom 95%:
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13881617 - 01/31/11 12:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: It's now gotten so bad, so unfair, that the top 1% pay more in federal taxes than the bottom 95%:
You do know that would be the same even with a flat-rate income tax system in place, right?
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13882155 - 01/31/11 01:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
ORLY?
What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites. That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate). If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.
So what would be the best way to kill them?
--------------------
"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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> So what would be the best way to kill them?
Why kill them? Put them to work and let them earn their keep.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Seuss]
#13882296 - 01/31/11 02:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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theres a name for that..its called "socialism"...
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Seuss]
#13882323 - 01/31/11 02:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > So what would be the best way to kill them?
Why kill them? Put them to work and let them earn their keep.
Yeah, slaves are entertaining, even though we have the grave space.
--------------------
"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: ChuangTzu]
#13883525 - 01/31/11 05:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: It's now gotten so bad, so unfair, that the top 1% pay more in federal taxes than the bottom 95%:
You do know that would be the same even with a flat-rate income tax system in place, right?
Nope. Not even close.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Apollyphelion said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
ORLY?
What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites. That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate). If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.
So what would be the best way to kill them?
Why bother?
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13883961 - 01/31/11 07:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Apollyphelion said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.
ORLY?
What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites. That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate). If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.
So what would be the best way to kill them?
Why bother?
Well, parasites should be exterminated. I'm sure there are ways to either put the bugs to use by slavery; otherwise pesticides are probably available to do the job. Either death or slavery is looking like the best way to solve this problem. It might seem like a skewed sense of compassion, but mass graves may actually solve many problems in the u.s.a, plus any parasite willing to step up to dig the graves may be saved from themselves.
TL;DR: Create jobs, save lives.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Usually they just die off if you don't feed them. You get a lot less if them, anyway.
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


Registered: 03/15/07
Posts: 16,757
Loc: Festival of Deaths
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13884425 - 01/31/11 08:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Starvation, why didn't I think of that. I'm just learning about politics.
--------------------
"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 48 minutes
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Wars are a good way of getting rid of excess population, especially the poor ones.
-------------------- This space for rent
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13886759 - 02/01/11 09:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: Wars are a good way of getting rid of excess population, especially the poor ones.
Hardly. I don't think there has been a significantly population reducing war since WW1. Maybe not even that one.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13887810 - 02/01/11 01:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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We need to start putting pregnant women on the front lines, then.
-------------------- This space for rent
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13887879 - 02/01/11 02:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: We need to start putting pregnant women on the front lines, then.
"We"? Who you talkin' 'bout "we"?
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13888825 - 02/01/11 04:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Usually they just die off if you don't feed them. You get a lot less if them, anyway.
This coming from a guy who doesn't raise any of his own food. How about if all the "low level" farm workers stop feeding YOU!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Are you really going that far down the cavegirl route? Because I know you didn't grow your own computer.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13890005 - 02/01/11 07:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Usually they just die off if you don't feed them. You get a lot less if them, anyway.
This coming from a guy who doesn't raise any of his own food. How about if all the "low level" farm workers stop feeding YOU!
How about it? Seriously, so what if they do? Other than his other silly argument about just who is a parasite, he isn't demanding they do anything in particular, contrary to the position he argues against.
The benefit of a free society with a free market is that they are free to stop providing him food anytime they want. Freedom is nice, isn't it?
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Are you really going that far down the cavegirl route? Because I know you didn't grow your own computer.
Maybe she bought some carbon offsets? That seems to justify whatever behavior you wish to indulge in, regardless of whether the ills resultant are limited to greenhouse gas emissions or not.
Apparently you can buy these things from yourself, too.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
#13901326 - 02/03/11 06:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Johnm said:
Quote:
How about it? Seriously, so what if they do? Other than his other silly argument about just who is a parasite, he isn't demanding they do anything in particular, contrary to the position he argues against.
The benefit of a free society with a free market is that they are free to stop providing him food anytime they want. Freedom is nice, isn't it?
He often says that poor people are worthless. Yet, without the poor, Zappa would have to not only produce his own food, but he would have to clean his own house and do all kinds of grunt work that he considers to be beneath him. So I don't understand why he is constantly bitching about them.
My computer may have been invented by the middle class and mass produced by the rich, but it was ACTUALLY BUILT by a poor person.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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He often says that poor people are worthless.
Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. I may not agree with Zap on many things but I've noticed he's usually right when debating you.
And the fact is when he makes his point you almost never address them. You just duck and cover and move on to the next thing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13901906 - 02/03/11 08:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: He often says that poor people are worthless.
Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. I may not agree with Zap on many things but I've noticed he's usually right when debating you.
And the fact is when he makes his point you almost never address them. You just duck and cover and move on to the next thing. 
What point has he made that I haven't addressed? Can you provide a specific example?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Sorry I'm not going back looking tonight but i'll tell you what I'll do for ya. I'll be pointing some out in the future. I'm sure they'll be plenty.
Oh and btw you just ignored some of my post questions to you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13901951 - 02/03/11 08:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Sorry I'm not going back looking tonight but i'll tell you what I'll do for ya. I'll be pointing some out in the future. I'm sure they'll be plenty.
Oh and btw you just ignored most of my post questions to you.
What post questions are those? I always try to answer your questions.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
These. You are asking me for examples but I see none here either. Can you back your statement that he thinks the poor are all worthless with an example in context?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13902063 - 02/03/11 09:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
These. You are asking me for examples but I see none here either. Can you back your statement that he thinks the poor are all worthless with an example in context?
He has stated that on here before that low paying grunt work is easy and anyone with average intelligence should be able to advance past it. I would have to dig back to find it, but I bet he wouldn't deny that he said it. He also said in this thread that he thinks anyone not contributing their fair share of federal taxes, meaning as much taxes as he pays, is a parasite. I think that people contribute what they are capable of contributing and there is a definite shortage of jobs worldwide for everyone to contribute what they would like.
He and others on here make many negative posts concerning the poor, whether it's welfare queens or the working poor. Yet these same people wouldn't have the luxury of sitting at their computers making posts to look down on the poor if it wren't for the poor doing the grunt work. Do you not see the irony in that?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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There is irony everywhere dearest. Still Zap has his point and many of the poor just won't or can't try. Myself I think sometimes it's not their fault and sometimes it is. Some are so emotionally dysfunctional from their upbringings that they aren't going to make it. In nature at large they would be prey and support the lives of the strong. It's true in culture too and if we try to hard to change that the human gene pool suffers. Still our attempts to educate the worst off are sometimes a joke and to expect the majority to pull themselves out of trouble is unlikely. But that's how nature works and the strong really don't give a shit about their lot. They just don't want to be responsible for them and I can hardly blame them. Life's full of irony and it's not pretty for the weak. Blame that nature you love so dearly if you need to place blame.
I don't think Zapp hates all the poor. At least I hope not. He hates what he perceives as weakness maybe because he drives himself hard.
For myself I'll try and strike a middle path. I see both sides of this. Do you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13902538 - 02/03/11 11:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There is irony everywhere dearest. Still Zap has his point and many of the poor just won't or can't try. Myself I think sometimes it's not their fault and sometimes it is. Some are so emotionally dysfunctional from their upbringings that they aren't going to make it. In nature at large they would be prey and support the lives of the strong. It's true in culture too and if we try to hard to change that the human gene pool suffers. Still our attempts to educate the worst off are sometimes a joke and to expect the majority to pull themselves out of trouble is unlikely. But that's how nature works and the strong really don't give a shit about their lot. They just don't want to be responsible for them and I can hardly blame them. Life's full of irony and it's not pretty for the weak. Blame that nature you love so dearly if you need to place blame.
I don't think Zapp hates all the poor. At least I hope not. He hates what he perceives as weakness maybe because he drives himself hard.
For myself I'll try and strike a middle path. I see both sides of this. Do you?
I was raised middle class, so I definitely know their side of it. I just don't feel any obligation at all to the rich. I don't feel like it is my problem what the rich pay in taxes. They can always write to their congresspeople or write Obama, or they can protest in Washington, D.C. if they they feel they have too heavy of a tax burden. The rich can even organize amongst themselves and decide not to pay taxes at all; they certainly have the resources to do so.

As far as weakness goes, I feel it is a weakness in itself to not be able to admit to any weakness. One of my weaknesses is that I can't stay up all night. Goodnight!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
As for my personal work history, I did it. I did it all. I dug holes and I tended masons and I humped shingles. I busted my ass, showed up every day, and learned learned learned. After I learned enough I went self employed, where I busted my ass even more, working with the crew by day and doing all the government mandated bullshit plus billing and sales after they all went home. Out of all the people I ever employed (several dozens) there was exactly 1 who had any real interest in learning the trade and making something of himself. The rest were clock punching slackers with no ambition, always looking for a day off and to get paid for doing as little as possible.
Your obligation to the rich should be no greater than the obligation of the rich to you. Unfortunately that is not the case in this tax structure, which affords you all kinds of benefits without requiring any contribution from you. Because the rich pay for just about everything. Nice for you, isn't it?
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13904024 - 02/04/11 09:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
As for my personal work history, I did it. I did it all. I dug holes and I tended masons and I humped shingles. I busted my ass, showed up every day, and learned learned learned. After I learned enough I went self employed, where I busted my ass even more, working with the crew by day and doing all the government mandated bullshit plus billing and sales after they all went home. Out of all the people I ever employed (several dozens) there was exactly 1 who had any real interest in learning the trade and making something of himself. The rest were clock punching slackers with no ambition, always looking for a day off and to get paid for doing as little as possible.
Your obligation to the rich should be no greater than the obligation of the rich to you. Unfortunately that is not the case in this tax structure, which affords you all kinds of benefits without requiring any contribution from you. Because the rich pay for just about everything. Nice for you, isn't it?
Good for you to have started a construction business. My husband did the same thing but he mostly works around the homestead now. I worked as a research scientist/lab technician for many years, and now I work as a lab manager in a community college and do some animal raising/gardening on the side. If you consider that to be "leeching" off the working people than so be it. I disagree. I am a "working person" and I don't ever see these rich people in my barn or garden, "helping me". I don't get your logic. You think it is "lazy" to cook from scratch nearly every day and do the dishes by hand, but it is not "lazy" to work more hours for a corporation and then buy take-out food from another corporation? I see neither way as lazy, but the former as healthier, so it is my choice.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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No, I don't think it is lazy for you to cook every day. What I think is that you get a free ride in this nation. What I also think from having read a great many of your posts that you want even more shit handed to you. Like free (to you) health care that I will have to pay for.
You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13904268 - 02/04/11 10:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
I agree it's a myth. It's all lifestyle choices. The danger imo is that on both sides of this debate there are those who would insist by force if necessary that there only be one choice.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13904651 - 02/04/11 11:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, I don't think it is lazy for you to cook every day. What I think is that you get a free ride in this nation. What I also think from having read a great many of your posts that you want even more shit handed to you. Like free (to you) health care that I will have to pay for.
You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I know I am not self sufficient, no one really is these days. But I think that I'm in a better position than people in the cities when the shit hits the fan.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
and nobody fits that billing better than the wall-street-fat-cats..oil companies..and military-prison-industrial contractors.. that you keep shilling (ie panhandling) for...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Annapurna1]
#13904709 - 02/04/11 11:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
and nobody fits that billing better than the wall-street-fat-cats..oil companies..and military-prison-industrial contractors.. that you keep shilling (ie panhandling) for...
Pardon me but those industries pay enormous amounts of taxes and that doesn't count the taxes their employees pay on their earnings and the owners pay on their capital gains. You know who fits the bill much better than any of them? You. Remember this. Not having your money confiscated is not the same thing as giving you money. If it was you should thank me for not stealing everything you own.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I think the rates are reasonable right now. As to college I have no idea what you're talking about. In place of....? What do you mean?Quote:
I know I am not self sufficient, no one really is these days. But I think that I'm in a better position than people in the cities when the shit hits the fan.
Are you one of those apocalypticos? Here's another reality dose for you. You will be as well and truly fucked as everybody else, whether you can grow your own shit and shoot a gun or not. It probably won't even buy you a week and that's only if the cityfolk can scavenge their cities. If they can't they'll be on top of you before you can do shit.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13905257 - 02/04/11 01:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I think the rates are reasonable right now. As to college I have no idea what you're talking about. In place of....? What do you mean?Quote:
I think that the first 2 years of college can be free if they take the place of the last 2 years of high school. People can go to high school for 2 years and graduate, or go to high school for 4 years and come out with an associate degree. The only required classes for the last year of my high school were government and P.E. What a waste!
Are you one of those apocalypticos? Here's another reality dose for you. You will be as well and truly fucked as everybody else, whether you can grow your own shit and shoot a gun or not. It probably won't even buy you a week and that's only if the cityfolk can scavenge their cities. If they can't they'll be on top of you before you can do shit.
Or my community can band together and take turns shooting them as they come in. You don't think we've already talked about it and started to make plans in case of an emergency?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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You can talk all you want. What are you gonna do when a million gangbangers, with millions of weapons, flee the cities? Not a fucking thing other than put your heads between your legs and kiss your asses goodbye.
I don't know whether to look at your plans as self abuse or self pleasuring.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, I don't think it is lazy for you to cook every day. What I think is that you get a free ride in this nation. What I also think
from having read a great many of your posts that you want even more shit handed to you. Like free (to you) health care that I will have to pay for.
You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I know I am not self sufficient, no one really is these days. But I think that I'm in a better position than people in the cities when the shit hits the fan.
If the shit hits the fan you, being stationary on a farm will be nothing more than a target.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Or my community can band together and take turns shooting them as they come in. You don't think we've already talked about it and started to make plans in case of an emergency?
That's downright silly. That's like me saying if the army tries to take over I've got my 22 mag to stop them with. Oh and if the shit hits the fan that army will have your food most likely.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13906540 - 02/04/11 05:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Or my community can band together and take turns shooting them as they come in. You don't think we've already talked about it and started to make plans in case of an emergency?
That's downright silly. That's like me saying if the army tries to take over I've got my 22 mag to stop them with. Oh and if the shit hits the fan that army will have your food most likely.
What about if we hide out in our secret underground bunker stocked with food, water, weapons, ammo, tools and medicine?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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You really don't think the military would find you easily? Just try and hide in the wilderness from modern surveillance and detection equipment.
And blowing you out of your bunker would be a snap and an ugly way to go.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 12 years, 6 days
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13906574 - 02/04/11 05:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Or my community can band together and take turns shooting them as they come in. You don't think we've already talked about it and started to make plans in case of an emergency?
That's downright silly. That's like me saying if the army tries to take over I've got my 22 mag to stop them with. Oh and if the shit hits the fan that army will have your food most likely.
All i know is that if shit gets bad enough I am going on an enormous drug binge with a pistol near by in case things get painful enough.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13906716 - 02/04/11 06:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
and nobody fits that billing better than the wall-street-fat-cats..oil companies..and military-prison-industrial contractors.. that you keep shilling (ie panhandling) for...
Pardon me but those industries pay enormous amounts of taxes and that doesn't count the taxes their employees pay on their earnings and the owners pay on their capital gains. You know who fits the bill much better than any of them? You. Remember this. Not having your money confiscated is not the same thing as giving you money. If it was you should thank me for not stealing everything you own.
i would almost bet the farm that for whatever taxes they pay.. they get more than double back in kickbacks...just because someone pays taxes doesnt mean that their not "panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people"...
--------------------
"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: 4896744]
#13906717 - 02/04/11 06:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Now that's a realistic plan. I've got something similar in mind. It involves a fiddle.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Annapurna1]
#13906736 - 02/04/11 06:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
and nobody fits that billing better than the wall-street-fat-cats..oil companies..and military-prison-industrial contractors.. that you keep shilling (ie panhandling) for...
Pardon me but those industries pay enormous amounts of taxes and that doesn't count the taxes their employees pay on their earnings and the owners pay on their capital gains. You know who fits the bill much better than any of them? You. Remember this. Not having your money confiscated is not the same thing as giving you money. If it was you should thank me for not stealing everything you own.
i would almost bet the farm that for whatever taxes they pay.. they get more than double back in kickbacks...just because someone pays taxes doesnt mean that their not "panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people"...
Kickbacks to the companies? That isn't the direction kickbacks go, honey. Companies PAY kickbacks. They don't collect them.
You don't have a farm to bet.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13906888 - 02/04/11 06:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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that just means that their paying kickbacks instead of taxes...
Edited by Annapurna1 (02/04/11 07:06 PM)
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13909309 - 02/05/11 09:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You really don't think the military would find you easily? Just try and hide in the wilderness from modern surveillance and detection equipment.
And blowing you out of your bunker would be a snap and an ugly way to go.
I wouldn't be hiding from the military, I would be hiding from the desparate, starving, city people. Why would the military want to come out to a rural area to look for a common peasant such as I? They would be busy doing riot control in the cities.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist




Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,660
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 7 hours, 48 minutes
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Yes, but what about the raptors?
What are you going to do about them, hmmm?
and zombies?
zombie raptors?
I don't think you've really thought this through.
-------------------- This space for rent
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Nemo_Hoes
Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobo Ramírez



Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 39,721
Loc: Ray Ray's Mystery Garage
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#13909944 - 02/05/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I worry about these things every fucking day. It's why I have so many guns.
-------------------- We will also report to the NAACP and to Al Sharpton's entourage, how the Shroomery administrators allows their mods and members to be balatantly allowed the use of the 'N' word.
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