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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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He often says that poor people are worthless.
Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. I may not agree with Zap on many things but I've noticed he's usually right when debating you.
And the fact is when he makes his point you almost never address them. You just duck and cover and move on to the next thing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13901906 - 02/03/11 08:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: He often says that poor people are worthless.
Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about. I may not agree with Zap on many things but I've noticed he's usually right when debating you.
And the fact is when he makes his point you almost never address them. You just duck and cover and move on to the next thing. 
What point has he made that I haven't addressed? Can you provide a specific example?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Sorry I'm not going back looking tonight but i'll tell you what I'll do for ya. I'll be pointing some out in the future. I'm sure they'll be plenty.
Oh and btw you just ignored some of my post questions to you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13901951 - 02/03/11 08:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Sorry I'm not going back looking tonight but i'll tell you what I'll do for ya. I'll be pointing some out in the future. I'm sure they'll be plenty.
Oh and btw you just ignored most of my post questions to you.
What post questions are those? I always try to answer your questions.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
These. You are asking me for examples but I see none here either. Can you back your statement that he thinks the poor are all worthless with an example in context?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13902063 - 02/03/11 09:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Does he? Or are you taking that out of context as you often like to do? Has he actually said that he considers that kind of work beneath him? Or is he just too busy to do it and it's cost efficient to have someone else do it?
These. You are asking me for examples but I see none here either. Can you back your statement that he thinks the poor are all worthless with an example in context?
He has stated that on here before that low paying grunt work is easy and anyone with average intelligence should be able to advance past it. I would have to dig back to find it, but I bet he wouldn't deny that he said it. He also said in this thread that he thinks anyone not contributing their fair share of federal taxes, meaning as much taxes as he pays, is a parasite. I think that people contribute what they are capable of contributing and there is a definite shortage of jobs worldwide for everyone to contribute what they would like.
He and others on here make many negative posts concerning the poor, whether it's welfare queens or the working poor. Yet these same people wouldn't have the luxury of sitting at their computers making posts to look down on the poor if it wren't for the poor doing the grunt work. Do you not see the irony in that?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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There is irony everywhere dearest. Still Zap has his point and many of the poor just won't or can't try. Myself I think sometimes it's not their fault and sometimes it is. Some are so emotionally dysfunctional from their upbringings that they aren't going to make it. In nature at large they would be prey and support the lives of the strong. It's true in culture too and if we try to hard to change that the human gene pool suffers. Still our attempts to educate the worst off are sometimes a joke and to expect the majority to pull themselves out of trouble is unlikely. But that's how nature works and the strong really don't give a shit about their lot. They just don't want to be responsible for them and I can hardly blame them. Life's full of irony and it's not pretty for the weak. Blame that nature you love so dearly if you need to place blame.
I don't think Zapp hates all the poor. At least I hope not. He hates what he perceives as weakness maybe because he drives himself hard.
For myself I'll try and strike a middle path. I see both sides of this. Do you?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Icelander]
#13902538 - 02/03/11 11:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: There is irony everywhere dearest. Still Zap has his point and many of the poor just won't or can't try. Myself I think sometimes it's not their fault and sometimes it is. Some are so emotionally dysfunctional from their upbringings that they aren't going to make it. In nature at large they would be prey and support the lives of the strong. It's true in culture too and if we try to hard to change that the human gene pool suffers. Still our attempts to educate the worst off are sometimes a joke and to expect the majority to pull themselves out of trouble is unlikely. But that's how nature works and the strong really don't give a shit about their lot. They just don't want to be responsible for them and I can hardly blame them. Life's full of irony and it's not pretty for the weak. Blame that nature you love so dearly if you need to place blame.
I don't think Zapp hates all the poor. At least I hope not. He hates what he perceives as weakness maybe because he drives himself hard.
For myself I'll try and strike a middle path. I see both sides of this. Do you?
I was raised middle class, so I definitely know their side of it. I just don't feel any obligation at all to the rich. I don't feel like it is my problem what the rich pay in taxes. They can always write to their congresspeople or write Obama, or they can protest in Washington, D.C. if they they feel they have too heavy of a tax burden. The rich can even organize amongst themselves and decide not to pay taxes at all; they certainly have the resources to do so.

As far as weakness goes, I feel it is a weakness in itself to not be able to admit to any weakness. One of my weaknesses is that I can't stay up all night. Goodnight!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
As for my personal work history, I did it. I did it all. I dug holes and I tended masons and I humped shingles. I busted my ass, showed up every day, and learned learned learned. After I learned enough I went self employed, where I busted my ass even more, working with the crew by day and doing all the government mandated bullshit plus billing and sales after they all went home. Out of all the people I ever employed (several dozens) there was exactly 1 who had any real interest in learning the trade and making something of himself. The rest were clock punching slackers with no ambition, always looking for a day off and to get paid for doing as little as possible.
Your obligation to the rich should be no greater than the obligation of the rich to you. Unfortunately that is not the case in this tax structure, which affords you all kinds of benefits without requiring any contribution from you. Because the rich pay for just about everything. Nice for you, isn't it?
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13904024 - 02/04/11 09:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
As for my personal work history, I did it. I did it all. I dug holes and I tended masons and I humped shingles. I busted my ass, showed up every day, and learned learned learned. After I learned enough I went self employed, where I busted my ass even more, working with the crew by day and doing all the government mandated bullshit plus billing and sales after they all went home. Out of all the people I ever employed (several dozens) there was exactly 1 who had any real interest in learning the trade and making something of himself. The rest were clock punching slackers with no ambition, always looking for a day off and to get paid for doing as little as possible.
Your obligation to the rich should be no greater than the obligation of the rich to you. Unfortunately that is not the case in this tax structure, which affords you all kinds of benefits without requiring any contribution from you. Because the rich pay for just about everything. Nice for you, isn't it?
Good for you to have started a construction business. My husband did the same thing but he mostly works around the homestead now. I worked as a research scientist/lab technician for many years, and now I work as a lab manager in a community college and do some animal raising/gardening on the side. If you consider that to be "leeching" off the working people than so be it. I disagree. I am a "working person" and I don't ever see these rich people in my barn or garden, "helping me". I don't get your logic. You think it is "lazy" to cook from scratch nearly every day and do the dishes by hand, but it is not "lazy" to work more hours for a corporation and then buy take-out food from another corporation? I see neither way as lazy, but the former as healthier, so it is my choice.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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No, I don't think it is lazy for you to cook every day. What I think is that you get a free ride in this nation. What I also think from having read a great many of your posts that you want even more shit handed to you. Like free (to you) health care that I will have to pay for.
You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13904268 - 02/04/11 10:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
I agree it's a myth. It's all lifestyle choices. The danger imo is that on both sides of this debate there are those who would insist by force if necessary that there only be one choice.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13904651 - 02/04/11 11:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, I don't think it is lazy for you to cook every day. What I think is that you get a free ride in this nation. What I also think from having read a great many of your posts that you want even more shit handed to you. Like free (to you) health care that I will have to pay for.
You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I know I am not self sufficient, no one really is these days. But I think that I'm in a better position than people in the cities when the shit hits the fan.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
and nobody fits that billing better than the wall-street-fat-cats..oil companies..and military-prison-industrial contractors.. that you keep shilling (ie panhandling) for...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Annapurna1]
#13904709 - 02/04/11 11:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Annapurna1 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I do not hate the poor. I hate the lazy. I hate panhandling system gamers who make a career out of leeching from working people.
and nobody fits that billing better than the wall-street-fat-cats..oil companies..and military-prison-industrial contractors.. that you keep shilling (ie panhandling) for...
Pardon me but those industries pay enormous amounts of taxes and that doesn't count the taxes their employees pay on their earnings and the owners pay on their capital gains. You know who fits the bill much better than any of them? You. Remember this. Not having your money confiscated is not the same thing as giving you money. If it was you should thank me for not stealing everything you own.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I think the rates are reasonable right now. As to college I have no idea what you're talking about. In place of....? What do you mean?Quote:
I know I am not self sufficient, no one really is these days. But I think that I'm in a better position than people in the cities when the shit hits the fan.
Are you one of those apocalypticos? Here's another reality dose for you. You will be as well and truly fucked as everybody else, whether you can grow your own shit and shoot a gun or not. It probably won't even buy you a week and that's only if the cityfolk can scavenge their cities. If they can't they'll be on top of you before you can do shit.
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HippieChick8
seeker of justice



Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
#13905257 - 02/04/11 01:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I think the rates are reasonable right now. As to college I have no idea what you're talking about. In place of....? What do you mean?Quote:
I think that the first 2 years of college can be free if they take the place of the last 2 years of high school. People can go to high school for 2 years and graduate, or go to high school for 4 years and come out with an associate degree. The only required classes for the last year of my high school were government and P.E. What a waste!
Are you one of those apocalypticos? Here's another reality dose for you. You will be as well and truly fucked as everybody else, whether you can grow your own shit and shoot a gun or not. It probably won't even buy you a week and that's only if the cityfolk can scavenge their cities. If they can't they'll be on top of you before you can do shit.
Or my community can band together and take turns shooting them as they come in. You don't think we've already talked about it and started to make plans in case of an emergency?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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You can talk all you want. What are you gonna do when a million gangbangers, with millions of weapons, flee the cities? Not a fucking thing other than put your heads between your legs and kiss your asses goodbye.
I don't know whether to look at your plans as self abuse or self pleasuring.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
HippieChick8 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, I don't think it is lazy for you to cook every day. What I think is that you get a free ride in this nation. What I also think
from having read a great many of your posts that you want even more shit handed to you. Like free (to you) health care that I will have to pay for.
You really ought to stop deluding yourself that you are self sufficient, by the way.
I would like to be able to buy health care at a reasonable rate if I needed it. I never said I wanted free health care, that was someone else. I might have said the 1st 2 years of a college education should occur in place of the last 2 years of high school, that would be doable.
I know I am not self sufficient, no one really is these days. But I think that I'm in a better position than people in the cities when the shit hits the fan.
If the shit hits the fan you, being stationary on a farm will be nothing more than a target.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Or my community can band together and take turns shooting them as they come in. You don't think we've already talked about it and started to make plans in case of an emergency?
That's downright silly. That's like me saying if the army tries to take over I've got my 22 mag to stop them with. Oh and if the shit hits the fan that army will have your food most likely.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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