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Offlinenanomagnetic
cascadian
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13871517 - 01/29/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I guess if you're talking purely dollars and cents it works that way. Seems misleading.


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Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #13871545 - 01/29/11 03:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.



ORLY?

What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites.  That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate).  If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13871646 - 01/29/11 03:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax.  The rest aren't paying their way.




but their raking in 99%+ of the income..and yet pay only 60% of the taxes...and that missing 39% far outweighs the combined wages of the lower 95%...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13871695 - 01/29/11 03:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax.  The rest aren't paying their way.




but their raking in 99%+ of the income..and yet pay only 60% of the taxes...and that missing 39% far outweighs the combined wages of the lower 95%...



No they aren't.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/who-pays-most-income-tax.htm

Quote:

# The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.

# The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.




Keep sticking your head out anna.  I :heart: pinatas.


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13871759 - 01/29/11 04:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You wouldn't happen to have numbers on the amount of GDP the lower quintiles produce or the amount of leeching everyone is doing on past accomplishments. Not to detract from your pragmatic approach.


--------------------
Being an ant is the worst mindfuck ever. They can never hold on to any memories, or come up with any real ideas, or even understand what the fuck is going on, ever.

The Century of the Self: Happiness Machines; The Engineering of Consent; There's a Policeman Inside All Our Heads, He Must be Destroyed; Eight People Sipping Wine in Kettering

Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people, citizens of distant epochs, who never knew one another. Books break the shackles of time. ~carl sagan

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: nanomagnetic] * 1
    #13871913 - 01/29/11 04:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Who cares, he's just trollin anyway. As if my employers don't save cash because I can get to work easily or have free healthcare if I get injured. When is he going to start calling the manufacturers who need paved roads and government financed inferstructure moochers?
:trollz:
Never, that's when.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinebroken
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13871944 - 01/29/11 04:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax.  The rest aren't paying their way.





i'd say it's corporations making BILLIONS of dollars that are not paying their fair share.


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:willynilly:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13871962 - 01/29/11 04:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Who cares, he's just trollin anyway. As if my employers don't save cash because I can get to work easily or have free healthcare if I get injured. When is he going to start calling the manufacturers who need paved roads and government financed inferstructure moochers?
:trollz:
Never, that's when.



The manufacturers paid for the fucking roads.  Who benefits more form the roads?  The manufacturers or the customers who get cheaper products or the employees who get paid more because transportation is subsidized?  Could you be simpler?

There is no such thing as free health care.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: broken]
    #13871973 - 01/29/11 04:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

closed veil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax.  The rest aren't paying their way.





i'd say it's corporations making BILLIONS of dollars that are not paying their fair share.



Why?  The owners pay taxes on the income they make.  Why are there two levels of taxation?  What do you pay?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #13871982 - 01/29/11 04:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

nanomagnetic said:
You wouldn't happen to have numbers on the amount of GDP the lower quintiles produce or the amount of leeching everyone is doing on past accomplishments. Not to detract from your pragmatic approach.



What do you mean by produce?  Produce what?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13871995 - 01/29/11 04:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Who cares, he's just trollin anyway.
:trollz:
Never, that's when.




By the way, the last person who should be calling me a troll in response to my posts is you, sweetheart.  You can't even see my posts and yet you have the nerve to comment?  Wooza troll?  Yooza troll.  Slag off.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13872683 - 01/29/11 06:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.



ORLY?

What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites.  That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate).  If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.





By your own reasoning, then, there is only one person in America who is not a parasite, and that is whomever paid the most taxes.

Why did you chose 5% as the cutoff point, anyway?


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This space for rent

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #13872734 - 01/29/11 07:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)


Some people here might like this program.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #13875709 - 01/30/11 09:56 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.



ORLY?

What I said is that 95% of the people are parasites.  That is a demonstrable fact (which I did, in fact, demonstrate).  If you don't like being called a parasite don't be one.





By your own reasoning, then, there is only one person in America who is not a parasite, and that is whomever paid the most taxes.




No.  Anybody who paid more in taxes than the total budget divided by the total number of people is not a parasite.  Anybody who paid less is to one extent or another parasitic.
Quote:



Why did you chose 5% as the cutoff point, anyway?




Because that was the point at which they paid more than half the taxes.  On further review of the statistics I cited the next 5% also pays more than their share, 10% roughly.  It's only 1/6th the contribution of the top 5% but still above water.  Then we have the next 15% who pay 15% of the taxes, essentially even for the total group but mostly borne by the top of it.  So, upon further analysis, I'm going to revise my point of parasitism down to somewhere around 15%.


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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13876865 - 01/30/11 02:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Who cares, he's just trollin anyway. As if my employers don't save cash because I can get to work easily or have free healthcare if I get injured. When is he going to start calling the manufacturers who need paved roads and government financed inferstructure moochers?
:trollz:
Never, that's when.



The manufacturers paid for the fucking roads.  Who benefits more form the roads?  The manufacturers or the customers who get cheaper products or the employees who get paid more because transportation is subsidized?  Could you be simpler?

There is no such thing as free health care.




Around my house the roads are not paved, nor is my driveway.  We have a volunteer fire department, of which my husband is a volunteer firefighter.  We don't have natural gas lines out here, which is fine because we don't need it.  We don't have sewer, but our septic tank works fine.  So you see, city boy, we don't have all the services that you have so why should we have to pay as many taxes as you? 

Oh and another good thing about living in the country is that there are rarely cops out here.  We call the cops as a last resort when there's a problem unlike some rich folks who call the cops over a smashed Halloween pumpkin. :tongue2:

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13876956 - 01/30/11 02:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
unlike some rich folks who call the cops over a smashed Halloween pumpkin. :tongue2:





At least someone was actually harmed in that situation, as minor as it is.  Round here by far the most frequent criminal cases involve speeding and other bullshit victimless offenses (which, btw, pay the same court costs to the city and the public defender fund as the offense of capital murder- you can see where their priorities lie with 'crime')


Quote:

zappaisgod said:

The manufacturers paid for the fucking roads.  Who benefits more form the roads?  The manufacturers or the customers who get cheaper products or the employees who get paid more because transportation is subsidized?  Could you be simpler?

There is no such thing as free health care.




The people who buy taxed gasoline pay for the roads hipiechick seems  like she might use, and those the manufacturers use to reach her (interstates and other federally funded highways), in large party.  The consumers pay for the expenses of the shipping and production of what they use.  Fine.

Someone throwing money into a whole doesn't create a moral obligation upon me to contribute by your apparently-arbitrary schedule of costs.  If you pay more than you cost, which I imagine is generally the case for working people without kids who aren't on any sort of public assistance or grant system, even those of very low means, then you certianly don't seem to be recieving any particular discount relative to the value of services recieved.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
    #13877710 - 01/30/11 04:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Gasoline taxes don't come near paying for roads and there is a whole lot else you get.  Sometimes without even knowing it.

To each of you, how much federal income tax did you pay last year?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13880667 - 01/31/11 07:58 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

None. Zip.

What does the amount of federal income tax have to do with anything anyways?  Seems a pretty arbitrary metric.  Either way, I paid the feds more tax than any other entity, I believe- including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.

Your claims seem like ad hoc assertions- I'd like to see an accounting for them and, more to the point, how a person driving on the roads is a leach if they've paid less than their per capita average income tax. 

(btw, capital gains are included in the income tax statistics I suppose, yes?)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
    #13880741 - 01/31/11 08:42 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.

I didn't realize the fed had any motor vehicle registration fees.  I thought that was all state regulated.

On a slightly different note, I wonder what would happen to the makeup of congress if federal elections weighted the ballots cast by the amount of funding the voter provides to the federal government.  In other words, somebody with a large tax burden would get a lot more votes than somebody that doesn't pay any taxes.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Seuss]
    #13880775 - 01/31/11 08:54 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> including all the nonsense fees and so forth that motor vehicle registration imposes.

I didn't realize the fed had any motor vehicle registration fees.  I thought that was all state regulated.





This was my point.  Despite having paid no federal income tax,  my federal taxes remained greater than that due to any other entity, even including state motor vehicle fees, licensing fees, et cet.

This seems highly suspect given the nature of my activities being confined to a small local area that provides typical government services.  So why do I still pay more to the feds?  I guess cause they can get away with it- same reason why the socialized healthcare proposals are all sought to be implemented federally rather than at the state level where it might actually be constitutional :foreheadslap: 

Through political and financial maneuverings, it seems the federal government is largely usurping and prohibiting the states their role as the laboratories of the nation in terms of public policy- a decidedly undemocratic and unwise move, I'd think.

Quote:

On a slightly different note, I wonder what would happen to the makeup of congress if federal elections weighted the ballots cast by the amount of funding the voter provides to the federal government.  In other words, somebody with a large tax burden would get a lot more votes than somebody that doesn't pay any taxes.





Interesting thoughts.  It would be interesting for sure, though I'd worry about corporatism/fascism resulting.  Would voting by limited to natural persons?

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