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Offlinejimbotron
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Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen
    #13868682 - 01/28/11 10:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Not only was she an illegal immigrant, but she signed up for Social Security and Medicare under the name "Ann O' Connor". :rofl2:

You can't make this shit up.

Not sure why, but I'm reminded of the end of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" when the bad guy reinflates himself.

"Holy shit, he's a Toon!"

Edited by jimbotron (01/28/11 10:38 PM)

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
    #13868705 - 01/28/11 10:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Do as I say, not as I do...


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
    #13868890 - 01/28/11 11:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, what's funny about that or otherwise noteworthy?

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron] * 2
    #13869031 - 01/28/11 11:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You can't make this shit up.




I'm pretty sure you can.

I'd like to see a better source before I go all believing it and shit.


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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #13869362 - 01/29/11 01:27 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Did you even click through to the source?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-ford/ayn-rand-and-the-vip-dipe_b_792184.html

Quote:

However, it was revealed in the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) that in the end Ayn was a vip-dipper as well. An interview with Evva Pryror, a social worker and consultant to Miss Rand's law firm of Ernst, Cane, Gitlin and Winick verified that on Miss Rand's behalf she secured Rand's Social Security and Medicare payments which Ayn received under the name of Ann O'Connor (husband Frank O'Connor).




If you can't trust the recent "Oral History of Ayn Rand" by Scott McConnell (founder of the media department at the Ayn Rand Institute) then I'm not sure what kind of source you would accept.

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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: johnm214]
    #13869398 - 01/29/11 01:39 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Ok, what's funny about that or otherwise noteworthy?




What's funny about it is that Ayn Rand's entire career, legacy, and cult following is based upon the notion that anyone who takes one fucking cent from the government is a contemptible parasite whom the world would be better off without, etc etc.

Turns out, as soon as she got cancer, she planted her lips firmly on the government tit. Maybe she didn't make any money while she was alive? I thought she got pretty rich before she died. (At least I'd hope so, otherwise she died a failure by her own standards.)

I don't know if I'd exactly characterize it as "funny" so much as "damning". It's like, I dunno, the leader of an evangelical organization getting caught smoking meth with a gay hooker.

Okay, bad example. But you get the idea. She didn't practice what she preached. Emperor has no clothes, etc. Most people view that as a bad thing.

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
    #13869612 - 01/29/11 03:38 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You are completely misinformed (not surprising). You should read what Rand wrote on taking government grants, social security, etc. It is NOT antithetical to her philosophy if you take these thing temporarily as a means to claim back what the government has already stolen from you all of your working life or (in the case of student grants, etc) what will in the future be taken from you when you work.

As long as you are not advocating for welfare programs and as long as you do not intend to stay on it long term, then there is no problem. Most of the times I have been out of work in my life IS directly a result of the government screwing the economy anyways. The fact is that welfare programs are sometimes the ONLY means that one can get the stolen loot back from the looters.

Heck, I have taken welfare between jobs, but the amount I got from that pales in comparison to what the government steal from me every year. In regard to getting medicare and medicaid, WHY THE HELL NOT? The government has ALREADY taken money out of my pocket and put it into these damn programs, forcing up the cost of healthcare and driving out competition! If other people who I don;t even know are going to benefit from that you are DAMN WELL sure that I am going to get my share out of it that I was made to pay the hell into. I never advocated for these damn programs to be there in the first place, they are NOT proper functions of government and I don't want them but I am FORCED to live with the reality that they exist!

So yeah, go get a clue. Read the articles and books that Rand wrote on her philosophy and how to apply it then come back and try again.

But of course, you won't do that because you have no interest in Ayn Rand or her philosophy other than in trying to find some holes in it or some discrepancy between her actions and her philosophy.

Do yourself a favor and quit wasting your time creating straw men and red herrings and actually do something productive with your life.

Edited by RationalEgo (01/29/11 08:06 AM)

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Offlinemacmikem
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: RationalEgo]
    #13869643 - 01/29/11 04:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I am very glad I read Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead and The Virtues of Selfishness, et al.  And a few times the first book.  I can say that I learned a lot from her thinking, and it doesn't matter to me what happened in the end with her .... her line of reasoning worked for me in life.

And I try not to evade reality.

Just saying ..... !


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: macmikem]
    #13869813 - 01/29/11 07:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Good to hear! :thumbup:

Oh and to the OP: As for her 'illegal immigration' status, who the hell cares if she was an 'illegal' immigrant in the period after her visa expired and before she got married. That means exactly NOTHING.


FYI that is not hypocritical at all! She was an advocate of Open Immigration policy and immigration laws in this country are a fucking joke!

Case....Fucking....Closed.


/thread

Edited by RationalEgo (01/29/11 07:50 AM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: jimbotron]
    #13869885 - 01/29/11 08:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
Not only was she an illegal immigrant, but she signed up for Social Security and Medicare under the name "Ann O' Connor". :rofl2:

You can't make this shit up.




social security isnt government assistance, it's money payed into a
retirement fund and medicare is paid into via the deductions from a
paycheck in addition to being repaid posthumously

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: RationalEgo]
    #13869886 - 01/29/11 08:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RationalEgo said:
immigration laws in this country are a fucking joke!





it's the enforcement that's a joke

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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13869892 - 01/29/11 08:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)





I'm with Yaron on this one. But I agree that the borders are not being properly controlled and protected.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: RationalEgo]
    #13870027 - 01/29/11 09:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread.  Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true.  If you marry a citizen then you are legal.

As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes?  A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits.  Not someone who does pay taxes.  I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.:facepalm:


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InvisibleRationalEgo
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13870078 - 01/29/11 09:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Good points. I had no idea about the 'illegal' immigrant stuff until jimbo spouted it. But I couldn't care less even if it were true.

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13870422 - 01/29/11 10:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread.  Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true.  If you marry a citizen then you are legal.

As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes?  A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits.  Not someone who does pay taxes.  I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.:facepalm:




You seem to be softening your position on people who receive government benefits.  You said ANYONE who receives ANY kind of government benefit, even UI, no matter how long they have worked and paid taxes, is a PARASITE.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13870964 - 01/29/11 12:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

No, just those who don't have a particular gross income. Apparently if the government throws some money down a hole that means I'm a parasite for driving on the roads if others have paid more into the money pit than I- regardless of whether I am costing the government any money at all or whether the taxes paid exceed the costs.  (generally he ignores everything but income tax for reasons that aren't particularly clear given his treatment of the rest of the monies as fungible contributions to some ill-defined whole that road-drivers have some burden to support).

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13871035 - 01/29/11 01:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread.  Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true.  If you marry a citizen then you are legal.

As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes?  A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits.  Not someone who does pay taxes.  I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.:facepalm:




You seem to be softening your position on people who receive government benefits.  You said ANYONE who receives ANY kind of government benefit, even UI, no matter how long they have worked and paid taxes, is a PARASITE.



No I didn't.  I said everybody who hasn't paid their share is a parasite.  And by share I mean direct portion regardless of income.  95% of people are parasites because they pay less than their share.  I suspect Ayn Rand more than paid her share over her lifetime.


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Offlinenanomagnetic
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13871456 - 01/29/11 03:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The only citation that jimbo offers for Rand being an illegal immigrant is his own post in another thread.  Further, I do not believe that describing her as an illegal immigrant is correct even if what he alleges is true.  If you marry a citizen then you are legal.

As to whether she took the benefits was she forced to pay for them with her taxes?  A welfare queen is someone who never pays taxes and receives benefits.  Not someone who does pay taxes.  I suppose you think she should never have driven over government roads.:facepalm:




You seem to be softening your position on people who receive government benefits.  You said ANYONE who receives ANY kind of government benefit, even UI, no matter how long they have worked and paid taxes, is a PARASITE.



No I didn't.  I said everybody who hasn't paid their share is a parasite.  And by share I mean direct portion regardless of income.  95% of people are parasites because they pay less than their share.  I suspect Ayn Rand more than paid her share over her lifetime.




I like to see some mathematics on that point.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: nanomagnetic]
    #13871479 - 01/29/11 03:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

The top 5% of the taxpayers pay almost 60% of federal income tax.  The rest aren't paying their way.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ayn Rand: Welfare Queen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13871501 - 01/29/11 03:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Those numbers are meaningless towards your argument, unless you are saying everyone should pay the same dollar amount in taxes regardless of income, which would just be stupid.


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