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obi
Du Bois



Registered: 07/19/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Europa
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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To live is to fly
Edited by Prisoner#1 (01/30/11 09:07 AM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Egypt [Re: Shins] 1
#13872172 - 01/29/11 05:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Mostly it's just you, Adolph, now that duckyousuckerz got banned for suggested Zyklon for my family. The Pallynuts have earned my disgust with their actions. There is nothing bigoted about it. Why do you hate women, by the way, as well as Jews?
I don't but you certainly believe saying it over and over will discredit what i say. A Jewish friend of mine is coming over for dinner today coincidentally.
Regardless, Zionism and western/international imperialism is undeniably one of the main geopolitical issues that just won't go away.
It is certainly a factor in the Egypt riots.
You can sat no no no no over and over, but not everyone is so blind to just take your word for it.
No it isn't. The only factor in the Egyptian riots is that Mubarek established himself as a dictator for life and their government is corrupt. Same thing in Tunisia. I can assure you that guy didn't set himself on fire because a Jew slapped him or tried to extort money.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Mubark receives billions in US/zionist aid presumably because he is friendly to their interests.
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Egypt [Re: obi]
#13872316 - 01/29/11 05:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey, can we have a toning down of name calling in this thread. I know zappaisgod basically gets into his most bigoted rhetoric when talking about Israel, but that's no reason to turn this into a mess of name-calling. You can just ignore him. 
What if someone here actually wanted to discuss the riots in Egypt? Also in all the coverage I haven't seen one person mention Israel as one of the reasons for the riots. Where are you guys getting this idea?
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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what coverage? see my above post...
I form these ideas by investigating myself, not taking "coverage's" word for it.
As "coverage" more often than not is a "cover" in a more literal sense.
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halo
Tripper



Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 1,169
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Egypt [Re: Shins]
#13872395 - 01/29/11 06:01 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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From what I've been able to gather the picture goes like this:
Due to wikileaks releases showing corruption in their government, as well as some other factors such as obvious government oppression, the Tunisian people decided to stage mass protests. They did, and their dictator like leader fled the country, they have revolted and ousted somebody who controlled their country for a long time. They rejoice, sort of for now.
The Egyptians, as well as others in the middle east and the world, saw this happen. They thought, hey, if the Tunisians can do this we can do this to. So they did. The only problem is that to try clamp down on the protests the government shut down the entire internet, including texting and cell phone calls. This really pissed people off. So even people who might not have been against the government now are, there are more protesters. It seems as if Egypt's government is stepping down. Woo Hoo. Let's hope this works. ALso there were wikileaks docs proving that Egypt's police routinely use violent torture in order to extract confessions from regular criminals and even political demonstrators.
What makes this so interesting (aside from the awesome reality of people challenging authority and WINNING, is that next to Israel, Egypt receives more aid from the US than any other country, most of it military. Because of this Egypt has allied itself with Israel more or less and does not try to aid the Palestinians. With this pro-US dictator gone, the entire paradigm of the mideast might change. If Israel loses Egypt as an ally there could be war, or perhaps a peaceful resolution. We'll see what happens.
What I'm secretly hoping for, is that more of these protests happen, all around the world. Perhaps this could be the year that humanity collectively rises up to the governments of the world and says, We can't take it anymore, we are free human beings and deserve to be treated with dignity. We don't need your oppression, your police, your violence, your wars, we can handle our own shit. We got technology, we got information, we don't need to mediators anymore. All for one and one for all. That sort of thing. Of course that's just wishful thinking, but hey you never know.
-------------------- All drugs should be legal
Edited by halo (01/29/11 06:29 PM)
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Egypt [Re: Shins]
#13872424 - 01/29/11 06:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Egypt [Re: halo]
#13872433 - 01/29/11 06:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Shins, though this is probibly true there is no reason that this would have to be the intentions behind the revolt. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt has tried to stay out of these events only issuing support after an overwhelming majority of it's youth members declared their intent on supporting and participating in this revolt. IT has also announced that it won't run a candidate in the elections to follow and won't try to be a party or part of the government (from the al jazeera feed).
Halo on the other hand appears to have made some clear-headed observations which are more consistent with what I've seen in the international media regarding the protests than anyone else here.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Well, even if it's not the exact trigger cause, it's still an underlying factor IMO.
how do YOU explain why they revolted?
IF Halo is right about Tunisia inspiring Egypt, There still has to be underlyting reasons why people decided to revolt.
They didn't do its solely because Tunisia did it, there were pre-existing pressures already... what were those in your opinion?
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: Hey, can we have a toning down of name calling in this thread.
I know zappaisgod basically gets into his most bigoted rhetoric when talking about Israel, but that's no reason to turn this into a mess of name-calling. ?
do you not see the irony in that post?
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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halo
Tripper



Registered: 11/01/07
Posts: 1,169
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Re: Egypt [Re: Shins]
#13872565 - 01/29/11 06:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think it is a combination of factors.
1. Mubarak has been in power for over 30 years. The US government supports him and gives lots of military money to Egypt.
2. 2/3rds (or some high number like that) of Egypt's population is young, under 30/35. A lot of those kids are unemployed, many more than here in the US, and they're probably pissed off. Also, many of them are well educated. Some having been educated at universities in the UK and USA. They're smart, they understand that there is a better way to live than the current way. And they have the knowledge to know how to act on that. Or at least the knowledge which gives them the courage to do so. Remember, Knowledge IS power.
3. Their government is oppressive. Their police beat the shit of basically anyone they catch, and they've admitted this.
4. The Tunisians did this, and the Egyptian people just want to be free. IMO there is no greater impetus for social action than the pure desire to be completely free. These people are so hungry for freedom, they all want to take that collective breath of fresh air. AND because the Tunisians were able to do it they believe in themselves, they believe they can do it.
5. Also, one must be reminded of the events that unfolded in Iran during their presidential elections of 2009. A lot of people protested, trying to overthrow or change their government. Many people in the middle east supported them and many were disappointed when their movement was crushed.
People, no matter where they are, no matter what their religion or beliefs, have a desire to be free. People have a desire to collectively shape their own destiny, to make their nation that which they desire. This is just the Egyptian people trying to do that, fulfilling that fundamental human urge and need.
6. This kind of goes with number 1, but not only does the US support Egypt and Israel, the Egyptian government publicly supports and cooperates with the Israeli regime. Most people around the world, and especially those in the Middle East believe Israel to be one of the most violent, terrorizing, and oppressive regimes in the entire world, especially with regard to how they treat the Palestinian people. The Egyptian people probably don't like that their government supports Israel. They don't want others to suffer because of their government's actions.
It's about justice. It's about dignity. It's about freedom. These are fundamental rights that all humans deserve. And people are finally waking up to that fact. Of course everybody believes they deserve those things, but for a while it was like, my people deserve those things, not those other people. Well...now that we're all so connected thanks to the internet people realize that people are people. People in other countries really aren't that different from "us". If I want to live a just, free, dignified life, then I should also want all people to live like that. It seems like most people agree with this. And finally, those in oppressive regimes are waking up to the fact that if they want to, they can make change, they can do work son. They can, we can, live in peace and without fear of governments or external authorities.
-------------------- All drugs should be legal
Edited by halo (01/29/11 06:40 PM)
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ScavengerType


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Egypt [Re: Shins]
#13872589 - 01/29/11 06:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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First off lonestar, I said his rhetoric was bigoted, that's not name-calling... to a person. Actually I tried to find a good synonym for it at the time but couldn't find one that adequately described it.
Shins (halo covered a lot of points so I'll keep this short), Most of the people participating in the revolt have cited issues like an oligarchical ruling class that has been using Mubarak to get them selves super rich while the rest of the country sees no increase in it's standard of living. Inequity was the #1 most cited reason for both countries to riot. The situation is not that Egypt copied Tunisia just for kicks, but that it lived in similar levels of corruption inequity and dictatorship as Tunisia and saw what happened there as a direct example of what could be done in their country.
-------------------- "Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?" "The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything." - Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now. Conquer's Club
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶



Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Re: Egypt [Re: halo]
#13873641 - 01/29/11 09:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
halo said: I think it is a combination of factors.
1. Mubarak has been in power for over 30 years. The US government supports him and gives lots of military money to Egypt.
2. 2/3rds (or some high number like that) of Egypt's population is young, under 30/35. A lot of those kids are unemployed, many more than here in the US, and they're probably pissed off. Also, many of them are well educated. Some having been educated at universities in the UK and USA. They're smart, they understand that there is a better way to live than the current way. And they have the knowledge to know how to act on that. Or at least the knowledge which gives them the courage to do so. Remember, Knowledge IS power.
3. Their government is oppressive. Their police beat the shit of basically anyone they catch, and they've admitted this.
4. The Tunisians did this, and the Egyptian people just want to be free. IMO there is no greater impetus for social action than the pure desire to be completely free. These people are so hungry for freedom, they all want to take that collective breath of fresh air. AND because the Tunisians were able to do it they believe in themselves, they believe they can do it.
5. Also, one must be reminded of the events that unfolded in Iran during their presidential elections of 2009. A lot of people protested, trying to overthrow or change their government. Many people in the middle east supported them and many were disappointed when their movement was crushed.
People, no matter where they are, no matter what their religion or beliefs, have a desire to be free. People have a desire to collectively shape their own destiny, to make their nation that which they desire. This is just the Egyptian people trying to do that, fulfilling that fundamental human urge and need.
6. This kind of goes with number 1, but not only does the US support Egypt and Israel, the Egyptian government publicly supports and cooperates with the Israeli regime. Most people around the world, and especially those in the Middle East believe Israel to be one of the most violent, terrorizing, and oppressive regimes in the entire world, especially with regard to how they treat the Palestinian people. The Egyptian people probably don't like that their government supports Israel. They don't want others to suffer because of their government's actions.
It's about justice. It's about dignity. It's about freedom. These are fundamental rights that all humans deserve. And people are finally waking up to that fact. Of course everybody believes they deserve those things, but for a while it was like, my people deserve those things, not those other people. Well...now that we're all so connected thanks to the internet people realize that people are people. People in other countries really aren't that different from "us". If I want to live a just, free, dignified life, then I should also want all people to live like that. It seems like most people agree with this. And finally, those in oppressive regimes are waking up to the fact that if they want to, they can make change, they can do work son. They can, we can, live in peace and without fear of governments or external authorities.
-------------------- +1 Post ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
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despisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc:
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Re: Egypt [Re: gzuf]
#13875018 - 01/30/11 03:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seems more like a populist pro-democracy uprising. I've seen more secular than religious comments from the people on the street from videos. Of course you have the one guy in this thread shouting "colonialist apartheid Zionist regime". Iran and their support of this "regime occupying Palestine" never had any pro-democracy protests? You will completely ignore that in your equation whilst you tout the usual suspect, Zionist IsraelLOLOLOLOLOLOL.
The choice is yours Egypt. Replace American backed dictatorship with theocratic dictatorship like Iran, LOL
With the power shift you will realize they both have the same face.
Or self determine with democracy. The choice is theirs.
Edited by despisedicon (01/30/11 05:03 AM)
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despisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc:
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So, why is it in the news that Abbas has phoned Mubarak to express support and banned Palis from expressing their support for Egypt in the streets? Any of you care to touch on that little facet in the news?
Why have they kicked out the Zionist Al Jazzerera Media Arm of the Jews (laugh out loud) out of the country?
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despisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 8,361
Loc:
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Egypt deserves something better. Islamic organizations if elected won't honor their pledges and lead Egypt to ruin and you know they would be worse than Mubarak. If that's what they want, fine. We all agree that democracy doesn't go to well in the Middle East.
Until then, we don't know. If Egypt goes the Muslim Brotherhood route and rips up treaty, Israel is taking back the Sinai. Creating more bloodshed.
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Stein
Stranger


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 35,129
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Wow and here I thought that whole thing over there started because of a Rodney King type incident.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,289
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 9 days, 4 hours
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Re: Egypt [Re: Stein]
#13875630 - 01/30/11 09:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Viva Le Revolution.
Honestly, I support the protesters in their fight against dictatorship.
I am not naive and am quite cognizant of the fact that any elected government that comes to power as a result of these events is likely to be less sympathetic to US concerns than is the current one, but I feel very strongly that everyone should have a right to self-determination.
This region of the world has enough dictators. One less could hardly hurt.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Egypt [Re: Shins]
#13875633 - 01/30/11 09:26 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: Mubark receives billions in US/zionist aid presumably because he is friendly to their interests.

Afactual as usual.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
ScavengerType said: First off lonestar, I said his rhetoric was bigoted, that's not name-calling... to a person. Actually I tried to find a good synonym for it at the time but couldn't find one that adequately described it.
How the fuck do you know what my rhetoric is? You don't even see my posts, brave culture warrior. And you might want to look up the meaning of the word bigot. It doesn't mean somebody who has observed that one group of people are disproportionately murderous lunatics who kill apostates, suppress all dissent, enslave women and punish rape victims, homosexuals and adulterers, among others.
Frankly I think anybody who supports the Islamofascists in any way is vile.Quote:
Shins (halo covered a lot of points so I'll keep this short), Most of the people participating in the revolt have cited issues like an oligarchical ruling class that has been using Mubarak to get them selves super rich while the rest of the country sees no increase in it's standard of living. Inequity was the #1 most cited reason for both countries to riot. The situation is not that Egypt copied Tunisia just for kicks, but that it lived in similar levels of corruption inequity and dictatorship as Tunisia and saw what happened there as a direct example of what could be done in their country.
Yes. That is it. A thugocracy. Soon to be replaced by another thugocracy. That is my prediction. See Iran.
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