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OfflineApostle
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13927164 - 02/08/11 12:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Hologram said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Are you seriously trying to argue that US debt and Fed policy of buying bonds is causing food prices to rise in remote shitholes to such an extent that it is causing riots? 

Please don't turn into Al.



IF not that then the shittons of grain that we feed our live stock.  a a shit ton(1/3 i believe tho it may be more) of the world grains feed animals instead of ppl just so countries like ours can enjoy meat now n then.



Our consumption of meat has not significantly changed so why do you think it has anything to do with increasing food prices.

.




well its not just us its MEAT in general

and countries that are devolping. Developed countries (like ours) consume most of the worlds meat and that means that for the few rising economies demands to be met resources will once again be diverted from the poor. Not to mention our ethanol experimenting which uses up farmland n crops that could be used to feed people.

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OfflineApostle
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: Apostle]
    #13927209 - 02/08/11 12:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/30/food.china1


plus we are steadily consuming more due to population increase and are consuming CHIKEN considerably MORE each year than other meats.


but like i said demand for meat is really the cause

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13927241 - 02/08/11 12:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
.  Do you know why they don't include energy and food in inflation measures?  Because there is too much short term volatility in those markets.




:yesnod:





so whats up with that small up tick?

is that the obama recovery and deflation is over?

or is that the beginning of something more ominous?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13927309 - 02/08/11 01:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
You can't hold food futures for years buddy, in a short time food futures turn into food ATM and then you've only bought yourself a little extra time. Besides if people are buying food futures it is because they expect the price of food to rise and then they can sell them when they turn into food (speculation) not cause QE scares their pants off.




That is incorrect. It depends upon the expiration date of your contract. If it for years out then one can hold it for years. Otherwise they can rotate out when the time is right. And they do not have to wait for the contract to expire - they can sell at any time they choose.

If QE results in inflation then yes, people will turn to commodities in general. Not just precious metals. No reason not to. The precious metals market is only so big compared to others. When you see monetary inflation you will see most commodities rise in general. That was happening right before the economic crash in 2008 with oil, food and precious metals.

Also consider that markets are anticipatory mechanisms. That is what futures contracts are all about after all! So not only actual inflation from QE but anticipated inflation will cause commodities prices to rise. And that is what is happening right now. I don't personally know one wealthy investor who isn't moving his money into hard assets right now in anticipation of inflation.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (02/08/11 01:20 PM)

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: zorbman]
    #13927502 - 02/08/11 01:52 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Lonestar:
Yea but at high interest rates after massive inflation just having the liquidity is going to be a problem.

IMO though QE is just one of a myriad of problems that will cause a US dollar collapse and when it comes it won't just affect bonds. The USD would probibly be victim to severe currency devaluation and possible subsequent price fluctuation, for me that's too much risk to invest in US bonds. Way better off to hit up a stronger economy who's taken a hit in the fallout and needs some long term liquidity in a stronger currency.

Also what's with that graph? Don't it seem to show normal growth in food prices atm?
---------------------
Zorbman:
Maybe I don't know as much about futures as I had presumed. However, the fact remains that there hasn't been significant alignment with other commodities and QE. The increase in grain prices is much more the property of shortages and speculation than of QE, further most of this speculation is based on these shortage factors than QE. Further it seems like your argument is that QE is causing speculation, do I understand this correctly?

Also I dissagree with your analysis that food, metals and oil prices spiked in 08 because of speculation. Oil prices for one spiked in 07 not 08 where they began receding. Particularly after a decline in US demand. The food shortage in 08 was a supply shortage that culminated from a lot of factors including speculation, a shortage and bio-fuels in the North American market. Also metals spiked with US demand and the recession in a similar way that oil did, and bounced back for a myriad of other reasons. However some precious metals like gold and such actually only began serious inclines at this time when metals like copper were dropping.

This is not a price change that is indicative of fears of QE but of market fluctuation related to supply and demand.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

Edited by ScavengerType (02/08/11 02:09 PM)

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13927672 - 02/08/11 02:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

There are a couple of grains whose price has surged largely because of shortages due to unfavorable weather but other commodities have no supply imbalance to account for their rise.

Believe what you want, smart money always moves into commodities on inflation fears. Always has, always will.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: zorbman]
    #13927689 - 02/08/11 02:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
There are a couple of grains whose price has surged largely because of shortages due to unfavorable weather but other commodities have no supply imbalance to account for their rise.






Wouldn't a shortage of one grain increase demand on the others?:facepalm:


--------------------

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: zorbman]
    #13927931 - 02/08/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes but one grain is basically replaceable for another in most uses (excluding some commercial uses). So obviously they increase in price rather uniformly. For example Russia will import rice, corn or fonio if need be to make up for it's lack of Rye, barley and oats.

If the problem is QE why has the increase in food prices so disproportionate to other commodities?


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineRealRollForever
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13928799 - 02/08/11 05:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Money is worth the papers its printed on, right?


--------------------

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: RealRollForever]
    #13932620 - 02/09/11 09:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Mr.FED (Bernanke) just said:



"In addition, inflation is expected to persist below the levels that Federal Reserve policymakers have judged to be consistent over the longer term with our statutory mandate to foster maximum employment and price stability."


I :heart: FED


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisibleShins
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: lonestar2004]
    #13934392 - 02/09/11 03:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

EVERYTHING the Fed says is a lie.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: Shins]
    #13934568 - 02/09/11 03:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Pretty much, the last douche who left as fed chairperson had to renounce basically their entire view of economic policy. Meet the new boss same as the old.

That said, I wanted to re-iterate that the whole connection of the QE to the riots in this thread is both false and extremely forced. Not only is there no proven link between the QE and the food prices the link between the riots and the food prices is marginal at best.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleShins
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13934691 - 02/09/11 04:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Well, i think at the least, the "money printing" is causing people to turn to more commodities for investing and speculating, so i believe it has at least a partial effect.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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OfflineApostle
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: Shins]
    #13934706 - 02/09/11 04:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I like how not everyone on here is blindly believing the bullshit they are fed

:thumbup:

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: Shins]
    #13934873 - 02/09/11 04:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

QE is a partial effect on food prices by prompting a surge in commodities, and the food prices are a small component of the riots going on in Tunisia and Egypt. So if you whip out your microscope and look closely you can see a link between QE and the riots. However this is a far cry from the post topic and the article cited in the OP claims that it is the major factor.

I also think that uncertain economic futures in economic leaders like the EU and US are causing people to look to commodities more than QE.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleShins
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13934944 - 02/09/11 04:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

well, in the case of egypt, what about all of the billions borrowed on loan due to the federal reserve system that the US gives to that tyrant regime?


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: Shins]
    #13935009 - 02/09/11 05:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Off the printer and down the drain. However, there probibly wouldn't be any riots now if it weren't for that aid since the regime probibly would have been ousted years ago.

Still these are not the claims of the OP article or post topic, nor are they necessarily related to QE. How often do you hear people in the US government claim that they want to cut military spending and military aid to balance the budget? It's often the other way around, everything else gets a look at taking a cut while military spending and aid largely gets a pass (and this is Israel/trade-canal related aid so it gets a minimum tipple pass).


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinenice1
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: Shins]
    #13935132 - 02/09/11 05:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
EVERYTHING the Fed says is a lie.




On their website they have a really snidey FAQ with the question "who owns the fed" and it says no-one owns it blah blah what a load of misdirecting shit.  if no-one owned it then it wouldn't be there.  The US gov would create currency itself and they would not create it at a debt to benefit shareholders.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#5

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: nice1]
    #13935190 - 02/09/11 05:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

What are the Federal Reserve's responsibilities?

Today, the Federal Reserve's responsibilities fall into four general areas:

    * conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing money and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of full employment and stable prices
    * supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation's banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
    * maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
    * providing certain financial services to the U.S. government, to the public, to financial institutions, and to foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation's payments systems





Fail x4


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Offlinenice1
Not the droid your looking for
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Re: The Feds Money Printing is causing Riots all over the World! [Re: ScavengerType]
    #13935235 - 02/09/11 05:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah its a fucking joke - the spin and brainwashing attempt is ridiculous

"protect" "safety" "stable"

No its greed, manipulation and control.

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