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 Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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 Re: Countdown to Extinction...  [Re: Xlea321]
#1397842 - 03/21/03 07:48 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ofcourse you did alex, ofcourse you did. 
have a link?
either way we'll find out when it's all over.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Innvertigo]
#1397858 - 03/21/03 07:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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No - an interview on the news.
You got any evidence they were scuds? Certainly no military expert will tell you they are because they havn't been examined yet.
Sounds like the truth hurts.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Xlea321]
#1397938 - 03/21/03 08:28 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
No - an interview on the news.
The news? I thought you said it was nothing but media propaganda?
Quote:
Sounds like the truth hurts.
no, it's rather refreshing..i should know.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Xlea321]
#1398035 - 03/21/03 09:05 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sounds like the truth hurts.
It's a pain you'll never know.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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 Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Xlea321]
#1398390 - 03/21/03 11:51 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I already posted this in another thread, but...
The very first reports said that they THOUGHT the missiles were SCUDS. A few hours later, those reports had been corrected to say that they are now almost certain that they were not SCUDS, but Al Samouds.
Obviously, a complete forensic analysis will have to wait a while, but I personally think it's unlikely they were SCUDS.
This is the problem with on-the-spot, instantaneous reporting from an area affected by the infamous "fog of war". In the rush to get out information as rapidly as possible, it is inevitable that some initial inaccuracies will arise -- another example was the initial report from English sources saying there were 30 oil wells on fire, which was again very rapidly revised to say there are only 7 burning, of which two have already been extinguished.
It is not always wise to accept at face value the very first preliminary report of any incident. What I find reassuring is that they ARE being corrected when found to be erroneous, and very rapidly at that.
pinky
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Phred]
#1399216 - 03/21/03 06:17 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is not always wise to accept at face value the very first preliminary report of any incident. What I find reassuring is that they ARE being corrected when found to be erroneous, and very rapidly at that.
Unfortunately, as inny has proved, the lie is halfway around the world before the truth has it's boots on. Getting the lie out there first is the important thing.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: GazzBut]
#1399362 - 03/21/03 08:25 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
If the mission of the US is to stay consisten they cannot stop with Iraq, they have to attack all countries who are potential threats. Otherwise it prooves beyond doubt they were only after the oil.
BS, that will prove nothing.
A US legal precedent set when US intervened to stop Israel appropriating the oil resources of Egypt?s Sinai desert, means that an occupying power has no rights to reallocate contracts.
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Be all and you'll be to end all
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: mntlfngrs]
#1399369 - 03/21/03 08:36 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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What Im saying is that if the reason behind this war is the protection of the American people there are plenty of other nations out there who A)Possess WMD B) Have terrible Human Rights records C) Have terrorist within their borders D) Have portions of their people who hate the USA.
"Freeing" Iraq will not make the US safe. So whos next? Iran, Lybia, Saudi, Syria?
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: mntlfngrs]
#1399373 - 03/21/03 08:39 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
A US legal precedent set when US intervened to stop Israel appropriating the oil resources of Egypt?s Sinai desert, means that an occupying power has no rights to reallocate contracts.
The important thing is what currency the Iraqi oil is traded in. If the currency is $$ then the US will be very happy bunnies. We will have to wait and see what currency is used wont we?
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: GazzBut]
#1399938 - 03/22/03 06:07 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also the money raised from the sale of Iraqi oil is going to the reconstruction of Iraq. Guess which country most of the companies doing the rebuilding will come from...
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Always Smi2le
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: GazzBut]
#1400308 - 03/22/03 09:07 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Guess which country most of the companies doing the rebuilding will come from.
The countries doing the liberating? It's funny how France wants a say so in this deal. I say only the countries that had the balls enough to stand up to their convictions should have the say so, NOT France, NOT Russia, NOT China or any other country NOT involved.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Innvertigo]
#1401330 - 03/22/03 05:40 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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I agree.
Besides it is only the major contractors that are US companies. Much of that work will be sub-contracted and that will be open to all bidders.
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Be all and you'll be to end all
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: GazzBut]
#1401365 - 03/22/03 05:56 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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Oh god... he did not cite JOHN NEGROPONTE.
How fucking stupid are you?
You are citing people that were convicted of lying during the Iran Contra scandal?
How am I not surprised this is the argument of someone pro war. Do you people (Im not even grouping myself into the american category just because of demographics) have absolutely no memory?
www.newamericancentury.com -- wanna cite Rummy and Wolfowitz now?
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Innvertigo]
#1401508 - 03/22/03 07:04 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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Oh, Truth and proof is what you are after. Here's some proof for your azz:
9. Secretary of State Powell's presentation at the UN was full of evasions and misrepresentations of history and fact. Powell offered proof that Saddam has lied (hardly surprising behavior from a dictator) and violated several UN Security Council resolutions, but offered no reason why internationally coordinated containment of Iraq should be abandoned and an invasion should be launched. "The thin tissue of 'new' information about the failure of Iraqi officials to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors merely made the case for providing more support for the inspection process. Much of the information that Powell provided is subject to interpretations that might differ from those the secretary of state offered. But if Powell's read is correct, then all of his evidence points to the conclusion that the weapons inspectors are looking in the right places and that they are having a very serious impact on the ground in Iraq. This conclusion, in turn, argues for stepping up inspections, rather than abandoning the process and moving toward a war footing." ("Powell Failed to Make Case for War", Madison
Capital Times editorial, February 9, 2003)
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=wsj:2003:02:09:198761:OPINION
10. Lots of other nations have also violated UN Security Council resolutions -- should we invade Turkey, Israel, Morocco, and Indonesia? The US itself obstructed enactment of UN Security Council resolution 487, which required Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency.
11. Most of the accusations reported by Powell were from anonymous and unverifiable sources. "What Powell served up to the Council was a sorry mess of fuzzy aerial photographs of buildings, a cute 'organizational chart' of supposed al-Qaeda operations in Iraq, a couple of tape recordings that are capable of multiple interpretations and, as before, a large number of undated reports by unnamed Iraqi defectors." ("Responding to Colin Powell", by Rahul Mahajan,CommonDreams.org,
February 7, 2003)
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0207-03.htm
12. The credibility of Powell's presentation has been undermined by reports, initially from Britain's Channel 4 News, that his British intelligence documentation (a dossier prepared by the British Government entitled, "Iraq -- Its Infrastructure of Concealment, Deception and Intimidation") had been plagiarized from an article written in September, 2002 by a graduate student from California named Ibrahim al-Marashi and published in the Middle East Review of International Affairs, a small periodical. Some of the original language had been altered to suggest that Iraq has been spying on foreign embassies and assisting terrorist groups. "They even left in my mistakes," said al-Marashi. The dossier also uses material from articles by Sean Boyne and Ken Gause that appeared in Jane's Intelligence Review in 1997 and November, 2002. 11 of the dossier's 19 pages were plagiarized: none of the sources were acknowledged, and all were publicly available. The dossier thus reveals little useful or new information, and uses some information that's 12 years old.
13. "[C]hief UN weapons inspector Hans Blix has rejected many of Powell's claims. For example, the respected Swedish diplomat has insisted that there is no evidence of mobile biological weapons laboratories, of Iraq trying to foil inspectors by moving equipment before his teams arrived, or that his organization has been infiltrated by Iraqi spies." ("Mr. Powell, You're No Adlai Stevenson" by Stephen Zunes, CommonDreams.org, February 6, 2003)
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0206-07.htm
14. "[A] picture of a pilotless Iraqi aircraft capable of spraying poison chemicals turned out to be the imaginative work of a Pentagon artist.... The worst moment came when General Powell started talking about anthrax and the 2001 anthrax attacks in Washington and New York, pathetically holding up a teaspoon of the imaginary spores and -- while not precisely saying so -- fraudulently suggesting a connection between Saddam Hussein and the 2001 anthrax scare." ("You Wanted to Believe Him - But It Was Like Something Out of Beckett", by Robert Fisk,
The Independent, February 6, 2003) http://www.counterpunch.com/fisk02062003.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0206-04.htm
15. "Powell's claims that Iraq could spray anthrax from one its F-1 Mirage jet fighters could sound alarming until one realizes that no Iraqi military aircraft could even get as far as the border without being shot down by US planes or the sophisticated anti-aircraft systems of neighboring states." (Zunes, same article)
16. "[Saddam's] evasiveness alone does not meet the [UN] resolution's definition of material breach.... [E]ven if Saddam Hussein is not completely disarmed, he is functionally disarmed. The use of military force under Chapter VII of the United Nations Charter is based upon the need to maintain world peace and security, not to enforce largely technical violations." (Zunes, same article)
17. "General Powell said America was sharing its information with the UN inspectors but it was clear yesterday that much of what he had to say about alleged new weapons development -- the decontamination truck at the Taji chemical munitions factory, for example, the cleaning' of the Ibn al-Haythem ballistic missile factory on 25 November -- had not been given to the UN at the time. Why wasn't this intelligence information given to the inspectors months ago? Didn't General Powell's beloved UN resolution 1441 demand that all such intelligence information should be given to Hans Blix and his lads immediately?" (Fisk, same article)
18. Neither Bush nor Powell has shown credible proof of a connection between Saddam and al-Qaeda. According to The New York Times, the CIA and FBI deny that any such clear evidence exists (February 2, 2003). Saddam and Osama bin Laden have long been hostile to each other. Bin Laden has called Saddam "an apostate, an infidel, and a traitor to Islam." Al-Qaeda leaders have also been known to be present in allied states like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Pakistan, and have been in contact with officials in those nations. "A number of European officials and US terrorism experts... said that Powell's description of the Iraq-Zarqawi-al-Qaeda nexus appeared to have been carefully drawn to imply more than it actually said. 'You're left to just hear the nouns, and put them together,' said Judith S. Yaphe, a senior fellow at the National Defense University who worked for 20 years as a CIA analyst. 'It doesn't take me yet to the point where I can say I've seen evidence which convinces me that Saddam Hussein supports al-Qaeda.'" (The Washington Post, February 6, 2003)
19. "A senior administration official with knowledge of the intelligence information said that evidence had not yet established that Baghdad had any operational control over Zarqawi's network, or over any transfer of funds or materiel to it." (The Washington Post, February 6, 2003) The information about Zarqawi allegedly comes from suspects who confessed under torture in Jordan -- hardly a reliable source.
20. Powell's assertion of "decades long experience with respect to ties between Iraq and Al Qaida" and statement that "Terrorism has been a tool used by Saddam for decades" obfuscate the fact that before August, 1990, Saddam was considered a friend to the US and received American weapons. Al-Qaeda has existed for less than ten years. There were no Iraqis among the September 11 hijackers; no money or phone calls connected with the hijackers have been traced to Iraq. None of al-Qaeda's leaders are Iraqi.
21. Powell noted that the Ansar al-Islam, a 600-member cadre of armed Islamists linked with al-Qaeda, holds territory in Iraq. But Ansar al-Islam is located in an autonomous Kurdish zone in northern Iraq, protected by the US and outside of Saddam's authority. Why didn't the US already attack these camps there as part of the War on Terrorism after September 11, 2001? The only persuasive reason is that the US preserved Ansar al-Islam for leverage against Iraq and an excuse
for a later war. Powell offered no proof that Baghdad has had any control over or involvement with Ansar al-Islam, or over any transfer of funds or weapons to the camp. Ansar al-Islam's stated mission is to overthrow Saddam's secular Baathist government and replace it with a Muslim theocracy, not to make friends with Saddam.
22. "When [Powell] warn[s] that the UN Security Council 'places itself in danger of irrelevance' if it fails to endorse a US-led war on Iraq, [isn't he] really proclaiming that the United Nations is 'relevant' only to the extent that it does what the US government wants?" ("Colin Powell Is Flawless -- Inside a Media Bubble", by Norman Solomon, Media Beat [FAIR], February 6, 2003) http://www.fair.org
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0206-08.htm
23. Fabricated information has been used to persuade Americans of phony threats in the past. Three examples: the Gulf of Tonkin incident, in
which the Johnson Administration fabricated a report of an attack on U.S. vessels in order to expand the Vietnam War in 1964; falsified aerial photographs of Iraqi forces preparing to invade Saudi Arabia in 1990; and concocted reports Iraqi soldiers were dumping Kuwaiti babies out of hospital incubators.
Also, maybe you should check out article 6 of the United States constitution.
Wanna look at some of today's facts?
North Korea fingers the trigger switch
Oops-- Iran Oil Ministry = kosovo chinese embassy?
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Edited by PsiloKitten (03/22/03 08:07 PM)
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1401605 - 03/22/03 07:54 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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I am anti war - I was quoting Negroponte as an example of US Hypocrisy - Try reading the posts before you reply!
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Always Smi2le
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1401611 - 03/22/03 07:57 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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Great post.
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Always Smi2le
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: GazzBut]
#1401622 - 03/22/03 08:07 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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Sorry, the quotes were getting confusing.. I thought you were quoting something that he was quoting.
That was not directed at you. My apologies.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1402250 - 03/23/03 04:59 AM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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You used the common dreams web site as a reliable source? ha ha...anywho i'll just assume you don't know any better since mose media is biased towards the left or right.
With that said, what does any of this have to do with the wording of 1441?
Editorial news reports do not make a strong case.
I recomend you go back and read resolution 1441 and refrain from the OPINIONS of news writers from a site that is so blatantly biased. Read the resolution and we'll discuss it.
BTW nice paying attention to who is Pro-Saddam and Pro-Freedom.
Quote:
Also, maybe you should check out article 6 of the United States constitution.
Article VI
All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.
What part of this concerns 1441? Remember just because you make long posts doesn't mean you made any points. Please try to make a few points and ask questions.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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PsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess
Registered: 02/12/99
Posts: 1,617
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: Innvertigo]
#1402834 - 03/23/03 08:52 AM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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Those media sources are just as credible as any bullshit the government puts out.
You should really start reading because there were many points made regarding the legality of this war and the feelings of the UN and the world... Also fuckface, stop posting parts of shit...
Look at the whole fucking thing and get some brains so you can filter and fiber it.
Again I say to you, if you believe in this shit so much, get off your ass and go die for it.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: Countdown to Extinction... [Re: PsiloKitten]
#1403549 - 03/23/03 01:36 PM (21 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
You should really start reading because there were many points made regarding the legality of this war
you have yet to make them, points that is. I have read 1441, have you? in your own words (i know it's a stretch) what are these laws that America is breaking?
Quote:
Look at the whole fucking thing and get some brains so you can filter and fiber it.
ha...ok, read 1441 and get back to me Einstein.
Quote:
Again I say to you, if you believe in this shit so much, get off your ass and go die for it.
i went to the first one and put my time in, sorry i have a career now. BTW isn't that the same thing as saying if you don't like America then you should leave?
either way you're lacking in persuasive skills. feel free to entertain me if you want. 
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
Edited by Innvertigo (03/23/03 10:56 PM)
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