Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
Insults
    #13835207 - 01/23/11 01:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

the question i would like to discuss here is why people get insulted.

suppose someone was fat
and i said 'you are fat'
i would just be making a statement which is true and which the person knows themselves.

or if they werent fat then my comment would be false...

so why would this person be insulted by the statement? why would someone be insulted by reality?

one answer may be that other peoples opinions create their reality... is this true? i dont really think so.

i would like to hear comments about the processes going on the insulted persons mind and why this leads them to be insulted. also what would they need to do to be uninsultable?


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibledeCypher
 User Gallery


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Insults [Re: quinn] * 2
    #13835276 - 01/23/11 01:36 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
suppose someone was fat
and i said 'you are fat'
i would just be making a statement which is true and which the person knows themselves.




Yes, but what would be your intention in making said statement?  If the person already knows it, what motivation would you have to say it other than trying to make the person feel bad?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
Re: Insults [Re: deCypher]
    #13835303 - 01/23/11 01:50 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

but then are you saying they feel bad because of my motivation to make them feel bad? hmm its possible... :strokebeard:

but still some insults are more effective because of their content regardless of their motivation. and some people can be insulted when you had no intention to whatsoever (and they are aware of that...)


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Insults [Re: quinn] * 5
    #13835341 - 01/23/11 02:03 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What if they dont think they are fat?  Or what if they were a lot fatter and are proud that now they are only a little fat?  Makes sense to me why insults hurt.  We are social animals that care what other think and how we fit into society.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleamuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
Re: Insults [Re: quinn]
    #13835369 - 01/23/11 02:24 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
but then are you saying they feel bad because of my motivation to make them feel bad? hmm its possible... :strokebeard:

but still some insults are more effective because of their content regardless of their motivation. and some people can be insulted when you had no intention to whatsoever (and they are aware of that...)




Communication is never perfect, someone can indeed be insulted by something that wasn't intended as an insult, and vice versa. But all else equal, if it is the intention to insult someone, then the likelihood of it being seen as such (an insult) will certainly increase most of the time.

If a small innocent child tells you that you are fat you might not see it as an insult, because  you don't see any (and there probably are no) ulterior motives in the child's mind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
Re: Insults [Re: amuzakat]
    #13835372 - 01/23/11 02:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

@diecommie
i am just trying to understand why.

yeh we are social but are we not aware of what is true? why can other peoples affirmation or denial of what we believe to be true insult us?

Quote:

amuzakat said:
Quote:

quinn said:
but then are you saying they feel bad because of my motivation to make them feel bad? hmm its possible... :strokebeard:

but still some insults are more effective because of their content regardless of their motivation. and some people can be insulted when you had no intention to whatsoever (and they are aware of that...)




Communication is never perfect, someone can indeed be insulted by something that wasn't intended as an insult, and vice versa. But all else equal, if it is the intention to insult someone, then the likelihood of it being seen as such (an insult) will certainly increase most of the time.

If a small innocent child tells you that you are fat you might not see it as an insult, because  you don't see any (and there probably are no) ulterior motives in the child's mind.





i agree but still you can feel insulted by the child... so why would you feel that?
maybe there are certain truths that we try to avoid...? but why would we avoid what is true?


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleamuzakat
Growing mutant shrooms

Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Europe
Re: Insults [Re: quinn]
    #13835406 - 01/23/11 03:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:i agree but still you can feel insulted by the child... so why would you feel that?
maybe there are certain truths that we try to avoid...? but why would we avoid what is true?



I agree. We have the capacity to contemplate many different things, but generally prefer those which are pleasurable. But the truth may be viewed from many angles, but when it's communicated as a (perceived) insult then that usually signifies that the receiver is viewing it extremely negative. Most likely, in the case of "fat", the person who feels he is insulted (often partly because of the perceived negative intent of the insulter) is not jut contemplating the truth of his being fat, but a whole range of negative connotations of being fat: unsuccessful, sweating, slow, ugly, disgusting, no good looking chicks want to have sex with him unless his wallet is even fatter than him. That's of course something that goes on in the receiver's mind, and all these things may be more or less true, or should we say, might come true with varying probabilities in different contexts. The person who feel insulted may feel you have invoked all of these extras, and not just pointed out a neutral quantitative measure of say, the amount of fat compared to height, bone and muscle mass, as his M.D. might have done it.

Same if you called someone an _addict_  for instance. Addict may refer just to that of craving a particular substance, and need not say anything about a person loosing control over other areas of his life. But in the minds of most people it signifies a shitload of negative things, many of which are true for one class of addicts, but not true all the time, or most of the time, for many others.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Insults [Re: deCypher]
    #13836481 - 01/23/11 12:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

If the person already knows it, what motivation would you have to say it other than trying to make the person feel bad?




THIS

ppl don't get insulted as often as they just don't appreciate the fact you're trying to insult them.


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Insults [Re: jivJaN]
    #13838021 - 01/23/11 05:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

insults are intended to hurt and provoke. everyone has shortcomings, and maliciously pointing them out in the heat of an argument tends to be pretty provocative. nobody wants to have things they may be sensitive about (which may or may not be true) thrown in their face during a situation where emotional tension is present. we've all done it, some of us more than others, and some of us make a life style out of (especially online), but ultimately it's a juvenile tactic that people employ when they either can't get their point across to someone or simply just want to be cruel.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!


Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Insults [Re: quinn] * 1
    #13839454 - 01/23/11 09:50 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

don't take this personally , this is a reaction to whatever i see in your words, it doesn't mean its about you unless it is , which makes for good philosophy , but try to ask more coherent questions , so that the duality of opposition does not have to come into play , there is a finer way , anyway , i am a rambling genius loon!
Quote:

quinn said:
the question i would like to discuss here is why people get insulted.

suppose someone was fat

and i said 'you are fat'
i would just be making a statement which is true and which the person knows themselves.

or if they werent fat then my comment would be false...

so why would this person be insulted by the statement? why would someone be insulted by reality?

one answer may be that other peoples opinions create their reality... is this true? i dont really think so.

i would like to hear comments about the processes going on the insulted persons mind and why this leads them to be insulted. also what would they need to do to be uninsultable?





you sound kind of dumb, to what extent would someone violating your dignity and doing things to you cause you to break down in tears ?

do unto others, don't be a stupid philosopher be a smart one .

if you are that christ like then give me all your money i could use it , and your house , i could use one ,  i've got a car, where do you draw the line  maybe by not telling fat people they are fat, ugly people they are ugly , gay people they are gay , and doing to people as you would have them to do to you

makes a lot more sense than stepping on someone's toes with words and wondering why they are upset ya  ?

philosophy is an act of stupidity or liberation depending on what angles and inferences and outcomes you are getting with it and where you are leading people. 

here's another point who the hell knows what fat means ? we look at someone and we see that but in a nation where all people are 300 lbs then a 600 lb man is fat.

i guess if you'd let me come to your place kick you out of it say i live here now and take all your good food and do what i would, and i'm not bad so i wouldn't do much , but basically take any nice drugs too while i'm at it , wouldn't need your car , maybe let you keep 25 % of your funds

if you are that pure and holy okay , your inference and reasoning makes sense, otherwise what the hell are you talking about thinking that someone should not be upset if another person violates their dignity  ( i'm not talking to YOU  , though, try to get what i'm getting at it adds up very nicely , i think you will see what is going on )

its called respect bro or woman .


your proposing an operative mode where people are going up to tear you to pieces as best they can every single day , there is only so much even a master could take of that , your reasoning doesn't make any sense at all
ask questions such as how can we make the world a nice place so that people are not making insults

or why do people make insults ?

or what are insults , now why are people being upset by being insulted man , 

do unto others as you would have them do unto you
that's why armies are so silly , they are preparing for war therefore creating the need to have one .

this is not a principle either is an absolute law which you cannot bypass , the law also throws you into a womans womb and spits you out as a baby based upon whether you are failling or passing it , so pass the law ,
its not a man made law its the way this entire universe is created with sentient consciousness including you

your philosophy seems ruined and empty and perverted and if that's your cup of tea you will choke on it some day , i am not saying you're dumb at all , but i kind of did to make a point , but the real point is why are you asking  the question : why do people get their feelings hurt when someone intentionally hurts their feelings .

to that i ask how much will you give me before you break down ?

i guess abu ghraib was a happy party ?

respect love and dignity bro or woman, its about finding something good to help someone with , finding the good in others man , you will never escape yourself and what you create for others , its all stored forever .

wanna know why a kid is born in africa with aids ? I don't but there's a reason for it ,

wanna know why michael jackson had his life ? I don't,but there's a reason for it

if you can stop time, space, and sentient existence let me know, otherwise we create, sow, and reap, until we go up , out , and beyond, don't like it ? its a good game , you get all the good you give away

use your mind to ask wholesome questions i would say , to all people at all times.

i mean ya , you can bully someone then he can be your abusive uncle after you die and go "shit, i'm still alive " .....

peace love and respect,
i don't care for obesity its a horrible thing but i would not say to a person they'r efat unless i wanted to try to totally drill sergeant them into a life style change and that doesn't work at all, not very well

i could just say "you look like you're getting healthier" then their mind will run free with new ideas and they will live it out .

and that's called love man .

also saying "you're fat " is not true
someone who IS fat would be eating 24/7 and go totally psychotic, for 99 % of the world what is going on is :
"fatness is expressing itself in part through you , as are many other systems of creation "
get it ?

some gay people are femme some are manly , the mold never fitts because we are not that, we are a buddha beyond it all and beyond a buddha we are a ___________________________

the person you are speaking to is you , alive, and what you do to that person is stored to come to you as soon as made allowed

this is why there are places of war ( middle east, muslim + jew , itchy and scratch ) going over and over and over again dying while other people are born with wealthy parents and go yacht sailing mannnn  or womannn

a hippy is not a hippy
a black person is not black
a white person is not white
beneath these ideas , those are tools, puzzle pieces, arranging a persons daily experience based upon their self image, so fatness is an attribute that can express through many and that may be insecurity OR enjoyment of the fineries of eating, and so there are healthy people that have a small bit of looking fat but you can feel that they are awesome happy people

and there are people that seem seriously messed up , and all sots of thing

when you give the operating system a new piece of code "hey you look like you're getting healthy " or praising something good about them, then immediately the "fat" program is diminished to some degree
make cents ?

$$$$$$$$$$  give dollars nao ! $$$$$$$$$$$

so really the emphasis is give love to people

if a kid says FUCK really loud the addult that rushes ( i put two ds in adult for a reason ) to punish the child is more childish than one who realizes that that is a very brilliant kid that had a strange program come to surface
and they work to praise the genius in him while also fine tuning

make sense ?
if you see something wrong in someone then you get so fixed on it you are hanging yourself, and if that is the case just leave them be and don't focus on them, if not then find something good inside them and  you are adding + 1 xp to their evolution  which is giving yourself some nice xp too.

in a relationship if someone is mean
and i say you're mean
i doom myself to be perpetuated against
if i say you are acting mean then all they can do is say i'm sorry  ( eventually , or immediately , depending on if i am infected with the reactionary demons that are  also infecting them  [  in which case the same spirit simply manifests fighting between two units ] )

now if i say YOU'RE MEAN then i try to shine light on the devil so to speak and things usually don't work right because their entire sentient self has just had a line of programming syntax added to the operating system
see ?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (01/23/11 10:19 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Insults [Re: leery11]
    #13839606 - 01/23/11 10:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

ooooohhh

me likey likey :dancer:

good shit , lots of passion and a genuine attempt to prove a point with more than just mere words.
to me.. the words you wrote out don't even matter.
i already forgot them.

all i see is an after image that explains it all.
like a tracer.
boo !
im still here.


but nehow..
i think theres something you're missing here. respect should sometimes be understood without saying and what is normally considered disrespect should be common among friends and such.

lets take black people as an example.
if i have a friend thats black.. and he gets upset when i say NIGGA , whether its directly to him or someone else in the mundane slang most of us have become accustomed to - then i have a problem with that and will most likely keep violating that oh so precious dignity until s/he gets the message.

i don't care that you're black.
it makes no difference to me whatsoever.
from now on.. when i say nigger.. it isn't to insult you.
if that bothers you.. fuck off and go fight your battle with some1 who cares.

same goes for fat people actually.
i have a buddy thats fat as fuck.
i give him shit for it all the time.
we're guys and its how it goes.
fuck you fatass.



its not a matter of dignity and respect sometimes. its a matter of being a normal person with a normal social life.
someone that understands how , particularly  men , function and interact with each other.

we just give each other shit...


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
Re: Insults [Re: jivJaN]
    #13843210 - 01/24/11 04:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

@ leery... ummm ok. impressive rant. my op obviously seemed to have struck a nerve. but my intention was not to justify insulting people but to understand why, all of us, as people, can be insulted.

i have been thinking maybe we are insulted when someone says something about a part of ourselves that we take seriously.

like jivjan mentioned, he is a terrible mean friend pointing out all the flaws in his mates (like his fat friend). but maybe his fat friend doesnt mind because he doesnt take his weight seriously and he knows jivjan is not (if ever) being serious about it.

if he did take it seriously i think he would be insulted. and there are aspects to everyone that they take seriously, their intelligence, their talent, their looks, their job, their beliefs, power, position... whatever. and i feel like if you criticize one of these things they hold essential to themselves in their heart, they will be insulted. maybe regardless of the truth of your comment.

so maybe the key to becoming one of the uninsultable is to stop being so serious. :yesnod:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,260
Re: Insults [Re: quinn]
    #13845487 - 01/24/11 11:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It comes down to survival and death anxiety. As social creatures, we have developed some degree of dependency on each other. All people may not need validation from everyone, but there is inherent desire to be appreciated. Insults and a lack of approval increase the chances the person will not receive support and care, and on the extreme end there is the possibility of being ostracized and left to die alone.

As far as motivational factors, painful feelings of unworthiness may motivate a person to change and thus negate the insult. A display of submission and hurt feelings may result in temperament on the part of the insulter, or feelings of anger rise to challenge the accuser, and negate the insult that way.

Anyone can be hurt by the right person, the idea is to find relationships with considerate people. Trust is vulnerability. A person who is lacking in caring relationships is more likely to be insulted through casual means, as they will have feelings of being ostracized and are seeking a "new tribe", or at least someone who will validate them. They more easily give trust, though are less likely to give fully. Those with heavy hearts and shattered dreams are already hurting and easily hurt.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi

Edited by Rahz (01/25/11 03:07 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: Insults [Re: Rahz]
    #13847378 - 01/25/11 11:37 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Insults and a lack of disapproval increase the chances...


Don't you mean the lack of approval?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,260
Re: Insults [Re: Poid]
    #13848533 - 01/25/11 03:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yes I did, thank you.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineauxiliary
Mr.
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Insults [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #13849488 - 01/25/11 06:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

BEING FAT IS BAD


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Insults [Re: auxiliary]
    #13849901 - 01/25/11 07:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

not if its really cold


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblequinn
some kinda love
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
Re: Insults [Re: jivJaN]
    #13862541 - 01/27/11 08:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i think i realized something.

my op asked the question why can people be insulted by the truth or reality?

then i thought maybe we try avoid certain truths.

and then i thought that 'seriousness' or what people take seriously about themselves, is at the root of being insulted.


now i think what we take seriously is what leads us to bending, obscuring or avoiding reality or what is true.

we see this with ppl on this forum all the time. ppl with religious beliefs (not that religion is bad) but who cant accept scientific truths about the world.

i think this is because they take their beliefs seriously and so that investment is what leads them to avoid something that could challenge it.

or people who take their looks 'seriously' might form views about themselves that do not accord with the reality of how they actually look... and this could lead to strange things like joan rivers or michael jackson.

it seems like what we take seriously can get in the way of what is true.

and i might even venture to claim that all the terrible things that humans have done to eachother through history, have always been executed by a very serious person.

so the moral of the story is don't be so serious.


--------------------
dripping with fantasy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* An exercise in interpretation or intention.
( 1 2 3 all )
Anonymous 3,342 42 02/11/04 04:06 PM
by trendal
* A NEW HOPE - GODianity.... Living with TRUE Selfless Positive Intentions Towards Others.... PhanTomCat 1,350 10 03/19/05 10:26 PM
by niteowl
* Intention vs. Desire Swami 1,405 11 06/16/03 01:36 PM
by Anonymous
* my hidden intent.
( 1 2 all )
kaiowas 1,879 21 12/29/03 08:04 PM
by Frog
* Tripping & Intent
( 1 2 all )
Swami 3,699 32 04/26/03 08:00 AM
by Anonymous
* Content and Intent
( 1 2 all )
Icelander 3,301 38 06/29/07 09:57 AM
by Icelander
* Judeo-Christian God intended as metaphor?
( 1 2 all )
WhiskeyClone 2,580 21 07/26/05 04:30 PM
by eve69
* Icelander's proposed "Intent" rule
( 1 2 all )
Swami 2,364 29 08/04/05 07:04 PM
by Alobar

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,501 topic views. 4 members, 11 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.