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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Therian]
#13864838 - 01/28/11 07:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said: Under the current political climate there is no hope for change, we're fucked, and resistance is futile.
The only way I can see any change happening is if campaign contributions are limited to perhaps a max of 1000 US dollars. PAC's and lobbyists would then be pointless, and our elected officials would not be beholding to their benefactors, but to us the citizenry of this country. Until such happens you've been outbid, and the lying money whores in washington on both sides would gladly walk over your body, using it as a floor mat so they could grovel at the feet of, and beg for the opportunity to lick Goldman's sack.
You seem to think that voting is bullshit and that free speech in the form of campaign contributions is only for poor people. By the way, you should lick Goldman's sack. They pay billions in taxes. Huge billions.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13864850 - 01/28/11 07:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You seem to think that voting is bullshit
The fact that my vote only counts for ONE out of ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION registered voters in this country is bullshit.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Flop Johnson]
#13864864 - 01/28/11 08:02 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Flop Johnson said: I can't seem to find one positive thing about the direction our country (United States) has been going for the past 50 or so years. It seems that every year political and corporate bonds get tighter and the government's relationship with the people gets thinner and less genuine. There are so many problems it's hard to blame it on one thing.
Basically what I want to know is:
Do you think the United States is fucked long-term?
All govt's and civilizations are fucked long term.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Seuss]
#13864870 - 01/28/11 08:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seuss said: I think the People can still take control back... the overwhelming support for Obama was based upon his deceitful 'promise of change'. When his lie became apparent, a large portion of his supporters switched over to tea party candidates. Some of them may be a bit wacky, but they are certainly a change from the spenders we have been electing. Time will tell...
Its very difficult to beat a sitting president especially one who has the media in his back pocket but the number of pissed off people keeps growing and growing.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Flop Johnson]
#13864882 - 01/28/11 08:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Flop Johnson said:
Do you think the United States is fucked long-term?
short term yes, our debt is out of control!
Long term no, we still have plenty of resources in this country.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: deCypher]
#13864919 - 01/28/11 08:26 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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deCypher said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: You seem to think that voting is bullshit
The fact that my vote only counts for ONE out of ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY MILLION registered voters in this country is bullshit.
I find it reassuring, Your Highness.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13864928 - 01/28/11 08:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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someday I'll be at your level of snappy comebacks. Someday...
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: deCypher]
#13866212 - 01/28/11 02:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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You seem to think that voting is bullshit and that free speech in the form of campaign contributions is only for poor people. By the way, you should lick Goldman's sack. They pay billions in taxes. Huge billions.
Voting is not bullshit, just an exercise in futility. Therefore when the op stated is there any hope for change, the answer is a resounding no. Do you see any change for the better from either side? What change are the repubs looking for?
Contributions only for poor people? How many poor people have an extra grand sitting around the house? As I stated the rich, poor, and middle class could all give, there would just be a set max for everyone. Also no special interest, PACS, lobbyists, etc. Do you want your congressmen to be owned and beholding to the highest bidder? I can guarantee it aint you. They pay billions? So do millions upon millions of small business owners. You know, the ones that produce 60-70% of all jobs in America. I don't recall any of those small business owners receiving 13 billion dollars of taxpayers money, do you? I'll leave the sack licking to the officials who nothing more than owned lap dog bitches to the bankers.
Why do the repubs want to repeal the laws governing high risk/high leverage speculative derivatives. The abuse of which brought about the downfall of the financial markets, you know the ones we the people paid billions, BIG BILLIONS to bail out. The dems are no better, they just lick the sack of a different master, and it definately is not joe public.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Therian]
#13866304 - 01/28/11 02:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said:
Quote:
You seem to think that voting is bullshit and that free speech in the form of campaign contributions is only for poor people. By the way, you should lick Goldman's sack. They pay billions in taxes. Huge billions.
Voting is not bullshit, just an exercise in futility. Therefore when the op stated is there any hope for change, the answer is a resounding no. Do you see any change for the better from either side? What change are the repubs looking for?
That we can get rid of that idiotic health deform law and that the federal government will stop trying to be everything for everybody. That wasn't the original idea and it isn't my idea.Quote:
Contributions only for poor people? How many poor people have an extra grand sitting around the house? As I stated the rich, poor, and middle class could all give, there would just be a set max for everyone. Also no special interest, PACS, lobbyists, etc. Do you want your congressmen to be owned and beholding to the highest bidder? I can guarantee it aint you.
Why shouldn't PACS and special interests be able to support any candidate they wish as much as they wish? I'm a special interest and so are you.Quote:
They pay billions? So do millions upon millions of small business owners. You know, the ones that produce 60-70% of all jobs in America. I don't recall any of those small business owners receiving 13 billion dollars of taxpayers money, do you? I'll leave the sack licking to the officials who nothing more than owned lap dog bitches to the bankers.
Right. Lap dogs for the banks that they keep screwing and demonizing but who lend me money when I want it. I'll take the banks over politicians any fucking day. I voluntarily utilize banks. There is nothing voluntary about what I have to accept from the government. Less government = more freedom.Quote:
Why do the repubs want to repeal the laws governing high risk/high leverage speculative derivatives. The abuse of which brought about the downfall of the financial markets, you know the ones we the people paid billions, BIG BILLIONS to bail out. The dems are no better, they just lick the sack of a different master, and it definately is not joe public.
Do you know who bought the high risk instruments? Other professional money managers. Tough shit for them. As to the billions in bailouts THE TAXPAYER HAS MADE MONEY OFF THE BANK BAILOUTS! Get with the news, dude. And no, derivitives did not cause the collapse of the banks. What caused the collapse of the banks was all the assholes (that's the joe publics for your information) who borrowed money and didn't pay it back. Schmucks who the government coerced the banks into lending to, in the name of "affordable housing". Which policy caused the price of homes to rise.
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crazyshroomhead
Stranger
Registered: 01/25/11
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13867246 - 01/28/11 05:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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The vast majority of corporations are decent, but Goldman Sachs is not one of them. They certainly do not pay very much in taxes, compared to how much they take in the form of bailouts it's laughable to even argue that point.
To see their influence over politicians is disgusting, just look at the current and the previous secretary of treasuries. The last one Hank Paulson, a former GS henchman, orchestrated one of the largest thefts in human history. For anyone who believes the nonsense they paid back the loan, well they just took money from the tax payer supplied escrow account to pay it off.
The word used to describe an economic system where there's a merging of corporations and state is fascism. The description comes straight from the horse's mouth Mussolini. Simply put, if you support Goldman Sachs you're a fascist.
Edited by crazyshroomhead (01/28/11 05:14 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: crazyshroomhead]
#13867604 - 01/28/11 06:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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crazyshroomhead said: The vast majority of corporations are decent, but Goldman Sachs is not one of them. They certainly do not pay very much in taxes, compared to how much they take in the form of bailouts it's laughable to even argue that point.
It's laughable that you don't know that they repaid every cent at usorious interest rates. Plus they pay billions in taxes almost every year. Bilions. With a B.Quote:
To see their influence over politicians is disgusting, just look at the current and the previous secretary of treasuries. The last one Hank Paulson, a former GS henchman, orchestrated one of the largest thefts in human history. For anyone who believes the nonsense they paid back the loan, well they just took money from the tax payer supplied escrow account to pay it off.
What theft is that? And no, they did not repay the government back with government money. That was GM. You are either ignorant or lying or both. Quote:
The word used to describe an economic system where there's a merging of corporations and state is fascism. The description comes straight from the horse's mouth Mussolini. Simply put, if you support Goldman Sachs you're a fascist.
Bullshit.
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crazyshroomhead
Stranger
Registered: 01/25/11
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Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: crazyshroomhead]
#13868372 - 01/28/11 09:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Whatever makes you feel better after getting GS cock up the poop shoot, if you actually think the TARP funds were paid in full... ouch. By the way GS wasn't FDIC insured, are you really supporting the dirty way they got the funds?? Man you really fell for that hook line and sinker. I'm as laissez faire as they get, but that's just straight up fascism.
Edited by crazyshroomhead (01/28/11 09:20 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: crazyshroomhead]
#13870004 - 01/29/11 08:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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crazyshroomhead said: Whatever makes you feel better after getting GS cock up the poop shoot, if you actually think the TARP funds were paid in full... ouch. By the way GS wasn't FDIC insured, are you really supporting the dirty way they got the funds?? Man you really fell for that hook line and sinker. I'm as laissez faire as they get, but that's just straight up fascism.
What does the FDIC have to do with it? Nothing. Never did. The government decided it was a good idea to lend them money for a short period of time. It has turned out to be a wonderfully lucrative investment. Because G-S was perceived to be in distress the government was able to impose high interest rates. Now the money is paid back and G-S is a profitable entity paying billions in taxes. Taxes you don't pay. WIN.
Your assertion of what I said is false. I did not say the TARP funds were all repaid. I said the money the banks got has been and has generated a windfall for the taxpayer. Even AIG is on pace to repay the money. What the taxpayer is not likely to ever recover from TARP is the money used to bailout the automobile company unions. In fact, that use of TARP was improper. The legislation did not allow it.
You can't make facts up to suit your argument. And that is exactly what you are doing. Try reading the news. The NY Times, openly hostile to G-S and Wall Street in general, has reported just precisely what I am saying. I'm sure it stuck in their craw, just as it is sticking in yours, but they're grownups and aren't quite capable of lying in the face of overwhelming truth.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871184 - 01/29/11 01:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why shouldn't PACS and special interests be able to support any candidate they wish as much as they wish? I'm a special interest and so are you.
I'd hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but contrary to what you think you're not special. Neither am I. I would guarantee you don't have the financial resources to be considered special by your congressmen. Why shouldn't they be able to give as much as they want? Don't you know how the gov. works? I know you can not be so obtuse that you don't realize they give money to receive special treatment by the reps. The special treatment often is not in the best interest of the vast majority of the constituency they are elected to represent. The banks own most of those in congress.
O.K. so if the special interests are not looking for any favors from the reps and are just giving to them due to the fact they like their political rhetoric, then let everyone give as much as they want, but require that it be done anonymously.
Quote:
Right. Lap dogs for the banks that they keep screwing and demonizing
They keep demonizing the banks? I'm quite sure the banks do a fine job of that without congressional assistance.http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/credit/bear-stearns-mortgage-backed-securities-lawsuit-fraud-wells-fargo/19817713/ You can read here about some of the fraudulent practices performed by the banks. It wasn't just the schmucks doing that led to the downfall, it was encouraged, lied about, and covered up by the banks.
As far as being coerced by the gov. the affordable housing measures were mainly implemented in the inner cities, to increase home ownership for minorities, these people are not "joe public"
About a year ago a russian computer programmer working for goldman stole a computer program he designed which enabled goldman to manipulate the market. http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/109475 By Goldmans own admission they stated that this program could potentially allow market manipulation which could make billions of dollars for the user. Of course they only stated this after it was stolen and the truth of its purpose would soon be known. If prior to this someone stated they knew goldman was illegally using technology to screw the average investor while allowing them to artificially inflate prices at their own will, they would have been given the tin cap emoticon and sent to the conspiracy theory forum.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Therian]
#13871473 - 01/29/11 03:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said:
Quote:
Why shouldn't PACS and special interests be able to support any candidate they wish as much as they wish? I'm a special interest and so are you.
I'd hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but contrary to what you think you're not special. Neither am I. I would guarantee you don't have the financial resources to be considered special by your congressmen. Why shouldn't they be able to give as much as they want? Don't you know how the gov. works? I know you can not be so obtuse that you don't realize they give money to receive special treatment by the reps. The special treatment often is not in the best interest of the vast majority of the constituency they are elected to represent. The banks own most of those in congress.
Or maybe they just give money to Reps who they think will support their interests.
"Special interest" has nothing to do with being big or amazing. I am a "special interest" because my interests are unique to me. They most certainly comport more closely with corporations and banks than they do with the likes of the anti-corporation nitwits on the left, generally, and in the press and academia.Quote:
O.K. so if the special interests are not looking for any favors from the reps and are just giving to them due to the fact they like their political rhetoric, then let everyone give as much as they want, but require that it be done anonymously.
I like it. In fact, I like it a lot. There is only one problem I see and that is foreign donations, which I absolutely oppose in any form.
This is directly contra to anything being proposed by the anti-corporatists, by the way, who are insisting that not only donations to candidates but also to organizations running any political ads be fully disclosed.
I am intrigued, though. Never considered it before.Quote:
Quote:
Right. Lap dogs for the banks that they keep screwing and demonizing
They keep demonizing the banks? I'm quite sure the banks do a fine job of that without congressional assistance.http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/credit/bear-stearns-mortgage-backed-securities-lawsuit-fraud-wells-fargo/19817713/ You can read here about some of the fraudulent practices performed by the banks. It wasn't just the schmucks doing that led to the downfall, it was encouraged, lied about, and covered up by the banks.
Yeah there is some bad shit done by banks, the most closely scrutinized industry in the whole country. There are also remedies for those things in the courts. Demanding perfect behavior from all banks and corporations is idiotic. The vast majority of them are strictly on the up and up. My point about the demonizing of an entire industry is about Obama and the liberal press and the Democrat Congress in general constantly blaming them for everything bad that happens. Anything to divert attention from their own complicity. Given the way people currently feel about their government it hasn't actually worked.Quote:
As far as being coerced by the gov. the affordable housing measures were mainly implemented in the inner cities, to increase home ownership for minorities, these people are not "joe public"
Of course they are. Part of it. The point was that they were not banks or corporations or politicians or journalists with printing presses. And the coercion extended beyond the targeted population. How could the banks not extend it without being accused of discrimination by somebody? Everybody is always screaming "Where's mine?" That shit is always a slippery slope. Give one guy something he doesn't deserve and everybody will want something they don't deserve.Quote:
About a year ago a russian computer programmer working for goldman stole a computer program he designed which enabled goldman to manipulate the market. http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/109475 By Goldmans own admission they stated that this program could potentially allow market manipulation which could make billions of dollars for the user. Of course they only stated this after it was stolen and the truth of its purpose would soon be known. If prior to this someone stated they knew goldman was illegally using technology to screw the average investor while allowing them to artificially inflate prices at their own will, they would have been given the tin cap emoticon and sent to the conspiracy theory forum.
Most if your post is flagrant bullshit. They made a program that enabled them to trade faster than their competitors. Completely legit. The Russian, however, is in prison. The only thing your link says regarding manipulation is that the program could be used to manipulate the market. No assertion that it has been. I could use a gun to shoot someone. But that would be a crime and if I did it I would probably be arrested.
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871665 - 01/29/11 03:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Campaign finance/our electoral process is one of the main avenues that corruption has used to take hold of politics.
Not saying they're all crooked, but really how do you expect it not to happen when it's structured the way it is?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Flop Johnson]
#13871717 - 01/29/11 04:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Flop Johnson said: Campaign finance/our electoral process is one of the main avenues that corruption has used to take hold of politics.
Not saying they're all crooked, but really how do you expect it not to happen when it's structured the way it is?
I think actual corruption is pretty low. Money corruption, that is. How about this for corruption:
Government employee unions get to vote for the politicians who are supposed to be negotiating for the rest of us on the other side of the table.
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871762 - 01/29/11 04:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wasn't really referring to big businesses handing envelopes of $100 bills to politicians.
I was more thinking of cronyism, and appointing unqualified business partners/lobbyists to positions of real power.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: Flop Johnson]
#13871939 - 01/29/11 04:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Flop Johnson said: I wasn't really referring to big businesses handing envelopes of $100 bills to politicians.
I was more thinking of cronyism, and appointing unqualified business partners/lobbyists to positions of real power.
Who are they going to appoint? Run of the mill retards? Hell, half the lobbyist are probably politicians who lost their seats. I have no problem with lobbyists. The Constitution provides for the right of the people to petition their government. That is exactly what lobbyists do.
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Re: Is there any hope for change? (no pun intended) [Re: zappaisgod]
#13871961 - 01/29/11 04:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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There's over 40 lobbyists who have been appointed to senior positions by the Obama admin. The vast majority of which were not politicians first. I'm at a loss as to how you don't see that as a conflict of interest.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Who are they going to appoint?
Someone qualified?
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