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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13864681 - 01/28/11 05:43 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> she's never paid anything out of pocket for any of her medical care

Somebody, somewhere, had to pay... even socialized medicine isn't "free".


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineChuangTzu
starvingphysicist
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Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Learyfan]
    #13864683 - 01/28/11 05:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What's the big deal?  The dude didn't pay his bills, but due to market pressures, the dude got his insurance back.  No government intervention was necessary.  I'd say that's a win for the free market right there.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #13864694 - 01/28/11 06:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> What's the big deal?  The dude didn't pay his bills, but due to market pressures, the dude got his insurance back.

*gasp*  So you would just let this guy die over two cents!?!?  /sarcasm


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Learyfan] * 2
    #13865437 - 01/28/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The story is sad but not surprising.  In Texas (which is 50th out of the 50 states for health insurance coverage) sick, uninsured people ARE turned away without adequate treatment in some cases.  I wonder if his cancer was caused by exposure to Agent Orange?

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13865459 - 01/28/11 11:34 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> The story is sad but not surprising.

How is the story sad?  Dude doesn't pay his bill, even after several notices, thus his provider terminates his service.  After bill is paid, provider reinstates his service.  Dude gets his treatment.  I must have missed the sad part where the dude died or something.

> uninsured people ARE turned away without adequate treatment in some cases.

Adequate by what definition?  A hospital is not allowed to turn away somebody, regardless of their ability to pay, if they have a life threatening issue.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Seuss]
    #13865463 - 01/28/11 11:35 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> she's never paid anything out of pocket for any of her medical care

Somebody, somewhere, had to pay... even socialized medicine isn't "free".





Erlanger is a teaching hospital, much of the staff is unpaid students and
even volunteers, and while a portion of their funding is from the public
coffers there's a great deal that's also coming from private donations

I'm certainly not claiming that she got free treatment, what I am saying is
that she personally did not shell out the cash for the medical care (other
than from her tax dollars collected over the years)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Seuss]
    #13865512 - 01/28/11 11:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
I must have missed the sad part




the sad part is that the big corporations succumbed to the pressures of the
corporate media and yet they still won because they're corporations

Quote:

Quote:

> uninsured people ARE turned away without adequate treatment in some cases.




Adequate by what definition?  A hospital is not allowed to turn away somebody, regardless of their ability to pay, if they have a life threatening issue.




typically people that dont receive adequate treatment are too lazy to
follow up, I've never seen anyone with a non life threatening issue turned
away from an ER, of course the ER is the wrong place to go for sniffles
just because someone is broke, that's why we have county health
departments across every state in the nation

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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #13865545 - 01/28/11 11:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> The story is sad but not surprising.

How is the story sad?  Dude doesn't pay his bill, even after several notices, thus his provider terminates his service.  After bill is paid, provider reinstates his service.  Dude gets his treatment.  I must have missed the sad part where the dude died or something.

The story said he didn't get any notices for an unpaid bill. It's sad that the couple had to go to the media to get the issue resolved.

> uninsured people ARE turned away without adequate treatment in some cases.

Adequate by what definition?  A hospital is not allowed to turn away somebody, regardless of their ability to pay, if they have a life threatening issue.




I know of people being sent home from a Texas hospital with antibiotics when they had life threatening issues.  For example, my stepson was sent home from the emergency room for an intense headache and was told he had strep throat.  The 3rd time he went to the emergency room, they said it was strep throat again, but his wife and father insisted on an x-ray or MRI.  It turned out he had an agressive form of brain cancer.  He was treated then, but the hospttal personnel did not want to do anything more than a strep throat test, and only did further investigation after being pressured by the family.  This is just one case.  My husband knows many more cases, the most recent being a 19 year old being sent home with a severe case of pnuemonia, and he died shortly afterward.  It shocked me when I first moved here, not anymore.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: HippieChick8]
    #13865655 - 01/28/11 12:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:

I know of people being sent home from a Texas hospital with antibiotics when they had life threatening issues.  For example, my stepson was sent home from the emergency room for an intense headache and was told he had strep throat.  The 3rd time he went to the emergency room, they said it was strep throat again, but his wife and father insisted on an x-ray or MRI.  It turned out he had an agressive form of brain cancer.  He was treated then, but the hospttal personnel did not want to do anything more than a strep throat test, and only did further investigation after being pressured by the family.  This is just one case.  My husband knows many more cases, the most recent being a 19 year old being sent home with a severe case of pnuemonia, and he died shortly afterward.  It shocked me when I first moved here, not anymore.




so in fact he wasnt turned away from having proper treatment but he was
misdiagnosed, a common problem with internal medicine since it's not an
exact science and it took 3 visits for your family to exercise due
diligence as opposed to making that attempt on the first 2 visits and of
course when a proper diagnosis was made proper treatment began

my ex wife was misdiagosed with bronchitis when she felt she was coming
down with pneumonia, a second visit 3 days later yeilded the correct
diagnosis and treatment began, she spent 2 weeks in ICU and there was no
cash out of my pocket for any of the expenses that were incurred


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OfflineHippieChick8
seeker of justice
Female


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 869
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13866272 - 01/28/11 02:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

HippieChick8 said:

I know of people being sent home from a Texas hospital with antibiotics when they had life threatening issues.  For example, my stepson was sent home from the emergency room for an intense headache and was told he had strep throat.  The 3rd time he went to the emergency room, they said it was strep throat again, but his wife and father insisted on an x-ray or MRI.  It turned out he had an agressive form of brain cancer.  He was treated then, but the hospttal personnel did not want to do anything more than a strep throat test, and only did further investigation after being pressured by the family.  This is just one case.  My husband knows many more cases, the most recent being a 19 year old being sent home with a severe case of pnuemonia, and he died shortly afterward.  It shocked me when I first moved here, not anymore.




so in fact he wasnt turned away from having proper treatment but he was
misdiagnosed, a common problem with internal medicine since it's not an
exact science and it took 3 visits for your family to exercise due
diligence as opposed to making that attempt on the first 2 visits and of
course when a proper diagnosis was made proper treatment began

my ex wife was misdiagosed with bronchitis when she felt she was coming
down with pneumonia, a second visit 3 days later yeilded the correct
diagnosis and treatment began, she spent 2 weeks in ICU and there was no
cash out of my pocket for any of the expenses that were incurred






I was not his stepmother at the time he was misdiagnosed but I don't know if I could have persuaded the medical personnel to do anything more the first 2 times. 

My husband was also misdiagnosed when he was in the military.  They accused him of being high on drugs when actually he had very high blood pressure and never should have been allowed to enlist.  Later, after they could not successfully treat him, he was honorably discharged for "psychological reasons", and a general practitioner found the cause and treated him.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: Seuss]
    #13868619 - 01/28/11 10:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> The story is sad but not surprising.

How is the story sad?  Dude doesn't pay his bill, even after several notices, thus his provider terminates his service.  After bill is paid, provider reinstates his service.  Dude gets his treatment.  I must have missed the sad part where the dude died or something.

> uninsured people ARE turned away without adequate treatment in some cases.

Adequate by what definition?  A hospital is not allowed to turn away somebody, regardless of their ability to pay, if they have a life threatening issue.





well an emergency room, but same difference  (in the states this has lead to a rapid increase in the number of freestanding fee for service surgery and rapid care centers which are not obliged to do anything under the law- one more unanticipated consequence of the government's mucking about in healthcare that ends up costing everyone in the end in both treatment quality and costs).  The practical effect of that obligation to stabalize on the part of the ER is that nobody is turned away period until they've been pretty thoroughly evaluated, because you can't tell if someone needs life saving or stabilizing treatment until you do the whole shebang worth of tests.  While its easy to find one thing that could be life threatening (bullet in head, bleeding, coughing...) its almost inconceivable that you'd find something that allows you to conclude someone doesn't have a life threatening condition.



Add the fun effects of prohibition and people who are depressed and have an ax to gring, and you get a bunch of kooks mixed in with the legitimate patients (and a fare amount of kooks who are legitimate patients despite their best efforts) who are all after something (i.e. narcotics) and making up stories to get it.  If they could go to the store and buy the drugs that are many orders of magnitude cheaper than the ER exam they wind up getting (less than a dollar vs thousands), I think you'd see a big decrease in malingering and costs.

As it is now, these clowns show up and clog everything up while pissing everyone off and doing their best to make healthcare providers slowly begin to hate and distrust everyone.

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Offlinejimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast
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Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: johnm214] * 1
    #13868633 - 01/28/11 10:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

These companies are in the business of not providing healthcare. They refer to paid claims as "medical losses".

This is business as usual.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: jimbotron]
    #13868639 - 01/28/11 10:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

What companies are "these companies"?  What does it matter what they call something?  Who cares?


I'm writing my congressman to get him to make it official that we now refer to healthcare expenses as "cake", because everyone loves cake.  Should be much better, yes?

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Cancer patient and Vietnam vet loses insurance over 2 cents [Re: jimbotron]
    #13869983 - 01/29/11 08:49 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimbotron said:
These companies are in the business of not providing healthcare. They refer to paid claims as "medical losses".

This is business as usual.



If they are in the business of not providing benefits why would anybody buy their product?  By the way, they do not "provide" health care.  They use funds collected to pay for health care.  They make about a 3-4% profit.  Every time they pay claims not included in the contract they are ripping off the other buyers of the plan.


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