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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: the_drummer]
    #13853757 - 01/26/11 12:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Transcontinental high-speed trains, promotion of business, education, clean energy, research, freezing gov't spending, better cell phone reception, pulling out of Iraq, etc. etc.




I see all of that possibly happening whether the feds get involved or not. :shrug:

But putting money into schools doing research on clean energy would probably be a good investment, if you were in a mood to spend tax money.


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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Seuss]
    #13854013 - 01/26/11 01:15 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I assume you are trying to be funny?  I've seen plenty of Republican's use a teleprompter.  If you are alluding to those that make fun of Obama for his teleprompter addiction, then you are comparing apples to oranges.




Oh, I know. There's a clear black-and-white difference between Obama and every other president who ever used a teleprompter.

Quote:

Seuss said: Obama, on the other hand, sounds like a stuttering fool when you take away his teleprompter.




Three words:

"You forgot Poland!"*

Seriously... we are through the looking glass now. Next you'll tell me that you can't stand the way he mispronounces the word "nuclear".

*Not to mention, "Message: I Care."

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: jimbotron]
    #13854028 - 01/26/11 01:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

> Next you'll tell me that you can't stand the way he mispronounces the word "nuclear".

Actually, it was Bush that annoyed me with his pronunciation of new-cue-ler.  I've not noticed it with uh, uh, um... uh, ah, uh, um... now hold on... uh, um... Obama.


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Offlinejimbotron
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Seuss]
    #13854074 - 01/26/11 01:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It's called a verbal pause. Most people do them; generally, verbal ability is judged by whether there are actual thoughts in between, or word salad.



Also, did somebody send out a memo?

Reading through the comments on Daily Beast:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-21/paul-ryans-doomed-state-of-the-union-rebuttal/

Quote:

take him off the prompter and he's a stuttering fool.




Google images search for "Barack Obama teleprompter" brings me to this:


It's like the Mandelbrot set of right-wing memes. Once you know about it, you see it everywhere.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: jimbotron] * 1
    #13854226 - 01/26/11 01:50 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Or maybe it's just an accurate description.  What a fucking concept.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13854391 - 01/26/11 02:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Like I said, the only clean energy research the government should be funding is fusion.  So far it is a total pile of bullshit, vast sums flushed down a toilet to subsidize shit that is only marginally useful and that only for restricted parts of the country.



I'm not an Obama-ite, but are you suggesting that research into clean energy is somehow pointless? You know we can't run on fossil fuels forever.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #13854480 - 01/26/11 02:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Flop Johnson said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Like I said, the only clean energy research the government should be funding is fusion.  So far it is a total pile of bullshit, vast sums flushed down a toilet to subsidize shit that is only marginally useful and that only for restricted parts of the country.



I'm not an Obama-ite, but are you suggesting that research into clean energy is somehow pointless? You know we can't run on fossil fuels forever.



Fusion.  It is the only hope.  Solar, wind, geo, all intrinsically inadequate and, frankly, not that fucking clean.  There is no way any of those will ever amount to shit.

There are plenty of private companies doing research into clean energy.  Lots and lots of them.  If they can make it work they will make money.  They are the most efficient allocators of funds.  Government bureaucrats are the least.  Unless the project is so huge that only a giant government entity can take on the risk it should be left to the competent entities.  Private business.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13854513 - 01/26/11 02:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Fusion.  It is the only hope.



That's a pretty rash blanket statement.

I see where you're coming from, I just think there is some merit to government funded research.

For example, people give NASA shit, but the fact of the matter is that we would have never landed on the moon had space travel been left to private developers.

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OfflineTNK
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Flop Johnson] * 1
    #13854567 - 01/26/11 02:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Better cell phone reception-  ??????WTF??????  Switch carriers, dude.  Mine is great.  Why exactly is this the government's business?




I don't know about you guys but i would not feel comfortable having the American government be my cell phone provider,

:feelsbadman:


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Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #13854607 - 01/26/11 02:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Flop Johnson said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Fusion.  It is the only hope.



That's a pretty rash blanket statement.

I see where you're coming from, I just think there is some merit to government funded research.

For example, people give NASA shit, but the fact of the matter is that we would have never landed on the moon had space travel been left to private developers.



That was 40 years ago and what, other than a truly glorious fuck you to the commies, did we get from it that we could not have gotten cheaper elsewhere?

I am 100% confident in that blanket statement.  Eventually there will be nothing left to dig, there isn't enough space for wind and solar nor does the wind always blow or the sun always shine.  Batteries are eco-evil like nobody's business and even the fucking curly light bulbs are bad.  China currently (but not for long) monopolize rare earths essential for all that crap, too, but there is a reason why no other country mines them.  It is very polluting.

I'm looking long term.  Really long.  We must make our own suns or be forever slave to what we can scavenge.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13854756 - 01/26/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I think a long term solution lies in solar power and non-lithium nanobatteries. The university I went to is currently developing a type of battery (dubbed nanobattery, but of no relation to the Toshiba lithium nanobattery) that stores and releases energy at a 99% efficiency. It does this by stalling an exothermic reaction by storing the batteries at room temperature.

It's not finalized, but they don't require rare earths and the sun is plentiful.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #13854789 - 01/26/11 03:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It doesn't matter.  There are too many people for it to ever be able to cover that kind of need.  You would have to blanket the planet with solar cells and the where would you grow food?  Not.  Practical.  Fringe pipe dream.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13854806 - 01/26/11 03:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Why do you think we would have to blanket the planet in solar cells?

The reason they are not efficient is because we cannot figure out a way to properly harness and store the energy - it's not that the energy isn't there to be had. That's why I brought up the nanobattery technology - because if you can store and release energy at 99% efficieny, shit, even 75% efficiency, solar power would not only be practical it would be the obvious choice.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #13854817 - 01/26/11 03:34 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Flop Johnson said:
Why do you think we would have to blanket the planet in solar cells?




Pure volume
Quote:



The reason they are not efficient is because we cannot figure out a way to properly harness and store the energy - it's not that the energy isn't there to be had. That's why I brought up the nanobattery technology - because if you can store and release energy at 99% efficieny, shit, even 75% efficiency, solar power would not only be practical it would be the obvious choice.




You still have to collect it.


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InvisibleFlop Johnson
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13854837 - 01/26/11 03:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Okay, so how does researching solar cells not sound like a worthy endeavor? We know they work, they just aren't efficient enough yet. It's not like saying we want to put money into cold fusion or something - the science has been tested.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Flop Johnson]
    #13855141 - 01/26/11 04:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Flop Johnson said:
Okay, so how does researching solar cells not sound like a worthy endeavor? We know they work, they just aren't efficient enough yet. It's not like saying we want to put money into cold fusion or something - the science has been tested.



If they are worth doing industry will do it.

They aren't, by the way.  The science has been tested and found lacking.  Seriously, ask your professor or whoever how much surface area will have to be covered with solar cells in order to generate enough energy to replace fossil fuels plus nuclear.  All of Africa would be the beginning of my guess.

Just looked some shit up.  I think I have this correct.

There is 1.5 X 1014 sq M of land area on earth

We use 1.5 X 1013Watts

Not all of the landmass is suitable.  How the fuck are we ever going to get that kind of solar yield?  Not from cells.  We need to make our own suns.

Wind?  The sheer intrusiveness necessary to make a difference is mind boggling.  And what happens to the wind energy absorbed by the turbines?  Does that not impact the ecology?


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13855308 - 01/26/11 05:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Just looked some shit up.  I think I have this correct.

There is 1.5 X 1014 sq M of land area on earth

We use 1.5 X 1013Watts

Not all of the landmass is suitable.  How the fuck are we ever going to get that kind of solar yield?  Not from cells.  We need to make our own suns.




What relation do those numbers and the sentences after have?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Chespirito]
    #13855371 - 01/26/11 05:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Just looked some shit up.  I think I have this correct.

There is 1.5 X 1014 sq M of land area on earth

We use 1.5 X 1013Watts

Not all of the landmass is suitable.  How the fuck are we ever going to get that kind of solar yield?  Not from cells.  We need to make our own suns.




What relation do those numbers and the sentences after have?



:facepalm:

How much of the land mass of the earth are you going to have to cover to supply our energy use from solar cells? 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaic_array


Cover the entire Sahara twice over with solar panels.  20 million sq Km.  Aint gonna happen.  Not even close.  Ever.


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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13855393 - 01/26/11 05:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I understood your point previously, however I was noting that you pulling out random data isn't going to help your argument.  You listed total land mass, then average power expended by the world.  Ok?  How do I then calculate how much landmass is needed to power the world from those numbers? 


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: The State of The Union Address [Re: Chespirito]
    #13855436 - 01/26/11 05:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Look up the other numbers yourself?

According to what I cited your map is total bullshit.  Where did it come from?  Then there is the matter of storing all that energy and transmitting all that energy.  Solar is no solution.


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