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InvisibleEffedS
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Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. * 1
    #1385003 - 03/17/03 05:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Cracked Corn Preparation Technique:

Cracked Corn is an alternative to millet or popcorn.
It is easy to find and is about one third the cost of millet.
It can be found at Pet stores as bird feed and also at Feed stores.
In this tek we will use CC for short.

Note: Upon cooking the CC expands *approx* 2x.

1. Get the estimated amount of CC you want and put it into a large pot.
Next cover the corn with water and set the heat between "medium" and "high".
Stirring the pot often.

2. Simmer the CC 30 - 35 minutes on the stove
is enough time, however it depends on how much you are doing and how much
water/corn you are working with etc..
(with small amounts the heat may need to be adjusted lower to prevent boil over)
For large batches this time was correct.

3. Look for the corn to "change", it gets a slime coating on the outside.
CATCH THIS! Do not let it go past this point! As soon as you see the slime coat, take the heat off
and set the pot by the sink. Have a bucket or large bowl in one bin
of the sink and use the other bin of the sink as a work area.
Scoop out enough corn to fill the strainer and run COLD water over the corn THROUGHLY,
then let it drip for a sec... then it goes into the bucket.
Also you can add a percentage of vermiculite (field capacity) to this mix for a good moisture buffer.

You could go right to the jar here...

Or

Take the strained corn and transfer into a new bucket , each time filling the strainer with corn and
rinsing again. Tap it on the sink to get out as much water as possible.

Then transfer it into the new bucket/bowl.

Fill the jars half full, this will allow for easy shaking of the jars after pressure cooking.

Pressure cook for 90 minutes @ 15 PSI
Let cool to 0 PSI with gloves/mitts shake the hot jars to mix the wetter kernels with the drier ones.

Cool to room temp in a relatively sterile envioronment, and inoculate
2.5 cc of spore solution is recommended for each QT jar.
Incubate per strain specifications.

Best of luck.

This is millet, cracked corn, and whole corn.



Here are quart jars after 8 days colonization.
CC with a dash of coarse vermiculite.


Quart jars of millet after 8 days colonizaton.



The results are obvious, the CC colonizes over 3 times as fast as the millet!

Best of luck!


Edited by Effed (05/27/03 05:15 PM)


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OfflineAudi0
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1385019 - 03/17/03 05:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yep, I used horse feed that was oats and crack corn kernels. They work great. Im gonna put some popcorn in my coffee grinder tmw and see how that works. Not pulverize them but get them broken up bc like you said, cracked kernels are better than whole. Those jars look great btw.


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InvisiblePinhead
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Audi0]
    #1385131 - 03/17/03 05:56 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Yep, I used horse feed that was oats and crack corn kernels. They work great. Im gonna put some popcorn in my coffee grinder tmw and see how that works. Not pulverize them but get them broken up bc like you said, cracked kernels are better than whole. Those jars look great btw.



Thats what I use to make my corn likker outa.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1386233 - 03/18/03 12:09 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

How do you get the water content right?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1386346 - 03/18/03 01:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Looks good! Can you shake the jars or are the kernels clumped together?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1387525 - 03/18/03 10:32 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

funny, I have been using this wild bird
seed mix from home depot.

it doesn't say it or show it on the bag,
but I discovered, upon opening, that
it has a large amount of cracked corn
in it.

at first I was a little hesitant about using
it, but this seed has proven to be a fantastic
mix.

cracked corn in 2004!


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Offlineathena
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: afoaf]
    #1387623 - 03/18/03 10:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

HI,
Hey looks like a good Idea.
this would make sense as don't these particular mushrooms tend to grow under or around 'cow pattys'? And aren't many cows fed a grain diet ( in addition to hay or pasturage) that usually includes all or some corn?
I am thinking that instead of the Home Depot or or a grocery store, that one should buy at a feed coop. That would be much cheaper, especially in large quantities.
So how much water does one add, and then how long in autoclave? Same as other grains? thank you, Athena.


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Offlinecomario2
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: afoaf]
    #1387644 - 03/18/03 10:58 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

man, your avatar drives me crazy - who is she? :blush: 


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1388281 - 03/18/03 02:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Baby Hitler: How do you get the water content right?

The above post should answer your question.

zeronio: Can you shake the jars or are the kernels clumped together?

Yes the jars can be shaken.

athena: this would make sense as don't these particular mushrooms tend to grow under or around 'cow pattys'? And aren't many cows fed a grain diet ( in addition to hay or pasturage) that usually includes all or some corn?

Indeed very interesting point... Great thinking! :smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1388579 - 03/18/03 04:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

36-48 hour soak does wonders for water content.

I don't simmer any grains, just soak.


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: afoaf]
    #1388683 - 03/18/03 04:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Have you tried simmering CC before?  :smirk: ... No? Then Shhhhhhh!  :tongue:

I have seen the results from both.
Simmered CC seems to have optimum water content.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1388949 - 03/18/03 06:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

soaking is pretty much idiot proof.

plus, I think the prolonged soak times facilitate the
germination of much of the endospores present.

(edit: let's be serious )


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Edited by afoaf (03/18/03 06:35 PM)


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: afoaf]
    #1395459 - 03/20/03 02:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I just bought a 50 lb. bag of CC today for $5.00.

I'll be trying it with Oyster, and maybe some other gourmet species in the next couple of weeks.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1395699 - 03/20/03 04:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

WOW!

Thats great.
Cant wait to see your results!!  :smile:


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OfflineTheWhiteRavens
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1396293 - 03/20/03 08:41 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmmmmm ...

SooooOOoooo........ You think you have good kung-fu....Huh..... HiiieeYaaAaaa :tongue:



TWR...  :cool:
 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1396323 - 03/20/03 08:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"Jimmy Cracked Corn... ANdi DONT CARE!... Ji MMy cracked Corn and Idont care..." im sorry i couldnt resist... heh

no i care though, i wish i had colonized jars of CC. *sigh*, one day i hope to gain MUCHO experienceo like you guys.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1396361 - 03/20/03 09:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks, I was waiting for that post.  :grin:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Evolving]
    #1396411 - 03/20/03 09:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, and what I don't use to grow mushrooms I can make moonshine out of.

...using my new turkey fryer. :smile:

I have to say the CC is larger than I was expecting it to be. Larger than rye, or wheat.

Definitely smaller than popcorn though.


Edited by Baby_Hitler (03/20/03 09:41 PM)


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1398379 - 03/21/03 01:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:grin: 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1398729 - 03/21/03 04:18 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Good stuff man!
Glad to see people getting into the CC revolution!


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Evolving]
    #1399280 - 03/21/03 08:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

:smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1406516 - 03/24/03 04:38 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

now we need a test of CC next to RC - Regular Corn.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Rastafari]
    #1414435 - 03/27/03 02:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Do it!  :laugh:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1415665 - 03/27/03 11:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I picked up a bag of cracked corn.I soaked over night,rinced,and filled the jars like normal.After pressure cooking and cooling it clumped up.I tried gypsum but it did'nt help.Next i used some paper litter to break the clumps up.That worked so i saw how fast the mycelium coloinized the cracked corn,much faster then rye,millet,wheat.The next thing i tried was replacing the paper litter with popcorn.The popcorn worked just as good at breaking up the clumps,plus it has nutrients the paper does'nt.The last thing i tried was after rincing for hours i put the corn in a pillow case and hung it up like straw.After hanging for 24hours,or until the pillow case looked dry.I broke the clumps up with my hand then filled the jars.After pressure cooking and cooling the jars shook like normal grain.The point is that the corn needs to be washed a shitload and then left to dry for 24hours.Smaller jars break up on their own,but quarts needed to be mixed with something like popcorn to keep it from sticking.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Starspawn]
    #1415752 - 03/28/03 12:53 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Nice post!! Thank you.

Try some vermiculite. :smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1430324 - 04/05/03 12:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Anyone have any results?  :smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1450201 - 04/11/03 05:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:tongue:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1450423 - 04/11/03 06:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thank you! Ifuckin hate grain! GODDAMNIT I hate grain. Man I will be trying this very very soon. ADD This Shit To The Faq!!


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1473893 - 04/19/03 07:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)


cc was boiled 30 min, rinsed, and drained for an hr., nuked 9 min.(3 min at a time), then loaded into qt. jars and steamed for 90 min.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: deanofmean]
    #1476115 - 04/20/03 11:46 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks guys!

Looking good.  :smile:



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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1477489 - 04/20/03 10:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE
? HATE POP CORN POTENCY ANYONE CONF?RM ME PLEASE


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OfflineTheWhiteRavens
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: fugu]
    #1477652 - 04/20/03 11:42 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference
Why Are You Saying that ..... I See No difference





TWR.... :cool:
 

 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1477753 - 04/21/03 12:13 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Newbie Alert :tongue:


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Offlinedodder
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1486911 - 04/23/03 07:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

here is proof.. people it works really well.. here is my cousins attempts after two weeks..

the wet jars with the wet spots her threw out.. so really did grain xfers with the jar on the right



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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: dodder]
    #1487020 - 04/23/03 07:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Is it just me or does the jar on the left look contaminated?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Amanita_Dreamer]
    #1488738 - 04/24/03 10:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i'd say both left jars show signs of excessively slow growth, note how thick the mycellia has become, how it's pilling up at the edges. that's a sure sign that it's not spredding like it should. my guess is that cracked corn proly releases a bit more starch than one really wants and it's the starchy residue on the grains that is slowing growth. they really should be fully colonized at 2 weeks or very close to it.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Hippie3]
    #1490373 - 04/24/03 06:54 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well one really needs to take great care when straining the corn until all that residue is gone.

I wouldnt call 2 weeks extremely slow. Maybe not optimal but Id say 2 weeks to full colonization is pretty damn good for a first time.
You dont really get perfect jars till the 2nd - 3rd time.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1493390 - 04/25/03 03:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So Hippe youre saying starch is bad?? More rinsing is in order then after boiling ...yes?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Amanita_Dreamer]
    #1494979 - 04/26/03 02:59 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Well one really needs to take great care when straining the corn until all that residue is gone.





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OfflineTheWhiteRavens
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1495027 - 04/26/03 03:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I need to get some CC .... I can't find it in the albersons...

ahhhhh ...................................!!!

but ... WOW ... those jars up there are sick... thats some good looking mycel... mannnnnnnn...... very butiful... :wink:


hmmmmmmmm...... can't I just chop my popcorn up and make it like CC...
would it work the same do you think....?

what do you guys think....?



TWR... :cool:


Edited by TheWhiteRavens (04/26/03 03:26 AM)


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1495288 - 04/26/03 05:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Look in farm supply type stores.

It's chicken feed. I got 50 pounds for $5.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1495590 - 04/26/03 12:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Try it i a food processor/blender.  :smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1542194 - 05/12/03 05:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Any updates on those jars? :smile:
I'm interested in using CC as a substrate for some of the edible wedges I've recieved in the mail and it's a HELL of a lot cheaper than popcorn.

Let us know Effed?

-ol


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Oscuro_lobo]
    #1542416 - 05/12/03 07:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

My friend tried this with C.C, 5 times now. using different draining techniques. rinsing or draining overnight and still nothing..

It turns into like mushie corn pieces, He bought the cc from a pet feed store and Did Everything right, Pre-Boiled and all, Good prints and All.

It keeps coming back with nothing, corn turn dark and nothing.
Hes using a poly filter disks too.
What Keeps happening??? i though it was gonna be my golden friend but whats happening?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: pussycontrol]
    #1544384 - 05/13/03 08:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

over cooked.
excess starch is bad.
reduce your cooking time and results should improve.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Hippie3]
    #1549187 - 05/14/03 09:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

which cooking time you think?
>The pre cook time till the slime comes off
Or > The PC Time, hes doing for like and Hour. coo?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Oscuro_lobo]
    #1555027 - 05/16/03 10:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

My foaf spawned (to straw) those three Amazonian quarts that you saw there and these were his results..





So if you heard that corn doesnt fruit.. you heard wrong.
This tek can be a little tricky, however it pays off.

Pussycontrol: I think you need to rinse the corn better, like a few times, and as hippie said reduce the cooking time.  :smile:
Good luck.


Edited by Effed (05/16/03 10:43 PM)


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1581754 - 05/27/03 04:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

^^  :laugh:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1581782 - 05/27/03 04:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Effed, would you want to finish the compilation of your tek so we can put it to the teks section?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Anno]
    #1581836 - 05/27/03 04:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Sure.  :smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Anno]
    #1581880 - 05/27/03 05:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Okay Anno it is ready I have edited the first post.
Thanks very much.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1582051 - 05/27/03 06:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)



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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Anno]
    #1582142 - 05/27/03 06:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

When the TEK mentions watching for a "slime" coating, does it refer to water that gets starchy and murky during simmering?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Teknion]
    #1582663 - 05/27/03 10:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It refers to the corn getting a somewhat slimy coating on the outside.
Its not super critical but.. its does help.  :smile:

Good luck.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1583349 - 05/28/03 01:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Which is better? Cracked corn or popcorn?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1583413 - 05/28/03 02:03 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

either will work from what I've read


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #1585506 - 05/28/03 05:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Cracked corn is cheaper, however I have never tried popcorn.. so I cant say.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1591499 - 05/30/03 12:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Anyone have any questions they think should be added to the FAQ for this tek http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23859 ?

So far I have as questions..

Why cracked corn?
What is better cracked corn, whole corn, or popcorn?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1592132 - 05/30/03 06:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

How about the questions that were already asked and answered in this thread?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Oscuro_lobo]
    #1657338 - 06/24/03 01:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Elm oysters colonized Cracked Corn 100% in 10 days. Agrocybe aegerita is still just a little fuzzy on top, as slow as or slower than Shitake on popcorn so far.

Results are excelent. Cracked corn is the same price as straw here. $5 for 50 pounds of CC and $4 for a 40 pound bale of straw.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Teknion]
    #1657920 - 06/24/03 07:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Teknion said:
When the TEK mentions watching for a "slime" coating, does it refer to water that gets starchy and murky during simmering?




that's corn starch you're seeing, and yes, it is the same thing that gives the slimy coating on the kernels/


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Hippie3]
    #1657968 - 06/24/03 08:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

afoaf soaked a pot of cc overnight, and im wondering what should he do, as he did not cook it, should he throw it out and restart or is there something he can do, a certain amount of time he can cook it now perhaps? any help is greatly appreciated


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: switchstants]
    #1657969 - 06/24/03 08:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

oh, it was soaked slightly less than 24 hours, probably 22. if that helps. thanks again


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: switchstants]
    #1658929 - 06/24/03 06:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Great results Hitler!
Im glad youve had success with this tek. :smile:

In response to 
Poster: switchstants
Subject: Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. 

oh, it was soaked slightly less than 24 hours, probably 22. if that helps. thanks again

I have prepared jars with the soaking method and it does work, just not as good as simmering.

:stash: 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Hippie3]
    #1658946 - 06/24/03 06:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When I mine, the corn didn't get slimy so much as the water did. It got thick and murky. I just stirred in some cold water, strained it, filled the pot up again, stirred it some more, then strained, filled, stirred and strained again until the water was clear.

I wasn't sure from the instructions if the 30 minutes was supposed to start after the water started boiling, or as soon as the pot went on the stove. I took mine off less than 10 minutes after it started boiling.

Effed?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1658958 - 06/24/03 06:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Cooking times vary greatly with amount being prepared, amount of water, and the temp. of your stove.  :smile:

You can also pressure cook the corn right in the bottom of your PC @ 10 -12 psi for about 10-15 mins like you were cooking it.  :wink:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1659110 - 06/24/03 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What were the drawbacks of soaking? I may be doing up some larger quantities soon, and am thinking about just soaking in five gallon buckets.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1659375 - 06/24/03 08:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

When you cook the corn and then strain many times it removes a lot of the starch. With soaking it only removes the starch on the ouside portion of the corn. I found that soaking it just made it stick together and it didnt shake well.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1666736 - 06/27/03 08:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Anyone trying to do bulk substrate with CC?
Would be curious to find out as it seems that its damn fast with colinization.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Ivan]
    #1674674 - 06/30/03 07:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

do u need to PC it? or can u boil/steam it?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: GWAR]
    #1674706 - 06/30/03 07:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

My friends method of operation seems to be let corn soak at least 24 hours then depending on how quick you need to get things going,

1... boil for a good hour + then let cool like overnite then boil again, then PC for hour.

or

2...after soaking for 24 hours, throw into bottom of PC and bring to boil for a hour or so, then place PC lid on. Pressure will start to rise and then at about 10 ish Psi. turn off heat. Corn will because of the water and pressure, soak up alot of water and get plump and burst.

or

3... If you cant soak at least boil once then PC.

Then pour contents into a strainer then wash with tap water or spring water.

Let stand and drain for awhile. Then PC.

Seems to have worked for him..#1 and #2, especially #2

Haven't noticed any problems with to much moisture


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: SafeHaven]
    #1675246 - 06/30/03 11:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Are you talking about Cracked corn, or popcorn?

I would think if you did that with cracked corn, all you would have would be mush.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: SafeHaven]
    #1675421 - 07/01/03 12:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting. Whatever works for you.

You are making more work for yourself.  :oogle:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Effed]
    #1679403 - 07/02/03 08:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hey after reading this thread i wanted to try the cracked corn as well. Haven?t had a too good experience with whole corn (lota contams).

But this cracked thingie works really well only 4 days after innoc growth was visible and not just a little bit either. Almost ervery part of the jars has little white plucks of mycelium. Wonder how long colonisation will take. Strains are plantasia and talpalpa but tha plantasia is doing better. Will post when they are done. Thanks for the idea


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1680051 - 07/02/03 12:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry I should have explained it more, its what i do, to get basically cracked corn. By using the PC with it submersed and all the boiling in it makes the corn really break open good.

Plus I can get the corn for a like a dollar a 2# bag.

It makes alot of corn when I cook it the way I do.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: SafeHaven]
    #1680187 - 07/02/03 01:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I got 50# for $5.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: TheWhiteRavens]
    #1690095 - 07/06/03 02:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

anybody know where commonly the best prices for popcorn in bulk are?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Imorph]
    #1693200 - 07/07/03 03:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

how much vermiculite should you use?



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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1699745 - 07/09/03 03:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well I was wondering how the other grains were prepared? The exact same length of time? If so this is the reason for the different colonization rates. And since you didn't post the exact moisture content rate for each grain mix. I'm 100% sure that the CC was the closest to optium and this is why it colonized faster.

You may or may not be aware of a tek I put together a few years back called Quart Jars for Retards. Your tek is very similar to this tek and I did say it can be used with any time of grain.

CC is a great option for those who want to simmer but want to do it quicker. It's able to get to it's optium moisture content quicker because the inside of the corn is exposed and this aborb the water much quicker. Then whole grains which need to wick the moisture though it's intact hull.

Hippie is right on about the starch issue and is present in any grain I've try and I'm pretty sure Effed is saying once you see this start of this slimeness your done. Anything past the start of it is bad.

That is one of the draw backs to CC Vs whole grains. The sliminess it the only sign to watch for where whole grain you can watch for the easier to notice popped kernals.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1699859 - 07/09/03 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

which would you say is better: cracked corn or whole corn?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1699888 - 07/09/03 04:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1701426 - 07/10/03 01:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.




Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't make me waked!!!

Quote:

The results are obvious, the CC colonizes over 3 times as fast as the millet!




Well IMO you can not make a claim like this without the facts to back it up. One of the most important things in the preparation of grain spawn is getting the moisture content correct. Stamet states the optimum moisture content is between 49-54%.

So without knowing the moisture content making a claim such as the "CC colonized over 3 times as fast as the millet" is wacked!! Like I said the reason for the difference is moisture content.

Now here is how to figure out the moisture content. After you've simmered your grains weigh out 100 grams of grains. Place this grains in the oven at 250F for 3 hours. Take the dried grains and reweigh them. Take that number and minus it from 100 and you've got the accurate moisture content. Your dried grains should weigh between 46-51 grams to be in the optimum range.

And if that's all the farther the millet has colonized in 8 days I would have to say the moisture content is less then optimum.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1701445 - 07/10/03 01:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

which would you say is better: cracked corn or whole corn?




The only difference between the 2 are the rate at which they reach their optimum moisture content when simmered. CC would be quicker.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1701923 - 07/10/03 10:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

one doesnt colonize quicker than the other? or provide better results?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1702385 - 07/10/03 02:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't make me  waked!!! 




I understand what you are saying, maybe you just cant spell.


Quote:

Well IMO you can not make a claim like this without the facts to back it up. One of the most important things in the preparation of grain spawn is getting the moisture content correct. Stamet states the optimum moisture content is between 49-54%.





You have a point there. However I didnt base this TEK on Paul Stamets books, I based it on my direct experience. Maybe Ill get around to make an official experiment for you. By the way I used Stuntzu's Millet Tek for the preparation of the millet. I have found that to be the best for me.

Quote:

Now here is how to figure out the moisture content. After you've simmered your grains weigh out 100 grams of grains. Place this grains in the oven at 250F for 3 hours. Take the dried grains and reweigh them. Take that number and minus it from 100 and you've got the accurate moisture content. Your dried grains should weigh between 46-51 grams to be in the optimum range.





Thanks I have read TMC several times.  :wink:

Quote:

which would you say is better: cracked corn or whole corn?

The only difference between the 2 are the rate at which they reach their optimum moisture content when simmered. CC would be quicker.





What evidence do  you  have to support that statement?

Myself  Id say that cracked corn would  definately colonize faster. Due to the fact the the corn is more readily accessable to the mycellium. Mycellia doesnt decompose corn shells any better than your digestive system. If nothing else it is a more hearty, vigorous colonization. Have you used both of these spawns? I have, and I know for a fact that CC produces better results than whole Corn.
You can barely get the spawn out of a fully colonized CC jars where as whole corn it falls right out. 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1702401 - 07/10/03 02:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Woo hoo 10 cents a pound. so if nothing else CC is waaay cheaper than Millet.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1705675 - 07/11/03 01:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You have a point there. However I didnt base this TEK on Paul Stamets books, I based it on my direct experience.




This is my exact point Effed. Not to be mean but you don't have much experience at ALL. The reason why I say this is the millet jars at 8 days. Someone with the experience of Stamets would know that with as little colonization that something is not right. At a minimum it should have colonized 60% by day 8. If kept side by side with your CC jars. It most likely would be just as far along as the CC if both were at optimum moisture content and kept in the same climate.

Quote:

What evidence do you have to support that statement?




Hmmm... Let's see here. Most simmer recipes call for 45 minutes. Your CC call for 30-35 minutes. So you are my evidence. LOL

Quote:

Myself Id say that cracked corn would definately colonize faster. Due to the fact the the corn is more readily accessable to the mycellium. Mycellia doesnt decompose corn shells any better than your digestive system.




I though you have read TMC several time. Your statement about the shell\hull of the corn not being able to be decomposed is so far from the truth that it's not even funny. So have you cut into a spent casing of corn and found whole uncomposted corn or corn hulls? I never have and yes I've use corn and cracked corn. If you look at Appendix VI: Analyses of Materials you will find all kinds of hulls listed as usable substrates. Why is this? Well for many mushrooms seed hulls are something they feed on in the wild. Mycelium is able to decompose these things easily.

Quote:

Have you used both of these spawns? I have, and I know for a fact that CC produces better results than whole Corn.




Yes I have and I have made sure they were in the optium range of moisture content. And what I've found is that when the grain is at optimum and then kept close to optimum climate. 2 cups of substrate will fully colonize in 10-12 days from multi-spore inoculation.

Quote:

I understand what you are saying, maybe you just cant spell.




Well Effed you are right I'm not the greatest of spellers. But I don't let stop me. I am dyslexic and in a group of dyslexics I'd be the spelling Bee Champ. LOL However spelling really has nothing to do with inteligence, knowledge or experince. All of Effed I hate to break this too you but I have more then you. So I'll give you that you are a better speller. Now GROW UP!!! This IS Advance Mushroom Cultivation don't make statements without scientific data to back it up. If you don't you should expect someone to question your statement.

Especially when you borrowed from my tek that I wrote back in 2000 as NuShroomPharmerII. I was the one, to the best of my knowledge, that brought simmering grains as a way of getting the moisture content right before sterilization. I like to cook and it was a trick I learn to speed up the process of rehydration. That and the new approach to protecting the jar rather then the lid with MMFD is how I got MMMM off the ground.

At least I was scientific enough to figure out how many cups of the substrate that needed to make 14 cups hydrated. You should figure that out for your tek so that there isn't waste.

For those who are ask what's the "best". I ask for what? Cost? Availiblity? Organic Vs Non? Nutritional? And all I can say is what might be best for me may not be best for you. Experiment with all differnt kinds and find out what's best for you.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1705730 - 07/11/03 01:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> I was the one, to the best of my knowledge, that brought simmering grains as a
>way of getting the moisture content right before sterilization

Now please stay on the ground. This is a method that has been used for several decades, way before you knew about it.

Also in another post you say you "invented" the use of filter discs, and this also is something that has been used for many, many years before you even knew mushrooms can be cultivated.

So please keep it real.


As for the millet, I get colonization times of around 7 days when inoculated with mycelium, and around 10 days when inoculated multispore, so I guess something wasn?t right with Effed?s way to prepare the jars.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1706159 - 07/11/03 04:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Especially when you borrowed from my tek that I wrote back in 2000 as NuShroomPharmerII




So what if he borrowed from your tek. i dont even know if he did but if you didnt write it up for people to learn from it, then why did you? You should be happy he did (if he did, i would).

MicronMagick- you might know more than effed, me, and the next guy but you come off more egotisical than you do knowledagable. It seems as if you hold hostillity towards him for stealing some tek u wrote back in the day. You've contributed greatly to the OMC but lighten up man.

This guy is trying to do the same thing you did- write up a tek to help other people. I understand that this thread is in the "advanced" forum and he doesnt provide scientic data (yet). The fact of the matter is, this tek will work for him and others that try it. Also, im sure it will improve over the years.

Cheers to effed for giving back to the OMC  :thumbup: 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Anno]
    #1706166 - 07/11/03 04:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


> I was the one, to the best of my knowledge, that brought simmering grains as a
>way of getting the moisture content right before sterilization

Now please stay on the ground. This is a method that has been used for several decades, way before you knew about it.




Like I said best of my knowledge, as know of the book I have list it as a way to prepare grain. All list the 1:1 or some other ratio of grain to water in the jar. If you know of a book or some other publication where this method is used for mushroom cultivation please point me in that direction.

BTW Simmer grains to rehydrade grains has been around for centuries. I just had never seen it mushroom cultivation. Nor had McMan.

Quote:

Also in another post you say you "invented" the use of filter discs, and this also is something that has been used for many, many years before you even knew mushrooms can be cultivated.




Now Anno that's not what I said at ALL. I am responcible for the "way" in which a jar is protected. Before filter discs were either cut to the size of the lid in which it's trapped in the lid or was glued to the lid.

When MMFD first came availible it was the first method that treated the jar not the lid. Not only that but MMFD were the first filter discs or material that you could remove the lid without exposing the substrate to the open air and then stick the needle through. Then came your Tyvek Tek.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1706355 - 07/11/03 05:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Great tek. :smile:


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Elise]
    #1706372 - 07/11/03 05:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Im not going to dispute this anymore.
You are the best. What can I say?

As for taking from your tek thats pure bullshit!
I have never heard of or seen your tek.

Maybe you should eat some more mushrooms to kill that throbbing ego you have.

Oh yeah maybe youd like my tek better if I had a shameless plug for your filter disks in it.  :smirk:
If you want to talk about a contribution to a community...
Talk about Anno. www.fungifun.org
Contributions are free.

Some fucking vendors.  :thumbdown:
Now stay out of my thread.
Thank you. 


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1707833 - 07/12/03 04:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

>If you know of a book or some other publication where this method is
>used for mushroom cultivation please point me in that direction.


http://www.mykoweb.com/articles/cultivation.html
"Measure one jar of grain for every three jars you will prepare into a paint strainer bag until the bag is half full. Use more bags as needed, keeping in mind that you can only cook as many jars at once as you have room for in the available pressure cooker(s). Tie the bag closed with twine, place in a large pot or the pressure cooker bottom (setting the lid aside), fill with water until just covering the grain, and boil for 30 minutes. Remove into the sink and rinse for a few minutes in cool water. This will remove some of the released starch so the grain will not stick together as readily.
Let drain for a few minutes. "


Mushroom Cultivation by Peter Oei
Page 88-89:



I also know that Amycel, one of the world?s biggest spawn producers is using the pre-cooking method.
http://www.amycel.com/vendome.html

This can be seen in detail here at a different spawn producer(Click on PRODUCTION)
http://www.italspawn.com/english/home_eng.html

"? COOKING - The first stage is where the raw grain is cooked and mixed with powders ,inside large blenders ,in order to increase its moisture content as much as possible and maintain its friability at the same time. This system allows us to keep a total control on every parameter at any time.
? STERILIZATION - At the second stage of the process the grain is sterilized by following a strict temperature profile to avoid any type of contamination."


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Anno]
    #1708151 - 07/12/03 11:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the links Anno.

I don't have the book and I never really looked over at Mycoweb before. I guess I just figured you were trying to discredit me when you did your test

So then please explain this. If it's not that new why is this thread worthy of being archived as a TEK? And why did you do that test? Hmmm...

Twista,

Quote:

MicronMagick- you might know more than effed, me, and the next guy but you come off more egotisical than you do knowledagable. It seems as if you hold hostillity towards him for stealing some tek u wrote back in the day. You've contributed greatly to the OMC but lighten up man.




My hostility came from the total lack of respect from Effed.

Quote:

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.




Now the reason why Effed did this I can only guess. But I'd guess that for nine pages he felt like a king with everyone patting him on the back. Until I "a vendor" pointed out that something was wrong. And he could deal with the fact that he screwed up. To make things worse it was found by someone who can't spell.

I treat people the way they treat me. I think if you go back and read the whole coverstion you will see what I mean. He was condecending to me so I was condesending to him. The only difference is I have the inteligence, knowledge and experinces to back it up. So it looks like I'm the mean one.

Now look at our exchange. You have been totally respectful and I have treated you in the same manner. You see I just mirror the way people treat me.

Effed,

Sorry I pointed out that there was something wrong with your millet jars. I did think this site was about stopping the spread of disinformation. I now clearly see I was wrong. It's a clubhouse for spreading disinformation and postwhores should be worshiped!!!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1708228 - 07/12/03 12:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> So then please explain this. If it's not that new why is this thread
>worthy of being archived as a TEK? And why did you do that test?
>Hmmm...

I thought that was pretty obvious:

In no source you could find exact relations between the simmering time and the final water content of the grain, and I established it for rye grain in my test.
mmmkay?


> I guess I just figured you were trying to discredit me when you did your test

That?s your problem. Not everybody gives a f*** about you.
The world isn?t build around you. Even if you think it is.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1708988 - 07/12/03 06:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Listen man. Im sorry I was "disrespectful".

The point I want to make now is that this tek isnt about my millet jars, its about CC! So if you leave the millet out of the equation.. what do we have?

An alternative substrate that is cheaper and produces equal or better results than other grains.

Quote:

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.





I said that because I honestly thought you were "effed" when you typed it. I didnt mean to insult you. There is a spell checker you know.


Quote:

Effed,

Sorry I pointed out that there was something wrong with your millet jars. I did think this site was about stopping the spread of disinformation. I now clearly see I was wrong. It's a clubhouse for spreading disinformation and postwhores should be worshiped!!!





disinformation: 1 entry found for disinformation.
dis?in?for?ma?tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-nfr-mshn)
n.
Deliberately misleading information announced publicly or leaked by a government or especially by an intelligence agency in order to influence public opinion or the government in another nation: ?He would be the unconscious channel for a piece of disinformation aimed at another country's intelligence service? (Ken Follett).
Dissemination of such misleading information.

I think the word you were looking for is misinformation:

3 entries found for misinformation.
mis?in?form ( P ) Pronunciation Key (msn-f?rm)
tr.v. mis?in?formed, mis?in?form?ing, mis?in?forms
To provide with incorrect information.
misinformation

\Mis*in`for*ma"tion\, n. Untrue or incorrect information.

misinformation

n : information that is incorrect




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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1709211 - 07/12/03 07:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yeah - I gotta try it.
I got chickens anyway (hey I don't eat 'em! They got names!) and I know what you mean about the slime stage because I've cooked a lot of corn for hogs and some for nunyan (country term for "nunyan you bizzness") and yeah, there are always mushrooms coming up in the corners of the feed shed just not the right kind..... :cool:


--------------------
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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1711194 - 07/13/03 01:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Listen man. Im sorry I was "disrespectful".




Appology accepted.

Quote:

I think the word you were looking for is misinformation:




Nope Disinformation was the word I was looking for and it was meant as sarcasism. Someone with 4000+ posts in a year has made a trip to OTD and I'm sure you've must have read at least one thread where the shroomery is a DEA or FBI front. I was playing off of those silly OTD threads. I figured the "postwhore" comment would have tied it all in.


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Anno]
    #1711364 - 07/13/03 02:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I thought that was pretty obvious:

In no source you could find exact relations between the simmering time and the final water content of the grain, and I established it for rye grain in my test. mmmkay?




Atcually in the "Quart Jars for Retards v1.0" which used to be on the shroomery forums until the PF Bust when I had you delete it.

Quote:

> I guess I just figured you were trying to discredit me when you did your test

That?s your problem. Not everybody gives a f*** about you.
The world isn?t build around you. Even if you think it is.




Hmm Too bad you had to resort to swearing.

Now I have never made any claims that the world evolves around me. I'm not that fat. lol However I do seem to be an outlet for your negitivity. Which is fine with me because I have thick skin. However if you take a look at threads where we cross paths I think you'll find that you're a bigger troll to me then CaptianMaxMushroom ever was. So as I see Anno I hate to break this to you but you are NOT the world.

For the life of me Anno I can not figure out why you can show me the respect of being civil. You always have to be condesending. Yet I know what the f*** I'm talking about. Seriously Anno, Baby Hitler, zeronio, Evoloving and Alien all had green names so they are Mods and NOT a one of you caught that the Millet wasn't prepared properly.

No disprespect meant to Effed but those comparison pictures are what made this thread some 9 pages long before I pointed out. Show some respect for my knowledge and keen eye.

I left room for the fact that there may be a tek out there that I wasn't aware. Yet you come of all high and mighty to correct my loose statement. With claims of "This is a method that has been used for several decades, way before you knew about it." Well me Grandma and Grandpa were farmers and this how the rehdrated grains for use. Now I'm closer to 40 then I am 30 so I have known about this for a long as time and is the only way I've ever used. Or you twist my words.

Effed,

Quote:

Oh yeah maybe youd like my tek better if I had a shameless plug for your filter disks in it.
If you want to talk about a contribution to a community...
Talk about Anno. www.fungifun.org
Contributions are free.

Some fucking vendors.
Now stay out of my thread.
Thank you.




No don't need need a plug but thanks for the offer and it's not that I don't like your tek it's that I'd like to see accurate info and when comparing things making sure all things are equal.

As for you comments about Anno and FungiFun. I would like to point out to you that I was the Founder of THE OMC and wrote all of the code for the forums myself so that someone could just by the same thing to learn how to hack into the forum.

Now vendors aren't evil people after all we do sponsor this place which pays the monthlies as well as software and server upgrades.

So I guess I could have retorted

Some members :thumbdown:
Have you ever sent the admin of this site any money that wasn't connected to a raffle?  :thumbdown:
Then say out of my forums!  :thumbdown:

But I won't. Instead I'll ask you too look at my remarks as constructive critism that will steer you in completing a solid tek with valid comparision and correct measurements. If any? You are correct in the fact that too those who price is a big deal CC is a great alternative.

Now this is the last time I'm going to respond to anything off topic!!! Out of respect for Effed.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1711493 - 07/13/03 03:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

OK, well is CC the same as deer corn that is used for deer feeders? If so this stuff is real cheap and available at the feed stores in big ass bags as well. I might get a bag if no one has seen it. It seems to be in a bit bigger pieces than CC maybe.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: shakta]
    #1711571 - 07/13/03 03:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah is the same - "deer" "field" "hog" corn all the same...and I guess I should have said this before but the craked corn guy is probably right if you want most inoculation points and available nutrition. You do have to crack that hull at the least, but I believe you would be best off just buying cracked corn. I suggest that slime coat is oil rising and that's just extra food to them.
Can't you add sterilised corn meal mixed with a little corn or peanut oil to your straw before inoculating? I have heard that but have not gotten around to trying it yet, but either way corn they dig...


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OfflineKafkaPie
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1715009 - 07/14/03 06:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

wow... amazed to see afoaf's CC quart jar 100% in only 7 days.

his first atempt, sorta sad, he only did 2 jars, one hasnt shown any signs.


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Invisiblepussycontrol
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: KafkaPie]
    #1716868 - 07/15/03 01:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Effed>

Pussycontrol: I think you need to rinse the corn better, like a few times, and as hippie said reduce the cooking time.
Good luck

whats a time and psi you think to cook for me then?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: pussycontrol]
    #1717264 - 07/15/03 04:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

how long would one steam 1/2 pint jars of cc that had been simmered?
peace
:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom


--------------------
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:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1717741 - 07/15/03 10:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

anybody know a good place to get a large pressure cooker for cheep?


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1718219 - 07/15/03 03:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Try garage sales - if the seal is in good shape.
You can buy them online all over - but $100
http://www.goodmans.net/product_information.asp?number=MI-92022&back=yes&dept=32&last=15


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: KafkaPie]
    #1720914 - 07/16/03 10:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

KafkaPie said:
wow... amazed to see afoaf's CC quart jar 100% in only 7 days.

his first atempt, sorta sad, he only did 2 jars, one hasnt shown any signs.




that's not all that extraordinary,
i've seen popcorn finish in 7 days. just did 4 qts of popcorn with ralphster's new african strain, on the 9th and they were mostly done yesterday.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Hippie3]
    #1722364 - 07/16/03 07:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Whats with all you vendors and "pros"?
Come in here to hate on my tek!
Please just stay the fuck out if you dont have anything positive to contribute.

Hippie.. I kept my mouth shut before with your negative comments, but now you are being a jackass. I keep to myself and try to help out..
If 7 days isnt impressive for cracked corn, it isnt impressive for popcorn.
Are you jealous becuase this tek has comparable results to your popcorn tek? Honestly whats your deal?

Kafka I am impressed with your results, especially for the first time.
Well done!


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1722697 - 07/16/03 09:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

so how about them 1/2 pints? how long should i steam them? as per above question.

all these arguments, wtf? very counter productive

peace
:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Offline284_27
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1722762 - 07/16/03 09:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

kuddos effed


--------------------
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Fly high and I will meet you there .
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OfflineKafkaPie
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: 284_27]
    #1722792 - 07/16/03 09:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Much kudos and thanks Effed :-)

I loaded up a couple spawn bags this past weekend, 2 WBS and 1 CC, the WBS I soaked 24hrs, and the one CC, simmered - I think the only real change was I boiled 2 cups of CC in 10-15 quarts of water, which helped serverly cut back on starch and slime... plan to innoculate with some edibles before the summer is up..

(oh, that one foaf - his second jar - it was just slow - its up to about 10%, just a slacker).


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Invisibledeanofmean
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1722835 - 07/16/03 09:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

why 1/2 pints ?
are you wanting to fruit it as a cake .
if so, i recommend using pf tec, and replace brf with corn flour .
for spawning, however i don't think just steaming would do it .
but, if you don't have a pressure cooker, you can use a combination of microwave and steamer, or fractional strerilzation .

paid's micro-steam tec

fractional sterilization


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: ZippoZ]
    #1723326 - 07/17/03 12:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

so how about them 1/2 pints? how long should i steam them? as per above question.

all these arguments, wtf? very counter productive





I agree very valid point, but I do have to defend the newbs ya know. :wink:
As I AM a newbie too!

Id say simmer them and steaming is worth a try..

Experimentation is "where its @".
Which is also what this post is about.
I bought CC thinking "WOW thats cheap, I bet it would work".
If you have an idea, go for it!
There is always more to learn and new ground to break with mycology.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: KafkaPie]
    #1723334 - 07/17/03 12:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Kafka: Id like to see how your millet, compares to the CC!
Flush wise also. Someone needs to post some CC flushes!


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1723374 - 07/17/03 12:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Amazonian strain on cracked corn spawned to straw cased with verm/coir.



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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1723477 - 07/17/03 01:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh that's purty! I gotta try that!


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: curenado]
    #1724266 - 07/17/03 10:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

does anybody know the best size of a case to use when casing? and how deep? like 2" 3" or what


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1726955 - 07/18/03 04:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i ask about the 1/2 pints because they are smaller and i prefer working with smaller batch sizes, plus its all i have. i see it as if you have 3 contams going into your jars would you rather have 3 1 qt jars, or 6 1/2qt jars? any other sugestions on how to prevent water loss while steaming?>


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1729054 - 07/19/03 12:42 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The picture is 3 inch deep substrate, cased with a 1/2 - 3/4 inch casing layer.

zippoz: Go ahead and try the 1/2 pints. It will be cool to see how they turn out. I have birthed 1/2 pint CC cakes once and they did pretty well.
They took a while to fruit. I would case them.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1729072 - 07/19/03 12:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have gotten fine enough fruit, though not much, out of half pint wides w/ cased rye grain before.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1760753 - 07/29/03 09:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Question for you Effed. When simmering the CC should the simmering be stopped as soon as the water starts showing signs of starch being released (getting thick and slimey)? Or would it be better to remove the water and refill with fresh water and repeat the process until the water is pretty clean(no more starch being released)? I tried the CC once and I have no growth at all. I also did some rye at the same time with no growth. Spores are from the same source so I am thinking that's the problem.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Traveler311]
    #1762637 - 07/30/03 02:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

here's an idea.
try hominy instead.
you can use it straight from the can,
no simmering, no repeating processes,
just open a can and drain then dump it into your jars and steam it.
you're done.


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OfflineTraveler311
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Hippie3]
    #1763489 - 07/30/03 06:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hip, I have no problem giving the hominy a shot but the jars I have now are pissing me off. Also I bought a 50# bag of CC so I would like to get it working if I can. I will be trying the hominy soon though.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Traveler311]
    #1770565 - 08/01/03 07:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It sounds like you arent using enough water in the pot possibly.
Once you see the "slime" remove it from the stove and begin to rinse and strain it. Rinse it until you cant see the starch running off and the water is mostly clear.

Hope that helps. PM me for other questions.


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Offlineresin
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1794100 - 08/09/03 12:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You said "You can go right to the jar here or" And then basically explain what you just did over again with an addition to pressure cooking instructions. Why did you repeat yourself? Or can you repeat the rinse/strain? Does CC have the same foolproof water content like popcorn? I mean can I make my jars too wet/dry using your method? Thanks effed, Good tek


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: resin]
    #1794958 - 08/09/03 11:37 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You can repeat the steps to remove more starch.

Quote:

Does CC have the same foolproof water content like popcorn? I mean can I make my jars too wet/dry using your method? Thanks effed, Good tek




Its relatively foolproof, with simmering it makes the corn just right.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1893689 - 09/08/03 12:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

This tech is working very well for me as originally described. I do rinse one time and I do add vermiculite. Really, much better than rye.
Great Tech Dude! ALL my little 'ol Hillbillies LOVE you and say thanks!
Dr. Buchanan


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: curenado]
    #2639769 - 05/05/04 02:49 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Bumped. Because it rocks


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Oscuro_lobo]
    #2640619 - 05/05/04 07:50 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Glad to see this is still being used.. :smile:

Care to share any resluts or experiences?  :smile:


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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #2644466 - 05/06/04 08:41 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Nice tek effed. :thumbup:

Came across this article that is quite interesting and fits in nicely I think.


CORNWALL BRIDGE, Connecticut ~ Here in southern New England the corn is already waist high and growing so avidly you can almost hear the creak of stalk and leaf as the plants stretch toward the sun. The ears of sweet corn are just starting to show up on local farm stands, inaugurating one of the ceremonies of an American summer. These days the nation's nearly 80 million-acre field of corn rolls across the countryside like a second great lawn, but this wholesome, all-American image obscures a decidedly more dubious reality.

Like the tulip, the apple and the potato, zea mays (the botanical name for both sweet and feed corn) has evolved with humans over the past 10,000 years or so in the great dance of species we call domestication. The plant gratifies human needs, in exchange for which humans expand the plant's habitat, moving its genes all over the world and remaking the land (clearing trees, plowing the ground, protecting it from its enemies) so it might thrive.

Corn, by making itself tasty and nutritious, got itself noticed by Christopher Columbus, who helped expand its range from the New World to Europe and beyond. Today corn is the world's most widely planted cereal crop. But nowhere have humans done quite as much to advance the interests of this plant as in North America, where zea mays has insinuated itself into our landscape, our food system ~ and our federal budget.

One need look no further than the $190 billion farm bill President Bush signed last month to wonder whose interests are really being served here. Under the 10-year program, taxpayers will pay farmers $4 billion a year to grow ever more corn, this despite the fact that we struggle to get rid of the surplus the plant already produces. The average bushel of corn (56 pounds) sells for about $2 today; it costs farmers more than $3 to grow it. But rather than design a program that would encourage farmers to plant less corn ~ which would have the benefit of lifting the price farmers receive for it ~ Congress has decided instead to subsidize corn by the bushel, thereby insuring that zea mays dominion over its 125,000-square mile American habitat will go unchallenged.

At first blush this subsidy might look like a handout for farmers, but really it's a form of welfare for the plant itself ~ and for all those economic interests that profit from its overproduction: the processors, factory farms, and the soft drink and snack makers that rely on cheap corn. For zea mays has triumphed by making itself indispensable not to farmers (whom it is swiftly and surely bankrupting) but to the Archer Daniels Midlands, Tysons and Coca-Colas of the world.

Our entire food supply has undergone a process of "cornification" in recent years, without our even noticing it. That's because, unlike in Mexico, where a corn-based diet has been the norm for centuries, in the United States most of the corn we consume is invisible, having been heavily processed or passed through food animals before it reaches us. Most of the animals we eat (chickens, pigs and cows) today subsist on a diet of corn, regardless of whether it is good for them. In the case of beef cattle, which evolved to eat grass, a corn diet wreaks havoc on their digestive system, making it necessary to feed them antibiotics to stave off illness and infection. Even farm-raised salmon are being bred to tolerate corn ~ not a food their evolution has prepared them for. Why feed fish corn? Because it's the cheapest thing you can feed any animal, thanks to federal subsidies. But even with more than half of the 10 billion bushels of corn produced annually being fed to animals, there is plenty left over. So companies like A.D.M., Cargill and ConAgra have figured ingenious new ways to dispose of it, turning it into everything from ethanol to Vitamin C and biodegradable plastics.

By far the best strategy for keeping zea mays in business has been the development of high-fructose corn syrup, which has all but pushed sugar aside. Since the 1980's, most soft drink manufacturers have switched from sugar to corn sweeteners, as have most snack makers. Nearly 10 percent of the calories Americans consume now come from corn sweeteners; the figure is 20 percent for many children. Add to that all the corn-based animal protein (corn-fed beef, chicken and pork) and the corn qua corn (chips, muffins, sweet corn) and you have a plant that has become one of nature's greatest success stories, by turning us (along with several other equally unwitting species) into an expanding race of corn eaters.

So why begrudge corn its phenomenal success? Isn't this the way domestication is supposed to work?

The problem in corn's case is that we're sacrificing the health of both our bodies and the environment by growing and eating so much of it. Though we're only beginning to understand what our cornified food system is doing to our health, there's cause for concern. It's probably no coincidence that the wholesale switch to corn sweeteners in the 1980's marks the beginning of the epidemic of obesity and Type 2 diabetes in this country. Sweetness became so cheap that soft drink makers, rather than lower their prices, super-sized their serving portions and marketing budgets. Thousands of new sweetened snack foods hit the market, and the amount of fructose in our diets soared.

This would be bad enough for the American waistline, but there's also preliminary research suggesting that high-fructose corn syrup is metabolized differently than other sugars, making it potentially more harmful. A recent study at the University of Minnesota found that a diet high in fructose (as compared to glucose) elevates triglyceride levels in men shortly after eating, a phenomenon that has been linked to an increased risk of obesity and heart disease. Little is known about the health effects of eating animals that have themselves eaten so much corn, but in the case of cattle, researchers have found that corn-fed beef is higher in saturated fats than grass-fed beef.

We know a lot more about what 80 million acres of corn is doing to the health of our environment: serious and lasting damage. Modern corn hybrids are the greediest of plants, demanding more nitrogen fertilizer than any other crop. Corn requires more pesticide than any other food crop. Runoff from these chemicals finds its way into the groundwater and, in the Midwestern corn belt, into the Mississippi River, which carries it to the Gulf of Mexico, where it has already killed off marine life in a 12,000 square mile area.

To produce the chemicals we apply to our cornfields takes vast amounts of oil and natural gas. (Nitrogen fertilizer is made from natural gas, pesticides from oil.) America's corn crop might look like a sustainable, solar-powered system for producing food, but it is actually a huge, inefficient, polluting machine that guzzles fossil fuel ~ a half a gallon of it for every bushel.

So it seems corn has indeed become king. We have given it more of our land than any other plant, an area more than twice the size of New York State. To keep it well fed and safe from predators we douse it with chemicals that poison our water and deepen our dependence on foreign oil. And then in order to dispose of all the corn this cracked system has produced, we eat it as fast as we can in as many ways as we can ~ turning the fat of the land into, well, fat. One has to wonder whether corn hasn't at last succeeded in domesticating us.


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InvisibleLallafa
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: fugu]
    #2645242 - 05/06/04 01:51 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

some of the best cubes ive ate were from corn, although not cracked, i reckon.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #2645689 - 05/06/04 03:31 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Corn, by making itself tasty and nutritious, got itself noticed by Christopher Columbus




bullshit. Corn didn't naturally evolve, it was selectivly bred by native Americans over thousands of years from teosinte. It is not a naturally occuring plant at all.


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Offlinepuzzlerok
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2648389 - 05/07/04 12:42 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)



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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2649014 - 05/07/04 03:53 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

Corn, by making itself tasty and nutritious, got itself noticed by Christopher Columbus




bullshit. Corn didn't naturally evolve, it was selectivly bred by native Americans over thousands of years from teosinte. It is not a naturally occuring plant at all.




like the tulip, the apple and the potato, zea mays (the botanical name for both sweet and feed corn) has evolved with humans over the past 10,000 years or so in the great dance of species we call domestication.

Corn, by making itself tasty and nutritious, got itself noticed by Christopher Columbus, who helped expand its range from the New World to Europe and beyond.


Of coarse it's naturally occuring, to evolve is a natural process. And whether or not it was columbus who introduced it to europe from the americas makes no difference but the statement holds that it was already used within the process of domestication.
The real point here is the case of over-production I think.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #2649044 - 05/07/04 04:21 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Roger_irrelevant said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:

Corn, by making itself tasty and nutritious, got itself noticed by Christopher Columbus




bullshit. Corn didn't naturally evolve, it was selectivly bred by native Americans over thousands of years from teosinte. It is not a naturally occuring plant at all.




like the tulip, the apple and the potato, zea mays (the botanical name for both sweet and feed corn) has evolved with humans over the past 10,000 years or so in the great dance of species we call domestication.

Corn, by making itself tasty and nutritious, got itself noticed by Christopher Columbus, who helped expand its range from the New World to Europe and beyond.

Of coarse it's naturally occuring, to evolve is a natural process. And whether or not it was columbus who introduced it to europe from the americas makes no difference but the statement holds that it was already used within the process of domestication.
The real point here is the case of over-production I think.




*evolved b/c of human intervention


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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: ]
    #2649238 - 05/07/04 08:15 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Would kibbled maize be the same as cracked corn?


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OfflineRoger_irrelevant
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Roger_irrelevant]
    #2649243 - 05/07/04 08:19 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ok i just found this

Quote:

Maize grain kibbled (or Kibbled corn or Corn, kibbled) (IFN 4-02-866)
consists of the dry product obtained by cooking cracked corn under steam pressure and extruding from an expeller or other mechanical pressure device.





from this site http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/feebet/sched4/class4e.shtml


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OfflinePugslee_Atoms420
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #3020783 - 08/19/04 12:07 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Has anyone used cracked corn with a dose of coarse ground coffee beans; or caffeine in any form?


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Substrates

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