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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1699888 - 07/09/03 04:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1701426 - 07/10/03 01:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.




Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't make me waked!!!

Quote:

The results are obvious, the CC colonizes over 3 times as fast as the millet!




Well IMO you can not make a claim like this without the facts to back it up. One of the most important things in the preparation of grain spawn is getting the moisture content correct. Stamet states the optimum moisture content is between 49-54%.

So without knowing the moisture content making a claim such as the "CC colonized over 3 times as fast as the millet" is wacked!! Like I said the reason for the difference is moisture content.

Now here is how to figure out the moisture content. After you've simmered your grains weigh out 100 grams of grains. Place this grains in the oven at 250F for 3 hours. Take the dried grains and reweigh them. Take that number and minus it from 100 and you've got the accurate moisture content. Your dried grains should weigh between 46-51 grams to be in the optimum range.

And if that's all the farther the millet has colonized in 8 days I would have to say the moisture content is less then optimum.


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: crazycanadian]
    #1701445 - 07/10/03 01:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

which would you say is better: cracked corn or whole corn?




The only difference between the 2 are the rate at which they reach their optimum moisture content when simmered. CC would be quicker.


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Offlinecrazycanadian
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1701923 - 07/10/03 10:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

one doesnt colonize quicker than the other? or provide better results?


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1702385 - 07/10/03 02:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't make me  waked!!! 




I understand what you are saying, maybe you just cant spell.


Quote:

Well IMO you can not make a claim like this without the facts to back it up. One of the most important things in the preparation of grain spawn is getting the moisture content correct. Stamet states the optimum moisture content is between 49-54%.





You have a point there. However I didnt base this TEK on Paul Stamets books, I based it on my direct experience. Maybe Ill get around to make an official experiment for you. By the way I used Stuntzu's Millet Tek for the preparation of the millet. I have found that to be the best for me.

Quote:

Now here is how to figure out the moisture content. After you've simmered your grains weigh out 100 grams of grains. Place this grains in the oven at 250F for 3 hours. Take the dried grains and reweigh them. Take that number and minus it from 100 and you've got the accurate moisture content. Your dried grains should weigh between 46-51 grams to be in the optimum range.





Thanks I have read TMC several times.  :wink:

Quote:

which would you say is better: cracked corn or whole corn?

The only difference between the 2 are the rate at which they reach their optimum moisture content when simmered. CC would be quicker.





What evidence do  you  have to support that statement?

Myself  Id say that cracked corn would  definately colonize faster. Due to the fact the the corn is more readily accessable to the mycellium. Mycellia doesnt decompose corn shells any better than your digestive system. If nothing else it is a more hearty, vigorous colonization. Have you used both of these spawns? I have, and I know for a fact that CC produces better results than whole Corn.
You can barely get the spawn out of a fully colonized CC jars where as whole corn it falls right out. 


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate Preparation. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1702401 - 07/10/03 02:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Woo hoo 10 cents a pound. so if nothing else CC is waaay cheaper than Millet.


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1705675 - 07/11/03 01:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You have a point there. However I didnt base this TEK on Paul Stamets books, I based it on my direct experience.




This is my exact point Effed. Not to be mean but you don't have much experience at ALL. The reason why I say this is the millet jars at 8 days. Someone with the experience of Stamets would know that with as little colonization that something is not right. At a minimum it should have colonized 60% by day 8. If kept side by side with your CC jars. It most likely would be just as far along as the CC if both were at optimum moisture content and kept in the same climate.

Quote:

What evidence do you have to support that statement?




Hmmm... Let's see here. Most simmer recipes call for 45 minutes. Your CC call for 30-35 minutes. So you are my evidence. LOL

Quote:

Myself Id say that cracked corn would definately colonize faster. Due to the fact the the corn is more readily accessable to the mycellium. Mycellia doesnt decompose corn shells any better than your digestive system.




I though you have read TMC several time. Your statement about the shell\hull of the corn not being able to be decomposed is so far from the truth that it's not even funny. So have you cut into a spent casing of corn and found whole uncomposted corn or corn hulls? I never have and yes I've use corn and cracked corn. If you look at Appendix VI: Analyses of Materials you will find all kinds of hulls listed as usable substrates. Why is this? Well for many mushrooms seed hulls are something they feed on in the wild. Mycelium is able to decompose these things easily.

Quote:

Have you used both of these spawns? I have, and I know for a fact that CC produces better results than whole Corn.




Yes I have and I have made sure they were in the optium range of moisture content. And what I've found is that when the grain is at optimum and then kept close to optimum climate. 2 cups of substrate will fully colonize in 10-12 days from multi-spore inoculation.

Quote:

I understand what you are saying, maybe you just cant spell.




Well Effed you are right I'm not the greatest of spellers. But I don't let stop me. I am dyslexic and in a group of dyslexics I'd be the spelling Bee Champ. LOL However spelling really has nothing to do with inteligence, knowledge or experince. All of Effed I hate to break this too you but I have more then you. So I'll give you that you are a better speller. Now GROW UP!!! This IS Advance Mushroom Cultivation don't make statements without scientific data to back it up. If you don't you should expect someone to question your statement.

Especially when you borrowed from my tek that I wrote back in 2000 as NuShroomPharmerII. I was the one, to the best of my knowledge, that brought simmering grains as a way of getting the moisture content right before sterilization. I like to cook and it was a trick I learn to speed up the process of rehydration. That and the new approach to protecting the jar rather then the lid with MMFD is how I got MMMM off the ground.

At least I was scientific enough to figure out how many cups of the substrate that needed to make 14 cups hydrated. You should figure that out for your tek so that there isn't waste.

For those who are ask what's the "best". I ask for what? Cost? Availiblity? Organic Vs Non? Nutritional? And all I can say is what might be best for me may not be best for you. Experiment with all differnt kinds and find out what's best for you.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1705730 - 07/11/03 01:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> I was the one, to the best of my knowledge, that brought simmering grains as a
>way of getting the moisture content right before sterilization

Now please stay on the ground. This is a method that has been used for several decades, way before you knew about it.

Also in another post you say you "invented" the use of filter discs, and this also is something that has been used for many, many years before you even knew mushrooms can be cultivated.

So please keep it real.


As for the millet, I get colonization times of around 7 days when inoculated with mycelium, and around 10 days when inoculated multispore, so I guess something wasn?t right with Effed?s way to prepare the jars.


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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1706159 - 07/11/03 04:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Especially when you borrowed from my tek that I wrote back in 2000 as NuShroomPharmerII




So what if he borrowed from your tek. i dont even know if he did but if you didnt write it up for people to learn from it, then why did you? You should be happy he did (if he did, i would).

MicronMagick- you might know more than effed, me, and the next guy but you come off more egotisical than you do knowledagable. It seems as if you hold hostillity towards him for stealing some tek u wrote back in the day. You've contributed greatly to the OMC but lighten up man.

This guy is trying to do the same thing you did- write up a tek to help other people. I understand that this thread is in the "advanced" forum and he doesnt provide scientic data (yet). The fact of the matter is, this tek will work for him and others that try it. Also, im sure it will improve over the years.

Cheers to effed for giving back to the OMC  :thumbup: 


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Anno]
    #1706166 - 07/11/03 04:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


> I was the one, to the best of my knowledge, that brought simmering grains as a
>way of getting the moisture content right before sterilization

Now please stay on the ground. This is a method that has been used for several decades, way before you knew about it.




Like I said best of my knowledge, as know of the book I have list it as a way to prepare grain. All list the 1:1 or some other ratio of grain to water in the jar. If you know of a book or some other publication where this method is used for mushroom cultivation please point me in that direction.

BTW Simmer grains to rehydrade grains has been around for centuries. I just had never seen it mushroom cultivation. Nor had McMan.

Quote:

Also in another post you say you "invented" the use of filter discs, and this also is something that has been used for many, many years before you even knew mushrooms can be cultivated.




Now Anno that's not what I said at ALL. I am responcible for the "way" in which a jar is protected. Before filter discs were either cut to the size of the lid in which it's trapped in the lid or was glued to the lid.

When MMFD first came availible it was the first method that treated the jar not the lid. Not only that but MMFD were the first filter discs or material that you could remove the lid without exposing the substrate to the open air and then stick the needle through. Then came your Tyvek Tek.


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InvisibleElise
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1706355 - 07/11/03 05:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Great tek. :smile:


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Elise]
    #1706372 - 07/11/03 05:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Im not going to dispute this anymore.
You are the best. What can I say?

As for taking from your tek thats pure bullshit!
I have never heard of or seen your tek.

Maybe you should eat some more mushrooms to kill that throbbing ego you have.

Oh yeah maybe youd like my tek better if I had a shameless plug for your filter disks in it.  :smirk:
If you want to talk about a contribution to a community...
Talk about Anno. www.fungifun.org
Contributions are free.

Some fucking vendors.  :thumbdown:
Now stay out of my thread.
Thank you. 


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1707833 - 07/12/03 04:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

>If you know of a book or some other publication where this method is
>used for mushroom cultivation please point me in that direction.


http://www.mykoweb.com/articles/cultivation.html
"Measure one jar of grain for every three jars you will prepare into a paint strainer bag until the bag is half full. Use more bags as needed, keeping in mind that you can only cook as many jars at once as you have room for in the available pressure cooker(s). Tie the bag closed with twine, place in a large pot or the pressure cooker bottom (setting the lid aside), fill with water until just covering the grain, and boil for 30 minutes. Remove into the sink and rinse for a few minutes in cool water. This will remove some of the released starch so the grain will not stick together as readily.
Let drain for a few minutes. "


Mushroom Cultivation by Peter Oei
Page 88-89:



I also know that Amycel, one of the world?s biggest spawn producers is using the pre-cooking method.
http://www.amycel.com/vendome.html

This can be seen in detail here at a different spawn producer(Click on PRODUCTION)
http://www.italspawn.com/english/home_eng.html

"? COOKING - The first stage is where the raw grain is cooked and mixed with powders ,inside large blenders ,in order to increase its moisture content as much as possible and maintain its friability at the same time. This system allows us to keep a total control on every parameter at any time.
? STERILIZATION - At the second stage of the process the grain is sterilized by following a strict temperature profile to avoid any type of contamination."


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Anno]
    #1708151 - 07/12/03 11:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the links Anno.

I don't have the book and I never really looked over at Mycoweb before. I guess I just figured you were trying to discredit me when you did your test

So then please explain this. If it's not that new why is this thread worthy of being archived as a TEK? And why did you do that test? Hmmm...

Twista,

Quote:

MicronMagick- you might know more than effed, me, and the next guy but you come off more egotisical than you do knowledagable. It seems as if you hold hostillity towards him for stealing some tek u wrote back in the day. You've contributed greatly to the OMC but lighten up man.




My hostility came from the total lack of respect from Effed.

Quote:

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.




Now the reason why Effed did this I can only guess. But I'd guess that for nine pages he felt like a king with everyone patting him on the back. Until I "a vendor" pointed out that something was wrong. And he could deal with the fact that he screwed up. To make things worse it was found by someone who can't spell.

I treat people the way they treat me. I think if you go back and read the whole coverstion you will see what I mean. He was condecending to me so I was condesending to him. The only difference is I have the inteligence, knowledge and experinces to back it up. So it looks like I'm the mean one.

Now look at our exchange. You have been totally respectful and I have treated you in the same manner. You see I just mirror the way people treat me.

Effed,

Sorry I pointed out that there was something wrong with your millet jars. I did think this site was about stopping the spread of disinformation. I now clearly see I was wrong. It's a clubhouse for spreading disinformation and postwhores should be worshiped!!!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1708228 - 07/12/03 12:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> So then please explain this. If it's not that new why is this thread
>worthy of being archived as a TEK? And why did you do that test?
>Hmmm...

I thought that was pretty obvious:

In no source you could find exact relations between the simmering time and the final water content of the grain, and I established it for rye grain in my test.
mmmkay?


> I guess I just figured you were trying to discredit me when you did your test

That?s your problem. Not everybody gives a f*** about you.
The world isn?t build around you. Even if you think it is.


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InvisibleEffedS
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1708988 - 07/12/03 06:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Listen man. Im sorry I was "disrespectful".

The point I want to make now is that this tek isnt about my millet jars, its about CC! So if you leave the millet out of the equation.. what do we have?

An alternative substrate that is cheaper and produces equal or better results than other grains.

Quote:

Id reply to that but it appears you were wacked when you typed it.





I said that because I honestly thought you were "effed" when you typed it. I didnt mean to insult you. There is a spell checker you know.


Quote:

Effed,

Sorry I pointed out that there was something wrong with your millet jars. I did think this site was about stopping the spread of disinformation. I now clearly see I was wrong. It's a clubhouse for spreading disinformation and postwhores should be worshiped!!!





disinformation: 1 entry found for disinformation.
dis?in?for?ma?tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ds-nfr-mshn)
n.
Deliberately misleading information announced publicly or leaked by a government or especially by an intelligence agency in order to influence public opinion or the government in another nation: ?He would be the unconscious channel for a piece of disinformation aimed at another country's intelligence service? (Ken Follett).
Dissemination of such misleading information.

I think the word you were looking for is misinformation:

3 entries found for misinformation.
mis?in?form ( P ) Pronunciation Key (msn-f?rm)
tr.v. mis?in?formed, mis?in?form?ing, mis?in?forms
To provide with incorrect information.
misinformation

\Mis*in`for*ma"tion\, n. Untrue or incorrect information.

misinformation

n : information that is incorrect




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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1709211 - 07/12/03 07:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh yeah - I gotta try it.
I got chickens anyway (hey I don't eat 'em! They got names!) and I know what you mean about the slime stage because I've cooked a lot of corn for hogs and some for nunyan (country term for "nunyan you bizzness") and yeah, there are always mushrooms coming up in the corners of the feed shed just not the right kind..... :cool:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Effed]
    #1711194 - 07/13/03 01:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Listen man. Im sorry I was "disrespectful".




Appology accepted.

Quote:

I think the word you were looking for is misinformation:




Nope Disinformation was the word I was looking for and it was meant as sarcasism. Someone with 4000+ posts in a year has made a trip to OTD and I'm sure you've must have read at least one thread where the shroomery is a DEA or FBI front. I was playing off of those silly OTD threads. I figured the "postwhore" comment would have tied it all in.


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: Anno]
    #1711364 - 07/13/03 02:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I thought that was pretty obvious:

In no source you could find exact relations between the simmering time and the final water content of the grain, and I established it for rye grain in my test. mmmkay?




Atcually in the "Quart Jars for Retards v1.0" which used to be on the shroomery forums until the PF Bust when I had you delete it.

Quote:

> I guess I just figured you were trying to discredit me when you did your test

That?s your problem. Not everybody gives a f*** about you.
The world isn?t build around you. Even if you think it is.




Hmm Too bad you had to resort to swearing.

Now I have never made any claims that the world evolves around me. I'm not that fat. lol However I do seem to be an outlet for your negitivity. Which is fine with me because I have thick skin. However if you take a look at threads where we cross paths I think you'll find that you're a bigger troll to me then CaptianMaxMushroom ever was. So as I see Anno I hate to break this to you but you are NOT the world.

For the life of me Anno I can not figure out why you can show me the respect of being civil. You always have to be condesending. Yet I know what the f*** I'm talking about. Seriously Anno, Baby Hitler, zeronio, Evoloving and Alien all had green names so they are Mods and NOT a one of you caught that the Millet wasn't prepared properly.

No disprespect meant to Effed but those comparison pictures are what made this thread some 9 pages long before I pointed out. Show some respect for my knowledge and keen eye.

I left room for the fact that there may be a tek out there that I wasn't aware. Yet you come of all high and mighty to correct my loose statement. With claims of "This is a method that has been used for several decades, way before you knew about it." Well me Grandma and Grandpa were farmers and this how the rehdrated grains for use. Now I'm closer to 40 then I am 30 so I have known about this for a long as time and is the only way I've ever used. Or you twist my words.

Effed,

Quote:

Oh yeah maybe youd like my tek better if I had a shameless plug for your filter disks in it.
If you want to talk about a contribution to a community...
Talk about Anno. www.fungifun.org
Contributions are free.

Some fucking vendors.
Now stay out of my thread.
Thank you.




No don't need need a plug but thanks for the offer and it's not that I don't like your tek it's that I'd like to see accurate info and when comparing things making sure all things are equal.

As for you comments about Anno and FungiFun. I would like to point out to you that I was the Founder of THE OMC and wrote all of the code for the forums myself so that someone could just by the same thing to learn how to hack into the forum.

Now vendors aren't evil people after all we do sponsor this place which pays the monthlies as well as software and server upgrades.

So I guess I could have retorted

Some members :thumbdown:
Have you ever sent the admin of this site any money that wasn't connected to a raffle?  :thumbdown:
Then say out of my forums!  :thumbdown:

But I won't. Instead I'll ask you too look at my remarks as constructive critism that will steer you in completing a solid tek with valid comparision and correct measurements. If any? You are correct in the fact that too those who price is a big deal CC is a great alternative.

Now this is the last time I'm going to respond to anything off topic!!! Out of respect for Effed.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Cracked Corn Substrate. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1711493 - 07/13/03 03:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

OK, well is CC the same as deer corn that is used for deer feeders? If so this stuff is real cheap and available at the feed stores in big ass bags as well. I might get a bag if no one has seen it. It seems to be in a bit bigger pieces than CC maybe.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation >> Mushroom Cultivation Archive >> Substrates

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* Enhanced Psilocybin Production (7.5 G Psilocybin)
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00Zen 23,961 34 01/25/02 10:27 PM
by Champion des Champignons

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