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trey fitty
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/11
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 years, 11 days
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To simmer on not to simmer. WBS
#13847225 - 01/25/11 11:07 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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just let it soaked overnight and strained it out. should i simmer it or just throw it into the jars
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Naz
Fungal Infection



Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 917
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: trey fitty]
#13847244 - 01/25/11 11:11 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I boil water and allow grains to steep in covered bowl for two hours then dry do a search for no simmer tek...works great!! simmering is a bitch IMO
dont wanna put soaked grains in jars...must be dry on outside...i lay mine out over a window screen and allow to dry that way...outside it takes about 45-1hr inside...depends
Edited by Naz (01/25/11 11:12 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Naz]
#13847251 - 01/25/11 11:13 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Soak, simmer, strain. Don't take shortcuts. Cook until the grains start to get soft, but not so long they are mooshy.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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biologys
Mycologist in Trainning




Registered: 12/21/09
Posts: 4,622
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Doc_T]
#13847259 - 01/25/11 11:14 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: Soak, simmer, strain. Don't take shortcuts. Cook until the grains start to get soft, but not so long they are mooshy.

if you take shortcuts you're just going to be back in a week or two and wonder why it didn't work
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Naz
Fungal Infection



Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 917
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Doc_T]
#13847264 - 01/25/11 11:15 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Doc_T said: Soak, simmer, strain. Don't take shortcuts. Cook until the grains start to get soft, but not so long they are mooshy.
not simmering is not a shortcut...and also gives you less exploded grains...if you are planning on fruiting just the grains you should simmer cuz you are gonna need all the moisture you can get...but if it is just for spawn....then a lil on the dry side is the way to go...daster colonization and less chance of over soaking and exploding grains
also IME simmering has been where my worst grain has comefrom..all soppy and wet...
Edited by Naz (01/25/11 11:16 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Naz]
#13847275 - 01/25/11 11:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Exploding grains, meh. Don't overcook, like I said, or the texture will suck. But as long as you PC it properly, you can cook grains to mush and it'll still work just fine.
If you want the best results, soak, simmer, strain.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: biologys]
#13847276 - 01/25/11 11:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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The simmer is to get the wbs to absorb as much water as possible and when draining the excess water evaporates into steam.
After the colander stops dripping excessive amounts of water put a T towel or something under it and toss the grains for a good ten minutes until they've cooled.
TLC my friend
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Doc_T]
#13847282 - 01/25/11 11:19 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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OK. I've been in your boat before on the WBS. I hated it when I first started, now it's all gravy baby. Here's my method
Rinse, rinse, rinse & rinse the hell outta the WBS. Once the water runs clear, put it in a pot. Bring the pot to a boil constantly stirring the WBS. now strain & rinse, rinse, rinse & rinse. Now put your gypsum in a bucket or in pot & load it w/ some mildly hot water. Toss WBS in for a 12-24 hr soak. After soak, put it back in the pot (I use the same water, because there's still some undissolved gypsum in there.) Bring to a boil constantly stirring. Strain & let air dry till the grain feels dry on the exterior.
I've had great success w/ this method so far. & you don't have to worry about the nasty gunky build up on the WBS after the soak this way. I normally have about 10% burst kernels, but I don't mind them.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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Naz
Fungal Infection



Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 917
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Quote:
todlow said: I normally have about 10% burst kernels, but I don't mind them.
I normally have 0% exploded kernels...
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TranscendingLife
I Don't Need a Life to Live



Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 21,627
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Naz]
#13847332 - 01/25/11 11:27 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yea, I know. I'm still trying to get the soak temp right...I need the water hot to dissolve the gypsum, but not too hot to where as I over soak my grains = burst kernels. It also happens, because I stir too hard during my boil stage...O well. More surface area/exposed starches. I actually screwed my entire prep 2 weeks ago by dumping boiling water into my 5 gal. bucket for a soak. I PCed 2 jars anyways & inoculated them w/ 1 cc MS KSSS each. There's probably 75% burst kernels in there. & The KSSS myc is loving all of it. I think it's time to shake.
-------------------- AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
      How I Do EVERYTHING     
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir



Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 2,588
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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T.L.C "Tender loving care"
If you want the best results put in the extra effort to rinse the grains off until the initial soak water is crystal clear then let it sit for the recommended soak time 24 hours.
After 24 hours the endospores will have made a foamy mess out of the water, this is when you rinse the grains off until the water runs crystal clear and then you simmer.
This is how it has to be for WBS since it is loaded with starch and that is why alot of people prefer rye grain since it does not require 10-15 minutes of rinsing before the initial soak water runs clear....
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Fungal growth
Lootinint


Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,641
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: HybridprX]
#13847700 - 01/25/11 12:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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different brands of wbs are cleaner than others. i'm using some from audubon that is super-clean, i rinse it a little out of habit (paranoia) but the water runs clear immediately. otoh i had some kaytee seed that was absolutely filthy.
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hamloaf
Q-dood ®©™√



Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 24,389
Loc: ation: Based.
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: trey fitty]
#13847726 - 01/25/11 12:36 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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For best results with anything in this hobby do not cut corners. Listen to the experienced cultivators who are telling you that for optimal grain preparation/hydration don't skip the boil/simmer step. Research has found grain preparation superior when the boil/simmer step is included in the preparation of birdseed regimen over skipping the boil/simmer step.
I use RR's grain prep tek for my birdseed. When using a quick 10 minute flash boil instead of a simmer with wild birdseed, be very careful not to let the birdseed boil for no longer than the allotted 10 minutes. Due to the grain size of the birdseed mix, the grains become heated quicker than rye berries and are more prone to burst and expose them inner starches.
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Naz
Fungal Infection



Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 917
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: hamloaf]
#13862396 - 01/27/11 07:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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there is more than one way to skin a cat. The only difference between soaking in boiling water and stirring while boiling is a cple hours and exploded grains. I don't know how a way that proves itself to eliminate the problems of another way is considered a short cut but ok. OP in the end you will do what you want with your grains. I tried the boil method and i've tried the non boil method. found the later to be superior. you asked there it is.
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sandman420
Saint PP



Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 5,387
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: Naz]
#13862656 - 01/27/11 08:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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There is no need to simmer at all, I never do it and have great success
I also dont rinse before the soak and I dont remove any sunflower seeds or "floaters" either
Edited by sandman420 (01/27/11 08:45 PM)
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bourndead
Down to Earth by Default


Registered: 07/06/10
Posts: 1,030
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: sandman420]
#13862685 - 01/27/11 08:49 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I boil, not simmer, for 10 minutes to aid in the drying process. When working with WBS i also cut down on the soak, from 24 to 17-20 which, when followed by the ~10min boil in the same soak water, gives me <~2% burst kernels post PC run. Which is fine by my standards for WBS.
Just go balls out and follow your tek of choice to a T and see how it pans out, if it's not to your standards then tweak a few things next go round, rinse/repeat till you get it 'right.' My first attempt at grain(WBS following Doc's tek) all looked fine till post PC when damn near 50% of my kernels burst, I just let it ride and inoculated, things colonized quick and fine and the next attempt I tweaked soak times and turned the 30min simmer into a 10min boil(per RR's grain tek) and voila, my jars look lovely coming out the PC now.
-------------------- "I don't have a God complex, you've got a simple God"
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TripleB
Hobbyist



Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 1,358
Loc: Michigan
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: bourndead]
#13862819 - 01/27/11 09:16 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm adding my 2 cents here...
Boil = FAILED
Simmer = FAILED
Soak ONLY for 12 hours = GOOD!
For 7 years, I have tried simmering multiple times with a 0% success rate. Just soak for 12 hours and pc. Been doing it for over 7 years now, with rarely any contams and 100% success.
~TripleB
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danksrus
Habitual Line Stepper

Registered: 11/18/10
Posts: 95
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: TripleB]
#13862890 - 01/27/11 09:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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My best WBS jars have come from using this tek:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8508523#Post8508523
The only thing I do differently in that tek is rinse a bunch BEFORE I toss the seed into the boiling water. Other than that, I just follow it to a T and things always go well.
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DeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: TripleB]
#19480636 - 01/27/14 10:12 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
TripleB said: I'm adding my 2 cents here...
Boil = FAILED
Simmer = FAILED
Soak ONLY for 12 hours = GOOD!
For 7 years, I have tried simmering multiple times with a 0% success rate. Just soak for 12 hours and pc. Been doing it for over 7 years now, with rarely any contams and 100% success.
~TripleB
Bringing this one back from the dead instead of starting a new post.
Wondering where everyone is on this topic now days. Getting back into growing so im trying improve on they way is used to do things in the past.
However in the past i never saw the point of simmering and certainly not boiling wbs and for the most Part have had good success.
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NOS4A2
This is the way


Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 572
Loc: -tite
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Re: To simmer on not to simmer. WBS [Re: DeadHearts]
#19480743 - 01/27/14 10:52 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think you'll get a lot of the same answers. I think grain prep is influence by personal factors more than strict tek compliance, hence why everyone seems to have different opinions.
That being said, good rinsing (kinda goes without saying) over night soak 5 Min boil ( I tried the 10min and decided it didn't need quite as much. The boil helps soften it up to a degree but all it's really usefull for is getting it hot to the point where it will evaporate most of the water out as quick as possible when you spread it out on a window screen panel.)
Never an exploded grain. Never a bad anything. Super simple. But you may have different results. What bothers me the most is the time spent rinsing. And the mess? I think a good tek would be a device to automatically sift the grain while water is run through it and cleans it out. If I had advice to give, it would be to start with the easiest method and then if it's not right, add one thing new every time you try again until you get close. Sometimes it's just as easy as adding or subtracting a few minutes. I really think people make it more difficult than it needs to be though. Fuck simmering, I'd have that screwed up everytime with my ADHD
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