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 Ellis Dee
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 Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks   1
#1382660 - 03/17/03 03:35 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Madrid turns over documents
to U.S., holds terrorist for trial
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Posted: March 16, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
An alleged terrorist accused of helping the Sept. 11 conspirators was invited to a party by the Iraqi ambassador to Spain under his al-Qaida pseudonym, according to documents seized by Spanish investigators and turned over to U.S. authorities, the London Observer reports.
Yusuf Galan, who was photographed being trained at a camp run by Osama bin Laden, is now in jail, awaiting trial in Madrid. The indictment against him, drawn up by investigating judge Baltasar Garzon, claims he was "directly involved with the preparation and carrying out of the attacks ... by the suicide pilots on 11 September."
Evidence of Galan's links with Iraqi government officials came to light only recently, as investigators pored through more than 40,000 pages of documents seized in raids at the homes of Galan and seven alleged co-conspirators. The Spanish authorities have supplied copies to lawyers in America, and this week the documents will form part of a dossier to be filed in a federal court in Washington, claiming damages of approximately $100 billion on behalf of more than 2,500 Sept. 11 victims, according to the Observer report.
The lawsuit lists Saddam's government in Iraq as one of its principal defendants, claiming it provided 'material support' to the al-Qaida terrorists.
While many opposing the invasion of Iraq have been skeptical of the al-Qaida-Iraq link, in recent months George Tenet, director of the CIA, has made increasingly strong statements alleging such a connection. In congressional testimony, he said that Iraq had co-operated with al-Qaida for 10 years, and that it had trained al-Qaida members in bomb-making and the use of chemical and biological weapons.
WorldNetDaily has reported Iraq's sponsorship of al-Qaida dating back more than a decade since Dec. 2002.
The evidence in support of the Sept. 11 damages claim cites several examples of this alleged co-operation. They include the terrorist training camp at Salman Pak near Baghdad, where former Iraqi intelligence brigadier Jamal al-Qurairy has said that non-Iraqi Islamic radicals were trained to hijack aircraft using knives.
It also includes a new affirmation by the Czech government that Mohamed Atta, the leader of the Sept. 11 plotters, met an Iraqi intelligence officer, Ibrahim al-Ani, in Prague in April 2001. Some US officials have suggested this meeting did not happen. But in a signed statement dated 24 February, 2003, Hynek Kmonicek, the Czech ambassador to the UN, says his government 'can confirm that during the stay of Mohamed Atta ... there was contact with Mr al-Ani, who was on 22 April, 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities not compatible with his diplomatic status [the usual euphemism for spying]'. Garzon's indictment says Galan was part of a cell which organized bank robberies on behalf of al-Qaida, and which had supported the group around Atta financially and logistically.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31546
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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quemo
dontknowitall
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 Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#1382703 - 03/17/03 03:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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well that says it all doesn't it??? BOMB THEM!!!
seriously, this is yesterdays-news, and the complete story is full of "allegedly....supposedly....allegedly......could indicate" blablabla
as for the CIA-director: who pays his salary?? right.
And even if this all was true, Powell would surely have used this story in his UN Iraq-failing to disarm-Presentation. I mean, he could easily have removed some of the many crappy parts in that story (ones even blix laughed away) to switch with some true VERIFYABLE UNDENIABLE facts (excuse my bush-rethorics)
There is enough evidence of the iraqi-regime and AQ trying to team up in the past. However, there is just as enough evidence of seeing that collaberation falling apart because of ideological differences. Bottom line: Saddam and Osama just couldn't stand the sight of each other.... (figure of speech of course)
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: quemo] 1
#1382722 - 03/17/03 04:01 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lets see, prior to 9-11 men practiced taking over planes with knives. That's pretty incriminating. If after Pearl Harbor we learned that some asians had practiced dive bombing mock American ships in the Mediteranian it would be pretty obvious it was the Japanese practicing for the attack. This seems to be the same to me. If true, this is a direct link between Iraq and the 9-11 attack.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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quemo
dontknowitall
Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 137
Loc: worldcitizen
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#1382774 - 03/17/03 04:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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indeed, but why there is enough reason to higly doubt this story i refer to my previous statement
And with all the aggressive oneway-SaddamIsTheBoogyMan-propaganda the neoconservative bush-administration put forward the last months, even they didn't dare to claim this as undeniable evidence in the UN-council. Seems to me they knew this story would've been flamed by insiders..... (if i recall this thing already WAS, but i have to say i'm not sure)
by the way, looking at your nick, sig , pic and banner yo look like a pretty scary guy: ever seen "Bowling in Columbine" ??
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: quemo] 1
#1382793 - 03/17/03 04:30 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I get my nick from Quake 3 Arena, I used to play it all the time. I think the avatar is a neat pic, one of those stop moton photography ones. My banner is great too. No, I've never seen Bowling For Columbine, but I've read reviews which show it's propagandaish rubbish. But lets not change the topic to that now, if you want to discuss these things we can PM or open a new thread.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Edited by Ellis Dee (03/17/03 04:31 AM)
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quemo
dontknowitall
Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 137
Loc: worldcitizen
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#1382892 - 03/17/03 05:13 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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propaganda for who 
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Anonymous
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#1383028 - 03/17/03 06:07 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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this article is trash.
according to documents seized by Spanish investigators and turned over to U.S. authorities
'seized' from who? more likely these "documents" were fabricated by US or British intelligence and leaked to spanish investigators. or something like that. they do that sort of shit all the time. disinformation... only it's supposed to work for us in this case.
Yusuf Galan, who was photographed being trained at a camp run by Osama bin Laden, is now in jail, awaiting trial in Madrid.
or someone who looks like yusuf, in some place that looks like an osama bin laden terrorist camp. is this picture available to the public? who took it? where did it come from?
he said that Iraq had co-operated with al-Qaida for 10 years, and that it had trained al-Qaida members in bomb-making and the use of chemical and biological weapons.
even if this is true... so what? iraq may have trained foriegn soldiers. we train soldiers of other nations (as well as our own) in these techniques all the time. when were these "10 years"? you should know that the United States and saddam hussien were buddies for a while, and we were also tight with the predecessor of al-qaeda.
this "connection" is extremely shoddy. even if that stuff about yusuf were true, it would only mean that there was a person who visited the iraqi government and then at some point also happened to visit an al qaeda training camp.
i can't believe anyone would take this bullshit seriously.
there are arguable reasons to go to war with iraq. "they were behind the 9-11 attacks" isn't one of them.
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 luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: ] 1
#1383048 - 03/17/03 06:14 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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While I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be true, there's just no way of knowing for sure at this time.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Ellis Dee
Archangel
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Posts: 13,104
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: ] 1
#1383488 - 03/17/03 08:27 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
even if this is true... so what? iraq may have trained foriegn soldiers. we train soldiers of other nations (as well as our own) in these techniques all the time.
If it is true, it's the smoking gun. The claim is that Iraq directly trained people in taking over planes with knives. This training came to fruition on 9-11 when 4 planes were hijacked and crashed in to the World Trade Center main buildings, the Pentagon, and in Pennsylvania. Our nation wept and vowed to pay recompence to the perpetrators. That's so what.
Let's Roll!!!
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#1383569 - 03/17/03 08:50 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remember, the US funded and armed Saddam so if this highly dubious link exists at the head of the chain sits Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr.
Reagan won't remember it but the rest of us should.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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flow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Xlea321] 1
#1383878 - 03/17/03 10:19 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Remember, the US funded and armed Saddam
Certainly, the US is hardly the only country to blame for arming Saddam. Alex, i've seen you try to use this again and again, but SEVERAL nations, not just the US supplied iraq with arms and cash. The french even built them not one, but two(and possibly three), nuclear reactors to enrich uranium. Where does the main tank of the Iraqi army come from? Or almost all of there artillery, assualt rifles, and basically all of their other standard military weapons? Russia. Please explain why the US is to blame for arming Saddam.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: flow] 1
#1385566 - 03/17/03 05:40 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Certainly, the US is hardly the only country to blame for arming Saddam.
Ted Bundy wasn't the only serial killer in the world either. He was still wrong.
but SEVERAL nations, not just the US supplied iraq with arms and cash.
Just nowhere near as much as the US.
Please explain why the US is to blame for arming Saddam.
Because they provided chemical weapons and gave him billion dollar loans to purchase arms?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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uno
enthusiast
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#1386966 - 03/18/03 05:17 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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MSNBC Story
Anyone ever read this story and/or any extension on it? It would be really interesting to find out more about the american gov't training some 9/11 terrorists at the infamous School of the Americas.
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- uno
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uno
enthusiast
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: uno] 1
#1386968 - 03/18/03 05:18 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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hmm i think i'm going to make that its own post.
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- uno
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flow
outlaw immortal
Registered: 11/20/02
Posts: 496
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Xlea321] 1
#1387327 - 03/18/03 07:31 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ted Bundy wasn't the only serial killer in the world either. He was still wrong.
So how does this explain why the US is the only country to blame for arming Iraq?
Please keep these sort of stupid, pointless comments to yourself.
Quote:
Just nowhere near as much as the US.
NOT TRUE AT ALL. Why is it that the main iraqi assualt rifle is the AK47? Their only combat aircraft are MIGs and the French plane whose name i can't remember at the moment. Who basically supplied Saddam with the means to build a nuclear weapon? TWICE. In September 1975, the French prime minister at the time, Jacques Chirac, actually signed an agreement to sell Hussein a reactor and arms-grade uranium. If Israel hadn't acted on this, Hussein could have had several nukes by the time he invaded Kuwait. Also, as i've already mentioned, all iraqi tanks are russian, and most artillery and other conventional weapons were russian as well.
Quote:
Because they provided chemical weapons and gave him billion dollar loans to purchase arms?
So chemical weapons are the only ones that kill people? Nuclear weapons are far more dangerous, and the only country in the world stupid and capable enough to give saddam access to this power is also the country trying the hardest to stop us from disarming him.
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Edame
gone
Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: flow] 1
#1387432 - 03/18/03 08:03 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NOT TRUE AT ALL. Why is it that the main iraqi assualt rifle is the AK47? Their only combat aircraft are MIGs and the French plane whose name i can't remember at the moment. Who basically supplied Saddam with the means to build a nuclear weapon? TWICE.
Guess what, AK47's, MIGs and tanks are not 'weapons of mass destruction'. Iraq is allowed to arm itself for defence purposes.
Quote:
In September 1975, the French prime minister at the time, Jacques Chirac, actually signed an agreement to sell Hussein a reactor and arms-grade uranium. If Israel hadn't acted on this, Hussein could have had several nukes by the time he invaded Kuwait.
That's pure speculation. Ever think they might have wanted to build a nuclear reactor, you know, to supply electricity and stuff? Just because it could be used to make nuclear weapons does not mean they were going to make them.
Quote:
Also, as i've already mentioned, all iraqi tanks are russian, and most artillery and other conventional weapons were russian as well.
The operative words there being conventional weapons
Quote:
So chemical weapons are the only ones that kill people? Nuclear weapons are far more dangerous, and the only country in the world stupid and capable enough to give saddam access to this power is also the country trying the hardest to stop us from disarming him.
There is no proof whatsoever that Iraq has nuclear weapons, or can even make them, or has the capacity to attack anyone with them.
In fact the only country in the history of this planet, insane enough to actually use nuclear weapons against other human beings was the USA.
Also, if you knew anything about this you would realise that France is all for disarming Iraq, find me a single statement that says otherwise. To quote Chirac yesterday:
"Iraq today does not represent an immediate threat that justifies an immediate war,"
"This is a serious decision, while Iraq's disarmament is underway and the inspections have shown that they were a credible alternative for disarming this country."
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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.
And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.
"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.
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Xlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: flow] 1
#1387467 - 03/18/03 08:18 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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So how does this explain why the US is the only country to blame for arming Iraq?
Try and keep up sunbeam. If other countries armed Iraq too does that mean it's ok for the US to do it?
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Edame] 1
#1387542 - 03/18/03 08:36 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edame writes:
Ever think they might have wanted to build a nuclear reactor, you know, to supply electricity and stuff?
Uh huh.
I can just see Hussein addressing his cabinet ministers:
"My fellow Iraqis, we are sitting on the second largest pool of oil on the planet. We are producing far more than we are allowed to sell under the UN sanctions. But I have a brilliant idea! Instead of using an infinitesimally small fraction of that oil that we get for free to fill all our energy requirements, let's instead spend billions of dollars building nuclear plants."
pinky
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Xlea321] 1
#1387551 - 03/18/03 08:38 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alex, can you name one weapons system, tank, firearm or combat aircraft that the Iraqi's have that was supplied by the U.S.?
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
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Re: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks [Re: Phred] 1
#1387559 - 03/18/03 08:39 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pinky, your forgetting about the Iraqi concern about greenhouse gasses. 
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
Edited by Evolving (03/18/03 10:59 AM)
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