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OfflineDannyBoy
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Registered: 01/31/03
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Mushroom Growing and the Law....
    #1381958 - 03/16/03 07:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

At what point during the mushroom growing process does it become illegal...here is my basic outline of the process....at which point does it become illegal?

1. Posessing Spore Syringe
2. Innoculating Jars
3. Mycelium Growth
4. Pinning
5. Full Grown Mushrooms


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"It has been said that kids say the darndest things, but so would you if you had no education"


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: DannyBoy]
    #1381998 - 03/16/03 07:47 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Are you in the US? WHat state?

If your in Canada or another country, someone else has to answer.


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OfflineDannyBoy
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 429
Loc: South East, U.S.A.
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1382047 - 03/16/03 08:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I'm in the USA, Florida.....All I know is that spores are not allowed in California and Georgia....everywhere else in the US spores are legal.


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"It has been said that kids say the darndest things, but so would you if you had no education"


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: DannyBoy]
    #1382477 - 03/17/03 04:06 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

florida's got some funny mushroom laws. the most lenient in the nation. spores are legal of course, and possession of even fresh fruitbodies can sometimes be ok... if you 'didn't know' what kind of mushrooms they were or something. there's info at erowid about this.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: ]
    #1382495 - 03/17/03 04:20 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

wouldn't it come down to intent?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1382503 - 03/17/03 04:26 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

if you had fresh psilocybe mushrooms in your possession or growing outdoors naturally on your property and got stopped by police... then said that you picked them by accident or they just grew there naturally and you didn't know that they were illegal psychoactive mushrooms, you could get off the hook. (only in FL).

dry mushrooms or mycelia cultures would be illegal. any stage in the indoor growing process, if discovered, would be highly illegal.

yes, it comes down to intent. in FL, cubensis is so common that it makes no sense to try to prosecute people who accidentally come into possession of it.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: ]
    #1382509 - 03/17/03 04:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

you could get off the hook



well i agree but ignorance of the law is no excuse, if you don't believe me try telling a cop when you get pulled over for speeding that you didn't know the speed limit was 45 when you're doing 65.

Quote:

cubensis is so common that it makes no sense to try to prosecute people who accidentally come into possession of it.



oh ok, if you have one in Michigan it's a little harder to BS the cop.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1382515 - 03/17/03 04:35 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)



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OfflineDannyBoy
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 429
Loc: South East, U.S.A.
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: ]
    #1382759 - 03/17/03 06:19 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

So now my question is...

Is having fully colonized jars illegal to have?

Because according to the law Psilocybin is the chemical that is illegal, and it would be my understanding that if mycelium contained NO Psilocybin then having fully colonized jars wouldn't be a legal issue, unless you get down to intent, but that's not what I'm asking. All I want to know is if mycelium contains psilocybin, which would make fully colonized jars illegal to possess.


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"It has been said that kids say the darndest things, but so would you if you had no education"


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: DannyBoy]
    #1382765 - 03/17/03 06:20 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Colonized jars are illegal because mycelium contain psilocybin.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: DannyBoy]
    #1382772 - 03/17/03 06:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

it would be illegal and you can't ignore the intent (even if it's not your question).

Example:
they find a colonized jar in an actual lab that studies mycology - Legal probably

they find a teenager with a jar in his bedroom, car, pocket, etc. - illegal with intent to use or distribute

i could be wrong but the loopholes, if any, would be closed like the minds that run the WOD.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (03/17/03 06:23 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1383044 - 03/17/03 08:12 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

it is illegal to possess psilocybin or psilocin without a permit from the DEA. the only exception is if you accidentally came into possession of fresh mushrooms which you did not know were psilocybes, and even this only applies in Florida state law.

as soon as spores germinate and mycelium begins to grow, measurable amounts of psilocybin and psilocin are present.

it is illegal to have mycelium in the united states.

but of course... all of this only matters if you get caught.  :wink:


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: ]
    #1383139 - 03/17/03 08:45 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

it is illegal to possess psilocybin or psilocin without a permit from the DEA. the only exception is if you accidentally came into possession of fresh mushrooms which you did not know were psilocybes, and even this only applies in Florida state law.




My guess would be that the only case in which you might get off the hook are if the shrooms are growing outdoors and are not removed from the substrate; and even thats highly questionable. Once removed from the substrate, it becomes intent for human consumption.


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1383156 - 03/17/03 08:51 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Once removed from the substrate, it becomes intent for human consumption.

not in florida. and mushrooms growing outdoors on your property are not illegal, unless of course, you've got something like a man-made bed of azures fruiting on alder chips or something. otherwise, they'd have to arrest every cattle rancher south of virginia. hehe... i would be surprised if our president doesn't have some cubies growing on his ranch.


Edited by Anonymous (03/17/03 08:57 AM)


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: ]
    #1383193 - 03/17/03 09:02 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Once removed from the substrate, it becomes intent for human consumption.

not in florida. and mushrooms growing outdoors on your property are not illegal, unless of course, you've got something like a man-made bed of azures fruiting on alder chips or something. otherwise, they'd have to arrest every cattle rancher south of virginia. hehe... i would be surprised if our president doesn't have some cubies growing on his ranch.




Maybe not in FL; but US federal law has been very consistent. The fact that the DEA doesnt prosecute every cattle rancher in the country leads me to believe that its a matter of "intent for human consumption". However, i could be wrong and i wouldnt take any unnecessary risks. Pinky is actually more the expert on this subject than me.


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1383251 - 03/17/03 09:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

yes, in order to prosecute you for possessing a controlled substance, they have to prove that you knowingly and willingly were in possession of it. in most states, the courts make the assumption that you have correctly identified any mushrooms that you're carrying. it's silly of course, and the only state that doesn't automatically make this assumption is florida. in other states, only unintentionally having shrooms growing on your property is ok. the courts in these states have decided that picking such mushrooms automatically proves that you knew what they were and what was in them.

but we're applying logic to drug policy here. and we all know that when it comes to drug laws, logic doesn't come into play very much.


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: DannyBoy]
    #1383272 - 03/17/03 09:30 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

as far as your concerned, any phase in growing mushrooms is illegal. indoor cultivation is certainly illegal. but if you are ever carrying fresh mushrooms in florida and get stopped by the pigs, play dumb (say you picked them to use in your dinner and you thought they were ok to eat.... react with a strange mix of shock and gratitude when they inform you that you picked hallucinogenic mushrooms. "what officer?! these are POISONOUS!? wow! whew... thanks alot for letting me know... i almost went home and ate them")). in any other state, you're fucked.

in much of europe, shrooms don't become illegal at all until they're dried (it's even legal to grow them).


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OfflinePhred
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1383301 - 03/17/03 09:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Even in Florida (thanks to the narrow ruling of the court in Fiske vs State of Florida), you are in the clear only if you gather wild-growing mushrooms. Simple possession of those mushrooms does not, in the opinion of the Florida courts, establish intent.

However, cultivating your own is not protected by that decision. The act of cultivation is considered in the eyes of the law to be "manufacture of a controlled substance", since the end result of the process is psilocin and psilocybin (albeit psilocin and psilocybin "packaged" in a "natural" container).

Fiske's defense was that it was unreasonable to presume that every person gathering mushrooms from the wild has a degree in mycology. He showed that even trained mycologists are unable to make 100% accurate identification of wild mushroom species through visual means alone, therefore a hobbyist looking for edible mushrooms could hardly be expected to do better while out in a cow pasture. He proved this point by noting correctly that many people die each year from ingesting wild gathered mushrooms which were misidentified. In other words, mistakes happen.

The court agreed that it was unreasonable to expect the average person to be able to ascertain with certainty that a given mushroom they gathered from its natural habitat contained a controlled substance, and Fiske walked.

But there is a world of difference between gathering wild ones and going to the trouble of cultivating your own. Because of the effort involved and the specialized knowledge required to successfully cultivate some mushrooms, it is reasonable to presume that the cultivator has more than just a layman's knowledge of mushroom identification. In order to design a successful substrate, set the proper parameters (humidity, temperature, light, CO2 levels, etc.) of the various stages of growth, etc., the cultivator must have knowledge of the requirements of the particular species he is growing -- in other words, it is reasonable to assume the cultivator must know what species he is working with. The exception might be in the case of a species previously unknown to science.

In other words, in the case of cultivation, the automatic presumption of ignorance doesn't fly. It is reasonable to assume the cultivator knows the end result of his work will be the production of psilocin and psilocybin, hence the cultivator will be charged with a felony.

Even if the jars or casings or whatever are seized before the mycelium shows detectable levels of psilocin or psilocybin, the cultivator can be charged with attempted manufacture of a controlled substance, or (if there is more than one person involved) conspiracy to manufacture a controlled substance. I wouldn't want the task of convincing a jury that I took all that time and trouble to carefully cultivate these mushrooms just out of simple curiosity, never dreaming that they were psilocybes. A jury dumb enough to buy that would be dumb enough to acquit OJ Simpson.

pinky



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InvisibleHarveyWalbanger
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Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: DannyBoy]
    #1384311 - 03/17/03 02:19 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Its my understanding, VIA the FBI doocument on it (alledgedly) that psilocybin isnt present till the hyphal knot stage, not only that but I've heard of people eatting colonized pint jars and not tripping. And it may even be debatable at the knot stage if its a questionably small knot.


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Anonymous

Re: Mushroom Growing and the Law.... [Re: HarveyWalbanger]
    #1384361 - 03/17/03 02:35 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

yep, that's what the FBI concluded from a study. it's wrong though, and i wouldn't count on it to keep you out of trouble.


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