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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars?
#13819525 - 01/20/11 10:07 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'd like to use coffee in bulk substrate, but I'm too lazy to do proper pasteurization. I've had some success sterilizing coffee grounds (I can them) and adding during to the dry coir before the boiling water. Also, I've mixed them in as I go along, sprinkling sterile grounds into prepared bulk sub.
It's not ideal. Sterile coffee grounds, or sterile anything, represents a contam risk. So I thought about putting the coffee grounds into the grain jars so it's all pre-colonized. I'm not going to use less grain, just add a quarter cup or so of coffee to each jar when I add the grain.
Thoughts?
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LeopardMan
Constantly changing



Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 5,467
Loc: A tree house
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Doc_T]
#13819558 - 01/20/11 10:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's worth a try in my opinion. Nice idea
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: LeopardMan]
#13819563 - 01/20/11 10:20 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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have you experience increased contams from adding sterile grounds?
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: k00laid]
#13819612 - 01/20/11 10:32 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing scientific.
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k00laid
NEMO


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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Doc_T]
#13819615 - 01/20/11 10:33 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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j/w
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Object110011



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: k00laid]
#13819666 - 01/20/11 10:46 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ive got a bunch of grain spawn jars with coffee grinds in them. Today I have been transferring onto cardboard- they are rieshi. I did notice that all of the small black flakes that were on the glass had mycellial growth.
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Mikeallojee
Coolaid smile



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: k00laid]
#13819672 - 01/20/11 10:47 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't drink coffee so to get the coffee boost I use a coffee press and pour the entire contents coffee grounds and all into the soaking water before I boil and pc. Ive never had any problems. It actually seems to help growth. myc
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higgledy-piggledy

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 966
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Mikeallojee]
#13819872 - 01/20/11 11:33 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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imo theres no need to use the grounds.
all the compounds are (hot) water soluble; so why take the entire muck?
- make coffee - dilute - use that to soak your grains in
end of story.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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when I did/used to use coffee grounds I used them in my grain soak and added a few pinches to my jars b4 PCing along with adding a few cups to my sub. I noticed nothing different with or without it but I was inoculating with MS so not its that reliable.
I did like having grounds in my ATL#7 jars. made the stones taste better IMO. 
now I use gypsum only (for all stages, grain soak/pre-PC/bulk prep) instead coffee for added nutes.
coffee is 50/50 with contams if not prepped (pasteurized/sterilized-whatever your preferred method is) properly.
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Malachi Constant
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do you buy your sub prepasturized? I feel like adding coffee or coir too good hpoo compost just adds to the contam risk of an already sufficient substrate. If it ain't broke, don't fix it approach to the whole thing.
If I want to add coffee to Damions coir tek I just boil coffee grounds in my water for the pasteurizing. Everything is sterile going in, and not only do the grounds get pasteurized in the sub, your grounds also leech into the water which I think helps better disperse nutrients evenly.
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N2DFlood
Fractalist



Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 389
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I did try this once, actually i added about 1/2 cup coffee grounds (not spent) to the soak water on a test batch of WBS just to see what would happen, after rinse there were still grains in the WBS. did everything per your tek, even chunked the floaters.
I PC'd them at 15psi for 90 min.
All 6 got cobweb within 5 days out of the PC... i cant blame the coffee, but since then ive been gun shy and dont use it, and had very few contams using your tek. I did inoculate the jars with spore solution, and didnt leave out a control... so..oops.
FWIW
-Flood
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gornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met



Registered: 08/04/09
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I'd be interested in learning 1)if the nitrogen-contributing portion of coffee is in fact water-soluble and 2)if coffee water (not grounds) is contam-prone.
I wonder if just using strong coffee as your pasteurization water could be the solution.
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FractalXplora
Grainiack




Registered: 02/11/06
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Loc: UK
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: gornyhuy]
#13821068 - 01/20/11 02:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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ive added grounds to grain jars Doc with no problem, wether it does any good is anyones guess.
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: gornyhuy]
#13821110 - 01/20/11 03:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gornyhuy said: I'd be interested in learning 1)if the nitrogen-contributing portion of coffee is in fact water-soluble and 2)if coffee water (not grounds) is contam-prone.
I wonder if just using strong coffee as your pasteurization water could be the solution.
IME if you leave plain liquid coffee out for a few days, it'll grow mold.
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said: all the compounds are (hot) water soluble; so why take the entire muck?
So, all the "muck" that is not water-soluble contains no compounds, hmm?
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If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say,
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: andymc]
#13821125 - 01/20/11 03:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Agreed w/Andy, liquid coffee will grow mold. I'm soaking some WBS now. I'm making half gallon jars, so I'll do like a half cup of coffee grounds and 5 cups cooked grain. Coffee in two jars, two without, g2g inoculation. Is the plan.
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N2DFlood
Fractalist



Registered: 11/10/10
Posts: 389
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Doc_T]
#13821198 - 01/20/11 03:17 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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oooh maybe i'll get over my fear of coffee. Thanks for a proper experiment.
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higgledy-piggledy

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 966
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: andymc]
#13824583 - 01/21/11 04:15 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
andymc said: so, all the "muck" that is not water-soluble contains no compounds, hmm? 
no, it doesnt mr. rolleyes; at least none which we are interested in when using coffee.
you want the substances which are in the muck, the nitrogenous ones.
thats why you extract them. after doing this the muck is useless.
the grounds may contain carbohydrates which the myc can use as food but thats not what we are talking about and not our intention when using coffee.
when talking about using coffee or the grounds as an additive in the substrate, we are talking about providing N.
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said:
Quote:
andymc said: so, all the "muck" that is not water-soluble contains no compounds, hmm? 
no, it doesnt mr. rolleyes; at least none which we are interested in when using coffee.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Spent coffee grinds(after brewing) are a great bulk substrate material though. RR
I guess you're right. I guess everyone (such as RR) who uses spent coffee grounds in their substrates is just being silly.
According to RR there are hundreds of compounds in coffee. Can you list which ones are we "interested in"?
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said: imo theres no need to use the grounds.
all the compounds are (hot) water soluble; so why take the entire muck?
- make coffee - dilute - use that to soak your grains in
end of story.
Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said:
you want the substances which are in the muck, the nitrogenous ones.
thats why you extract them. after doing this the muck is useless.
the grounds may contain carbohydrates which the myc can use as food but thats not what we are talking about and not our intention when using coffee.
when talking about using coffee or the grounds as an additive in the substrate, we are talking about providing N.
Oh, is that what we're talking about, when we talk about using coffee grounds? 
It seems to be a bit of a habit with you, to answer questions off the top of your head without actually knowing much about the subject (don't make me post examples -- I can't be bothered to dig them up, and you don't want to be embarrassed).
Here's some info from WSU about what's in spent coffee grounds:
Quote:
Since coffee is extracted in water, most of the hydrophobic compounds, including oils, lipids, triglycerides, and fatty acids remain in the grounds, as do insoluble carbohydrates like cellulose and various indigestible sugars. Structural lignin, protective phenolics, and the wonderful aroma-producing essential oils are also left over from the brewing process. It’s this last group of chemicals that are reported to have antioxidant and antimicrobial properties.
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higgledy-piggledy

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 966
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: andymc]
#13824793 - 01/21/11 07:20 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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i see you have been busy the last 2 hours.
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said: i see you have been busy the last 2 hours.

Yup, but doing something else.
Googling "chemical composition of coffee grounds" took 2 seconds. That doc was the first result.
PS> I remember this was your response a previous time, when you answered a question about cold-weather woodlover growing parameters by saying they were the same as cubes; you subtracted the time difference between 2 of my post and made fun of me for researching the correct answers.
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Edited by andymc (01/21/11 07:31 AM)
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gornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met



Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 2,933
Loc: USA
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: andymc]
#13824807 - 01/21/11 07:31 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
andymc said:
Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said: i see you have been busy the last 2 hours.

Yup, but doing something else.
Googling "chemical composition of coffee grounds" took 2 seconds. That doc was the first result.
I KNEW the 'I'm feeling lucky' button was useful.
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werDehT
Offset


Registered: 12/15/11
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Doc_T]
#15916166 - 03/07/12 08:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't see a clear answer on this...
I've read adding grounds to a bulk sub is quite beneficial. Knowing this, I was drinking some coffee while preparing some jars with cracked corn. Without researching before hand (damn I'm getting cocky already) I decided to add some grounds in to some of the jars. I'm doing 2 strains and made a couple jars of ea strain with grounds and a couple without.
Transferred agar wedge to ea a couple days ago, I'll update with pics when I have an answer.
If something on this has been proven already I apologize, but I couldn't find it.
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15926286 - 03/09/12 07:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You added coffee grounds to your spawn jars? That would be kind of unorthodox, I think. AFAIK those of us who use grounds generally add them to our bulk substrates.
My grains are soaked in weak coffee water with gypsum (the coffee water part is an RR recommendation, IIRC).
I believe the grounds are more useful during colonizing/fruiting, as they provide nitrogen and potentially, various other useful compounds. That said, my guess is that they (at least) won't hurt anything during the spawn colonization stage.
Andy
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mrmojoshroomin
All-summa BeenNoddin



Registered: 01/24/12
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Quote:
higgledy-piggledy said: imo theres no need to use the grounds.
all the compounds are (hot) water soluble; so why take the entire muck?
- make coffee - dilute - use that to soak your grains in
end of story.
I agree 100%, adding the grounds themselves sounds like it might pose a number of problems, coonsidering they would be an isolated abundant nute source. Diluted coffee should be more reliable. Just an opinion though, good luck either way!!
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MagicCarpetRide89
Sideways Traveler



Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1,126
Loc: usa
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: andymc]
#15926378 - 03/09/12 07:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just posting to keep up with this thread Though the subject of using coffee grounds in the substrate sound like a good idea. I'm going to try and get as much info on the matter so when I get ready to put something together, I'll have clear idea as to how to put it all together right! Very interesting thread
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



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this thread died over a year ago it just got bumped
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werDehT
Offset



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: mrmojoshroomin]
#15926404 - 03/09/12 07:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've read about them being used in bulk subs and was planning on it. Like I said I did it without researching first, just assumed if they were nutritious t would help. Then researched and couldn't really find a clear answer. They're less than a week into colonizing n the ones with grounds do seem to be pulling ahead but we'll see what it does a little farther along.
I bumped it because while searching for the answer this was the first hit. Thought it would be better than just makin another thread with the same subject. Was I wrong?
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MagicCarpetRide89
Sideways Traveler



Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1,126
Loc: usa
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15926429 - 03/09/12 08:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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lol I didn't even notice the dates from the previous post. But bumping it may have been a good idea. Do post pics of the ones you have going with and with the coffee grinds and how it all turns out for you
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werDehT
Offset



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Quote:
MagicCarpetRide89 said: lol I didn't even notice the dates from the previous post. But bumping it may have been a good idea. Do post pics of the ones you have going with and with the coffee grinds and how it all turns out for you
Will do sir
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mrmojoshroomin
All-summa BeenNoddin



Registered: 01/24/12
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Quote:
MagicCarpetRide89 said: Just posting to keep up with this thread Though the subject of using coffee grounds in the substrate sound like a good idea. I'm going to try and get as much info on the matter so when I get ready to put something together, I'll have clear idea as to how to put it all together right! Very interesting thread
I think they were adding the grounds to their spawn, not sub. Adding grounds to the sub is fine, but to the spawn i'm not so sure.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: mrmojoshroomin]
#15926565 - 03/09/12 08:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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just a pinch or so of grounds in qt jars of grain are fine cus you have to PC it, I wouldnt advise using it in pf tek unless you PC your cakes, I dont think the traditional steam prep would suffice using grounds (which are grains). 
I dont add grounds to my grain jars unless its for stone producers that can take the time to use the nutes from the grounds. 
but I do add gypsum at almost every point of the myc cycle, soak/spawnjars/substrate prep same as coffee could be used, but its always safer to only use the diluted coffee/water in all but the substrate prep. 
gypsum for calcium/sulpher for plumper more healthy looking mushies
coffee for N and a quicker speed w/colonization.
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MagicCarpetRide89
Sideways Traveler



Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1,126
Loc: usa
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: mrmojoshroomin]
#15926566 - 03/09/12 08:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
mrmojoshroomin said:
Quote:
MagicCarpetRide89 said: Just posting to keep up with this thread Though the subject of using coffee grounds in the substrate sound like a good idea. I'm going to try and get as much info on the matter so when I get ready to put something together, I'll have clear idea as to how to put it all together right! Very interesting thread
I think they were adding the grounds to their spawn, not sub. Adding grounds to the sub is fine, but to the spawn i'm not so sure.
I think somewhere in this post they were talking about both. But yeah, I don't know about adding it to the spawn either
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werDehT
Offset



Registered: 12/15/11
Posts: 707
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Quote:
MagicCarpetRide89 said:
Quote:
mrmojoshroomin said:
Quote:
MagicCarpetRide89 said: Just posting to keep up with this thread Though the subject of using coffee grounds in the substrate sound like a good idea. I'm going to try and get as much info on the matter so when I get ready to put something together, I'll have clear idea as to how to put it all together right! Very interesting thread
I think they were adding the grounds to their spawn, not sub. Adding grounds to the sub is fine, but to the spawn i'm not so sure.
I think somewhere in this post they were talking about both. But yeah, I don't know about adding it to the spawn either
ya both have been mentioned here. i am speaking of adding to spawn jars, not sub. though ill be doing that as well
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: 13shrooms]
#15927120 - 03/09/12 10:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said: just a pinch or so of grounds in qt jars of grain are fine cus you have to PC it, I wouldnt advise using it in pf tek unless you PC your cakes, I dont think the traditional steam prep would suffice using grounds (which are grains). 
I dont add grounds to my grain jars unless its for stone producers that can take the time to use the nutes from the grounds. 
but I do add gypsum at almost every point of the myc cycle, soak/spawnjars/substrate prep same as coffee could be used, but its always safer to only use the diluted coffee/water in all but the substrate prep. 
gypsum for calcium/sulpher for plumper more healthy looking mushies
coffee for N and a quicker speed w/colonization.

--------------------
A M U
Click here ^ for the AMU forum
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werDehT
Offset



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: 13shrooms]
#15930473 - 03/10/12 06:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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here we goes guys, first update. All jars recieved g2g 3-2-12



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MagicCarpetRide89
Sideways Traveler



Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1,126
Loc: usa
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15930534 - 03/10/12 06:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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this should be interesting to see how it all goes. Thanks for putting up the pics!!
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TweakerO
Hamburger


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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15930540 - 03/10/12 06:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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sorry what kind of grains are those? they look like peanuts, no offense. goodluck, curiuos to see what you come up with.
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werDehT
Offset



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: TweakerO]
#15930549 - 03/10/12 06:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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cracked corn. Id like to use rye berries, but this seems to be all i can find in my area. Though i have to admit, i havent looked too hard.
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15930589 - 03/10/12 07:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yea I tried adding grinds to jars. Not too much of a difference if any that I could notice
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mrmojoshroomin
All-summa BeenNoddin



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15930645 - 03/10/12 07:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
werDehT said: here we goes guys, first update. All jars recieved g2g 3-2-12




Which jars have the grounds and which dont? BTW, lookin good so far
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werDehT
Offset



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: mrmojoshroomin]
#15930650 - 03/10/12 07:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you blow them up u can see, I used Microsoft paint to label them.
-------------------- "It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."
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mrmojoshroomin
All-summa BeenNoddin



Registered: 01/24/12
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15930680 - 03/10/12 07:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
werDehT said: If you blow them up u can see, I used Microsoft paint to label them.
Yeah you did, srry, i dont have a very keen sense of attenetion to detail!! Thanks!!! BTW how is yer name pronounced??
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werDehT
Offset



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: mrmojoshroomin]
#15930949 - 03/10/12 08:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Very carefully
-------------------- "It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."
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researcher89


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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15931230 - 03/10/12 09:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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what method do you use for the cracked corn spawn? i seem to be having trouble getting the water right
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werDehT
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: researcher89]
#15932403 - 03/11/12 08:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well I can't find the tek anymore. I remember having to translate it from ghetto and tweak it.
Gotta remember it nearly doubles in size, so if I want to prepare 12 jars I fill 6 to the top for the soak. Soak in the jars for 18-20 hours then use a colander to rinse. Put in a large pot, usually do 12 quarts worth in 2 batches. Fill with water and then the heat on. After it starts to simmer I leave it for 20 min, 25 at the most. Too long will give it a slimy coating, this isn't good. After that rinse it very well. Seriously, if you can stand to look at corn again for the next month you havent rinsed it long enough.
Fill yet jars up n pc for 90 min. Done. Oh, I added the coffee grounds after the second rinse. Another tip, after you simmer it, rinse in small amounts.
-------------------- "It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15933205 - 03/11/12 01:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
werDehT said: here we goes guys, first update. All jars recieved g2g 3-2-12




MS or isolates?
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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werDehT
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Wing]
#15933795 - 03/11/12 03:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ms. Germinated on brf "agar substitute".
-------------------- "It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15936674 - 03/12/12 08:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Awww we can't conclude anything from this experiement then. Your constant is a variable.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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werDehT
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Wing]
#15936895 - 03/12/12 09:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Really? That's aweful. I'm far from expert but I thought transferring from a single dish of germinated spores took the variable out of ms. Dang
-------------------- "It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



Registered: 04/25/11
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: werDehT]
#15937656 - 03/12/12 12:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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You would have to be working with an isolate or a clone at least. When take a piece of MS agar there could be hundreds of strains in there.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
Edited by Wing (03/12/12 03:10 PM)
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werDehT
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Re: Coffee grounds in grain spawn jars? [Re: Wing]
#15938039 - 03/12/12 02:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well thanks for setting me straight!
-------------------- "It's only after you've lost everything that your free to do anything."
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