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OfflineOregonChronic
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: Phoenix Crash]
    #13816321 - 01/19/11 07:13 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

I think im gonna open the bottom of the bag first so i can get the smaller chunks out.


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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: OregonChronic]
    #13818022 - 01/19/11 11:38 PM (14 years, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

OregonChronic said:
I just bought a gallon of coarse grade vermiculite for the PF tek...Should i do anything like add less water or more vermculite?

Im gonna be inoculating a few jars soon with it for my first grow.




I am no scientist, but I am sure of one thing. Colonization speeds arent depending that much on what Verm one uses. Regular mycelia in forests grow in way denser earths than any substrate we use, so we have proven that mushrooms are indeed strong. Besides, I have already had faster colonization speeds with the fine grade, so for once I am not talking out of my ass:P But then again, to the next guy, to each of his own...

IMO the key to successful colonization is as follows.

1. Enough air exchange
2. Enough water
3. Enough food for the mycelia (BRF)

The idea is to try to make sure that there is even amounts of all these factors. IMO simply mixing up the PF recipe wont do it(I have seen to many threads on the subject), one has to take care to make sure no pockets of dry substrate, unevenly mixed substrate etc occurs.
**This is no advice, merely a demonstration if my own method**
The method I use (which is in no way kosher, but this was how I did for the coffee cakes) is that I mix the water/verm (finer grade, I even blended it last time)/coffee and let it sit for about 1 hour. The I strain away all excess water with a collinder. After that I add enough BRF to make sure i get what I know is the proper stuff.**This is no advice, merely a demonstration of my own method**

As you can read, I dont follow the PF TEK to the letter. I dont tout the method above, its just simply the way I did it and I had massive improvement in both the health of the jars and the speed it colonized.

The rate of colonization depends much on the above stated factors, according to me(and in my experience, which isnt that great but I thought it was worth saying). If one had great colonization speed with coarse grade verm, it doesnt prove its the verm, its just a good balanced substrate. Yes there are extremes (one dont use pellet size verm for one thing) and of course we are not considering those but in the end, I just cant see evidence of that the Verm plays a hugely important role...

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InvisibleN2DFlood
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: kdmmontana]
    #13818098 - 01/19/11 11:52 PM (14 years, 20 hours ago)

I make my monster blocks using coarse verm.  I use the standard amount of water - 2 verm 1 water 1 rice bran.  It works wonderfully.  When stirring the course verm with water, letting it soak for 10 minutes, then stirring in the bran, the coarse verm gets broken down a bit by the agitation, and isn't quite so chunky anymore.

-Flood

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Offlinemmcakes
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: N2DFlood]
    #13818642 - 01/20/11 02:41 AM (14 years, 18 hours ago)

Good points Montana, makes sense to me. I will take all that into consideration in my next batch.

Not sure what you mean by "pellet size" but my coarse verm pieces are about the size of Captain Crunch cereal. Again though, the reason I'm liking the coarse so far is the ease of permeation (or so it seems) that the mycelium has. I love to look at all the cracks and spaces between the substrate. Looks nice and roomy in there, not all squished together like last time. My first jars really frustrated me, maybe I'm just finding solace in the new fluffy looking cakes.


Thanks for the advice demonstration of your methods!

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Offlinekdmmontana
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: mmcakes]
    #13818779 - 01/20/11 04:18 AM (14 years, 16 hours ago)

I think as long as you make sure your substrate is balanced properly there shouldnt be a problem. I guess many people find both types useful, I just usually go with whats less "risky". Ive seen cakes on rougher substrates here and many of them seem to do just fine.

I usually mix everything up and then i stir it with my spoon a couple of extra times, I make sure all fills are fluffy and airy and I make sure I dont pack the substrate on the spoon before I fill it. I think the greatest cause for slow or stalled growth is that some people dont take care and stress thorugh the process, but then again; I still think I was mostly lucky the first times..

good luck!

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OfflineDeadPhan
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: danksrus]
    #17292475 - 11/27/12 06:33 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

danksrus said:
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
This is incorrect. 

The huge pieces of verm cause there to be far less substrate in each jar.  In addition, it holds less moisture so your jars will come out too wet.  Furthermore since the verm is so large, the brown rice flour settles out and collects on the bottom of the jar.  Course verm is drastically inferior to fine verm.
RR




RR,

You say that fine verm is "better suited for mycology use." Are you referring to everything mycology or just the PF tek?  I'm wondering what your thoughts are on coarse verm for bulk substrates...?  I'm guessing coarse will work just fine but is just not optimal?

Thanks!




Resurrecting this because this was never answered and I was curious of exactly the same thing.


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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: DeadPhan]
    #17292551 - 11/27/12 06:48 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I found horticulture grade is actually the fine type, like sand.. prefer not to use that.. i like mid-grade to large for me.. but then again, i just use WBS.. vermiculite plays no role in my grow anymore.


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OfflineTrippy_Smurf
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: boneynerd]
    #17309157 - 11/30/12 01:34 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:popcorn:


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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: Course Vermiculite Vs Fine Vermiculite...? [Re: boneynerd]
    #17309442 - 11/30/12 02:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

boneynerd said:
I found horticulture grade is actually the fine type, like sand.. prefer not to use that.. i like mid-grade to large for me.. but then again, i just use WBS.. vermiculite plays no role in my grow anymore.



They use all kinds of verm for horticultural purposes. It really depends on what they are growing and the type of soil it prefers. 

There are also industrial applications which it is used for such as swimming pools, packing, insulation, etc. They usually use coarse grade verm for these kinds of applications to the best of my knowledge. 


Gardening centers usually sell all three grades. Verm is very expensive at gardening centers so I get it at the local farmer supply.

To add insult to injury they have been bumping the price everywhere over the last year which definitely has gotten costly. It goes for about 1/3 more expensive than it was last year at this point around here.

Here are a few pics of the differences between grade....
Fine
Medium
course

Like RR mentioned earlier in the thread fine is the grade you want for mycology.

I actually use coarse verm but that is only because I use a mortar mixer to blend the ingredients for my substrate so the verm gets broken down into fine bits by the drill before I hydrate the sub.

For cakes you definitely want to use fine verm.... Casings too....

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