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Anonymous

the war
    #1381275 - 03/16/03 02:25 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

yes, it's about oil. saddam hussein was foolish enough to give bush an excuse to attack him. and now it looks like he's going to. of course it's about oil... and it's really too bad... but really... saddam has proliferated weapons in direct violation of his surrender agreements. the 'rest of the world' doesn't support the war... but it really doesn't matter... hussein has given bush every right to invade and replace him. we're gonna get his oil too, of course. i'm not happy about it... it'd be alot better for everyone if he didn't do what he's done. personally i think that there are better solutions than war in this matter... but i can certainly see how people could see otherwise. alot of people supporting this war are morons though. so are alot of the people against it.

i think that he could be forced to submit to more significant disarmament, and more thorough searches. given two months, i do think that inspectors could do a thorough sweep of his country and ensure that he has no illegal weapons. he's certainly in no position to use any weapons he may have at this time. after that's done, if our intelligence finds any solid proof of him manufacturing or buying illegal weapons in the future... he's done. no inspections, no concessions. i think that it's something that the 'international community' could agree on, and maybe, considering his current situation, even saddam himself.

going to war is risky dirty business. it could be quick and 'painless', or it could be catastrophic. either way, it will drastically increase anti-american sentiment around the world, fueling terrorist attacks on the US. but then... such attacks are a good excuse to scrap civil liberties (seize more power) and attack other nations.... so they care nothing of that... bush and company LIKE terrorism. the 'war on terror' serves them very well... just like the war on drugs used to work.. but people are getting fed up with it.

WMD's are an excuse... not a reason... but they're a fine excuse, and it's really too bad.


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Offlinemichroom
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Re: the war [Re: ]
    #1381399 - 03/16/03 03:19 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

How can we give Sadam another resolution? We already gave him his last chance with resoluiton 1441. If we don't enforce a previous resolution, why would Sadam think that we would enforce a new resolution? 1441 gave him 6 months to disarm and he has not done that. Prior to resolution 1441 Sadam was in violation of weapons inspections for 12 years. What makes you think that he will disarm in 2 months. Time for talk is over. Sadam has had his chance.


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: the war [Re: michroom]
    #1381406 - 03/16/03 03:22 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, but how can he disarm if he doesn't even have the WMD's that we are accusing him of having?


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Anonymous

Re: the war [Re: michroom]
    #1381420 - 03/16/03 03:26 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

unfortunately, there's nothing wrong with what you're saying. (except that it's 'saddam', not 'sadam').

the reason he should get another chance is because it could very well be a way to a peaceful solution to this problem. the idea of another resolution is that he'll either disarm... or we can go in and get him in a couple months, with the full support of the world and our allies, fully knowing that the war is completely necessary...


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Anonymous

Re: the war [Re: angryshroom]
    #1381426 - 03/16/03 03:29 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

does he have weapons or does he not have weapons?

i was under the impression that there is indeed solid evidence that he violated the conditions of his surrender and has (or had) possession of illegal weapons, which he tried to hide...

can someone clear this one up?


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Offlinemichroom
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Re: the war [Re: michroom]
    #1381456 - 03/16/03 03:43 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I really must respond more to your post. You don't think that saddam is capable of using his weapons? Do you want to wait until your family is on the floor choking from vx nerve agent before you see him as a threat?
Saddam has many more resources then Osama. Iraq is a ticking time bomb. Afghanistan was a time bomb and we all know what happend when it went off. We need to clean up Iraq because it is a threat to all of us. September 11th proved how dangerous a rouge nation can be. What more do you need?
As for the International community. Are you going to trust the French with your life? How about the Chinese or the Russians? They can't even handle themselves.
I can agree with you on one thing though. War is horriable.


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Anonymous

Re: the war [Re: michroom]
    #1381499 - 03/16/03 04:01 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Do you want to wait until your family is on the floor choking from vx nerve agent before you see him as a threat?

that would first require him to have the means to deploy VX gas, which he does not. he also does not have missiles capable of flying more than 200 miles. since my family lives nowhere near iraq, i don't think it's a problem. also... let me tell you... the threat of chemical and bio agents is greatly overstated. remember back when that group attacked a subway tunnel in japan with nerve gas? how many people died? and that was in a subway. nerve gas, as well as bio agents, are very technically advanced weapons and are difficult to actually deploy effectively. the only "weapons of mass destruction" available today are nuclear devices.

Saddam has many more resources then Osama.

well.. now that osama's in hiding, yes... but i think that before that... osama bin laden was in a better place to place terrorist attacks against the US than hussein is.

Iraq is a ticking time bomb.

so is north korea. so is china. so is pakistan\india. so is the united states.

We need to clean up Iraq because it is a threat to all of us.

how i ask, is it a threat? "pre-emptive attack" as a mode of self defense was soundly rejected in the wake of WW2 during the drafting of the nuremburg charter.

September 11th proved how dangerous a rouge nation can be

rogue nation. rogue. and the 9-11 attacks were carried out by a terrorist organization, not a nation.

What more do you need?

proof that there is no other option than this war. right now... i don't think we've exhausted all other options.

Are you going to trust the French with your life? How about the Chinese or the Russians? They can't even handle themselves.

no.

war should be a last resort. it hasn't come to that yet.







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Anonymous

Re: the war [Re: ]
    #1381502 - 03/16/03 04:03 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Saddam has not fufilled his end of the treaty endind the Gulf War, so he must be taken out.


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InvisibleObserver
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Registered: 01/26/03
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Re: the war [Re: ]
    #1381747 - 03/16/03 05:38 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Nobody's right, if everybody's wrong...


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: the war [Re: michroom]
    #1381892 - 03/16/03 06:53 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"Iraq is a ticking time bomb."

Lots of countries have weapons of mass destruction, Iraq is just one of them. Iraq hasn't even threatened us. They have attacked two countries in the past, Kuwait, and Iran. Both times they had a chance of winning, it was not a strategically moronic move (unless you factor in the US getting involved with Kuwait). There really isn't any good reason to think that Iraq will attack the US. They haven't done the slightest thing to give that impression. North Korea has, they've said that if the US attacks Iraq, then that's enough of a basis to believe that the US will attack them, so they'll use weapons of mass destruction against the US.

"Afghanistan was a time bomb and we all know what happend when it went off."

Afghanistan didn't do shit. If you had paid any attention, you'd realize that it was a group whose leader was hiding out in Afghanistan that carried out the Sept 11 attacks. Sure, the Afghani government may have supported this group to some extent, but it would have happened without them.

"September 11th proved how dangerous a rouge nation can be."

First off, it's rogue, secondly, a nation did not attack the US. It was a terrorist group. Made us of people. Like, if you and your friends got together and blew up the Eiffel Tower, that wouldn't be the US attacking France, that would be you and your friends attacking France, understand? Al Qaeda is not a country. That's why they kept saying "War on Terrorism", not "War on Afghanistan".

"Are you going to trust the French with your life? How about the Chinese or the Russians?"

Huh? Nobody is asking anyone to trust the French, the Russians, or the Chinese with their lives. What the fuck are you talking about?

"War is horriable."

Yeah, let's slaughter the Iraqi people so we don't have to go through with the horrors of terrorism. We wouldn't want Dan Rather to piss himself when he gets another powdery envelope.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: the war [Re: ]
    #1381929 - 03/16/03 07:13 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Lets face it people.

The US created a monster, yah I admit that its our fault.

Here weve got an open terrorist market for weapons of mass destruction and a man who creates them and is willing to sell them to the highest bidder.

If you dont believe that Sadam would sell liters of Anthrax or Botulism on the black market your crazy, if you dont believe that hes got small pox stored somewhere you may be right but you really wana take that risk?

Sadam needs to be stopped, Communism needs to be stopped.



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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: the war [Re: michroom]
    #1381954 - 03/16/03 07:31 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

We already gave him his last chance with resoluiton 1441

It was clearly understood that 1441 did not contain any justification for war. That's why it went through the UN.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: the war [Re: Anonymous]
    #1382493 - 03/17/03 04:19 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Saddam has not fufilled his end of the treaty endind the Gulf War, so he must be taken out.

we can. we have every right to. you could even argue that we have an obligation to. i don't think we should though. not right now, and not like this.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: the war [Re: ]
    #1382525 - 03/17/03 04:43 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

mushmaster writes:

we can. we have every right to. you could even argue that we have an obligation to. i don't think we should though. not right now, and not like this.

Some questions:

1) If the US doesn't take him out, who else will? Hell, when it comes to that, who else can?

2) If not right now, then when? In what way does delay help the situation? Is it better to just wait until he dies from natural causes? That might take twenty years.

3) If not "like this", then like how? Probably every person in the world who is aware of the situation has had plenty of time to think about alternate ways of removing Hussein from power and to publicize their views, but I have yet to see any feasible suggestion of how this can done without the use of force.

pinky


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: the war [Re: Phred]
    #1382727 - 03/17/03 06:03 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

If the US doesn't take him out, who else will?

This isn't Rambo IV. Innocent people are the ones who are going to get "taken out". It's more than likely Saddam will escape and live a happy life in another country.

If not right now, then when?

What exactly do you want? Do you want George Bush to have the god-given right to remove every dictator he doesn't like today? What about Turkey? Kuwait? Saudi Arabia? China? This has nothing to do with freeing the Iraqi people. If that was the case they would have invaded 25 years ago. Of course Bush and Rumsfield were too busy sucking Saddams cock then.

but I have yet to see any feasible suggestion of how this can done without the use of force.

The first thing you do is stop arming and funding dictators like Saddam in the first place. Then, amazingly enough, you don't have to wipe out thousands of innocent people to remove them from power. Removing Saddam and installing another vicious dictator isn't the way you do it. Look at Afghanistan - power has been removed from the Taliban and handed to the Northern Alliance warlords - considered worse than the Taliban by the majority of Afghans. The vast majority of Afghanistan has been abandoned to the warlords while the american army props up the puppet Karzai for as long as he serves a purpose. In 20 years we're going to have another silly bastard like Bush saying "We have to remove the Northern Alliance from power within 2 days".

DON'T INSTALL, FUND AND ARM DICTATORS IN THE FIRST PLACE THEN ALL OUR PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: the war [Re: Xlea321]
    #1382733 - 03/17/03 06:08 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

>>>>Do you want George Bush to have the god-given right to remove every dictator he doesn't like today>>>

There is new information being released by allies that Iraq was directly involved in training hijackers to take over planes with knives. If Iraq is mixed up with 9-11 we have every right to go to war.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: the war [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1382751 - 03/17/03 06:16 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I know they're releasing information, I just don't trust it. Bush is going to start an illegal war tomorrow with no UN support and little public backing. If i was in his shoes I'd be "releasing information" like a motherfucker too. It's called propaganda.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: the war [Re: Xlea321]
    #1382758 - 03/17/03 06:18 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

This isn't from White House sources. Spain made the break in the case.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: the war [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1382771 - 03/17/03 06:22 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah but Spain is in Bush's pocket.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: the war [Re: Xlea321]
    #1382783 - 03/17/03 06:26 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Not everything in the world is a conspiracy.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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