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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
If not welfare, then what?
    #1380523 - 03/16/03 10:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Not surprisingly, many conservatives on this board consider welfare and other social programs to be "stealing." So I just wanted to hear what they would favor instead to take care of those in dire circumstances. Do you really think charity donations are enough to keep people from starving? If so, do you have any facts to back you up? If not, what alternatives do you suggest? Or is it just fine with you if the poor starve?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (03/16/03 10:17 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,806
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1380726 - 03/16/03 11:39 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Work, charity, family. There has been shown to be a relationship between how much taxes are paid and the amount given to charity. Not much surprise that the more taxes, the less charity. I'd have to do a bit of searching though and I have no doubt you're capable enough to find the info.

It's not that I wish them to starve, it's just not my problem and between what I pay in taxes and give to charities, enough is enough.

Also, while I still wouldn't like it, one of my main objections is these programs when run by the feds, are unconstitutional.

Taking this one more step, how do you sift out the scumbags from the truly needy?

Also, welfare encourages brood-sows to pop kids out without having to worry about if they can even afford them.

It's a fucked up system which should be abolished.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/16/03 11:39 AM)


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1380854 - 03/16/03 12:24 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

How about a work for food program? Create a gubment agency that will oversee these workers. For example, the agency could put up flyers in welfare offices and homeless shelters for various work days, like "Monday is clean up highway19" then a needy person could show up to the designated location and work for his or her handout.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1380913 - 03/16/03 12:40 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I think that is a good idea, minus the Government agency part.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,806
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1380917 - 03/16/03 12:41 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There isn't a program out there that the gov can't fuck up.

The feds are prohibited from welfare programs anyway, even if that hasn't stopped them

It would need to be run by the states and they don't do much better than the feds.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1381950 - 03/16/03 07:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

For example, the agency could put up flyers in welfare offices and homeless shelters for various work days, like "Monday is clean up highway19"

Doesn't work. You simply get companies laying off all their proper workers and hiring slave labour. Puts more people out of work and still leaves people in poverty.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1381989 - 03/16/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

We need a relocation program to get people out of high poverty areas.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1382724 - 03/17/03 06:02 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Not all jobs that a company provides can be accomplished by a person without the proper education and training. If there were positions that could be done for cheaper costs, why shouldn't the corporations do it? Lower costs usually, not always, equates to a lower price for the consumer.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1383430 - 03/17/03 10:10 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

I assume that as nature takes its toll, the less fortunate (who are less fortunate for many reasons) and there genes will gradually be removed from the gene pool. Yes, you can therefore infer that our government and some of its programs are in fact devolving the human race by allowing these inferior and less productive members of society to leach off my initiative.


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"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


Edited by diggitydankman (03/17/03 10:12 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1383580 - 03/17/03 10:55 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The less fortunate die off and wonderful people like Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler survive?

Doesn't work like that man. Being successful doesn't mean you're a worthwhile person. As Primo Levi said about the people in the concentration camps - "The best of us died, the worst survived"


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinediggitydankman
No longer aCannabisConnoisseur

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Michgan
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1383693 - 03/17/03 11:27 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Hitler and the like all have extremely good genes. Dictators naturally must have persuassive powers and are good public speakers. This in itself does not make a person a bad person. Hitler developed the crazy Arian Race idea somewhere, but he very doubtfully would concoct the same notion in modern times. Use Hitler's genes and I am quite sure that in a capitalistic society he would develop into a succesful businessman. Also mathematical genuises like Einstein may flonder horribly in a modern society, as they prefer a more solitary lifestyle in which personal affairs are personal.


--------------------
"It's only wrong if you get caught.
If consequences dictate
my course of action
I should play GOD."

Maynard James Keenan, Tool


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Anonymous

Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: diggitydankman]
    #1384151 - 03/17/03 01:28 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

getting ahead in today's world has little to do with genetics.


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OfflineViveka
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Registered: 10/21/02
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Xlea321]
    #1384163 - 03/17/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

For example, the agency could put up flyers in welfare offices and homeless shelters for various work days, like "Monday is clean up highway19"

Doesn't work. You simply get companies laying off all their proper workers and hiring slave labour. Puts more people out of work and still leaves people in poverty.




I think creating incentive is the idea here. Seriously, how many companies exist that provide public services like cleaning up trash on the side of the road, or beautifying the community, or serving food to the homeless? Close to none, because public service like that doesn't generate much profit. Most of that sort of work is done by volunteers or people on probabtion, so why not offer the same work to the down and out or unskilled laborers. That way, the non-bearaucratic public service work gets done, the people who do it can have a better standard of living, and there is less leeching off the system.





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Anonymous

Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1384174 - 03/17/03 01:37 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

if anything....

i think that instead of getting a free ride, they should have to work on government projects like city beautification or cleaning up litter. i mean... us working taxpayers are still being forced to pay for something we don't want to pay for... but at least this way, we're getting something from it rather than paying people to do nothing.



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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: ]
    #1384389 - 03/17/03 02:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, look up, a little farther....right to my first post in this here thread. 

:tongue:


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: If not welfare, then what? [Re: Viveka]
    #1385550 - 03/17/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Seriously, how many companies exist that provide public services like cleaning up trash on the side of the road, or beautifying the community, or serving food to the homeless?

I've seen many people employed cleaning up litter. If it's a job that needs doing someone can be paid a living wage to do it. Using slave labour simply destroys genuine job creation and keeps people in poverty.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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