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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun
    #13799939 - 01/16/11 11:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Where do you draw the line?  Should every person of legal age be allowed to own an assault rifle?  What about a flamethrower?  A stick of dynamite?  A nuclear weapon?  At what point should we no longer be allowed to have a weapon?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13799974 - 01/16/11 11:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

at the point you prove yourself to be a danger to the public, that's where we draw the line

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13799993 - 01/16/11 11:23 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The point is where somebody with bigger/more guns coerces you into not getting one.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: DieCommie]
    #13800180 - 01/17/11 12:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
at the point you prove yourself to be a danger to the public, that's where we draw the line




What do you mean by "prove yourself to be a danger to the public"?  Take a sane, perfectly respectable middle-aged man who has no arrest record and no history of violent behavior.  Should he be allowed to own a stick of dynamite or a nuke?

Quote:

DieCommie said:
The point is where somebody with bigger/more guns coerces you into not getting one.




Heh, well I suspect that's what happens in actuality, but this is more of a philosophical question in that I'm asking what the laws should be.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #13800210 - 01/17/11 12:11 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
at the point you prove yourself to be a danger to the public, that's where we draw the line




What do you mean by "prove yourself to be a danger to the public"?  Take a sane, perfectly respectable middle-aged man who has no arrest record and no history of violent behavior.  Should he be allowed to own a stick of dynamite or a nuke?




I know several with dynamite and other blasting agents, shit, I can get my
permit for them based on current and previous occupations, they wont let
me have nukes though, not even low yield, something about how there's no
practical use on a farm

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13800214 - 01/17/11 12:12 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So you think the criteria for owning a dangerous device should involve practical use apart from just killing?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13800241 - 01/17/11 12:19 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
So you think the criteria for owning a dangerous device should involve practical use apart from just killing?





wow, so suddenly this has turned to 'everyone that has these things must be killers'

is dynamite only used for killing, arent hand guns used for also saving
lives, cant a flame thrower also have a practical use in fire prevention
or a semiautomatic be used for simple target practice and sport shooting?

havent nukes been used to curb many wars, saving millions of lives?

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: DieCommie]
    #13800726 - 01/17/11 03:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> The point is where somebody with bigger/more guns coerces you into not getting one.

Ding!

According to the US Constitution, there is no line.  However, those with the bigger/more guns (the US Government) has decided to set a line for the "benefit of society".


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: Seuss]
    #13801653 - 01/17/11 11:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You can lose that right by your actions.  Like committing a felony.  Or being declared incompetent.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: zappaisgod]
    #13801950 - 01/17/11 12:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> You can lose that right by your actions.  Like committing a felony.  Or being declared incompetent.

I must have missed that part.  I assume this applies to all rights?  People with certain felonies are no longer given the right to freedom of speech, or freedom of press, or freedom of religion?  Break the law and you are required to convert to Christianity?  Somebody declared incompetent is no longer granted protection from self incrimination?  Interesting...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: Seuss]
    #13801971 - 01/17/11 12:42 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"That right" was obviously only referring to the right to own weapons.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: Seuss]
    #13802055 - 01/17/11 12:59 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> You can lose that right by your actions.  Like committing a felony.  Or being declared incompetent.

I must have missed that part.  I assume this applies to all rights?  People with certain felonies are no longer given the right to freedom of speech, or freedom of press, or freedom of religion?  Break the law and you are required to convert to Christianity?  Somebody declared incompetent is no longer granted protection from self incrimination?  Interesting...



I know you aren't that obtuse.  You are aware that felons can lose the right to vote, right?  Similarly they can lose the right to own guns.  Free speech can also be restricted when it is abused, as in the case of harassing phone calls and such.  Further, someone declared incompetent is completely protected from self incrimination even if they choose to incriminate themselves.  Competent individuals have a right to incriminate themselves if they want to.  It happens quite often.  It's called confessing.  Incompetent people can't even do that.  Regarding religion you can be compelled to attend substance abuse programs.  Most of them are at least quasi-religious and quite a few blatantly religious.

If you fuck up you most certainly can lose rights.  Why, they can even put you in jail if you fuck up enough.  It happens.  Every day.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13803247 - 01/17/11 04:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
So you think the criteria for owning a dangerous device should involve practical use apart from just killing?





wow, so suddenly this has turned to 'everyone that has these things must be killers'




Where did I say that?  I'm just trying to determine reasonable criteria for allowing a citizen to own a weapon.  If a device's sole purpose is to kill someone (APART from self-defense) then should we be allowed to own it?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleTherian
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13803825 - 01/17/11 06:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

So you think the criteria for owning a dangerous device should involve practical use apart from just killing?




Funny, to the best of my knowledge the most dangerous device ( one that has killed exponentially more than guns) is an automobile. These most certainly are very efficient killing machines. Perhaps individuals should not be allowed to drive, as the potential for abuse does exist.
Quote:


Where did I say that?  I'm just trying to determine reasonable criteria for allowing a citizen to own a weapon.  If a device's sole purpose is to kill someone (APART from self-defense) then should we be allowed to own it?




That's extremely ignorant and presumptuous of you. Guns are not just used for killing people, and neither are cars, although both can do so. Many enjoy hunting, target shooting, skeet shooting( which I believe is even an Olympic sport), as a deterrent to violence ( Si vis pacem para bellum), as well as to blow dandy little holes into any adversary that wishes to do you great bodily harm. Perhaps if I ever reenlist I will purchase literature on how to end conflict through endless discourse and sanctions, as this always seems to save lives. Why should we be allowed to have guns? Perhaps du to the fact the supreme law of the land, the one which this country was based upon not only allows it but encourages it. Don't let a pesky little thing like the constitution get in your way though.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13803864 - 01/17/11 06:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
So you think the criteria for owning a dangerous device should involve practical use apart from just killing?





wow, so suddenly this has turned to 'everyone that has these things must be killers'




Where did I say that?  I'm just trying to determine reasonable criteria for allowing a citizen to own a weapon.  If a device's sole purpose is to kill someone (APART from self-defense) then should we be allowed to own it?





who determine's the 'sole purpose' of a device, I can use a gun for
killing people or for target practice, that seems like a dual purpose
device, dynamites 'sole purpose' is blasting rock but it could be used
to kill

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13804267 - 01/17/11 07:39 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If a device's sole purpose is to kill someone (APART from self-defense) then should we be allowed to own it?




Even if that were true (and it's clearly not, as pointed out by others in this thread) the answer would still be "yes".  Why should the government have a monopoly on the ability to kill?

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #13804307 - 01/17/11 07:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
If a device's sole purpose is to kill someone (APART from self-defense) then should we be allowed to own it?




Even if that were true (and it's clearly not, as pointed out by others in this thread) the answer would still be "yes".  Why should the government have a monopoly on the ability to kill?




So you'd be fine with letting your neighbors own biological weapons, bunker busters and/or nukes?


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OfflineShr00m0fD00m
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13806194 - 01/18/11 03:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Where do you draw the line?  Should every person of legal age be allowed to own an assault rifle?  What about a flamethrower?  A stick of dynamite?  A nuclear weapon?  At what point should we no longer be allowed to have a weapon?




You don't draw the line. Because average, sane people don't actively seek out nuclear or biological weapons. Nor do they have the funds to do so even if they wanted to.

Who does? Over inflated governments and international terrorists supported by said over inflated governments.

In a perfect world, no weapons would exist. But we don't live a perfect world, do we? We have leaders who incessantly prepare for war and, with each decade, our weaponry advances because of it.

You should give people the benefit of the doubt regardless of how many crazy people there are in the world. The alternative is Fascism.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: deCypher]
    #13806349 - 01/18/11 06:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
If a device's sole purpose is to kill someone (APART from self-defense) then should we be allowed to own it?




Even if that were true (and it's clearly not, as pointed out by others in this thread) the answer would still be "yes".  Why should the government have a monopoly on the ability to kill?




So you'd be fine with letting your neighbors own biological weapons, bunker busters and/or nukes?




Fuck no, I wouldn't live next to a nuclear or biological weapon storage facility no matter who ran it.

And "bunker busters", sure, why not?  Does my neighbor also have a bomber from which to deliver it?  I think all of these things are so far outside the realm of possibility as to be not worth considering.  Crappy bioweapons are maybe not too expensive or difficult to own, but I've been worried in the past about over-reaching bans on such materials infringing on one's right to conduct legitimate scientific research.  But like I implied above, if your activities are the source of a substantially increased risk to your neighbors just from accidents alone, they have a right to know about this, and if the affected community is against your actions, there are local zoning ordnances etc. to effectively prohibit such things.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: If you believe that every person of legal age has the right to own a gun [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #13806427 - 01/18/11 07:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
at the point you prove yourself to be a danger to the public, that's where we draw the line





Cool, where can I get my nuke?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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