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InvisibleParkseerf
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Intuition vs instinct
    #13785610 - 01/14/11 11:13 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Do you see a difference in the two? Why?


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Parkseerf]
    #13785634 - 01/14/11 11:17 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Yea, I think so.  Intuition is very much a conscious thought, and it doesnt necessarily have a physical action or manifestation.  Instinct is the opposite.  It is not a conscious thought and usually has a physical action or manifestation.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Parkseerf]
    #13785643 - 01/14/11 11:18 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Yep. Instinct is what makes me hungry, what makes me jump when I hear a bang and what makes me stare at women.

Intuition is similar to instinct in that it may be a sense, but its not hard wired by evolution. It might be a sense that I'm going to get the job after the interview, or that woman I was staring at is crazy...

One trys to control me, the other trys to inform me.


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Offlinesomaholiday
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Freedom]
    #13785693 - 01/14/11 11:26 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Intuition is something that develops over time as you become more knowledgable.  It is the culmination of knowledge informing your decisions spontaneously, where as instinct is more biological.

Perhaps intuition is a nurtured instinct?


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein


Edited by somaholiday (01/14/11 11:27 AM)


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InvisibleParkseerf
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Freedom]
    #13785703 - 01/14/11 11:28 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Yea, I think so.  Intuition is very much a conscious thought, and it doesnt necessarily have a physical action or manifestation.  Instinct is the opposite.  It is not a conscious thought and usually has a physical action or manifestation.




I agree

Quote:

Freedom said:


. It might be a sense that I'm going to get the job after the interview, or that woman I was staring at is crazy...

.




Would you think the woman is crazy after seeing/hearing her do/say something?


I know there is no way to tell but i wonder if intuition is the evolution of instinct.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: somaholiday]
    #13785766 - 01/14/11 11:39 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

the way I understand intuition is that we assign emotional/somatic representations to objects. These representations are not just random, they are somewhat organized. For example a lock might feel like it fits into a key. Also these representations are dynamic. For example an object behind me might be associated with a feeling of being behind me (spatial awareness), but then feel like its in front of me when its in front of me.

Thinking logically requires many steps of deduction/induction and requires a relatively large amount of focus and processing power, and the amount of time required to successfully deduct/induct may rise exponentially with the complexity of the problem. Our ability to process intuitively can happen in a split second.


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InvisibleParkseerf
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Freedom]
    #13785797 - 01/14/11 11:44 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
the way I understand intuition is that we assign emotional/somatic representations to objects. These representations are not just random, they are somewhat organized. For example a lock might feel like it fits into a key. Also these representations are dynamic. For example an object behind me might be associated with a feeling of being behind me (spatial awareness), but then feel like its in front of me when its in front of me.

Thinking logically requires many steps of deduction/induction and requires a relatively large amount of focus and processing power, and the amount of time required to successfully deduct/induct may rise exponentially with the complexity of the problem. Our ability to process intuitively can happen in a split second.




Indeed, its pretty amazing what the human mind is capable of.


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OfflinePeril_eyes
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Parkseerf]
    #13785882 - 01/14/11 12:02 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Instinct is projected genetic instruction.
Intuition is a word that we use to describe more recently acquired higher functions of the brain. More specifically, the right hemisphere.

People who use the right hemisphere more dominantly than the left, we call intuitive, ie, most women, artists, left handed people.
People who use the left more dominantly, we call analytical, ie, most men, scientists, right handed people.
People who have the ability to tap into the right hemisphere's power of metaphor, then bring the things they find there over to the left to be analyzed, we call them genius.

We all have and use instinct. It's our hard-wired programing.


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OfflineOverStoned
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Peril_eyes]
    #13786115 - 01/14/11 12:58 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

I believe that intuition is instinct.


--------------------
  IT'S ALL TOO MUCH


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InvisibleParkseerf
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: OverStoned]
    #13786142 - 01/14/11 01:05 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

OverStoned said:
I believe that intuition is instinct.




Why?


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Offlinedesert father
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Parkseerf]
    #13787327 - 01/14/11 05:19 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

yes intuition is instant knowledge, compulsory knowledge

instinct is a reaction


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Parkseerf]
    #13789014 - 01/14/11 11:14 PM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Parkseerf said:
Do you see a difference in the two? Why?




1st & 2nd chakra versus 6th & 7th chakra awareness.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: DieCommie]
    #13789343 - 01/15/11 12:55 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Intuition is very much a conscious thought...


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intuition
2a : immediate apprehension or cognition

How can immediate apprehension be consciously manifested? If the apprehension of something is immediate, then this means that there is no conscious thought involved in the apprehension itself because conscious thoughts occur over a span of time.


Quote:

DieCommie said:
...and it doesnt necessarily have a physical action or manifestation.  Instinct is the opposite.  It is not a conscious thought and usually has a physical action or manifestation.


If instinct were the opposite of that, then it would necessarily (not usually) have a physical action/manifestation; the opposite of 'doesn't necessarily have' is not 'usually has', it's 'does necessarily have'.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Poid]
    #13789358 - 01/15/11 01:00 AM (13 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

How can immediate apprehension be consciously manifested?




How can it not be?

I dont understand your second point at all.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: DieCommie]
    #13789541 - 01/15/11 02:00 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

How can immediate apprehension be consciously manifested?



How can it not be?


Immediate apprehension cannot result from conscious thought because conscious thoughts involved in the apprehension of something take time to form and be processed (e.g. in order to apprehend Spanish, people usually start with a beginner's course, then move onto an intermediate one, and then finally an expert one).


Quote:

DieCommie said:
I dont understand your second point at all.


Then I guess you don't understand what the term 'opposite' means. :shrug:

The opposite of the statement "it doesn't necessarily have a physical action or manifestation" is "it does necessarily have a physical action or manifestation". You claimed that instinct is the opposite of conscious thought, which you defined as being something that doesn't necessarily have a physical action or manifestation, while also maintaining that it (instinct) only usually has a physical action or manifestation; something that doesn't necessarily have a physical action or manifestation is not the opposite of something that only usually has a physical action or manifestation. If you believe it is, let's hear why.

Again, the opposite of something that doesn't necessarily have a physical action or manifestation would be something that does necessarily have a physical action or manifestation; since something that only usually has a physical action or manifestation doesn't necessarily have a physical action or manifestation (instinct), it's not the opposite of something that also does not necessarily have a physical action or manifestation (intuition). The opposite of something that usually has a physical action or manifestation would be something that doesn't usually have a physical action or manifestation; that something doesn't necessarily have a physical action or manifestation is no indication that it doesn't usually have a physical action or manifestation.


If you're still not getting this, then I would be interested in hearing how you figure that instinct is the opposite of intuition; specifically, I would like to know which qualities you believe intuition has that are opposite to qualities that instinct has.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleParkseerf
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Poid]
    #13790033 - 01/15/11 06:53 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Parkseerf said:
Do you see a difference in the two? Why?




1st & 2nd chakra versus 6th & 7th chakra awareness.




I would agree with that also, nice way of putting it.






Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Intuition is very much a conscious thought...


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intuition
2a : immediate apprehension or cognition

How can immediate apprehension be consciously manifested? If the apprehension of something is immediate, then this means that there is no conscious thought involved in the apprehension itself because conscious thoughts occur over a span of time.






Couldn't you say that instinct comes about like that also in certain situations? I would say intuition and instinct both come from immediate apprehension in a way and result in conscious thought.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Parkseerf]
    #13790575 - 01/15/11 10:46 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

specifically, I would like to know which qualities you believe intuition has that are opposite to qualities that instinct has.





I already posted it in my first post.  Immediate apprehension is conscious thought.  The fact that it is immediate is irrelevant to the fact that I am consciously aware of it.  For example I can see a nice set of tits and have an immediate conscious thought of lust - same idea.  I can hear a loud bang and jump with no conscious thought at all.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: DieCommie]
    #13790787 - 01/15/11 11:35 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

specifically, I would like to know which qualities you believe intuition has that are opposite to qualities that instinct has.





I already posted it in my first post.


You said they're opposites because one doesn't necessarily have a physical action, and the other usually does. That's not opposite, dude.

For example: a conscious thought that has a physical action or manifestation is not the opposite of an instinct that has a physical action or manifestation.


Quote:

DieCommie said:
Immediate apprehension is conscious thought.  The fact that it is immediate is irrelevant to the fact that I am consciously aware of it.


Conscious awareness is not necessarily the same thing as conscious thought (e.g. I can be consciously aware of my body without thinking about it).


Quote:

DieCommie said:
For example I can see a nice set of tits and have an immediate conscious thought of lust - same idea.


So you think an immediate conscious thought about something is the same thing as an immediate apprehension about something?


Quote:

DieCommie said:
I can hear a loud bang and jump with no conscious thought at all.


I agree that instincts are not conscious thoughts, but don't agree that intuition is something that people consciously cultivate (it just comes to people randomly in those "Aha!" moments), or that it is the opposite of instinct.




Quote:

Parkseerf said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Intuition is very much a conscious thought...


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intuition
2a : immediate apprehension or cognition

How can immediate apprehension be consciously manifested? If the apprehension of something is immediate, then this means that there is no conscious thought involved in the apprehension itself because conscious thoughts occur over a span of time.






Couldn't you say that instinct comes about like that also in certain situations?


Could you provide some examples?


Quote:

Parkseerf said:
I would say intuition and instinct both come from immediate apprehension in a way...


Intuition is immediate apprehension, it doesn't come from itself; instinctual responses are more like immediate reactions than instances of immediate apprehension.


Quote:

Parkseerf said:
...and result in conscious thought.


I agree that they both result in conscious thought.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: Poid]
    #13790844 - 01/15/11 11:50 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

I can be consciously aware of my body without thinking about it




I dont think you can.

con·scious   
[kon-shuhs]  Show IPA
–adjective
1.
aware of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.
2.
fully aware of or sensitive to something (often fol. by of ): conscious of one's own faults; He wasn't conscious of the gossip about his past.
3.
having the mental faculties fully active: He was conscious during the operation.
4.
known to oneself; felt: conscious guilt.
5.
aware of what one is doing: a conscious liar.
6.
aware of oneself; self-conscious.
7.
deliberate; intentional: a conscious insult; a conscious effort.
8.
acutely aware of or concerned about: money-conscious; a diet-conscious society.
9.
Obsolete . inwardly sensible of wrongdoing.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Intuition vs instinct [Re: DieCommie]
    #13790860 - 01/15/11 11:54 AM (13 years, 15 days ago)

Mind pointing out to me where in that definition it states that one can't be aware of something without thinking about it in words?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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