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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Fungi Perfecti my arse.
    #1374200 - 03/13/03 10:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I have been informed that some of the isolates being sold by fungi perfecti for the absolutely ridiculous price of $125 US are actually untested and quite poor.
Anyone know from experience?


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1374381 - 03/14/03 01:07 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

NO, but they do seem sketchy to me, selling those myco medicinals, which is basically just mycelium in a pill.


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"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1374388 - 03/14/03 01:14 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Who owns that site?


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The above is just like,my opinion man


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OfflineBruiser
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1374393 - 03/14/03 01:16 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Paul Stamets
-Bruiser


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Bruiser]
    #1374401 - 03/14/03 01:20 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

That's what I thought..................that means Stamet's is just a regular ol hustler?


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The above is just like,my opinion man


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OfflineBruiser
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1374420 - 03/14/03 01:34 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Couldn't say for sure. I don't have the $125 to shell out on a culture. I'd find it hard to believe though. He prides himself and his company on his cultures/spawn and their viability.
-Bruiser


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1374430 - 03/14/03 01:39 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Their prices are high because they offer support, free replacement & low P value. And because of Stamets fame. :tongue: But I don't beleive that they sell bad & untested strains.
Some of them are in circulation anyway and can be easily cloned from their cheap kits. 


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OfflineRadioActiveSlug
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: zeronio]
    #1374454 - 03/14/03 01:50 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, their kits are just big cultures, that are cheaper....hmmm


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"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
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OfflineBruiser
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Anonymous]
    #1374473 - 03/14/03 02:04 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Link to their sale agreement.
Fungi Perfecti
Someone else posted a response from FP when asked why they charge so much and the response was along the lines of what Zeronio said. Everything has documentation about the vitality and P scale value of the culture. FP's cultures are geared more towards the commercial side of the business, not really the home cultivator.
-Bruiser


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Bruiser]
    #1374871 - 03/14/03 04:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Would cloning from fruit body and reselling violate their limitations policy?


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OfflineBruiser
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1374901 - 03/14/03 04:43 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know. I suppose if you marketed it as a clone from one of the fruits from their culture without their permission, they might have something to say.
-Bruiser


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InvisibleMicronMagick
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst]
    #1374999 - 03/14/03 05:19 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Would cloning from fruit body and reselling violate their limitations policy?




YES!!!

BTW the cultures that they sell are really ment for commerial growers NOT home cultivators.


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OfflineBruiser
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: MicronMagick]
    #1375019 - 03/14/03 05:26 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BTW the cultures that they sell are really ment for commerial growers NOT home cultivators. 




That's what i was saying too. :smile: I'm sure the commercial growers can afford FP's prices and are more than happy to pay them for a guaranteed viable culture.
-Bruiser 


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1375069 - 03/14/03 05:38 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

they are not poor, that is my experience =)


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Invisiblepsyconaut
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1375612 - 03/14/03 08:56 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

FP sell reasonable products. Their cultures are meant for commercial spawn production. If you want a culture that you can do anything you like with, those are considerably more (I believe they were charging ~US$2000 last time I checked).

-psy


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: psyconaut]
    #1375813 - 03/14/03 10:09 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

aye, 1 year free replacement if you lose it, and you own it and can legally do whatever the fuck you want with it. Sell it, sell spawn, whatever.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinegordonoalberto23
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1375826 - 03/14/03 10:13 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

In theory one should be able to geminate spores off a fruiting body and then sell any strains that may arise.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: gordonoalberto23]
    #1375855 - 03/14/03 10:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

but that would place you in no different a place than any other spores. Spores have their genetics, and you'll have to isolate a strain from them anyhow. So you might as well get a print from any old place, or clone something.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1376128 - 03/14/03 11:56 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

$125 is not all that much, go to any strain library, such as the one at Penn State and you will see that they are comparable in cost, and in the case of FP, you are likely to get something that is atleast tested as to its ability to fruit. The cheapest I have seen strains offered is from Mushroom People at $50. The cheap culture syringes that you can get online are like nicked from FP or some other companies fruit-it-yourself kit. Most site specifically say that it is not okay if you isolate from their kits or sell spawn derived from an isolate that you purchased from them. I love nicking strains, and because they are from kits they are likely to be easy to fruit because they are sold to people that often know little about fungi.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1376137 - 03/14/03 11:59 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

well, there is only an agreement to purchase - if someone were to send you a wedge of mycellium - they would be violating the purchase agreement - not you. There's no patents or copywrites for strains, are there? I mean a purchase agreement doesn't go very far, and there are many ways around it. Not to mention is there ANY way for anyone to tell if you have "their" strain or not?


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1376383 - 03/14/03 02:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"well, there is only an agreement to purchase - if someone were to send you a wedge of mycellium - they would be violating the purchase agreement - not you. "

Yeah, I think you are right. However, I would not be so sure that there are not copyrights on SOME strains, I mean people (I mean multi billion dollar agrichemical corporations) copyright genetic material all the time, even single genes. It is a major point of contention between the West and other third world countries when folks come in and find genes or species in remote area that they then use and plant breeding programs and copyright the genes with no recomp to the country or region in which it was derived. Presumably if you had a strain that did something really amazing that no one else had you could legally protect it, especially if you were making money off of it and it was a rare or never before seen trait. However, you would never see those strains up for sale, ever, I imagine.

As far as telling if someone had so and so's strain, they would probably have to have some sort of molecular marker indicative of their strain. Of course that is an awful lot of work and it is not something that a person is likely to do for strains that they make available to the public.



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Offlinedaba
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1376498 - 03/14/03 03:06 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Anyways, I bought a oyster grow kit from them to get my edible cultures started. I have no experience with edibles whatsoever.

Their customer support is good and readily availible. I plan on using this straw after it's done to inoculate more straw :smile:.

Their flow hoods are pricey though.

regards,
daba


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1376796 - 03/14/03 05:53 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

My point was that you cannot guarantee the viability of many of the species he is offering - Volvariella Volvacea as an example is never cultivated from isolate, as they nearly always lose their viability after on generation and within a month or two. This means that new multi-spore is constantly required to re-invigorate. If he has tested this isolate and its aged more than a few monthes, it wont be viable and you'd be better of clonign your own from the wild.
Sure he might provide all sorts of info, but you cannot guarantee that one isolate is going to perform.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1376805 - 03/14/03 05:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I dont understand the point people are making about FP being relatively cheap compared to other spore libraries. My experience with spore libraries is that again, you better off isolating your own from a wild print.
I think they are all rip-offs.


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1377472 - 03/15/03 04:31 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

some people prefer ease.

It's a few week turnaround for an isolate. If you're looking for business purposes, you might just end up getting a culture.


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1425900 - 04/03/03 11:04 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I do grow small scale, and I do think FP is about double the price they should be. Mushroompeople cultures are $45 - I can't afford to buy a name. I'm sure Paul's are great but it's more of a sucker's market to me than "for commercial growers" - that is incorrect thought. Commercial growers are actually out to pay much less and economize - names make catalogs but sense floats the boat. FP caters to the brand new enthusiast and hopeful commercial cultivator more than anything I think.


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1425950 - 04/03/03 11:18 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Mushroom People certainly have good prices for their cultures. However Stamet's prices are not out of line if you consider that your standard culture library charges about the same amount for any strain of fungus that they have with NO isolate testing.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1432641 - 04/05/03 10:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think the whole industry is highly over-priced.


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Anonymous

Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1432829 - 04/06/03 12:46 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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OfflinePaid
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: ]
    #1432949 - 04/06/03 03:11 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yep cloned food grade and wild picked mushrooms and cultures from the great people on this site :-) make paying $125 for a culture a little bit silly :smile:


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: ]
    #1433060 - 04/06/03 07:10 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I never said it was inexpensive, my point was is that his prices are not out of line with what is out there. Yes, many of us do have an idea of how easy it is to clone a wild species, and that might be all that many of us ever need to do. Others may want to be working with something that is characterized and has the guarntee of a company behind it. Many of us may or may not be familiar with how one needs to test a strain to ensure that it is good. That takes time, and materials, and that takes money. The strains at Fungi Perfecti have atleast been evaluated Further, when you deal with spawn library or Fungi Perfecti it is not as if they have produce culture from thin air. They have to store them, lots of them, perhaps devote and entire walk-in to them. From time to time the cultures must be tranfered to new slants depending on the storage method, more time, more material, data entry, and so on, more money.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1433141 - 04/06/03 09:11 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I bet that he also has to get something back for the many years he invested into this. I knew nothing about cloning & growing mushrooms until I read his books. It's easy now when we can get and share all the information.


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InvisibleMushMushi
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: zeronio]
    #1433354 - 04/06/03 11:40 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I believe that the home mushroom grower doesn't really need any expensive or ultra-performant strains/cultures and all the fancy equipement they offer.
Perhaps their books  :tongue: (which I still don't have *yet* ).
And I think that people sharing/trading  their cultures and strains is way off better than anything else!
:grin: 


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: MushMushi]
    #1433360 - 04/06/03 11:48 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I agree.
I think one should only buy these strains if one wants to earn money with growing mushrooms.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Anno]
    #1434204 - 04/06/03 07:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

...Or if one has no friend, or can't make trade - some folks not very shary. Sometimes that one you want just has to be bought because you don't have another good access....I still think you've really got to shop though. There are people selling them out there for $10 the same as $125 - and they'll back 'em up too. I always prefer the home artist because they are into their art for love not the "eminence front" of commercialism.


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Edited by curenado (04/06/03 07:56 PM)


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Anno]
    #1434309 - 04/06/03 08:28 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

agreed


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1436372 - 04/07/03 01:57 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't read all through this post, so this may have been said already(too high to read) But you get the rights to produce and sell these heavy-producing commercial strains, developed specificaly for commercial growing, the same strains are probably in the kits, but legally you can't sell the culture or mushrooms(I don't think).


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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1438402 - 04/08/03 04:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

And ill reiterate my point that you can not guarantee that some of these strains in isolate will perform any better than your own cultured from wild specimens.
Again how can you charge $125 american for an isolate of a Volvaria species when the genetics of its mycelia degrades rapidly and within a month or so fruits ten times worse than a direct multi spore innoculation.
I guarantee that if i was looking at producing this mushroom - just as an example - commercially id be doing what all the asian cultivators do and only using multispore innoculations from very fresh cultures and then continuing this line rather than forking out $125.00


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1438676 - 04/08/03 08:34 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yesum. With paddy's you can get away with substrate to substrate innocs. once or twice, but you must continually renew and you cannot refrigerate.
I'll also reiterate that you can get the same service for $45 (even if you think that's hihg like I do) that they are hustling for $125. I was trying to be sweet before, but you mean there is a person who really believes all that falsely superior HORSE CRAP that makes vain people and suckers pay all that extra to feel they've gotten "the best"???
That's why I said - a suckers market for vain newbies who are buying nothing more than over priced image, because they have more money than brains and don't know mushrooms or marketing.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Edited by curenado (04/08/03 12:53 PM)


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1438692 - 04/08/03 08:40 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

<<They have to store them, lots of them, perhaps devote and entire walk-in to them. From time to time the cultures must be tranfered to new slants depending on the storage method, more time, more material, data entry, and so on, more money. >>
So? Everybody has to do this all the time - come's with the turf....
Dude, they're going to hell face it! :smile: :smile:
Actually - I just noticed the thread and couldn't resist giving the 'ol cons a jab!
If this guy feels spesh to know or deal with them it's cool with me. I'm not saying I won't, but it's my last choice. (I did just pay them actually! not $125 of course...)
Freebie people are just as bizarre or worse - look around this place. Some of these folks won't take a trade or a dollar for a spore - they want to buy their "elite entourage" with it and only "share" with their adoring clique of licky puppies - so you see it doesn't have to be rich to be tiny, greedy and silly! :smile:



--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


Edited by curenado (04/08/03 08:43 AM)


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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439136 - 04/08/03 11:52 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You seem to be long on opinions. I guess I am surprised to see such an insulting tone toward some one that has brought out so much information on the cultivation of edibles and the is genuinely interested in icreasing holistic awareness of the role that fungi can play in agriculture, food and medicine in western culture. So "jab away", but it does you a disservice. Being in the business that you are in you have surely benefited in some way the from information that has been made available via the "old cons".

This talk seems centered on 125 dollar cultures. I never said the cultures were not expensive I certainly would not buy them, but I am aware of and gave some valid reason for why the cultures might be expensive. However, ask yourself "are the other things, his kits, and spawn overly expensive?". They seem roughly in line with what is out there, certainly not as "overpriced" as the pure cultures. Further his lab equipment ranges from moderately higher to less expensive than the same items from other suppliers. So is he really trying to screw the newbies? I doubt it. Maybe the cultures are priced so as to exclude newbies. No home cultivator needs those 125 dollar cultures. They are likely more valuable to the serious cultivator who wants a strain that has been partially or fully evaluated and is backed by a company. Regardless of what you say, have assuredness in a strain is valuable. Providing this assuredness costs money.


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OfflineBruiser
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1439215 - 04/08/03 12:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Well said.
-Bruiser


--------------------
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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1439343 - 04/08/03 12:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

<<I never said the cultures were not expensive I certainly would not buy them>>
Then why are you recommending what you wouldn't want to buy? We have and do pay them money - Paul's class is 1,000.00 - we have classes for $10 + your supplies.....Cost is not necessarily a measure of integrity or quality....and I deal with students, poor people, farmers - people who don't have money to waste on vanities or supporting other vendors when we have vendors who actually have played a part in the "better for all" thing. FP did donate two copies of "Mycomedicals" for the school - and I'm not trying to slam or over criticise them - to speak the truth is not slander. Don't you think they are laughing all the way to the bank? I have kids to feed too, and they ain't even mine!

<<They are likely more valuable to the serious cultivator who wants a strain that has been partially or fully evaluated and is backed by a company.>>
But that's not a matter of price - it's a matter of integrity. You seem to be saying that people who do the sharing and the good work are cheaper? less quality? less "gaurantees"? That is wrong - it is an illusion. You can't purchase integrity or real quality for any price - it's either there or not. No one doubts the quality of FP - but people aren't agreeing with you that FP is any better than any other quality and more reasonably priced vendor.
Some folks have it to spend and bless 'em, OK? But folks shouldn't be taught that presentation and price are signatures in and of themselves, and they should be aware that there are numerous other eqaully fine alternatives. Including even grassroots food and cancer projects - we had to waste enough stuff that would make newbies and poor people cry, but nowhere to send it.....)
You mention my condition, and yeah - you can have one of Jesus' cultures for the asking - but he can't afford your dish, agar or postage - which is the real cost - and he says "Why are you selling medicine and food to each other anyway? I taught you better - "

<< Regardless of what you say, have assuredness in a strain is valuable. Providing this assuredness costs money.>>
No, not really. That is what everyone is saying - and I think really all other jabs have resulted from this central point. It just does not cost that kind of money to do - but I don't want to go on like this...... I'm sorry I even opened my mouth! Paul made a lot of money off psybe literature it's true, and he has made more than substantial contributions to mycoculture and mycomedicine even by publishing compilations of other's work. I figured he was big enough to take a poke or two - he knows about himself like all of us. It's just funny to us that as we prosper in a thing and it grows, it seems that quality and availability goes up and cost goes down???? Leave it to monks to ruin everything.........


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439362 - 04/08/03 12:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I was looing over your words again - I think I can appreciate Paul & FP's talents and abide their weaknesses (as any might perceive them...) but I'm not lost in unrealistic wroship. I think being on the commercial and service side spares me that "I love you vendor!!!" thing that ruins objectivity and makes for misshevahs like this....I don't think anyone was trying to be as aggressive or hateful as you seem to be sensitive and defensive. I hope as it goes on that heroes and gaurantees don't dissapoint. You are a great ad man though - even if you won't buy what you're selling.....


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439399 - 04/08/03 01:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

This is "off-argument" but - paddy's got mentioned in this (and a good example..) but it occured to me - the way they run and cross-innoc. and speed etc. - when you think about it aren't paddys the most almost-more-like-a-disease mushroom? Something about how fast they run and quick they go out just makes me think more of a virus we run after to keep up with than a plant we farm. Very popular, canable and saleable but we have a brother who's just revolted of them because of the way they grow and look....don't bother me! Throw that rotting straw around and eat 'em up! Wierd embryonic lookin things..... :smile:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439465 - 04/08/03 01:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm. Interesting. I am sensitive and defensive because I present an opinion in repsonse to yours. Maybe we fit the same shoes. I never claimed that price guarntees quality. I have not seen proof that expensive strains are better, nor have I seen proof that cheaper strains are equal, better or inferior. To tell the truth, my best strains are ones that I have isolated from the wild, or recieved through trade. FP gets the least of my business of any supply company out there, I shop for the deals plain and simple.

The point that you seemed to have missed is that I have simply been trying to give reasonable reasons as to the cost of the cultures. You may as well include fungal isolate depositories in your critique of the costs involved, because those strains as well, evaluated or not are over 100 dollars, and those are gov. facilities. I think my reasons are still valid. I think there is obvious anger and resentment in your tone that may be coloring your responses. Your insinuation of hero worship are misplaced on me, probably because I am not agreeing with you.

It sounds like you do great things in your region. Good for you. I am doing a large public outreach display on growing edible fungi in the yard this weekend, aimed at the home owner as well as the primary and secondary educator. Do you sell kits and spawn mailorder? If so perhaps I can include your website on the list along with the Mushroom People, FP, and some others.


--------------------
Listen! Do you smell something?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1441456 - 04/09/03 12:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think that few years ago that kind of prices for cultures were normal. The knowledge that Stamets spread around resulted in lowering of prices.
ATCC sells cultures for 150$: http://www.atcc.org/SearchCatalogs/Fungi_Yeasts.cfm


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1445757 - 04/10/03 04:59 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Your posts are not emotive for me because the points are redudant. Because everyone in the industry likes to charge outrageous prices its okay for Stamets to do it?
'Regardless of what you say, have assuredness in a strain is valuable. Providing this assuredness costs money. '
ANd regardless of what you say - assuredness in a strain doesnt mean shit when you CANNOT guarantee the viability of some of these mushrooms!!!


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Offliner05c03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1445859 - 04/10/03 06:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Your point is redundant


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1447023 - 04/10/03 02:35 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I do believe he guarantees all his strains, do you have proof otherwise?


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1447145 - 04/10/03 03:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

"Fungi Perfecti will replace a culture if defective or should you lose it within one year of purchase at no additional charge."


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Invisibleshaggymane
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1447376 - 04/10/03 04:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

this is true


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1447835 - 04/10/03 07:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Im sure he guarantees them, but that is not my point.
serious mushroom cultivators do the research and usually obtain their own cultures from wild specimens which they isolate and test for many generations. I know two people who are in the industry and neither of them considered buying from a culture library.
How can this be redudant:
Person A charges you a high price for a culture of a mushroom that he guarantees will be viable.
But research by the recipient before the purchase demonstrates that it is impossible biologically to guarantee the viability of this mushroom.
Its like guaranteeing that it wont rain on a certain day two years from now - sure you can guarantee it.
You blind 'but he guarantees it' comments are redudant and im suprised that some of the points here havent demonstrated that fact.
Stamets guarantees viability of Volvaria species. All cultivation information available on this mushroom AND all practise of commercial farmers indicates that you CANNOT guarantee the viability of this mushroom in culture.


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Invisibletrade_om
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Registered: 10/19/03
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2756554 - 06/02/04 11:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hehehe. I did a search and found this thread. And I just have to reply.
First off, I do think 125$ is expensive for cultures, but I also think that if the culture is good and will produce good yields for the commercial grower than the price is alright.
About the Volvariella volvacea mushroom - it is true that it degenrates very fast, and that it cannot be frozen regularly cause it will die, but , and I dont know if you know this, it can be flash freezed in liquid nitrogen and revived later on. This can be done to keep the first culture stored, and then every time you want to clone it you just take it out of the nitrogen, clone return to nitrogen and viola - you have a cloned fruitable healthy culture. But considering that Stamets no longer sells Volvariella v. cultures maybe he did runi nto troubles with it... I dont know.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2756627 - 06/02/04 11:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

if $125 was too expensive for cultures, then nobody would buy them at that price... obviously the customers are paying it... and i'm sure anyone with web access to view paul's site can just as easily view the cheaper sites, yet they still choose to buy from paul... you can call it vanity or false faith in a brand name but the fact is that the brand name and paul's reputation add to the value of the product, even though they don't necessarily add to the functionality of the product...


paul worked hard building that reputation and the brand name, probably just as hard or even harder than he worked on the cultures... so why shouldn't he be compensated for this work?


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Invisibletrade_om
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2756967 - 06/02/04 01:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

thumbs up for mike!


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Invisiblematts
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: trade_om]
    #2757008 - 06/02/04 02:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlinegordonoalberto23
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: matts]
    #2775958 - 06/08/04 08:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The price wouldn't even be an issue if you could sell the spawn.
I think and at least he claims that the strains are patented. The spores are not patented, so any cultures arising from spores taken from fruit bodys should be unrestricted.


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Invisiblebrainbreath
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2780195 - 06/10/04 03:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I?ve purchased a couple cultures from FP, I have found them to perform very well. The shiitake culture I purchased consistantly yields large fruits( 6-7" wide caps) These oysters are from stamets. I paid $125 for the culture, and in one run made $7200 I have no complaints.

  Try buying from penn state, with the cost of the culture and the bs fees they tack on it?ll cost you $195. I would buy them elsewhere, I have purchased almost all of the edible syringes sporeworks has to offer, I would like to buy from Mushroompeople, but until they have online ordering it won?t happen, ?cause I?m lazy like that. They need to catch up to the 21st century. :wink:


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Invisibleivi
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #2781198 - 06/10/04 11:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
Paul's class is 1,000.00 - we have classes for $10 + your supplies.....




Considering the safety level at Stamets' courses :laugh:



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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: brainbreath]
    #2808274 - 06/19/04 03:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

brainbreath said:
These oysters are from stamets. I paid $125 for the culture, and in one run made $7200 I have no complaints.






That`s the way I understand it.


--------------------
Derrayld and out of control


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Invisiblephalcon005

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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #5827954 - 07/06/06 02:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Whew, this thread has bounced all over the place. Originally there was discussion on user agreements with Stamets and selling the spawn/cultures you get from him. Here's my two cents. I've read up all over his webpage and his catalog and you abide by a user's agreement when you buy spawn and cultures, not his fruiting blocks. Personally if I wanted something like his Shiitake I'd just buy a block, fruit it and clone the fruits. There is NOTHING that comes with those kits hinting at user agreements, so I wouldn't feel bound to anything.

As for my own experience it comes from his reishi. I ordered some needed lab supplies and got a free packet of 100 reishi plugs with the order. Have I cloned them? Heck yeah. Personally I plan on growing up all the reishi I need, and would give away the culture to anyone who asks. I never signed an agreement to get that free packet.

As for the confusion on patents and copyrights, none of his strains are covered by either of these. Patents would be the best case if he could do it, but you would have to DNA fingerprint your strains (which hasn't been done). Furthermore, even patent coverage is to be inforced strictly by the patent owner, and currently there is no sure way to identify his strains. This is actually considered a problem by some, if one could patent strains there would be more of an incentive to produce very good strains, but currently all one has to do is buy one of your mushrooms at market and they have it.

Pardon the babbling, but I wouldn't be afraid of the dark or Stamet's hunting you down unless you solidly agreed to his user agreements and later broke them. His case is more like a company trade secret than a patent in my opinion, he attempts to police the strains he offers, but can't persue someone who clones from his fruitbodies or grows cultures from their spores.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: phalcon005]
    #5841576 - 07/10/06 07:02 AM (14 years, 29 days ago)

Cloning a mushroom from the store or a kit is not the same as having a culture with a low p value. The mycelium in the kits has been grown out and expanded about as far as it can go. Senescense is already kicking in by the time the kits fruit. Clone an oyster or shiitake from a kit or the grocery store and you'll get poor results. Reishi is perhaps a lone exception due to its vigor and long life in the forest.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5841898 - 07/10/06 10:18 AM (14 years, 29 days ago)

Its like any other buisness. Supply and demand. He doesn't want to waste his time or spend the money having someone making cultures to only sell them for 20 a peace. You don't need to buy the cultures from him but if you wan't the conveniance you got to pay out the arse.

The mycological department at Penn State offers cultures for 125$ Thats from a univerity no less. http://mushroomspawn.cas.psu.edu/Collection.htm


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5841911 - 07/10/06 10:24 AM (14 years, 29 days ago)

But taking a clone of a clone then fruiting and isolating spores of that fruit and growing those out solves the problem of a shitty first culture weather old kit grown mushroom or one taken from a supermarket.


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Invisiblemicololo2
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: phalcon005]
    #5843199 - 07/10/06 04:33 PM (14 years, 29 days ago)

I've bought in the past (about 5 years ago)in vitro cultures from Stamets, and others from another mycologist (less knowned, he didn't wrote books but got a lot of experience) and I never saw a difference in the yields or in the quality between those two, only in the price, 5 times more expensive. He made his reputation by writing good books and use it to make big money selling at high high price. It works, so ...


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #5844026 - 07/10/06 07:49 PM (14 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
But taking a clone of a clone then fruiting and isolating spores of that fruit and growing those out solves the problem of a shitty first culture weather old kit grown mushroom or one taken from a supermarket.




It does, but you're likely to spend years isolating a good fruiting strain from spores. I have tons of oyster prints, but have never had anywhere near the success with them that I get from cloning wild mushrooms and growing them out. That's what paul and the others do as well. I've never gotten one single fruit of shiitake from spores. Same with portabellos. Keeping viable clones becomes a problem after twenty years or so, no matter how good one is at storing cultures. They degrade and must be replaced with new ones.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5844121 - 07/10/06 08:11 PM (14 years, 29 days ago)

Yeah i agree collecting your own is the way to go. But to bad paddy straw, shiitake, and king oyster dont grow or havn't been found to grow in my area.


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Offlineblackmorelman
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #5854429 - 07/13/06 11:48 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

I think I remember reading something by Stamets personally that said something to the effect of,


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