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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 383
Loc: Indiana, US
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439136 - 04/08/03 11:52 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You seem to be long on opinions. I guess I am surprised to see such an insulting tone toward some one that has brought out so much information on the cultivation of edibles and the is genuinely interested in icreasing holistic awareness of the role that fungi can play in agriculture, food and medicine in western culture. So "jab away", but it does you a disservice. Being in the business that you are in you have surely benefited in some way the from information that has been made available via the "old cons".

This talk seems centered on 125 dollar cultures. I never said the cultures were not expensive I certainly would not buy them, but I am aware of and gave some valid reason for why the cultures might be expensive. However, ask yourself "are the other things, his kits, and spawn overly expensive?". They seem roughly in line with what is out there, certainly not as "overpriced" as the pure cultures. Further his lab equipment ranges from moderately higher to less expensive than the same items from other suppliers. So is he really trying to screw the newbies? I doubt it. Maybe the cultures are priced so as to exclude newbies. No home cultivator needs those 125 dollar cultures. They are likely more valuable to the serious cultivator who wants a strain that has been partially or fully evaluated and is backed by a company. Regardless of what you say, have assuredness in a strain is valuable. Providing this assuredness costs money.


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Listen! Do you smell something?


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OfflineBruiser
Fuel Injected Suicide Machine

Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 15,255
Loc: Hell
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1439215 - 04/08/03 12:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Well said.
-Bruiser


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-I put the chrome to your dome


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Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,601
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1439343 - 04/08/03 12:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

<<I never said the cultures were not expensive I certainly would not buy them>>
Then why are you recommending what you wouldn't want to buy? We have and do pay them money - Paul's class is 1,000.00 - we have classes for $10 + your supplies.....Cost is not necessarily a measure of integrity or quality....and I deal with students, poor people, farmers - people who don't have money to waste on vanities or supporting other vendors when we have vendors who actually have played a part in the "better for all" thing. FP did donate two copies of "Mycomedicals" for the school - and I'm not trying to slam or over criticise them - to speak the truth is not slander. Don't you think they are laughing all the way to the bank? I have kids to feed too, and they ain't even mine!

<<They are likely more valuable to the serious cultivator who wants a strain that has been partially or fully evaluated and is backed by a company.>>
But that's not a matter of price - it's a matter of integrity. You seem to be saying that people who do the sharing and the good work are cheaper? less quality? less "gaurantees"? That is wrong - it is an illusion. You can't purchase integrity or real quality for any price - it's either there or not. No one doubts the quality of FP - but people aren't agreeing with you that FP is any better than any other quality and more reasonably priced vendor.
Some folks have it to spend and bless 'em, OK? But folks shouldn't be taught that presentation and price are signatures in and of themselves, and they should be aware that there are numerous other eqaully fine alternatives. Including even grassroots food and cancer projects - we had to waste enough stuff that would make newbies and poor people cry, but nowhere to send it.....)
You mention my condition, and yeah - you can have one of Jesus' cultures for the asking - but he can't afford your dish, agar or postage - which is the real cost - and he says "Why are you selling medicine and food to each other anyway? I taught you better - "

<< Regardless of what you say, have assuredness in a strain is valuable. Providing this assuredness costs money.>>
No, not really. That is what everyone is saying - and I think really all other jabs have resulted from this central point. It just does not cost that kind of money to do - but I don't want to go on like this...... I'm sorry I even opened my mouth! Paul made a lot of money off psybe literature it's true, and he has made more than substantial contributions to mycoculture and mycomedicine even by publishing compilations of other's work. I figured he was big enough to take a poke or two - he knows about himself like all of us. It's just funny to us that as we prosper in a thing and it grows, it seems that quality and availability goes up and cost goes down???? Leave it to monks to ruin everything.........


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,601
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439362 - 04/08/03 12:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I was looing over your words again - I think I can appreciate Paul & FP's talents and abide their weaknesses (as any might perceive them...) but I'm not lost in unrealistic wroship. I think being on the commercial and service side spares me that "I love you vendor!!!" thing that ruins objectivity and makes for misshevahs like this....I don't think anyone was trying to be as aggressive or hateful as you seem to be sensitive and defensive. I hope as it goes on that heroes and gaurantees don't dissapoint. You are a great ad man though - even if you won't buy what you're selling.....


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,601
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439399 - 04/08/03 01:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

This is "off-argument" but - paddy's got mentioned in this (and a good example..) but it occured to me - the way they run and cross-innoc. and speed etc. - when you think about it aren't paddys the most almost-more-like-a-disease mushroom? Something about how fast they run and quick they go out just makes me think more of a virus we run after to keep up with than a plant we farm. Very popular, canable and saleable but we have a brother who's just revolted of them because of the way they grow and look....don't bother me! Throw that rotting straw around and eat 'em up! Wierd embryonic lookin things..... :smile:


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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."


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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 383
Loc: Indiana, US
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #1439465 - 04/08/03 01:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm. Interesting. I am sensitive and defensive because I present an opinion in repsonse to yours. Maybe we fit the same shoes. I never claimed that price guarntees quality. I have not seen proof that expensive strains are better, nor have I seen proof that cheaper strains are equal, better or inferior. To tell the truth, my best strains are ones that I have isolated from the wild, or recieved through trade. FP gets the least of my business of any supply company out there, I shop for the deals plain and simple.

The point that you seemed to have missed is that I have simply been trying to give reasonable reasons as to the cost of the cultures. You may as well include fungal isolate depositories in your critique of the costs involved, because those strains as well, evaluated or not are over 100 dollars, and those are gov. facilities. I think my reasons are still valid. I think there is obvious anger and resentment in your tone that may be coloring your responses. Your insinuation of hero worship are misplaced on me, probably because I am not agreeing with you.

It sounds like you do great things in your region. Good for you. I am doing a large public outreach display on growing edible fungi in the yard this weekend, aimed at the home owner as well as the primary and secondary educator. Do you sell kits and spawn mailorder? If so perhaps I can include your website on the list along with the Mushroom People, FP, and some others.


--------------------
Listen! Do you smell something?


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Offlinezeronio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
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Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1441456 - 04/09/03 12:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I think that few years ago that kind of prices for cultures were normal. The knowledge that Stamets spread around resulted in lowering of prices.
ATCC sells cultures for 150$: http://www.atcc.org/SearchCatalogs/Fungi_Yeasts.cfm


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: r05c03]
    #1445757 - 04/10/03 04:59 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Your posts are not emotive for me because the points are redudant. Because everyone in the industry likes to charge outrageous prices its okay for Stamets to do it?
'Regardless of what you say, have assuredness in a strain is valuable. Providing this assuredness costs money. '
ANd regardless of what you say - assuredness in a strain doesnt mean shit when you CANNOT guarantee the viability of some of these mushrooms!!!


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Offliner05c03
The Slug Scourge
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 383
Loc: Indiana, US
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1445859 - 04/10/03 06:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Your point is redundant


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Listen! Do you smell something?


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OfflineRaadt
nicht

Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 2,107
Loc: azurescending
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1447023 - 04/10/03 02:35 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I do believe he guarantees all his strains, do you have proof otherwise?


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Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinerommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
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Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1447145 - 04/10/03 03:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

"Fungi Perfecti will replace a culture if defective or should you lose it within one year of purchase at no additional charge."


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Invisibleshaggymane
PHARMER

Registered: 03/11/02
Posts: 514
Loc: great white north
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: rommstein2001]
    #1447376 - 04/10/03 04:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

this is true


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Raadt]
    #1447835 - 04/10/03 07:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Im sure he guarantees them, but that is not my point.
serious mushroom cultivators do the research and usually obtain their own cultures from wild specimens which they isolate and test for many generations. I know two people who are in the industry and neither of them considered buying from a culture library.
How can this be redudant:
Person A charges you a high price for a culture of a mushroom that he guarantees will be viable.
But research by the recipient before the purchase demonstrates that it is impossible biologically to guarantee the viability of this mushroom.
Its like guaranteeing that it wont rain on a certain day two years from now - sure you can guarantee it.
You blind 'but he guarantees it' comments are redudant and im suprised that some of the points here havent demonstrated that fact.
Stamets guarantees viability of Volvaria species. All cultivation information available on this mushroom AND all practise of commercial farmers indicates that you CANNOT guarantee the viability of this mushroom in culture.


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Invisibletrade_om
An Old Omelette

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 172
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2756554 - 06/02/04 11:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hehehe. I did a search and found this thread. And I just have to reply.
First off, I do think 125$ is expensive for cultures, but I also think that if the culture is good and will produce good yields for the commercial grower than the price is alright.
About the Volvariella volvacea mushroom - it is true that it degenrates very fast, and that it cannot be frozen regularly cause it will die, but , and I dont know if you know this, it can be flash freezed in liquid nitrogen and revived later on. This can be done to keep the first culture stored, and then every time you want to clone it you just take it out of the nitrogen, clone return to nitrogen and viola - you have a cloned fruitable healthy culture. But considering that Stamets no longer sells Volvariella v. cultures maybe he did runi nto troubles with it... I dont know.


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OfflineMikeOLogical
Doctor ofShroomology
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Registered: 01/30/04
Posts: 4,133
Loc: florida
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2756627 - 06/02/04 11:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

if $125 was too expensive for cultures, then nobody would buy them at that price... obviously the customers are paying it... and i'm sure anyone with web access to view paul's site can just as easily view the cheaper sites, yet they still choose to buy from paul... you can call it vanity or false faith in a brand name but the fact is that the brand name and paul's reputation add to the value of the product, even though they don't necessarily add to the functionality of the product...


paul worked hard building that reputation and the brand name, probably just as hard or even harder than he worked on the cultures... so why shouldn't he be compensated for this work?


--------------------
We got Nothing!
we're no longer selling jars.  :laugh:


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Invisibletrade_om
An Old Omelette

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 172
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: MikeOLogical]
    #2756967 - 06/02/04 01:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

thumbs up for mike!


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Invisiblematts
matts

Registered: 01/28/02
Posts: 3,649
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: trade_om]
    #2757008 - 06/02/04 02:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)



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Offlinegordonoalberto23
Almost Cool
Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 23
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: matts]
    #2775958 - 06/08/04 08:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

The price wouldn't even be an issue if you could sell the spawn.
I think and at least he claims that the strains are patented. The spores are not patented, so any cultures arising from spores taken from fruit bodys should be unrestricted.


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Invisiblebrainbreath
perpetual newbie
Registered: 06/13/03
Posts: 67
Loc: down on the corner
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #2780195 - 06/10/04 03:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I?ve purchased a couple cultures from FP, I have found them to perform very well. The shiitake culture I purchased consistantly yields large fruits( 6-7" wide caps) These oysters are from stamets. I paid $125 for the culture, and in one run made $7200 I have no complaints.

  Try buying from penn state, with the cost of the culture and the bs fees they tack on it?ll cost you $195. I would buy them elsewhere, I have purchased almost all of the edible syringes sporeworks has to offer, I would like to buy from Mushroompeople, but until they have online ordering it won?t happen, ?cause I?m lazy like that. They need to catch up to the 21st century. :wink:


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Invisibleivi
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,089
Re: Fungi Perfecti my arse. [Re: curenado]
    #2781198 - 06/10/04 11:01 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
Paul's class is 1,000.00 - we have classes for $10 + your supplies.....




Considering the safety level at Stamets' courses :laugh:



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