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OfflineLearyfan
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20 logical questions about the war
    #1371470 - 03/13/03 06:09 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/03/11/ar1047437148.htm


I Will Support This War ? If Someone Can Answer 20,
Logical Questions
By J.J. Johnson


Okay, I?m convinced nothing will stop this war from happening, so we
must prepare to support the troops. But as history goes on, I?m still
having trouble convincing myself (or anyone else) why we?re doing
this. Perhaps I?m just losing it. Hence, I?ll list out a few questions here,
so maybe someone can answer them, and help me make sense of it
all.

1.If George W. Bush is willing to wage war with Iraq, regardless of a
United Nations Resolution supporting such a war, Why did Bush spend
Monday desperately lobbying for U.N. Security Council Votes?

2.Our Government says ?Iraq is a threat to its neighbors?. So, why is
only one of those neighbors, ?Kuwait?, open to giving the U.S.
support? (to date, no neighboring nation is supplying troops)

3.Bush
said ?Saddam Hussein may provide weapons of mass destruction to
terrorist organizations hostile to the United States?. Can anyone
provide any information supporting the fact that Hussein has in fact
offered any weapons of mass destruction to any terrorist organization
to be used outside of Iraq?s national border? (money to families of
suicide bombers doesn?t count ? unless you consider money to be a
weapon of mass destruction, as well as all the other Arab nations that
also held telethons to raise money for the same.)

4.Government officials have stated, ?We don?t know where the
weapons are, but we?ll know if he (Hussein) disarms.? If we don?t know
where the weapons are located, how will we know if and when he has
actually disarmed them?

5. Bush has stated that the potential war against Iraq is part of the
?War On Terror?. Our allies (and most of the world) gave their full
support in this war after September 11, 2001. Why are many of these
same nations (that have been assisting in this ?war on terror?) refusing
to assist in the War Against Iraq?

6.As our nation was attacked on September 11, 2001, action was
taken immediately against Afghanistan with no prior approval sought
from the United Nations. If this is a war for our self-defense, again ?
why seek U.N. approval for action?

7. Why has the major news media, to this point, failed to take any
government official to task for the sharp increase in fuel prices?

8. U.N. Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq must disarm itself of weapons
of mass destruction, yet clearly is not willing to enforce that mandate.
Why should we?

9. If WMD?s can be given to terrorists to be used on U.S. soil, how will
destroying Saddam?s regime cause those terrorists to willingly
relinquish those weapons?

10. Will this coming war halt the steady decline of the U.S. Dollar
against other currencies?

11. Why does a brutal dictator allow his citizens to purchase firearms?

12. If Iraqi citizens fight back against a foreign military occupation
with the firearms they?ve purchased, will they be considered
?terrorists??

13. If Iraqi soldiers are already surrendering, why not take them into
custody rather than sending them back across the border?

14. If Iraq has ties to terrorists, and must be removed from power by
force, why is Yasser Arafat still breathing, and why does this country
seek peace whenever Israel gets close to Arafat?s neck?

15. If the Bush Administration has evidence that Iraq was in any way
connected to the attacks on September 11, 2001, would it not better
his position to release at least some of that information to the public
to build support?

16. A previous ?complaint? the U.S. government had against Iraq was
their ?refusal? to allow U-2 spy planes over a country in which the U.S.
controls two-thirds of the air space. Since when has the U.S.
government asked permission to fly a spy plane over another country?

17. Over the weekend, North Korea threaten to attack, New York City,
Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington D.C if their nuclear facilities are
attacked (or if any sanctions are applied on them). This while Iraq is
destroying missiles with a range slightly greater than 155 miles. Please
explain why Iraq is more of a ?threat? to our freedom than North Korea
at this time.

18. After the ?regime change? in Iraq, how willing will the citizens of a
war torn country be to ?freely? elect people favorable to their
occupiers, and will they have to surrender their personal weapons?

19. Iraq is accused of murdering its own citizens. Fair enough. But has
the United States ever gone to war (including the threatened use of
nuclear weapons) due an enemy nation ?murdering its own citizens??

20. After we win this war, will there be peace?


Discuss........

I'd like someone to answer #14 for me if you could.



--------------------
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OfflineRonoS
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Learyfan]
    #1371504 - 03/13/03 06:21 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I kind of interested in 11 actually...

Great list..thanks!

Now does anybody care to take a crack at them?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Anonymous

Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Learyfan]
    #1371514 - 03/13/03 06:26 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

12. If Iraqi citizens fight back against a foreign military occupation with the firearms they?ve purchased, will they be considered ?terrorists??

I like this one. It will be interesting to see how people will react to this question. Because now, everyone wants to believe the iraqi army will all surrender and their people will happily embrace us. Well it might not be like that, these people still love their country like you do, and won't go easy. How far are we willing to go in containing and killing iraqi opposition?
A lot of questions go unanswered after we win the war. Are we going to rebuild this country ground up? Will we need troops occupying the streets of iraq? Won't terrorist organizations inside iraq be hard to deal with? All killing no thinking.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: ]
    #1371579 - 03/13/03 06:52 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think anyone could answer all those...


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: adrug]
    #1371586 - 03/13/03 06:54 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I would be interested in seeing some answer a few of them at least...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Learyfan]
    #1371623 - 03/13/03 07:06 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

That list is obviously padded in order to reach a nice round number. Some of those questions are just plain stupid. But for the hell of it, here's a quick commentary on all of them anyway.

1.If George W. Bush is willing to wage war with Iraq, regardless of a United Nations Resolution supporting such a war, Why did Bush spend Monday desperately lobbying for U.N. Security Council Votes?

Because it is preferable to have the broadest international support possible. "Preferable" and "necessary" are not synonyms. Further, there is nothing to be lost by making such attempts. Diplomats get paid whether they are negotiating or not.

2.Our Government says ?Iraq is a threat to its neighbors?. So, why is only one of those neighbors, ?Kuwait?, open to giving the U.S. support? (to date, no neighboring nation is supplying troops)

How do you define "neighbors"? Those countries with shared borders? That makes Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iran. Guess why Iran and Jordan and Syria choose not to supply troops. And who says "support" is restricted to supplying troops? Does anyone really believe there aren't enough US troops to get the job done?

3.Bush said ?Saddam Hussein may provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorist organizations hostile to the United States?. Can anyone provide any information supporting the fact that Hussein has in fact offered any weapons of mass destruction to any terrorist organization to be used outside of Iraq?s national border?

I can't. Intelligence agencies of various countries perhaps can, if they feel it is in their interests to do so.

4.Government officials have stated, ?We don?t know where the weapons are, but we?ll know if he (Hussein) disarms.? If we don?t know where the weapons are located, how will we know if and when he has actually disarmed them?

It is not necessary to know precisely where each weapon is at any given moment; all that is necessary is for Hussein to provide credible proof of the destruction of X quantities of Y type of weapons. If X and Y match the information the US believes to be accurate, voila.

5. Bush has stated that the potential war against Iraq is part of the ?War On Terror?. Our allies (and most of the world) gave their full support in this war after September 11, 2001. Why are many of these same nations (that have been assisting in this ?war on terror?) refusing to assist in the War Against Iraq?

Perhaps because many of them don't see Hussein as a terrorist? Perhaps because some of them (Russia and France, for example) are known to have "sweetheart deals" for oil development in place already with Hussein that would not be honored by a new regime.

6.As our nation was attacked on September 11, 2001, action was taken immediately against Afghanistan with no prior approval sought from the United Nations. If this is a war for our self-defense, again ? why seek U.N. approval for action?

See answer to #1.

7. Why has the major news media, to this point, failed to take any government official to task for the sharp increase in fuel prices?

I don't know. Ask them. What has that got to do with anything? If the price of fuel is a consideration, wouldn't it be better to have Iraq's full production available to all as soon as possible?

8. U.N. Resolution 1441 stated that Iraq must disarm itself of weapons of mass destruction, yet clearly is not willing to enforce that mandate. Why should we?

Because if the US doesn't, no one else will. More to the point, no one else can. That doesn't mean that the US must enforce it, of course, but if no one enforces it, what's the point of making resolutions in the first place? Disband the UN and turn the UN complex in New York into a luxury hotel, I say.

9. If WMD?s can be given to terrorists to be used on U.S. soil, how will destroying Saddam?s regime cause those terrorists to willingly relinquish those weapons?

Clearly it can't, if they have them in their hands already. What has that got to do with anything?

10. Will this coming war halt the steady decline of the U.S. Dollar against other currencies?

Almost certainly. If it doesn't, so what?

11. Why does a brutal dictator allow his citizens to purchase firearms?

Because any of his citizens who try to turn them against the ruling regime will be killed and every member of their family tortured.

12. If Iraqi citizens fight back against a foreign military occupation with the firearms they?ve purchased, will they be considered ?terrorists??

Nope. They will be considered combatants.

13. If Iraqi soldiers are already surrendering, why not take them into custody rather than sending them back across the border?

Given the source of that rumor, I think it unlikely such a thing even occurred. You will note that the British department of Defense denied the incident took place, and no other journalist has substantiated the story. If the story is true, ask the English why they didn't do that. Don't ask Bush.

14. If Iraq has ties to terrorists, and must be removed from power by force, why is Yasser Arafat still breathing, and why does this country seek peace whenever Israel gets close to Arafat?s neck?

There's a lot of terrorists in the world. They can't all be removed simultaneously. Besides, the terrorist connection is a side issue with the Iraq situation. The main issue is Iraq's refusal to fulfill the conditions of the 1991 surrender agreement.

15. If the Bush Administration has evidence that Iraq was in any way connected to the attacks on September 11, 2001, would it not better his position to release at least some of that information to the public to build support?

Perhaps, if doing so would not place an intelligence source in peril. However, even if Hussein had nothing to do with those attacks, there are other reasons for deposing him. See answer to #14.

16. A previous ?complaint? the U.S. government had against Iraq was their ?refusal? to allow U-2 spy planes over a country in which the U.S. controls two-thirds of the air space. Since when has the U.S. government asked permission to fly a spy plane over another country?

Never. So what?

17. Over the weekend, North Korea threaten to attack, New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, and Washington D.C if their nuclear facilities are attacked (or if any sanctions are applied on them). This while Iraq is destroying missiles with a range slightly greater than 155 miles. Please explain why Iraq is more of a ?threat? to our freedom than North Korea at this time.

Perhaps North Korea is more of a threat than Iraq. If so, they will be dealt with as well. Hussein will be deposed long before the North Koreans can build their first bomb.

18. After the ?regime change? in Iraq, how willing will the citizens of a war torn country be to ?freely? elect people favorable to their occupiers...

Who knows? Whoever they elect it is unlikely he will be worse than Hussein. As well, whoever they elect will not possess weapons of mass destruction.

... and will they have to surrender their personal weapons?

Probably. How does that make them worse off than Australians or English?

19. Iraq is accused of murdering its own citizens. Fair enough. But has the United States ever gone to war (including the threatened use of nuclear weapons) due an enemy nation ?murdering its own citizens??

Apart from Nazi Germany or Korea or Viet Nam? And the US has not threatened first use of WMD in Iraq.

20. After we win this war, will there be peace?

In Iraq? Yes. In Angola and Chechnya and Israel and North Korea and the Philippines and everywhere else in the world? Unlikely. So what?

pinky


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Phred]
    #1371791 - 03/13/03 08:08 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

11. Why does a brutal dictator allow his citizens to purchase firearms?

Because any of his citizens who try to turn them against the ruling regime will be killed and every member of their family tortured.




Kinda like the current state of america.....


the most important question has never been asked....

Who is America to interfere in Iraqs politics, to dictate what another country can or cannot do. Who are we to decide that Iraq cannot posess the very same weapons that we posess in much larger numbers.

just so that you know USC defines a weapon of mass destruction as any weapon capable of firing a projectile through the means of a powder based charge, incindiary or explosive device. This would include pistols, rifles, shotguns and firecrackers.

When will the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT DISARM

Prisoner#1


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Anonymous

Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1372181 - 03/13/03 10:24 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

When will France disarm? When will the UK disarm? When will Russia disarm? All these countries are members of the UN. And, under Resolution 687, passed by the UN Security Council, Iraq must disarm fully. America isn't the only country which demands other countries to disarm, while keeping its own weapons of mass destruction, despite what you in the anti-American crowd think.

Also, run a search on the UN's website for "disarm iraq" or something to that effect and enjoy the pages after pages of UN demands on Iraq. Not once has the UN acted on its demands since 1991.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Phred]
    #1372263 - 03/13/03 10:50 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Intelligence agencies of various countries perhaps can, if they feel it is in their interests to do so.

If the CIA could have provided the even the flimsiest evidence that Saddam was arming terrorists we would all have heard about it by now.

In Iraq? Yes.

Like Bush brought peace to Afghanistan...whoops....


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Anonymous]
    #1372279 - 03/13/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Not once has the UN acted on its demands since 1991.

That's nothing compared to how long they havn't acted over Israel flagrantly flouting resolution after resolution.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Xlea321]
    #1372508 - 03/13/03 11:52 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Tu Quoque

classic alex...


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1372578 - 03/13/03 12:14 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Very nice. Not to mention.... true.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMushyMay
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Phred]
    #1372602 - 03/13/03 12:23 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Nice job tackling that list. Some rather dismissive answers though.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: MushyMay]
    #1372779 - 03/13/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Some rather dismissive answers though.

Only to the stupid questions. I mean, seriously, what is this guy's point with some of those inanities?

pinky


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Offlinepsilo25
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Learyfan]
    #1372840 - 03/13/03 01:49 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

New title for this post:

A few logical questions about the war, but mostly foolishly loaded questions that are designed to make the war look bad.

Shit, I'm anti-war and all. I think this war with Iraq is utter bullshit. But, come on! We can do better than this!


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1372882 - 03/13/03 02:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Tu Quoque

Classic Inny. If Shrub says we must have one rule for Saddam and one rule for Israel then it must accepted without question. For Shrub is the way, the light and the truth...


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Xlea321]
    #1373129 - 03/13/03 03:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

i think i can actually hear you whine.......it's turning to pity now alex.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinevalour
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Phred]
    #1379525 - 03/16/03 12:45 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps because many of them don't see Hussein as a terrorist? Perhaps because some of them (Russia and France, for example) are known to have "sweetheart deals" for oil development in place already with Hussein that would not be honored by a new regime.




Wait - why are these sweetheart deals seen as the sole reason for France and Russia not supporting US military action, but it's ignored when the oil motive for the US is brought up? (or vice versa, for the other side)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 20 logical questions about the war [Re: Phred]
    #1379699 - 03/16/03 03:47 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"Apart from Nazi Germany or Korea or Viet Nam?"

World war two started after Hitler started invading other countries, nobody cared about the jews before that. Vietnam and Korea were interventions into actual conflicts.


--------------------
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