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OfflineBothHands
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400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. * 2
    #13695279 - 12/28/10 09:53 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

JERUSALEM –
Israeli archaeologists said Monday they may have found the earliest evidence yet for the existence of modern man, and if so, it could upset theories of the origin of humans.

A Tel Aviv University team excavating a cave in central Israel said teeth found in the cave are about 400,000 years old and resemble those of other remains of modern man, known scientifically as Homo sapiens, found in Israel. The earliest Homo sapiens remains found until now are half as old.

"It's very exciting to come to this conclusion," said archaeologist Avi Gopher, whose team examined the teeth with X-rays and CT scans and dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.

He stressed that further research is needed to solidify the claim. If it does, he says, "this changes the whole picture of evolution."

The accepted scientific theory is that Homo sapiens originated in Africa and migrated out of the continent. Gopher said if the remains are definitively linked to modern human's ancestors, it could mean that modern man in fact originated in what is now Israel.

Sir Paul Mellars, a prehistory expert at Cambridge University, said the study is reputable, and the find is "important" because remains from that critical time period are scarce, but it is premature to say the remains are human.

"Based on the evidence they've cited, it's a very tenuous and frankly rather remote possibility," Mellars said. He said the remains are more likely related to modern man's ancient relatives, the Neanderthals.

According to today's accepted scientific theories, modern humans and Neanderthals stemmed from a common ancestor who lived in Africa about 700,000 years ago. One group of descendants migrated to Europe and developed into Neanderthals, later becoming extinct. Another group stayed in Africa and evolved into Homo sapiens — modern humans.

Teeth are often unreliable indicators of origin, and analyses of skull remains would more definitively identify the species found in the Israeli cave, Mellars said.

Gopher, the Israeli archaeologist, said he is confident his team will find skulls and bones as they continue their dig.

The prehistoric Qesem cave was discovered in 2000, and excavations began in 2004. Researchers Gopher, Ran Barkai and Israel Hershkowitz published their study in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101227/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_ancient_teeth

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OfflineEshu
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: BothHands]
    #13695330 - 12/28/10 10:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This was too long for me to read, so I'm just basing my response on the title.

This is very sweet!
Proof of human activity 400,000 years back! I love proof!

Of course this is no news to religious buffs, but it's purdy cool to me.


--------------------

~^*>~.Life is the hyphen between matter and spirit.~^*>~

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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: BothHands]
    #13695343 - 12/28/10 10:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Damn you, i was gonna post this.  The comments on the bottom of the page piss me off so bad.  People are sooooooooooo fucking stupid :facepalm::shakefist: Im a spiritual person, i have morales.  I just don't believe the bearded man in the sky looking over us idea.  Sorry evolution exists guys.  One of the quotes i liked: "The world is full of misteries, only who created this UNIVERSE, ulltimate GOD only can know the exact cause, human beings can only predict something, no one can confirm 100% what is exactly what? Only the creator the whole universe can 100% confirm his creation"

The stupidity:
"God have mercy on those of you wishing for christianity to disappear and the rest of us if it ever does. This world wouldn't be worth taking a single breath in without Jesus Christ our savior. God bless each and every one of you rather you believe in him or not"

"The Bible says that in the end of days knowledge will increase, but that the spirit of deception will lead many astray. This is what evolution is doing. Christianity is discounted as an unproven theory, but isn't evolution the same thing? And there has never been archaeological or historical evidence that has disproved Christianity. As time goes on, secular and scientific evidence has proven more and more that the Bible is an accurate account of the history of the world and God's intervention in the lives of man. But the opposite is happening with evolution. It seems like the more they dig, the more holes they need to fill."

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Eshu]
    #13695344 - 12/28/10 10:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I literally just read that article. It's just a tooth. If they found a skull or jaw or something I would be more impressed. Still fascinating stuff. The evidence for homo sapiens originating in Africa seems pretty solid.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


Edited by robbyberto (12/28/10 10:14 AM)

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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #13695356 - 12/28/10 10:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

how does this finding disprove evolution in any way?????

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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Eshu]
    #13695357 - 12/28/10 10:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Eshu said:
Of course this is no news to religious buffs, but it's purdy cool to me.



they say the earth's 6000 years old:wink:


and to OP, nice find.


--------------------
EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


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OfflineEshu
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Salomon]
    #13695363 - 12/28/10 10:18 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
Quote:

Eshu said:
Of course this is no news to religious buffs, but it's purdy cool to me.



they say the earth's 6000 years old;)


and to OP, nice find.





Oh. :awetongue:


--------------------

~^*>~.Life is the hyphen between matter and spirit.~^*>~

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Eshu]
    #13695383 - 12/28/10 10:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm super interested in this kind of stuff. I was recently reading about the hominid species homo floresiensis which shared an ancestor with homo sapiens. They were very small, about three feet fall, used stone tools, and may have lived as recently as 15,000 years ago. Some scientists debate whether Neanderthals should be classified as a subspecies of homo sapiens instead of as a separate species. That debate is highlighted by finds of skeletal remains with characteristics of both homo sapiens and Neanderthals like those in the  homo sapiens idaltu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens_idaltu


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


Edited by robbyberto (12/28/10 10:28 AM)

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OfflineBothHands
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #13695399 - 12/28/10 10:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

robbyberto said:
I literally just read that article. It's just a tooth. If they found a skull or jaw or something I would be more impressed. Still fascinating stuff. The evidence for homo sapiens originating in Africa seems pretty solid.





Yeah, the actual article's title is quite misleading, so I changed it to be more accurate for the shroomery.  But it's still extremely interesting.  There's still a possibility that it can be human.  They say they're confident they'll find new bones.  Hopefully they will.  I'm interested to know if this is actually human.

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
how does this finding disprove evolution in any way?????





Who said it did?

It just shows that we might have started in Isreal, rather than Africa.  But we're still not sure if it's a human tooth, or a neanderthal tooth.  If it's human, this can change our whole theory.  It's unlikely, but possible.  I know I'm going to keep looking at all the new things they find.

Quote:

robbyberto said:
I'm super interested in this kind of stuff. I was recently reading about the hominid species homo floresiensis which shared an ancestor with homo sapiens. They were very small, about three feet fall, used stone tools, and may have lived as recently as 15,000 years ago.




Sounds pretty interesting.  I'll be looking that up :grin:

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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: BothHands]
    #13695403 - 12/28/10 10:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I added a little bit more to my post that may interest you as well.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: robbyberto]
    #13695406 - 12/28/10 10:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks :grin:

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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: BothHands]
    #13695430 - 12/28/10 10:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Mush 4 Brains said:
how does this finding disprove evolution in any way?????




"Who said it did?

It just shows that we might have started in Isreal, rather than Africa.  But we're still not sure if it's a human tooth, or a neanderthal tooth.  If it's human, this can change our whole theory.  It's unlikely, but possible.  I know I'm going to keep looking at all the new things they find."

People commenting on the bottom of the link.  Nobody here has, im just ranting.  I truly hate people who don't acknowledge logic and reason

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Offlineeniac
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #13695439 - 12/28/10 10:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> dated them according to the layers of earth where they were found.

Because dating the actual objects might give some useful information.

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OfflineNlightNme
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Re: 400,000 year old remains found in Isreal. Possibly human. [Re: eniac]
    #13695536 - 12/28/10 11:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm actually in Israel right now visiting my parents (my dad got transfered over here recently for his job). It would be amazing if this turned out to be human but I doubt it. The thing that makes me super suspicious it that this finding by a university in israel suggests that the origin of mankind was in israel. The people here will do ANYTHING to confirm themselves as the chosen people or to prove that this is God's holy land etc..

If they even think some holy anything happened at any point they just build a church over a spot somewhere around it and proclaim it a holy site. For example theres a stone in the old city jerusalem that has a hand shaped (barely/kind of) imprint on it and is on the via de la rosa (path jesus supposedly walked with the cross). They say that this is the exact spot where jesus placed his hand while being flogged by the centurions. What they don't say is that even if this did happen that spot would be buried like 100ft below where the current city rests because of how many times that place has been razed to the ground. I talked to some lady that jesus apparently appeared to a couple of years ago and she seemed like she REALLY believed it. And she would gladly tell you about it and show you the spot that he appeared for a price.

You see how fanatical people can get when visiting this region. And how much religion can direct their energies or theories (like finding a tooth and claiming it is the first human).


--------------------
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You tell me the music industry is dead. I tell you that music never should have been industrialized in the first place.

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