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leery11
I Tell You What!


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Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ?
#13689396 - 12/27/10 02:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am in a bit of a one sided discussion with a Muslim and he says that if you believe there is one god that makes you a Muslim.
What we haven't figured out is if it matters what you CALL that one God, but this is interesting.
There is so much evil energy put into a western mind about the idea of muslims, and it is a weird thing to try to encounter a rational view point of them.
for ex : beyond all things said and believed is a reality we can see, internally , you've been there probably :
in that place, i will see true information about the religion , not even based , at all, on anything other than the vantage point, the eye of god some might call it
what i seem to see is its just , a belief zone , but i don' t know . what are your thoughts on that path , have any of you read the Qoran ?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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myco99
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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: leery11]
#13689456 - 12/27/10 03:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Monotheism is prevalent in almost all Abrahamric religions. I'm certain Islam can not stake claim to all of monotheism.
-------------------- 143/0x63/99...It's like watching the mycelium grow... WARNING: You must be 21 years of age to experience hallucinations.
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lines
Stranger


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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: myco99]
#13689524 - 12/27/10 04:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not a muslim but Ive read The Quran. It contains some good practical advice. My main problem with islam is that in muslim culture they discourage people from having dogs as pets. But that is not based in the Quran, it is based in a hadith and there are a minority of muslims who dispute the authenticity of the hadith that discourages keeping dogs as pets.
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solstice
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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: lines]
#13689786 - 12/27/10 07:49 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your islamic friend is right. We have come to associate the word muslim with the islamic religion but what it really means in their language is: someone who is submitted to God. In that sense, if you believe in one god and are submitted to it, then you are a muslim because being submitted to one god is not specific to just one religion, not specific to just the islamic religion.
Now that said, I don't believe muslims exist! Or if they do, there are very few specimens indeed. Who can really pretend that they are entirely submitted to an higher entity? That they accept everything that happens to them without ever questioning the reasons? In that sense, I call these people islamists, not muslims, because they follow the path of islam and strive to submit to their god. Most of them aren't there yet, if even that is their intention. It's a bit like if buddhists would start refering to themselves as buddhas and not buddhists anymore see? Because being totally and utterly submitted to an all-powerfgul god is ultimately the same as being '' one with reality '' or '' enlightened '', as buddhists would put it. The abrahamic religions have gathered such a large following that it's easy to see how these people have let pride take over their good judgement even though humility and self-sacrifice is supposed to be the center of their lives.
-------------------- Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
Edited by solstice (12/27/10 07:52 AM)
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deCypher



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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: solstice]
#13690192 - 12/27/10 10:14 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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solstice
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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: deCypher]
#13690345 - 12/27/10 10:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:

Well, I admit it does sound pejorative from a contemporary/materialistic/atheist point of view, but what's important to remember here is that those are just words, or instead, one of many ways to express an idea.
If, for example, I say: It's much easier to be happy if you go with the flow instead of always complaining.
Basically, it means the same thing and I'm pretty sure everyone, believer or not, would agree with it. In other words, call it god, call it Allah, call it Brahman, call it the universe, call it reality, whichever you like, the important thing is to be at peace with '' it ''.
-------------------- Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
Edited by solstice (12/27/10 10:48 AM)
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leery11
I Tell You What!


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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: solstice]
#13692547 - 12/27/10 06:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
solstice said:
Quote:
deCypher said:

Well, I admit it does sound pejorative from a contemporary/materialistic/atheist point of view, but what's important to remember here is that those are just words, or instead, one of many ways to express an idea.
If, for example, I say: It's much easier to be happy if you go with the flow instead of always complaining.
Basically, it means the same thing and I'm pretty sure everyone, believer or not, would agree with it. In other words, call it god, call it Allah, call it Brahman, call it the universe, call it reality, whichever you like, the important thing is to be at peace with '' it ''.
YEAH i said that we are all prophets of god, that all good people are, the response was MOHAMMED WAS THE LAST PROPHET OF GOD and such ....
beneath the damned religion is truth, the truth is what unites people together, the LETTER KILLS and the SPIRIT, gives
wanna solve the puzzle
Life..... such a truth from Jesus and such a horrible religion of complacency and non-enlightenment in his image.
"Who can really pretend that they are entirely submitted to an higher entity?" http://www.meditationworkshop.org/meditation-teachers/sri-yukteswar/yukteswar.jpg
that is the point of a guru disciple relationship, ask Jesus the rich person went to him, and said dude you're cool bro , and he said for sure, now follow me son , and he said "No way mang " so then he didn't get enlightened, makes sense ? yes ,
the Christians seem to think , it went something like this : a rich dude went to Jesus he said yo, whats up , give me some spirit mang, and Jesus said, verily you have belived I am the son of god, go buil dan empire and kill people in my name, amen , for you are saved not by being my disciple, nor by accepting disciplikne, nor by prayer or enlightenment, you are saved by spending 5 seconds of your li to profess how verily awesome I verily am
now pray this way , Myself, Me, Jesus, the ego, you are so awesome, save my soul, amen
pray not to the source of all creation, bitches,
that is basically the modern day confusing Christian insanity of thinking salvation = laziness and effort = evil.
and the wealth that blocks people from god is not material it is the stuff put in the mind that makes people the "monkey" so to speak,
like it or not : the message of Jesus was : if you will give up all things and go to God, then you will know God, and the Christian message is absurd, if the christian message were true then the people that went to Jesus would not accept his teachings, and were very sad , would not add up
put yet another way for minds that might not get what I AM is saying : IF CHRISTIANITY WA SCORRECT, that very rich man, who would not do what Jesus asked, since he "belived" enough to go talk to him, surely went to heaven ? but he didn't ! he was turned down , how can they think what they do ?
authorities and popes lying and conspiracies
but i don't know how to argue with a muslim , i am not familiar with islam, the unifying truth in Christianity is REAL, and i am wondering if there is that also , same, spirit of unifying anti-authoritarian truth in Islam, or if it is messed up , and the book is not correct.
to even claim god is named allah is dangerous , because that name could be many things that are not god at all,
lao tsu warned us about that , the tao that can be named is not the tao , the tao that can be taoed is not the tao .
basically : a rich man went to Jesus did not want to meditate or know god, wanted to continue in hi sillusions, so he was sad somehow christians ignore that, and ignore be still and know that i am god and ignore that the kingdom of god is within and ignore just about everything
to them a rich man went and gave jesus $3.50 , and said praise be to you dude ima go get drunk and he said veirly , you have now received supreme unity with creation, i do not reject you , for in being lazy for a few moments and giving me some money you are saved, but not by trying , nor by praying, nor by anything
verily your close mindedness has set your soul free, amen.
now, a christian would ideally think that ghandi went to hell and htielr or any christian that killed people went to heaven.
muslim are not that childish, they believe that good is good and evil is evil and heaven is for all good people, but they still believe in a religion, which is confusing to this poor me , because their religion seems mean and outdated.
it seems that to be part of any religion you should be taught that religion sare stepping stones to god and that you do not need to feel that yorus is the only one, so find what works well and share that, but do not force people to think that that is the only way , the way you were told, becuase how do you know ?
as said i don't think many people have made it to god, but those that do show the way to others
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (12/27/10 06:45 PM)
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solstice
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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: leery11]
#13692621 - 12/27/10 06:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
to even claim god is named allah is dangerous
Well first of all, '' Allah '' is not a personal name like you seem to imply. In arabic, the word il'lah means god, in the general sense, while Al'lah means God in a specific sense, as in THE God so it's the same thing as adressing the higher entity by calling it '' God '' in english.
And then, you have to keep in mind that islam comes from the same source as the two other abrahamic religions, judaism and christianity, so you're threading the same ground when talking to believers of either faith even though they will try to make you believe otherwise. That is a blatant paradox right there because religion is supposed to unite and here you have the three most powerful and zealous religions sketched from the very same blueprint making war upon each other.
-------------------- Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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leery11
I Tell You What!


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Re: Muslim = anyone that belives in one god ? [Re: solstice]
#13693091 - 12/27/10 08:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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well word to that essay .....
word to the excel, i am amused by all attempts to unite people without defending the words ,
now does that average muslim admit to allah meaning "god" and that the name of god doesn't matter ? i want to know if they are more tolerant of diversity than a christian in general.
we can use the words of Jesu sto encourage people not to be dogmatic Christians, he is very against Christianity and his speeches are obvious to all but those with closed ears.... but I am not sure if the same supreme truth would exist in the qoran as such that though a person is fine with being a muslim, you could disarm them from trying to convince you to venerate something without substance (i.e. the anti christ, djjal that which is praised by all but has no substance , hahaha ! )
the reason doing that to be part of a faith , a living active faith, you should also know to let other people have their iown , and try to only give people a truth that is applicable to their experience as opposed to something that is devoid of any substance and say READ THIS ,
the letter kills and the spirit gives life NO WAY JESUS DIDN'T SAY THAT, oh yes he did !
but he wasn't talking about religion WOE UNTO YOU SCRIBES AND PHARISEES ( RELIGION ) HYPOCRITES, YOU ENTER NOT THE KINGDOM OF GOD AND YOU BLIND THOSE WHO ARE SEEKING, THE PROSTITUTES GO TO HEAVEN BEFORE YOU
oh no but he didn't mean my religion THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU well he doesn't mean you should meditate, well meditate is said , many many times in the bible,
and the irony is so clever simply because people ONLY judge religions because religions have JUDGED ... that is a strange one to contemplate...
the Christians need to be close to god so do the muslims and , within this all they need to not convert people, because conversion to a belif group does not bring any salvatino, in fact can threaten it , but rather, finding the spirit beneath the teachings is a personal and delicate thing
personally i do not feel that the bible or the qoran have an energy of benevolence to them, but have some good things in them,
is there any hope of saving people from the desire to harm others by whomping them with a book, or saying read this brother, when you see it is not true ? i mean for them it is true they have this precious faith, and i am wondering if that is only a part of huan psychology to want to belong,
as molder wants to believe, and will seek out anything ,
if we get the same feelings going to a rock concert as a person gets when they say JESUS JESUS JESUS AMEN and get nutty in an emotional church then , is that only catharsis,
samadhi is the missing link unity with the divine , something all religions should teach in some way .
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
Edited by leery11 (12/27/10 08:27 PM)
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