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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal?
    #1367622 - 03/12/03 12:48 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

What is the governments justification for keeping prostitution and sodomy illegal? What is that besides legislated morality?

I know there isn't a law about sodomy in every state, but really, why would any state have a law against that?

How can prostitution be illegal? As George Carlin said: "Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal? Why is it illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away?

How can this blatant non-separation of church and state still be tolerated?



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1367628 - 03/12/03 01:02 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

How can they be illegal? Because some prudish idiots thought they should be.

Your subject was easy. The next part of your post.... "What is the governments justification for keeping prostitution and sodomy illegal? What is that besides legislated morality? ".... is tougher. There is no good justification for any act between consenting adults being made, or kept, illegal.

This however.... "How can this blatant non-separation of church and state still be tolerated?".... is just plain wrong. You don't have to be religous to have morals. Many people (IMO) believe these acts to be immoral. I disagree but I don't make the laws.



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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/12/03 01:03 AM)

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1367698 - 03/12/03 01:41 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I think those morals come from Christian ideology.



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineScvotto_Turellskey
officially old

Registered: 03/03/03
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1367709 - 03/12/03 01:47 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a twist:
In the UK sodomy is legal between men, but not between a man and a woman.

Also, I think the Scotish devolved government is thinking of allowing prostitution in designated areas in scotish cities. Don't know if that's still going ahead, or if any of the other devolved assemblies are thinking of it.


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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"They think we are retarded - they are retarded." - The Sultan of Spin.

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Anonymous

Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1367905 - 03/12/03 03:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Thou Shalt Not Kill also came from religious ideology.

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1367992 - 03/12/03 03:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Prositution and sodomy are non-violent acts



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Anonymous

Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1368002 - 03/12/03 03:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

No I agree with you 100% that they should both be legal. I was pointing out that a lot of what we live by comes from religion. The use of mushrooms stems from religious use for that matter.

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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1368037 - 03/12/03 04:21 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prositution and sodomy are non-violent acts



Not a very good subject to debate. I think we all can agree that the illegalization of these two acts are similar to the WOD....in a sense.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1368084 - 03/12/03 04:46 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Well this time i'm not really trying to start a debate. I'm asking "how in the hell could it possibly be that these things are still illegal".

What in the world is their justification for making these things illegal? What could it possibly be besides "my God says it's wrong"?







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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1368087 - 03/12/03 04:50 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I'm asking "how in the hell could it possibly be that these things are still illegal".



For the same reason as a lot of other things, not enough care.

Quote:

What could it possibly be besides "my God says it's wrong"?



While you and I seem to agree, many people think those are just wrong, some for religous reasons, some because they don't care for those acts, some because of prudish parents. Many reasons, not all religous based.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Invisiblechodamunky
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1368189 - 03/12/03 05:35 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

How does a government enforce the law regarding sodomy? Do they have like an alert system? "Warning! Warning! Rear entry is about to be breached at 27 Finch Ave."

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: chodamunky]
    #1368232 - 03/12/03 05:49 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

.

Edited by TheHateCamel (12/07/07 05:51 PM)

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Anonymous

Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #1368278 - 03/12/03 06:04 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Could you imagine going to jail for having consensual butt sex?



The punishment will be non-consensual butt sex.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #1368308 - 03/12/03 06:14 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, in some states even oral sex is considered sodomy.

http://www.sodomylaws.org/

(There really is a web site for everything!)


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1368418 - 03/12/03 06:50 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

.

Edited by TheHateCamel (12/07/07 05:51 PM)

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #1368493 - 03/12/03 07:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

By definition that's wrong.




Is that right?

Main Entry: sod?omy
Pronunciation: 's?-d&-mE
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French sodomie, from Late Latin Sodoma Sodom; from the homosexual proclivities of the men of the city in Gen 19:1-11
Date: 13th century
1 : copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal
2 : noncoital and especially anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex
- sod?om?it?ic /"s?-d&-'mi-tik/ or sod?om?it?i?cal /-ti-k&l/ adjective

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sod?om?y
(click to hear the word) (sd-m)
n.
Any of various forms of sexual intercourse held to be unnatural or abnormal, especially anal intercourse or bestiality.

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sodomy
noun [U]
FORMAL OR LAW
the sexual act of putting the penis into a man's or woman's anus

(American law) Sodomy can also be the sexual act of fellatio putting the penis into a person's mouth.

sodomize, British and Australian usually -ise
verb [T]

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sodomy
noun [U]
the sexual act of putting the penis into the anus or mouth of another person


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Anonymous

Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1368909 - 03/12/03 09:43 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

If you're a fan of democracy anything can be legal or illegal.

Next question.

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Offlinepsilo25
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1368975 - 03/12/03 10:05 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

LMAO! If I have anal sex where I live I can get 20 years in prison. 5 years/$100-$1000 fine for oral sex. Ridiculous.


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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: psilo25]
    #1369000 - 03/12/03 10:12 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder when the last time anyone got charged with sodomy was..


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1369069 - 03/12/03 10:28 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Its getting worse too..

In LA County they just passed a law where they will seize a persons car for prostitution. They play it on the news all the time now about how many guys are picked up durring stings and the kinda cars they keep for it.

One night they showed a line of 20 cars that was worth about a half million dollars seized in prostitution stings on johns so far.. their was a real nice Cobra GT to be auctioned off..


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1369238 - 03/12/03 11:35 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

That's pretty ridiculous.


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InvisibleXibalba
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: ]
    #1369388 - 03/12/03 12:35 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Mr. Mushrooms got it.
Democracy= tyranny of the majority.

If the people who believe free adults have the right to do as they please on their own property at their own risk as long as they harm no one else; are outnumbered by the people who believe 'everybody with different morals from me is a sinner and should be punished;' then there will be no freedom.

So democracy sucks, but what's a better alternative?
Constitutional democracy, where it's decided ahead of time that there are some laws that cannot and should not be made; for the good of society. Isn't that what we are?
In name only.
The Constitution is a complete joke, it's been picked apart one amendment at a time over 2 centuries by Supreme Court justices with agendas, (and recently, by executive orders...) and at this point it offers no protection whatsoever against bad laws.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Specifically, these two should have saved us from bullshit like the War on Drugs, but both have been officially ruled to be 'meaningless.'



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InvisibleTheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1369826 - 03/12/03 02:44 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

.

Edited by TheHateCamel (03/12/03 02:46 PM)

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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Registered: 01/31/03
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1369830 - 03/12/03 02:45 PM (21 years, 1 month ago)

.

Edited by TheHateCamel (12/07/07 05:52 PM)

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: chodamunky]
    #1371844 - 03/13/03 06:31 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

How does a government enforce the law regarding sodomy? Do they have like an alert system? "Warning! Warning! Rear entry is about to be breached at 27 Finch Ave."




Look around you city...look at the interstate hiways, interchanges, the intersections....look at the top of large silver poles...near the traffic control lights...what do you see.... Thats right...its big brother making sure you arent getting it in the butt! you worse yet....putting it in the butt!

Prisoner#1

---get that out of your mouth, you dont know where its been.---- mom



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Xibalba]
    #1371865 - 03/13/03 06:39 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mr. Mushrooms got it.
Democracy= tyranny of the majority.


Constitutional democracy, where it's decided ahead of time that there are some laws that cannot and should not be made; for the good of society. Isn't that what we are?





Actualy we are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic....we were once based on common law, where there had to be a victim in order for a crime to have been commited....now we are under maritime law (since 1911) inwhice anything can be made illegal by a governing body or as it the case for the last decade, law enforcment personel.

Prisoner#1

....and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation....

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1371875 - 03/13/03 06:41 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Could you imagine going to jail for having consensual butt sex?



The punishment will be non-consensual butt sex.




Death by....(see above)

Prisoner#1

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #1371879 - 03/13/03 06:43 AM (21 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

How do you get caught having anal sex in private? What the fuck? That law is not enforceable.




There is already precedent set.... about 7 years ago someone was actualy tried and convicted in the state of Georgia for violation of the sodomy laws

Just so you know...Adultry is a crime as well.....

Prisoner#1

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1486058 - 04/23/03 12:34 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

I can't believe it.

I just heard Bill O'Reilly say that prostitution should be legal, and that it's dangerous only when it's uncontrolled.



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineOOOO
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1486069 - 04/23/03 12:36 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe next the media will wake up and start saying that about drugs.

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OfflineShdwstr
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1486968 - 04/23/03 05:14 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

This puts every government official at risk of being arrested!!!
They have been fucking us in the ass forever!!!

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Shdwstr]
    #1487051 - 04/23/03 05:37 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

This puts every government official at risk of being arrested!!!
They have been fucking us in the ass forever!!!




Good point.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1488967 - 04/24/03 10:21 AM (20 years, 11 months ago)

People were opposed to murder long before they had religion to tell them so.

The difference is that murder harms another person, who certainly doesn't want to be involved. Prostitution and sodomy occur between two consenting individuals.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Phluck]
    #1490267 - 04/24/03 04:26 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

While prostitutes consent, often they are humiliated in the process as they are often drug addicts. Laws against prostitution protects the embattled woman and punishes the men who take advantage of their 'services'.

They should impound the cars of johns and have them registered as sex offenders.


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OfflineOOOO
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490302 - 04/24/03 04:37 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Laws against prostitution do not protect women.

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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: OOOO]
    #1490358 - 04/24/03 04:51 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Explain.

As long as it is illegal, it will discourage future prostitutes and johns - the less people who choose to go to prostitutes, the less women are victimized.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490364 - 04/24/03 04:53 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Women should also be covered at all times and not allowed to go to school, right?


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
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Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490398 - 04/24/03 04:59 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

As long as it is illegal, it will discourage future prostitutes and johns - the less people who choose to go to prostitutes, the less women are victimized.



If someone chooses to humiliate themselves then how exactly are they victimized? They have a choice.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

Edited by z@z.com (04/24/03 04:59 PM)

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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1490399 - 04/24/03 04:59 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Um, no.

Thanks for stereotyping me, really.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1490404 - 04/24/03 05:00 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

It's also the choice of a suicide victim to take their own lives.


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490414 - 04/24/03 05:01 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

While prostitutes consent, often they are humiliated in the process as they are often drug addicts.




How is that basis for throwing someone in jail?


Quote:


Laws against prostitution protects the embattled woman and punishes the men who take advantage of their 'services'.




You've got it backwards. If prostituion were legal everywhere like it is in Nevada, whorehouses would be regularly run businesses with rules, security and police backup(if someone got out of hand or something).


Quote:

They should impound the cars of johns and have them registered as sex offenders.




Why because they committed a non-violent sex act that your religion doesn't agree with?




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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490418 - 04/24/03 05:02 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

How is it stereotyping, I thought it was widely accepted in Muslim cultures women should be covered and not allowed to attend school?


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04

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Invisiblez@z.com
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Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490421 - 04/24/03 05:04 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It's also the choice of a suicide victim to take their own lives.



Suicide is a little more permanent than prostitution.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: z@z.com]
    #1490432 - 04/24/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Suicide should be legal for adults as well IMO.



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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OfflineOOOO
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Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Zahid]
    #1490433 - 04/24/03 05:08 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Like with drugs, nearly all of the harms attributed to prostitution are a direct cause of the prohibition against it.

How is it illegal for two adults to agree to exchange a sum of money for sex? Is this not done, in a less business-like and direct manner, all across America every night?

How is it illegal to sell something which is perfectly legal to give away for free?

Any time there is a large market for something, and there are willing sellers and willing buyers, all attempts to shut down this market will be futile and self-defeating.

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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: OOOO]
    #1490442 - 04/24/03 05:11 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

The illegality of prostitution is a big red flag to show everyone that our laws are based on Christian morals. Everyone needs to recognize that.



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1490447 - 04/24/03 05:14 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Suicide should be legal for adults as well IMO.



I partially agree with you. What about the people who have a really bad day and make a rash decision to kill themselves? Should their friends and family be able to at least delay the action to give the person more time to think about it?


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineOOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
Re: How can prostitution and sodomy be illegal? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1490469 - 04/24/03 05:19 PM (20 years, 11 months ago)

Which isn't so bad when we're talking about crimes with victims like robbery, murder, rape, burglary, arson, vandalism, drunk driving, etc.

These are the laws our police should focus on enforcing.

Laws against drugs, gambling, prostitution, sodomy, homosexuality, pornography, etc....

These are victimless crimes. They are only examples of the christian majority (and anyone who agrees with them) in this country ignoring the idea of liberty and using democracy to force their morality on the minority.

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