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OfflineDmiller
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2 Problems!
    #13672343 - 12/22/10 06:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

ok first problem
I had my BRF/water/verm mix (spawn) sitting for 24 hrs before pressure cooking is it still ok??


also

I used a different kind of verm, it was dark and dusty... bought from lowes.. now my jars are darker looking.. after the pcook..

any thoughts?


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OfflineShaneOmack
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13672387 - 12/22/10 07:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Should be fine on both problems. The Pc will kill anything if you PCd long enough and the dusty verm I hate but I get stuck with it too but it works just not my favorite type.

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OfflinePatlal
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13672390 - 12/22/10 07:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes to first question

Verm is verm in my head. The colour of it should not mather.


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OfflineDmiller
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Patlal]
    #13672398 - 12/22/10 07:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

yea some of the later jars i smelled a slight odor after the pressure cook when the steam came out


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OfflineDmiller
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13672415 - 12/22/10 07:14 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Hey I used 1 pint jars instead of the small 1/2 pints... of BRF spawn .. p cook for 40-60 min still valid? going to spawn that stuff to Coco Coir

Edited by Dmiller (12/22/10 07:17 PM)

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13672497 - 12/22/10 07:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Whoops....pint jars are notorious for being slow to fully colonize.

Do you perhaps have a long needle to inject inoculant?

It can work.  I got a whole spaghetti jar to colonize once.

Get half pint jars for PF-Tek!

Get quart jars for grains.

I believe that many here use pints for LCs though.

Good luck,

JD


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Offlinefreeskierpj
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Javadog]
    #13672556 - 12/22/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
Whoops....pint jars are notorious for being slow to fully colonize.

Do you perhaps have a long needle to inject inoculant?

It can work.  I got a whole spaghetti jar to colonize once.

Get half pint jars for PF-Tek!

Get quart jars for grains.

I believe that many here use pints for LCs though.

Good luck,

JD




This and afaik the longer it takes to colonize the more chance for contams. But if you PC'd your BRF jars I would imagine they'll end up fine as long as the spores you use are sterile.


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OfflineDmiller
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Javadog]
    #13672587 - 12/22/10 07:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i tried using rye berries, but after i soaked them they all hatched and smelled so bad I had to evacuate my apartment. so im sticking with BRF.. I will dump 2 syring per every 6 hP jars to speed up the process... what about mixing the strains in the jars?

Edited by Dmiller (12/22/10 07:52 PM)

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Invisiblehamloaf
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13672865 - 12/22/10 08:33 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dmiller said:
i tried using rye berries, but after i soaked them they all hatched and smelled so bad I had to evacuate my apartment. so im sticking with BRF.. I will dump 2 syring per every 6 hP jars to speed up the process... what about mixing the strains in the jars?




Something tells me rye is getting an unfair rap here.
Rye is the easist grain to work with.
How long did you soak your rye for?
You had to have soaked your rye for longer than 3 days to acheive these results.

When using widemouth pint jars for brown rice flour cakes, cut out the vermiculite layer and fill the jars half full of substrate.
Fit jars with standard grain jar lids with injection port and gas exchange filter and sterilize for 90 minutes at 15 psi.
Inoculate the cakes using liquid culture or agar.

If you are using wide mouth pint size jars out of necessitation, go to Ace Hardware.
Ask to speak to the manager and request that they order you the correct half pint wide mouth jars.
I just ordered 2 cases from Ace Hardware for 8.49 each to do my agar work in.


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13672903 - 12/22/10 08:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dmiller said:
i tried using rye berries, but after i soaked them they all hatched and smelled so bad I had to evacuate my apartment. so im sticking with BRF.. I will dump 2 syring per every 6 hP jars to speed up the process... what about mixing the strains in the jars?




Bad, bad idea to use lots of spores during inoculation. 1-2cc per 1/2 pint jar is plenty.

When you inoculate from multispore, the spores have to agree with each other and sorta mate when they meet. This can take extra time if there is alot of variation in those spores. Therefore, the less solution, the better because you're dealing with less overall variation.

Also, keeping your water content controlled is job 1. Dumping 3.5cc's per jar of spores is wasteful and could sog your jars. That's the last thing you want.


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OfflineDmiller
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: afrosheen]
    #13676948 - 12/23/10 07:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I made sure to inoculate the jars with the same strain dude. I had those 5 syringes sitting around for 5 months, so even after a real good shaking the spores were still somewhat clumped together, so I just dumped tons of it into the pint jars. they are incubating at a rather low temp, (60 to 65 degrees) so i imagine it will be a slow process..
I just hope they dont get contams because I only PCOOKED for 40- 60 min. 5 diff strains, so I will post pics as it progresses.

before I sterilized BRF cakes the same way 1/2 pint jars for like 30 min and 100% no contams, so i think they should be ok..


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13677183 - 12/23/10 08:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dmiller said:
I made sure to inoculate the jars with the same strain dude.




I'm guessing you're replying to my multispore comment. By definition, spore prints and syringes are multispore, meaning lots of different genes within the substrain. It's natural diversity.

The reason spore inoculations take longer to grow than liquid culture is because the spores have to germinate and meet their mates, then grow out. The more spores you have in a given area, the greater the genetic diversity, the longer the wait for "mating" and compatibility to kick in.

Not only that but in a single drop of spore solution there are tens of thousands of invisible spores. You add more, and you're wasting the solution while throwing off your moisture balance. Using more than 1-2cc's per jar is wasteful and unwise, full stop. :yesnod:


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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: afrosheen]
    #13677670 - 12/23/10 10:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineDmiller
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Javadog]
    #13681028 - 12/24/10 10:02 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

well i hope it aint screwed up.


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Offlinefreeskierpj
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Dmiller]
    #13682569 - 12/25/10 10:40 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Wait and see :popcorn: that's about all your can do now. Hope it works out for ya!


--------------------

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:amanita2::pinkshroom::supershroom::pinkshroom::amanita2:
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Anything posted on these forums is strictly for fun and completely fictional.

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Offlineroaddog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: afrosheen]
    #13682614 - 12/25/10 10:59 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Quote:

Dmiller said:
I made sure to inoculate the jars with the same strain dude.




I'm guessing you're replying to my multispore comment. By definition, spore prints and syringes are multispore, meaning lots of different genes within the substrain. It's natural diversity.

The reason spore inoculations take longer to grow than liquid culture is because the spores have to germinate and meet their mates, then grow out. The more spores you have in a given area, the greater the genetic diversity, the longer the wait for "mating" and compatibility to kick in.

Not only that but in a single drop of spore solution there are tens of thousands of invisible spores. You add more, and you're wasting the solution while throwing off your moisture balance. Using more than 1-2cc's per jar is wasteful and unwise, full stop. :yesnod:



I use a hell of alot more than that. I do 3 jars per syringe. thats 4 cc per jar. I spore the shit out of my jars. grain or pf. I wrote a journal on this very subject. Check out Road dogs piss off the goo roos 12 day grow log. I have never bought a syringe from a vendor, that was even 1/4 as dark as I make mine. Sometimes my syringes, almost glow purple when I hold them to the light, But I make 4 syringes off of 1 dark print. Its just the way I do it, But I do make my jars a little dryer than usual, to compensate for the extra water in the syringes. Hell If Im using Lc, I lc the shit out of my jars too.

Edited by roaddog (12/25/10 11:10 AM)

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: roaddog]
    #13683977 - 12/25/10 06:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

roaddog said:
Quote:

afrosheen said:
Quote:

Dmiller said:
I made sure to inoculate the jars with the same strain dude.




I'm guessing you're replying to my multispore comment. By definition, spore prints and syringes are multispore, meaning lots of different genes within the substrain. It's natural diversity.

The reason spore inoculations take longer to grow than liquid culture is because the spores have to germinate and meet their mates, then grow out. The more spores you have in a given area, the greater the genetic diversity, the longer the wait for "mating" and compatibility to kick in.

Not only that but in a single drop of spore solution there are tens of thousands of invisible spores. You add more, and you're wasting the solution while throwing off your moisture balance. Using more than 1-2cc's per jar is wasteful and unwise, full stop. :yesnod:



I use a hell of alot more than that. I do 3 jars per syringe. thats 4 cc per jar. I spore the shit out of my jars. grain or pf. I wrote a journal on this very subject. Check out Road dogs piss off the goo roos 12 day grow log. I have never bought a syringe from a vendor, that was even 1/4 as dark as I make mine. Sometimes my syringes, almost glow purple when I hold them to the light, But I make 4 syringes off of 1 dark print. Its just the way I do it, But I do make my jars a little dryer than usual, to compensate for the extra water in the syringes. Hell If Im using Lc, I lc the shit out of my jars too.




Wow RD, this is something that seems fairly well settled around here....

LC are for drenching substrates, if desired,

but spores are wasted if used in large amounts, certainly in grain
jars where shaking can spread initial growth. (maybe for BRF cakes
more inoculant simply spreads around more then less inoculant).

I think that this might involve the effect of introducing a large
number of competing "families" of growth on the same sub which can
slow overall growth while this interaction is settled.

I need to let the more knowledgeable growers comment further.

No worries either way.

Take care,

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org

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Offlineroaddog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Javadog]
    #13684208 - 12/25/10 07:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
Quote:

roaddog said:
Quote:

afrosheen said:
Quote:

Dmiller said:
I made sure to inoculate the jars with the same strain dude.




I'm guessing you're replying to my multispore comment. By definition, spore prints and syringes are multispore, meaning lots of different genes within the substrain. It's natural diversity.

The reason spore inoculations take longer to grow than liquid culture is because the spores have to germinate and meet their mates, then grow out. The more spores you have in a given area, the greater the genetic diversity, the longer the wait for "mating" and compatibility to kick in.

Not only that but in a single drop of spore solution there are tens of thousands of invisible spores. You add more, and you're wasting the solution while throwing off your moisture balance. Using more than 1-2cc's per jar is wasteful and unwise, full stop. :yesnod:



I use a hell of alot more than that. I do 3 jars per syringe. thats 4 cc per jar. I spore the shit out of my jars. grain or pf. I wrote a journal on this very subject. Check out Road dogs piss off the goo roos 12 day grow log. I have never bought a syringe from a vendor, that was even 1/4 as dark as I make mine. Sometimes my syringes, almost glow purple when I hold them to the light, But I make 4 syringes off of 1 dark print. Its just the way I do it, But I do make my jars a little dryer than usual, to compensate for the extra water in the syringes. Hell If Im using Lc, I lc the shit out of my jars too.




Wow RD, this is something that seems fairly well settled around here....

LC are for drenching substrates, if desired,

but spores are wasted if used in large amounts, certainly in grain
jars where shaking can spread initial growth. (maybe for BRF cakes
more inoculant simply spreads around more then less inoculant).

I think that this might involve the effect of introducing a large
number of competing "families" of growth on the same sub which can
slow overall growth while this interaction is settled.

I need to let the more knowledgeable growers comment further.

No worries either way.

Take care,

JD


  Ya you are probably right about the competing families. Im sorry If i said the wrong thing.The reason I did it was to grow jars really fast.And they seemed to do just that, even with competing families. I liked to put enough inoculate in my PF jars, that it literally would drip down in the bottom, and that whole spot would get fuzzy, shortly after first signs of growth. I would like to add, I really dont use spores anymore, I use LC.  I do take my cloned Lc, and draw off a little water, so its a little thicker, before I use it to inoculate.I also Inoculate 4 cc in each grain jar. I guess that would be a totally different thing though. I would like to know more about competing families, dose this effect yield? In other words, would you expect for my pf jars to yield less because of the high spore count. Is the effects of competing families, slow growth, low yields, or both? The reason I ask is I really have found that the thinner my spores, the slower starts I get. Its quite possible that I am wrong, It happens often enough, you can ask my wife,lol. any ideas?

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: roaddog]
    #13684277 - 12/25/10 07:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

On this competition affecting yield, I cannot say.  This is an interesting question.

You are using LC now.  We are on the same page really.

The only thing that keeps me from completely hosing my substrates with
LC is moisture balance.  I love nothing more than the speed with which
an LC drenched ;0) BRF cake can get to 100%  I do not think that I will
do a MS spore BRF cake again....

I get a bit more nervous when it comes to grain bags....esp larger grain bags.
I have seen too many problems with bacterial contams in these.  Too many
success to stop using them, but enough to make me cautious.
(and I love having a gallon of spawn to work with!)

Take care,

JD


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Offlineroaddog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: Javadog]
    #13684324 - 12/25/10 08:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
On this competition affecting yield, I cannot say.  This is an interesting question.

You are using LC now.  We are on the same page really.

The only thing that keeps me from completely hosing my substrates with
LC is moisture balance.  I love nothing more than the speed with which
an LC drenched ;0) BRF cake can get to 100%  I do not think that I will
do a MS spore BRF cake again....

I get a bit more nervous when it comes to grain bags....esp larger grain bags.
I have seen too many problems with bacterial contams in these.  Too many
success to stop using them, but enough to make me cautious.
(and I love having a gallon of spawn to work with!)

Take care,

JD



yes I agree about the grain bags. They dont like to be drenched the same way a jar dose.I try to really get grains dry, before sealing the bags. Ill leave them an extra 20 minutes on the drying screen.  I look at it this way I can always add more water by using LC. But I cant take water away once its in their. If I end up with a bag of grain, that has water standing in the bottom, I can almost predict its future. Its going in the compost pit. I have a hell of a compost pit by the way.

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: 2 Problems! [Re: roaddog]
    #13684449 - 12/25/10 08:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You can definitely make a point of having a substrate a bit dry to allow
a more inoculant to be used without throwing off (in fact, "throwing on")
the moisture balance.

Good luck,

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org

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