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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Synthetic filter disk question
#13654142 - 12/18/10 11:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Instead of taking the whole filter and placing it between the lid and the ring can one simply cut it into small squares and attach them to the lid with silicone like everybody does with tyvek?
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13654145 - 12/18/10 11:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Base Icks]
#13654208 - 12/18/10 11:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh hell yeah, why are there so few posts about such an amazing thing . Things have been sucking right now, looooong story but for this grow i ended up getting my lids from a friend who wanted me to test them out way back when, unfortunately he made filter holes that are more than half an inch in diameter and put the tyvek filters on the bottom of the lid(not sure if that matters tho). several of my jars contaminated and im thinking it may have something to do with the filters. Did you notice a big difference once you switched to filter disks?
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13654228 - 12/19/10 12:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I had a bit of a fuck up my self with lids. I decided to use "cosmetic wedges" for injection port/ GE holes. Looooong story short, if I ever see another one of them again its not going to be pretty.
Anyways, so far so good with the fd's, cant get much better than that can ya?
1/2" is really big for a hole, I would expect the grains to dry out quickly that way. Also, when using tyvek, its a good idea to use a layer on top and bottom of the lid to prevent contaminants wick though it.
On a lighter note, some guys around here are getting craft felt and using it as FD replacement. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than the disks from what I gather, an works just the same. Apparently its made out of the same stuff as polyfill, its just been like "ironed" flat in the manufacturing process.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Base Icks]
#13654261 - 12/19/10 12:11 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmmm, where can I get this stuff, I want to test it out. For that matter is there anywhere to get FD for cheap? I always use double layers of tyvek for LCs but was worried that it wouldn't work for grain, thats great news. Surprisingly the grains don't look that dried out, just 2 of 5 jars contaminated.
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13654288 - 12/19/10 12:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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TBH man I'm not sure where to get it. I'm in the UK and I'm assuming your in the states.
I think that the big craft stores would have it. I think one is called Michael's.
Barakanaten . He should be able to help ya out.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Base Icks]
#13654338 - 12/19/10 12:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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PM sent in hopes of getting detailed advice, forgot you lived in the UK. A shire has to be trippy as it gets, man im lucky if I can find a park around here. Good info, keep on
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13655149 - 12/19/10 08:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wise Toad said: Instead of taking the whole filter and placing it between the lid and the ring can one simply cut it into small squares and attach them to the lid with silicone like everybody does with tyvek?
This is a very bad idea.
The synthetic filter disks have an extremely small micron size pore structure and you won't get sufficient gas exchange through small pieces. You're better to get new lids and drill four 1/8" holes in each, and then use the filter over the top of that. This way, the entire filter can exchange gasses instead of just a small part.
In addition, there's no way to clean the bottom of a filter that's glued down to a lid, and this is the side exposed to the grains.
Filters always should go above the lids, not below where they're exposed to the grains when you shake. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13655158 - 12/19/10 08:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll add to that saying that I have 4 1/8" holes under my fd peices on my lids.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Base Icks]
#13656824 - 12/19/10 04:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks RR. So Base can I just drill 4 1/8" holes close together and use one cutting of FD to cover it all, at least thats what i see in your pic. I could do it easily enough. I have several boxes of replacement lids so Im set on that, right now im going to make a few lids with paint suit tyvek on top and bottom. To give you an idea of the quality of these lids I got(if there is any)
  Edit: Im not sure exactly what he used as sealant, doesn't look like RTV silicone to me, Im not sure if that would be a problem tho
Edited by Wise Toad (12/19/10 04:04 PM)
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13656908 - 12/19/10 04:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Pretty fuzzy man.
And yeah, I did the 4 holes really close, 3mm holes 3mm apart or so.
And rtv its necessary. Any pure silicone will work just fine.
Also rtv comes if different colors, and clear.
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Shaggy Shaman
Divine Conduit


Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 348
Loc: United States
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13657437 - 12/19/10 05:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think what RR was trying to explain is that you need the total surface area of a whole disc to supply the GE for the 4 small holes. Putting the 4 holes close together and covering them with a small cutting will not supply the same amount of micropore surface area to those 4 holes.
Imagine the disc as a membrane over an air pocket, which is over the metal lid with the holes. The holes can supply to the air pocket easily, but the membrane is a bottleneck. Cutting the small piece and gluing it to the lid will do 2 things. It eliminates the air pocket completely, and limits the 4 holes to a much smaller surface area of pores.
I think this is what he meant, anyways.
-------------------- "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." — Tom Robbins “The true value of a human being can be found in the degree to which he has attained liberation from the self" -- Albert Einstein
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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I think so too, but they are working fine for me. 
It might not be the most ideal, but once again it works.
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Shot.In.Orbit
Stranger Danger!


Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 255
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13657591 - 12/19/10 06:18 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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So based on what I read, a 1/2" hole will work for SFDs.
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Shot.In.Orbit
Stranger Danger!


Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 255
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13657711 - 12/19/10 06:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well according to that write up 1/2 inch holes work...
I have not tried this tek yet. but I am going to here soon I just placed a order for SFD's not to long ago. So I guess I will find out...
On the plus side, I have seen a few people here with grain jar lids like these and they have obviously worked for them so I don't see why they cannot work for us.
If it bothers you... I may do it too when I get mine... Cut the holes out to 3/4 of an inch instead of 1/2 Inch to allow for more G.E.
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Ill experiment, I just wanted to get an idea of what the parameters of "what works" are because SFDs are a bit on the expensive side, i didn't plan to order them right away considering I have spent $150+ on this hobby in the last month, of course it was completely worth it tho
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Shot.In.Orbit
Stranger Danger!


Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 255
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13657749 - 12/19/10 06:45 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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The cheapest I have found is http://www.themadseason.com/ or http://everythingmushrooms.com/shop/
are you planing on using these lids for LC or Grain?
And do you plan on using plastic or the aluminum lids that come with the jars ?
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Wise Toad


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 2,690
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Grain initially but sooner or later I may try them on LC. Iv been steering towards Grain LCs lately and just got the majority of my materials together(you won't believe what I had to go through to get some 60cc syringes) only thing I still need is some extra syringe caps to make some of Doc. T's Ultimate GLC lids. My lids are aluminum, it will adapt fine right? Damn only $12, I was looking on myco supply a while back and remember the price was ridiculous.
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Shot.In.Orbit
Stranger Danger!


Registered: 11/20/10
Posts: 255
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Re: Synthetic filter disk question [Re: Wise Toad]
#13658008 - 12/19/10 07:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just recently (about a week and a half ago?) made one of these for LC http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=255&Number=7492975&fpart=&PHPSESSID=
And used Light Malt Extract x Dextrose Liquid Culture Recipe. And I will tell you this. It is growing like crazy. So if you ever get a hunch to make LC I would recommend these lids because I have had good success with them. I just inoculated a PF jar with my LC and it is contam free as well... Was really simple. I honestly am pissed off at myself because It was more simple than the PF Tek... these LC Lids are almost Idiot proof... and I am glad I tried them. The Whatman Syringe Filters are a bit expensive (I got my free from work so lucky me right?) But the madseason has them for only $2.30? per filter disc? (they are not Whatmans but they are just as good as Whatmans but less expensive... It is like getting a prescription for Motrin 800... but getting the Generic of Ibuprofen just as good... just not the name brand I only got Whatman's because they were free for me to grab a couple at work.)
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