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Offlineupupup
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Registered: 08/25/01
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What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114?
    #1360934 - 03/09/03 05:57 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.policyalmanac.org/world/archive/hgop_iraq_resolution.shtml

As I read it the UN still has the final say.....


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: upupup]
    #1361046 - 03/09/03 06:29 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

H.J. Res 114 was FAPP the congressional declaration of war against Iraq as required by the US constitution, so the war actually started 6 months ago. So much for the myth that we cant control Bush via the congress; unfortunately, the electoral majority (aka "we the people") have chosen to do the opposite.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1361109 - 03/09/03 06:52 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There has never been a formal declaration of war against Iraq.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Evolving]
    #1361200 - 03/09/03 07:34 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

There has never been a formal declaration of war against Iraq.




Yes and no. There was never a resolution expressly declaring war against Iraq; but HJR 114 was effectively the declaration of war nonetheless.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (03/09/03 07:35 PM)


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1361210 - 03/09/03 07:42 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Its already been agreed that the decloration of war made by Bush senior has never been resolved so we are still at war with Iraq after all this time..

This was debated at the verry beginning when Bush Jr. first began talking about invaiding Iraq.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1361218 - 03/09/03 07:49 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

The U.S. has not had an actual declaration of war, in accordance with the Constitution since WWII. Although we may realistically consider military actions in Korea, Viet Nam and various other places as wars, in fact and by the letter of the law of the U.S. these are not declared wars.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1361221 - 03/09/03 07:50 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Its already been agreed that the decloration of war made by Bush senior has never been resolved so we are still at war with Iraq after all this time..




The Korean War never ended either; we have been at war with N. Korea for 53 years. And BTW, there was a formal declaration of war against Iraq in 1990. "Authorization to use armed force" is understood and accepted as a declaration of war, however incorrectly.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (03/09/03 08:11 PM)


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Offlineupupup
guardian

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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: upupup]
    #1367008 - 03/11/03 07:36 PM (13 years, 8 months ago)

One of my US senators sent me this in a recent email....

"Protecting America's national security is the most important
responsibility facing Congress and the Administration. Congress acted on that responsibility last October by passing House Joint Resolution 114. Contrary to popular belief, H.J. Res. 114 did not give the President the power to go to war. It was not a congressional declaration of war contemplated within the constitution. Rather, the resolution expresses support for the President's efforts to strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance, and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.

Furthermore, the resolution enhanced the role of the N.
President Bush was seriously considering military action against Iraq without going to the UN at all. Passage of the congressional resolution forced the President to seek UN approval."


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Anonymous

Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1367939 - 03/12/03 05:33 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Korean War never ended either; we have been at war with N. Korea for 53 years. And BTW, there was a formal declaration of war against Iraq in 1990. "Authorization to use armed force" is understood and accepted as a declaration of war, however incorrectly.



No, no, and no. You're wrong on all accounts, please do your homework.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1367965 - 03/12/03 05:43 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Annapurna1 writes:

The Korean War never ended either; we have been at war with N. Korea for 53 years.

Annapurna1 is technically correct this time -- the armistice can be interpreted that way, if one wants to split hairs. Neither side surrendered to the other in the Korean war; instead an armistice was signed.

An armistice is really nothing more than an extended ceasefire. If either side breaks the terms of the ceasefire, hostilities may resume with no new declaration of war.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Phred]
    #1367985 - 03/12/03 05:49 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There never was a declaration of war. There cannot be a new declaration of war, a resumed declaration of war, and we are not still in a war that never existed.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1368001 - 03/12/03 05:56 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

There never was a declaration of war. There cannot be a new declaration of war, a resumed declaration of war, and we are not still in a war that never existed.

Ah. There's certainly that way of looking at it as well.

You are correct that the Korean War was technically speaking a UN "police action" rather than a war. That's the problem with trying to put too fine a point on various definitions concerning war. The Viet Nam war wasn't really a war, either. Of course, those who had the misfortune of being there weren't overly concerned with legal niceties.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Phred]
    #1368005 - 03/12/03 05:59 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Well I wouldn't be arguing this at all if Annapurna1 hadn't insisted that the Gulf War was an official war.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: What did congress authorize in H.J. Res. 114? [Re: Anonymous]
    #1368046 - 03/12/03 06:25 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Understood. And I don't say I disagree with you.

It all depends on how one defines "war", doesn't it? If one country invades another, to my mind it is war even if the invader never gets around to sending a telegram to the victim saying, "Oh, by the way, I hereby officially declare war on you."

pinky


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