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InvisibledeCypher
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Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil
    #13583892 - 12/04/10 11:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

link

This book is an account of supposed possessions due to demonic beings... understandably it's written according to the bias of a Catholic priest, but how does one reconcile it with non-Christian spiritual viewpoints?  :pipesmoke:


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: deCypher]
    #13584846 - 12/05/10 08:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Did you read it? I'd like to hear what you think... Don't have time to read the whole thing myself. I think the Christian POV is just one way to talk about this stuff... we were calling these demons "hyperdimensional predators" in the other thread. I'm still on the fence as to how external these things are to ourselves anyway... A few nights ago I had a dream I was bloodily murdering someone.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13585156 - 12/05/10 10:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah I've read it... definitely worthwhile IMO.  I think I believe that hyperdimensional predators like you say exist outside of the Christian paradigm, but the cases mentioned in the book show a distinct fear and hatred towards Jesus rather than any other avatar or spiritual path... and apparently accepting Jesus into your heart is the only way to remove these metaphysical parasites.  :strokebeard:

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts if you get the chance to skim through it!

Some fascinating quotes:

Quote:

From the moment the exorcist enters the room, a peculiar feeling seems to hang in the very air. From that moment in any genuine exorcism and onward through its duration, everyone in the room is aware of some alien Presence. This indubitable sign of possession is as unexplainable and unmistakable as it is inescapable. All the signs of possession, however blatant or grotesque, however subtle or debatable, seem both to pale before and to be marshaled in the face of this Presence.

There is no sure physical trace of the Presence, but everyone feels it. You have to experience it to know it; you cannot locate it spatially- beside or above or within the possessed, or over in the corner or under the bed or hovering in midair.

In one sense, the Presence is nowhere, and this magnifies the terror, because there is a presence, an other present. Not a "he" or a "she" or an "it." Sometimes, you think that what is present is singular, sometimes plural. When it speaks, as the exorcism goes on, it will sometimes refer to itself as "I" and sometimes as "we," will use "my" and "our."

Invisible and intangible, the Presence claws at the humanness of those gathered in the room. You can exercise logic and expel any mental image of it. You can say to yourself: "I am only imagining this. Careful! Don't panic!" And there may be a momentary relief. But then, after a time lag of bare seconds, the Presence returns as an inaudible hiss in the brain, as a wordless threat to the self you are. Its name and essence seem to be compounded of threat, to be only and intensely baleful, concentratedly intent on hate for hate's sake and on destruction for destruction's sake. In the early stages of an exorcism, the evil spirit will make every attempt to "hide behind" the possessed, so to speak-to appear to be one and the same person and personality with its victim. This is the Pretense.

The first task of the priest is to break that Pretense, to force the spirit to reveal itself openly as separate from the possessed-and to name itself, for all possessing spirits are called by a name that generally (though not always) has to do with the way that spirit works on its victim.

As the exorcist sets about his task, the evil spirit may remain silent altogether; or it may speak with the voice of the possessed, and use past experiences and recollections of the possessed. This is often done skillfully, using details no one but the possessed could know. It can be very disarming, even pitiful. It can make everyone, including the priest, feel that it is the priest who is the villain, subjecting an innocent person to terrible rigors. Even the mannerisms and characteristics of the possessed are used by the spirit as its own camouflage.

Sometimes the exorcist cannot shatter the Pretense for days. But until he does, he cannot bring matters to a head. If he fails to shatter it at all, he has lost. Perhaps another exorcist replacing him will succeed. But he himself has been beaten. Every exorcist learns during Pretense that he is dealing with some force or power that is at times intensely cunning, sometimes supremely intelligent, and at other times capable of crass stupidity (which makes one wonder further about the problem of singular or plural); and it is both highly dangerous and terribly vulnerable.

Oddly, while this spirit or power or force knows some of the most secret and intimate details of the lives of everyone in the room, at the same time it also displays gaps in knowledge of things that may be happening at any given moment of the present. But the priest must not be lulled by small victories or take chances on hoped-for stupidities. He must be ready to have his own sins and blunders and weaknesses put into his mind or shouted in ugliness for all to hear. He must not make excuses for his past, or wither as even his loveliest memories are fingered by ultimate filth and contempt; he must not be sidetracked in any way from his primary intention of freeing the possessed person before him. And he must at all costs avoid trading abuse or getting into any logical arguments with the possessed. The temptation to do so is more frequent than one might think, and must be regarded as a potentially fatal trap that can shatter not only the exorcism, but quite literally shatter the exorcist as well.

Accordingly, as the Pretense begins to break down, the behavior of the possessed usually increases in violence and repulsiveness. It is as though an invisible manhole opens, and out of it pours the unmention-ably inhuman and the humanly unacceptable. There is a stream of filth and unrestrained abuse, accompanied often by physical violence, writhing, gnashing of teeth, jumping around, sometimes physical attacks on the exorcist.

A new hallmark of the proceedings enters as the Breakpoint nears, and ushers in one of the more subtle sufferings the exorcist must undergo: confusion. Complete and dreadful confusion. Rare is the exorcist who does not falter here for at least a moment, enmeshed in the peculiar pain of apparent contradiction of all sense.

His ears seem to smell foul words. His eyes seem to hear offensive sounds and obscene screams. His nose seems to taste a high-decibel cacophony. Each sense seems to be recording what another sense should be recording. Each nerve and sinew of onlookers and participants becomes rigid as they strive for control. Panic-the fear of being dissolved into insanity-runs in quick jabs through everyone there. All present experience this increasingly violent and confusing assault. But the exorcist is the one who rides the storm. He is the direct target of it all.

The Breakpoint is reached at that moment when the Pretense has finally collapsed altogether. The voice of the possessed is no longer used by the spirit, though the new, strange voice may or may not issue from the mouth of the victim. In Thomas Wu's
case, the alien voice did come from the possessed's mouth; and that was why the police captain was so startled. The sound produced is often not even remotely like any human sound.

At the Breakpoint, for the first time, the spirit speaks of the possessed in the third
person, as a separate being. For the first time, the possessing spirit acts personally and speaks of "I" or "we," usually interchangeably, and of "my" and "our" or "mine" and "ours."

Another very frequent sign that the Breakpoint has been reached is the appearance of what Father Conor called the Voice. The Voice is an inordinately disturbing and humanly distressing babel. The first few syllables seem to be those of some word pronounced slowly and thickly-somewhat like a tape recording played at a subnormal speed. You are just straining to pick up the word and a layer of cold fear has already gripped you-you know this sound is alien. But your concentration is shattered and frustrated by an immediate gamut of echoes, of tiny, prickly voices echoing each syllable, screaming it, whispering it, laughing it, sneering it, groaning it, following it. They all hit your ear, while the alien voice is going on unhurriedly to the next syllable, which you then try to catch, while guessing at the first one you lost. By then, the tiny, jabbing voices have caught up with that second syllable; and the voice has proceeded to the third syllable; and so on. If the exorcism is to proceed, the Voice must be silenced. It takes an enormous effort of will on the part of the exorcist, in direct confrontation with the alien will of evil, to silence the Voice. The priest must get himself under control and challenge the spirit first to silence and then to identify itself intelligibly.

As in all things to do with Exorcism of Evil Spirit, the priest makes this challenge with his own will, but always in the name and by the authority of Jesus and his Church. To do so in his own name or by some fancied authority of his own would be to invite personal disaster. Merely human power unadorned and without aid cannot cope with the preternatural.




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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlinesolstice
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #13585193 - 12/05/10 10:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That's pretty fucked up as well as interesting. Wish I had the time to read that book... :frown:


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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: deCypher]
    #13585506 - 12/05/10 12:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
link

This book is an account of supposed possessions due to demonic beings... understandably it's written according to the bias of a Catholic priest, but how does one reconcile it with non-Christian spiritual viewpoints?  :pipesmoke:




I've recommended this book for years. Before Martin died, he passed his mantle to the now late psychiatrist-author, M. Scott Peck (The Road Less Travelled, People of the Lie, Glimpses of the Devil).
It is interesting how Peck, a psychiatrist first wrote of evil in psychiatric language in The People of the Lie, which he identified in the old nomenclature of "ambulatory schizophrenia," which became known as Borderline Personality Disorder. Having been married to a BPD woman for a dozen years, and somehow being a BPD magnet, both personally and professionally (the bane of psychotherapists), I am something of an authority (if an unpublished authority). But, as bad as BPD presents itself (Glenn Close in the film 'Fatal Attraction,' Diane Keaton in 'Looking for Mr. Goodbar,' or Angelina Jolie in 'Girl Interrupted'), Peck took leave of the materialistic medical model and became an exorcist in the western spiritual tradition. 

The book, The Exorcist, and the subsequent film, were based on Malachi Martin's book, which remains for me today the scariest book I've ever read, if not necessarily the grisliest. I mean, one can read of jeffrey Dahmer's necrophagia and altar of victims' skulls which will evoke sheer horror (terror+disgust=horror), but it lacks the frightening metaphysical implications that Martin's book suggests. The implications go beyond the 'autonomous complexes' of Jungian fare, which are psychic appendages, along the line of multiple personalities. With Martin, one gets the distinctively medieval notion that we live in a multidimensional universe of interpenetrating realities, just as we all live and move, interpenetrated by radio, TV, microwave transmissions that we are unable to perceive with our human nervous systems, but are the live communications of people in distant places, discernible by electronics. Analogously, some people, under certain conditions, are able to attract, perceive and voice the communications of disincarnate entities, or at least, entities that are not able to manifest in their own bodies, but obsess or possess human bodies. And, even before obsessions or possessions occur, there are paranormal signatures of the presence of such entities: physical objects move, or fly, cold spots, putrid smells, voices, shadows, ectoplasmic sensations of being touched, lain upon, bitten (sometimes with fang marks and saliva!), and other phenomena (not all of these are taken from Martin's book).

Other cultures also have their versions of shapeshifters, sometimes into animals like wolves, but also into bats like vampyres in European culture. South and Central Americas have their versions, Australian Aborigine people have theirs, African tribal societies have theirs. These things have probably not developed like myths, either by dispersion of contact between cultures, or independently from archetypal psychic contents, but quite possibly from the paranormal experiences of peoples the world over. If the lower astral planes, which ostensibly contain demons (like the 'shades' who drag evil people to 'Hell' in the film 'Ghost') can sometimes interface with our physical plane (I have seen small scurrying, oval gray shapes in houses for many years. Once my ex-wife and our sheep dog responded to one!), I can appreciate the segregation of planes of being, just as I can appreciate the great distances between stars and their planets. Films like 'Independence Day,' 'War of the Worlds,' and every other space invader story illustrate this point. Outer space is one potential menace, but inner space is what Malachi Martin's book points to. Just like the animated Dr. Quantum inserting his 3rd dimensional finger into 2-dimensional Flatland, to be experienced from within the bodies of the Flatlanders (see YouTube for Dr. Quantum), demons don't come from anywhere. Their dimensions exist to our consciousness and to our senses at times, yet they seem to be atemporal and non-spatial, relative to our existence in 3 spatial and 1 temporal dimension.

But enough of this ramble. I remain intrigued. I have been in communication of late with an amateur ceremonial magician who attempts to evoke entities to visible appearance in a Triangle of the Art, from within the safety of a magick circle. This was a path I tread briefly when I was 19 years old, but climbing up the Qabalistic Tree of Life, with the help of Entheogens pulled me up. Now, I find the gravitational pull of magick, if only to supply evidence that proves the truth of such phenomena in our world of duality and form.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #13586839 - 12/05/10 05:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Kinda on topic (sorry decypher)

Hey Markos,

Ever read this one-


This was big at my parents church back in the day.  Chick says she married the devil, astral projected, changed a bunny into a cat and back, and oh yeah...werewolves are real.  Some people believe her.

I know I did when I was 13. :smile:


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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: Cups]
    #13586863 - 12/05/10 06:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How about now that you're 15?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCups
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: Icelander]
    #13586957 - 12/05/10 06:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, not so much.  Helluva story though.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: Cups]
    #13587096 - 12/05/10 06:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I was raised fundamentalist Baptist.  I heard a ton of crazy stories and had to hang out with a ton of, imo, really mentally ill people. That includes my dad unfortunately.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: Icelander]
    #13587203 - 12/05/10 07:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What makes Baptists so bad?


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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13587240 - 12/05/10 07:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

There are others, I just grew up with the Baptists so I know what goes on there from first hand experience and not necessarily all Baptists but a lot.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: Icelander]
    #13587279 - 12/05/10 07:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

In some sense you have to give the Baptists props for adhering to the Bible literally come hell or high water... in another sense you just have to facepalm at their inability to understand simple metaphors.  I have many Fundie Baptist relatives and it's always hysterical to engage them in any kind of metaphysical argument.

Awesome post BTW, Markos.


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Re: Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13587387 - 12/05/10 07:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I was raised fundamentalist Baptist.  I heard a ton of crazy stories and had to hang out with a ton of, imo, really mentally ill people. That includes my dad unfortunately.



Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
What makes Baptists so bad?




Fanaticism in most cases

i can relate icelander, sadly:lol: Living with southern baptist who are always trying to save me gets old, even if they are only trying to 'help'


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